One tweak that will change alot

[Auss 208]

On the OGN server we have lowered the Enemy AI precision and Enemy skill in an attempt to sustain firefights, It seems to work quite well and stop those 1st shot kills from AI. I know its not really the answer but it does increase close combat fire fights

[[asa]oden 0]

good testsetup KeyCat, very usable to test and realize how useless smokegrenades still are

I use those for AI in my missions each time they get attacked - obviously only players will curse that smoke

[Second 0]

secound, all to respect plz try not to chase wind, i apologize for not being clear, i mainly referring not about the "situation", but for the "basic" of how the AIs work and how it affect any changes being given that unless BI add some more things to improve how they "see" and "hear" there is little can be done on user side without heavily script use, now that i am not pro on AI and that most things are based on user comment, they all tells me that AI dont have proper LOS that could be used as a steping stone for the tweak(or atless i think)

p.s. on the other hand, since ArmA and VBS2 AI are so modable, that i heard rumors says that mil in the states are working with a university(forget which, and dunno if BIA part of it) to creat a more advance AI system for VBS2, that i think we should beable to script a more decent AI ourselfs, but it would take time and a hell lot of work

Sorry if i sounded to be rude, i didn't mean that... I was only curious.

Problem with FSMs (as well as scripts) is that, or atleast i assume that this stands with FSMs too, hardcoded AI interferes with them. Basically only thing that editor can boost with individual AI's behaviour/way of doing things is 'take cover'-method. Then there are disableai-commands ofcourse. But lots is up to what editor wants to change, some parts are better to be left as they are.

Some things usually demands lots of "safety"-mechanicms (to counter hardcoded AI-methods), which makes script/FSM heavy (lots of thinking and testing) and complex.

One example of this was experiment i made with "urban warfare booster"-script, it interfered only groups and it's individual AI's movement routines: issued individual soldiers to check alleys streets (and try to keep their profile hidden by building corners, when doing the check) as others were waiting that alley to be checked. Worked quite well in labratory conditions, but when script was tossed to actual combatzone with lots of elements and things to react, it failed to do anything as i had to counter some improtant combat related-areas of AI's so that they would actually do the thing asked by script.

Example of another nature is defend on hill script i made. It just calculates individual AI's position relatively to it's killzone (it can see killzone so that there is not groundmaterial aka soil in between), it marks that position to "memory" and when group is given signal to move in to positions, individual AIs run to those positions which they are "assigned". Works like dream and is effective as what. But what makes it effective and working is that mission designer desides when that script is used. It could be made "hardcoded", but then there would arise lots of new problems, which are now to be resolved.

There are easy and effective ways of boosting something but something maybe would be better to leave untouched. I'd say that more closely thing is related to combat, then more difficult it is to change and still keep AI workable and effective. It's easy to write "talk crap with your friend, when your in safe mode"-script, but hard to do "tweak performace in some task and yet keep overall combatskills of ai functionable"-script. Overall there are quite few scripts and FSM, that actally affects to AI and how it does things better than before (in fact i can't figure out any). I would quess that some others than me have noticed same thing: AI is easy to break but hard to boost/tweak.

But i'd quess, there are ways to edit engage-routine to somewhat what Ezekiel said, and atleast seems that it can be done with relatively easy... Or then not... Depend of one script command, which seems to be not yet implemented: movetarget is the name of that command.

But attention everyone: Don't take too seriously what i write. I'm only amateur comparing to some geniuses in these forums, kinda old-and-stiff type of scripter as i haven't even tried to write functions and only looked at FSMs (naah. those won't do anybetter than old and reliable scripts )... Not very good in math, mildly stupid and so on... So if some of you BIG scripters read this and deside to critizice it, i have only one request: Please don't crush my slowly growing boldness of "i know things"... Atleast complitely

Now exuse me. I go back to write my recon script to give AI proper ways/methods in conducting recon. Intresting to see how that ends up.

[4 IN 1 0]

lol i think if you could get hold on some "real deal" scripters and give them the framework of your scripts then there might be rooms for improvements, giving "ideas" isnt a bad idea after all

anyway like always said, the base of the AIs in the game isnt all that bad, but it do needs a lots of "help" to get them work

[KeyCat 131]

Sorry for my late reply but I haven't had much time for more testing the past days...

Well why do you test that kind flagpole marker things which might not show real results and ways AI works ?

@ Second: Well, that flagpole thing was just a simple way to get may point across and to visualize what infact is the enemi AI's percieved knowledge about your location when you fire a shot (LOS/no LOS). But you have a point! It is important to look a the whole picture as well when testing AI etc. but my personal opinion regarding this topic still stands.

And for the "crushing thing" don't worry! I'm not a AI/SQS/SQF/FSM/whatever expert myself, just an amateur like most others around here that likes ArmA... However, I do try to give input if I bump into something that is wierd or wrong (as well as my personal point of view) in hope that BIS may eventually use parts of it to make a great game/sim even better!

So again, don't worry. IMO everyone's opinion count's equal as long as it's written in an adult and constructive way!

Quote[/b] ]

good testsetup KeyCat, very usable to test and realize how useless smokegrenades still are I use those for AI in my missions each time they get attacked - obviously only players will curse that smoke

Agree, thats another thing I really hope BIS will fix. Smoke grenades are completely useless against AI and as you say it's been thats since OFP 1.xx (unless you used JAM smoke grenades or similar).

/KC

[4 IN 1 0]

but then, i wish BI fix the bridge crossing thing first, it makes a shit lots of inf tactic not working

[KJAM 0]

On the OGN server we have lowered the Enemy AI precision and Enemy skill in an attempt to sustain firefights, It seems to work quite well and stop those 1st shot kills from AI. I know its not really the answer but it does increase close combat fire fights

How exactly did you do that? I might pass the details on to my Clan Leader so it'd be helpful to know.

[stryker555 0]

On the OGN server we have lowered the Enemy AI precision and Enemy skill in an attempt to sustain firefights, It seems to work quite well and stop those 1st shot kills from AI. I know its not really the answer but it does increase close combat fire fights

Now thats what im talking about. The current enemy AI precision is too high. You guys at OGN it seems have made the Arma AI accuracy more like OFP AI accuracy albeit I have never played in you guys server but I can already imagine the longer close combat battles. OFP AI werent slouches either as a lot of time I had to dio over missions because of one shot kills but those were occasional and not too regular.

In saying that I played some furious and vicious but very fun coop games Sunday and man the AI werent pretty at all, I surprised a machine gunner and he did something I that totally shocked me, the bugger started to go to prone position and before he hit the ground he started firing with pin point accuracy, in other words the AI used an exploit on me lol.

[KeyCat 131]

How exactly did you do that? I might pass the details on to my Clan Leader so it'd be helpful to know.

Open xxxxx.ArmAProfile on the server in notepad and tweak the following settings to your likings...

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

skillFriendly=0.850000;

skillEnemy=0.850000;

precisionEnemy=0.650000;

precisionEnemy=0.650000;

Where 1.000000 is max difficulty and 0.000000 is min. Also note that there are 2 sets of these, one for regular and one for veteran setting.

/KC

[the_bengine 0]

i find the flanking procedure tiring aswell. Doesn't matter how well you choose your sniping position, you know after one shot that you're going to have to completely change location or spend the entire time watching your flanks.

The flanking is one of the few things that is good with the Ai in this game.

I'd never want to lose the flanking procedure, my problem with it is that instead of "i've fired some shots, maybe given my location away so may eventually encounter enemies on my flanks", it feels far more like "i've fired a shot, there WILL be an enemy on my flank".

I think a lot of us here agree that we don't want the AI to be necessarily more or less "intelligent". We simply want the AI to have a more random, human element to it's actions - (as someone mentioned earlier, less pinpoint accuracy, good/bad marksmen etc) - to give the impression that we're not up against an all-seeing machine.

Mine isn't a request for new IQ procedures but tweaks to the existing ones.

(anyway, i've just upgraded to a 7900GTX, the games so much better i've got nothing to moan about anymore Arma )

[Second 0]

I'd never want to lose the flanking procedure, my problem with it is that instead of "i've fired some shots, maybe given my location away so may eventually encounter enemies on my flanks", it feels far more like "i've fired a shot, there WILL be an enemy on my flank".

That is why people should disable AI's engage possibilities sometimes (make it random... What ever, but constantly used engage-orders by AI are nothing but nuisance and surprise spoiler). disabled engage possibilities doesn't suit to some situations, such as lone snipers/vehicles which are easier prey that way. In general it makes AI much more tougher, as AI leader won't kill it's men with engage orders.

[mechastalin 0]

I once shot at a squad of stationary soldiers with a Mk12 SPR from 300m in the dark. I hit their squad leader dead on in the head and within a second I had an SVD bullet come back and kill me. Mind you, this was on a custom mission that may have had the AI skill very high.

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

I once shot at a squad of stationary soldiers with a Mk12 SPR from 300m in the dark. I hit their squad leader dead on in the head and within a second I had an SVD bullet come back and kill me. Mind you, this was on a custom mission that may have had the AI skill very high.

Nah, happens with all AI skill levels for me.

[Delta 5-1 3]

*bump* Don't wanna see this thread die, very interesting topic and I hope somebody is trying to make a difference with this stuff, damn shame I dunno how to mod the AI yet except for actual mission maker scripting..

[the_bengine 0]

me too.

I've finally managed to convince some mates to get a copy and join in the fun but i'm a little concerned that they'll be put off by the harsh AI levels in coop games.

From what i've read, lowering the AI abilitiy doesn't solve their accuracy and some of my friends aren't exactly the best gamers.

guess we'll have to wait and see...

[NeMeSiS 11]

From what i've read, lowering the AI abilitiy doesn't solve their accuracy and some of my friends aren't exactly the best gamers.

It does but not enough. Try the precision values in the username.armaprofile file.

[the_bengine 0]

cheers ofpforum, will try that.

can i call you ofpfo for short?

it sounds funny and has the double whammy of being a pallindrome.

excellent.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]ofpfo

Hehe, sorry, but that sounds more like a gone-wrong noodle snack than an appropriate short version of a username.

Couldn´t resist, sorry

[Second 0]

I once shot at a squad of stationary soldiers with a Mk12 SPR from 300m in the dark. I hit their squad leader dead on in the head and within a second I had an SVD bullet come back and kill me. Mind you, this was on a custom mission that may have had the AI skill very high.

Muzzleflash Altough it's has been problem way back from OFP: player is better at clear day and AI in nights and fog. In ArmA this seems to be even badder, but i don't know reason for it... Maybe it has to do with AI's better ears and spotting ability. With FFUR in OFP i think i noticed the same, AI becomes very dangerous opponent at low visibility conditions.

But happens also during daytime. I shot their team leader in same conditions (had SVD and enemy was blufor's standart squad, which skill level was 1) at mid day ... They didn't see me instantly and i tried to stay low in quite crappy spot (only 1/2 of me was covered with bush, in top of the hill)... After about 5-10 seconds they finally spotted me (binoculars or sniper) and nailed me.

[KenO 0]

This is funny. Some are complaining about AI performing too well. Elsewhere there are messages about how stupid the AI is.

After half a year I would say it is just peculiar. One time it outperforms you and on the next is stupid and does not even fire. Even in the same mission. Because it is somewhat random it is very hard to say anything definetive about it's performance.

EDIT: But I guess that we can all agree that it does not do things like real soldiers do.

That's it, in a nutshell...

Quote[/b] ]found myself being hunted down by a BMP2 which had decided to drop whatever it was doing on the battlefield because the commander overheard a bullet being fired 250m away on a hilltop

I'm no expert, but surely that's not realistic..?

If I was a squad leader and an enemy sniper was sapping my units, I would send an armored vehicle after them too...however, I would not send it for a single shot or even a single casuality...But lose a whole squad then thats another story.

I agree with the folks that say tone down the accuracy by hearing and tone up accuracy by sight. Also agree that ai needs to shoot more with less confidence. Really good firefights are few and far between, usually you just hear the stready thump of simi fire snipers, with the occasional 500m ak auto burst of death.

Ai needs to take more "snap/kneejerk" shots with low probability of hit, but high suppression value. Especially, if they are just going to prone swim around out in the open.

For now, I will keep turning what is perceived as a disadvantage, into advantage. After all, anytime you know the enemy is going to react a certain way, you can use it to your advantage. btw, for snipers, shoot 'n' scoot is very realistic.

[Rustman 0]

interesting topic. Seems odd they programmed the AI to track by sound. It's completely unrealistic...talking from personal experience, a person can not pinpoint a shooter by sound. not 90%...not 70% chance...zero. You can't....at all. The most precise you will ever be is "South/North/east/West somewhere"...."Somewhere in the vicinity of that village/town/neighborhood"...."The other side of that river"...etc. Ranging by sound is only slightly less imprecise. Positive identification of an enemy position comes by sight only. You see something that tells you that there is a bad guy at that position. A muzzle flash..dust being kicked up from gas discharge..the point of origin of a tracer round...a dude with a rifle pointed at you (that's a big clue right there). Ehhh...stupid.

[paragraphic l 2]

*not sure if the discussion really is hear vs sight*

I agree that sound only should raise the awareness of the units.

A first shot HEARED would result in the AI's awareness in the general direction (which could be stated as N E S W or maybe 30 60 90 ... 180 ... 360 degrees) which is all horizontal information.

Then the sight should kick in for pinpointing the shooter.

And I think the sight should be superiour to humans as I'm sure my brains help me a lot when watching, something I don't think the AI have similar to us (I hope)

[maddogx 13]

Using a test mission with a small script, I managed to find out some interesting things about the AI:

- Once the AI hear you shoot, they know your exact position. Not withing a small radius (not even decimeters) but your EXACT position. Even if they can't see you, even if they have their back to you, even if you're 300m away. He will know where you are. Kinda like an evil version of Santa Clause.

- AI can be confused with grenades! If you throw a grenade behind an AI soldier for example, he will think the point of explosion is your current position. (Only if he can't actually see you).

Also, I may be wrong, but I believe BI is already addressing the situation. Look at this command. Looks to me like it would be used to change AI information on a target. Hopefully it will be implemented in the code, and not required to be scripted.

[stryker555 0]

Ok judging from posts like MadDogX and paragraphic I have come to the idea that the AI needs to tone down their accuracy and locating skills by the distance they are away from you.

If they are less than say 100 meters they should know more or less where u are and fire some semi fire shots at u accurately... like in OFP and not the super accurate rapid bursts from medium/long range as in ARMA.

If they are more than 100 meters from you they should look in the general direction where you fired your shot and start flanking, if they are firing rapid bursts bullet spread and recoil should affect their accuracy JUST like how bullet spread and recoil affects us human players.

And another thing If anything friendly AI accuracy needs to be beefed up! In OFP friendly AI were good at surviving and shoot straight most of the time, I could count on them more or less, cant say the same for the US AI in Arma though they make good corpses they die waaay too easily in my opinion.

[Armalite666 0]

The AI in Arma is a damn site less accurate and a lot slower than the guys I play COD UO with.

I'm crap and I can still run fire and head shot a moving target with a bolt action rifle.