Psychology of killing.

[rgndrock 0]

The real test of today's soldier is whether or not to hesitate to pull the trigger on anyone, anywhere and at any time when the fight is on to save his own life and the life of his brothers.

Problem being with war nowadays, the enemy doesn't wear a specific uniform.  He intentionally blends in to the masses of civilians.  A weapon means nothing, as it is local law where we are fighting that everyone has the right to have one.  And beyond that the weapon they carry isn't always visible.  Today the battlefield isn't just filled with men carrying rifles.  It is laden with women and children strapped (not always by choice) with explosives.  Family cars turned into bombs with the families in them.  Today's soldier has to be ready for doing even the unthinkable, in the face of death.  

We are taught repeatedly about target ID and things to look for in an attempt to save innocence but what it comes down to is a millisecond of reaction time.  You yell, you shout, you may even fire a warning but if someone doesn't stop what do you do?  They keep coming and you die...you kill them and find they had nothing and were just scared.  So were you.  It becomes more of being able to live with it afterwards.  

Can I do it?  Yes.  Will I?  Most likely.  Will I be happy about it?  Not at all, but it depends on whether me and all my brothers come home afterwards.  You enlist for country.  You fight to come home.

Real war isn't a cut and dry series of questions like the thread suggests.  Not at all.  But I do appreciate that it allows those of us that understand to enlighten those who haven't had the experience to see what goes on in our minds.

That is the one thing that no game/sim can't ever recreate and who would want it if it could?  Kind of makes you laugh at all the times in-game when someone gets TK'd and the dead guy complains about target ID, doesn't it?

[MehMan 0]

Just out of interest, I'd like to know how many of the folks who've responded to this thread have actual military training and experience.

Probably almost nobody.

[d3dsh33p 0]

i havnt killed anyone in 3 days, im getting a little itchy for it

[baddo 0]

Just out of interest, I'd like to know how many of the folks who've responded to this thread have actual military training and experience.

Well the military training and experience I have all comes from the military service I did in the Finnish Defence Forces.

I don't have war experience and I don't want it. I feel sorry for those who have such experience.

The number one reason why we have a military here is to make it not worth it for anyone to attack us, i.e. to show that your losses will be so high it would be stupid from you to attack us (if only J.Stalin would have understood this before attacking...). In other words, our goal is to not get war experience.

[evil koala 6]

Just out of interest, I'd like to know how many of the folks who've responded to this thread have actual military training and experience.

US Army here

[Jake the Snake 0]

Well it kind of depends. If there was say another civil war, I probably would still do it, but still I would think about it. Now, over in Iraq/Afghanistan- for example- I'd have no problem killing terrorists and insurgents with AKs and RPGs in hand, at all.

[BadBone 0]

Well first of all I think the web page you refer to really is only speculating and not showing how it ends up in such conclusions. I mean, did they count the number of bullets fired in a war and then compared that number to the total casualties? Like, if a bullet didn't hit anyone then the person who fired it didn't want to hit anyone? Quite nonsense in my opinion... also the point "Some pilots didn't shoot down a single enemy plane." really tells us nothing, it could as well be that the pilots that didn't get any kills just were not engaged in such battle situations, or they were so bad they couldn't hit anything even if they wanted to. That article really doesn't give us proof to back up its arguments. It just throws some "facts" at us but doesn't tell how those "facts" were found to be true. Significant problem with the reliability of this information source, I say.

But to answer the question: I picked #1 but with a condition.

I would have to be serving in the Finnish Defence Forces and facing an enemy which is trying to invade our country or something similar. So I would do it only as a defensive measure and when my actions are backed by our legislation and government. I have given an oath in which I promise to protect this country and as part of fulfilling that oath I would need to kill other people if that is what the commanders of our country are telling me to do in an event of war.

As a civilian I will never shoot anyone, I am confident about that. I am by nature a person who does not want to hurt anyone. You can force me into hurting other people but as I said, it requires our nation to be under direct threat. If I get into a "to kill or not to kill" situation as a civilian, I am more likely to choose "not to kill" and find some other way out of the situation, as the "to kill" choice would most likely get myself into prison for a long time and that's really not what I want.

If I had to shoot someone in a war, I am sure the nightmares would disturb me for the rest of my life. So I believe that I would have conscience problems despite of the fact that I now say I could kill someone while at war. I would do it for my nation but it would have a high price, there is no doubt about that.

No its not nonsense, that article was just the 1st google hit i choose to go with my poll, its a well known documented fact.

Have a google yourself and you will see.

[BadBone 0]

I think this poll is pathetic. You have to be in a situation like that before you know...

I think if you killed something, you'll never be the same... and thats not in a good way... A lot of veterans are traumatized, and wake up everynight with that face in their mind... thats not cool... It just F**** up your life.....

If you saw a guy, scared, screaming for his mother, shitting his pants... would you shoot him?

Well thats my point.

Quote[/b] ]If you saw a guy, scared, screaming for his mother, shitting his pants... would you shoot him?

would you? You've been given an order to open fire. Answers 1-4. Thats the reason of the poll, im not asking if there are cold blooded killers amongst us, im asking if you  happened to be in the situation that you are in ArmA but in real life, could you indeed do it?

I didnt ask if you would be f****d up in the head after.

[max power 21]

Read On Killing by Lt. Col. David Grossman. It is a pscyhological text written primarily for veterans who have seen direct action. Whether you can kill or not depends on your training and other factors. Few soldiers have a problem with killing at the time in modern warfare because the military takes great pains to ensure that conditions are right for it. Few people don't have a problem with it afterwards, though. According to Grossman, it is a guilt that many veterans take to their grave.

[maddogx 13]

I voted number 2. It really depends on the situation though - if I was a soldier, and I knew I had to kill the other guy or he would kill me, I think I could pull the trigger.

But I could never kill another person for any other reason than to protect my own life or that of my family and friends. I'm very sure of that.

I'm from London, England by the way.