Zoom levels

[Metal Heart 0]

Quote[/b] ]its the middle view that is the only view this game should have.

Luckily the game is very moddable, there's at least one released sound/config mod that doesn't have zoom, Modern warfare mod. Maybe the ACE mod will be the same, it'll supposedly be similiar to WGL for OFP.

I really don't see BIS taking the zoom out from the default config, it's there for a reason. I also don't see the avarage gamer buying three monitors, a kick ass video card to feed them and a TIR just to be able to play the game.

[shataan 1]

In Delta Force 2 the ACOGs inscope view had a distance to target sorta range finder thingy.  You could only set approximiate distances tho.  From 300 default,to 400/500/600.

300 being 1x, 400=2x magnification, 500=3x, and 600 being 4x.

  You still had to adjust your aim  a fair bit for any target inbetween those distances.   It was possible to tag a sniper at 650 to 700 meters if you were good with distance judging.

 So if I was engaging peeps at 300 with a setting of 1X, and a sniper was 500 meters away and shooting at me. ... I could use terrain masking, adjust the ACOG to 3X, and either get a kill or at the very least force the sniper to relocate.

   DF 2 was a pretty good short/mid/long range engagement game in mp. And adjusting on the fly was cool, and felt like it required a fair bit of skill.

  I do like how BIS has the ACOG.  A range to target reading ala DF 2s might be nice tho.  You`d still have to adjust your aim, but it would help to know how far a given possible target is.

[frederf 0]

I don't understand. An ACOG has only 1 zoom level and has no range finder built in. This is how it really is.

Are you talking about adjustable zeros?

[WNxJaymz 0]

woooooow, I love how I all I wanted to know was "why" the ACOG zooms to 16x yet several conversations are clouding my answer.....

[4 IN 1 0]

woooooow, I love how I all I wanted to know was "why" the ACOG zooms to 16x yet several conversations are clouding my answer.....

it is a balance made between total realism and gameplay,

about hijacking, no, we just dont want to bring up another 10 topic to talking something related, there is too much unneed post and malarkeys on forums

[max power 21]

woooooow, I love how I all I wanted to know was "why" the ACOG zooms to 16x yet several conversations are clouding my answer.....

Here is your answer from the developers:

Quote[/b] ]

Default FOV setting of soldier has some range, his eyes can zoom 4x there even with ironsights.

All optics than use this as base and count than with real world values - ACOG, SVD 4x base, M24 10x atc.

Zoom setings (FOV) settings are in weapons config.

I hope this makes it an iota less cloudy for you.

[WNxJaymz 0]

My question is are the zoom levels realistic. As in, are they actually set to 4x etc etc. As in, is that the same level of zoom you actually get from an ACOG.

[frederf 0]

That's something only you can determine with your monitor, a ruler, and your eyes.

A circle 1m in diameter at 100m makes an angle of about 0.01 radians at your eye in real life.

Thus "1x" vision would make the same angle. Let's say you sit 50cm away from your monitor. To make that same angle the circle should actually be 5mm in diameter (like if you put a put a ruler on your screen).

Now normal vision while walking around in ArmA is not 1x, it's like 0.33x or something. So to find out what your vision in ArmA is normally, you would take a known object at a known distance and figure out what should it's angular size be at "1x", then you compare it to what is its actual angular size is on your desktop. Then compare the angular size looking through the ACOG scope.

The image will look smaller than 1x in normal unzoomed view, will look the correct size in 1x view, and should be "4x the size of the size it is when in 1x view" when looking through the ACOG scope.

Basically to test if the "4x is really 4x" you have to FIND what 1x is and see if something seen through the ACOG is 4x bigger than whatever 1x would be.

[WNxJaymz 0]

Now normal vision while walking around in ArmA is not 1x, it's like 0.33x or something.

Would it be considered 1x in other games? BF2 for example?

What I did to find out that the ACOG zooms to 16x was: I took a screenshot of a tree looking at it normally. Then took another screenshot looking at it through an ACOG sight. It ended up being the same as if I had just zoomed in on the first screenshot to 1600% in photoshop.

[frederf 0]

Now normal vision while walking around in ArmA is not 1x, it's like 0.33x or something.

Would it be considered 1x in other games? BF2 for example?

What I did to find out that the ACOG zooms to 16x was: I took a screenshot of a tree looking at it normally. Then took another screenshot looking at it through an ACOG sight. It ended up being the same as if I had just zoomed in on the first screenshot to 1600% in photoshop.

Nope, BF2 doesn't use 1x either, very few games use 1x. When you bring up the ironsights on your M16 in ArmA and hold down your right mouse button to zoom in... that's about 1x. And it's easy to see why 1x isn't used, you'd be unable to see much of the landscape.

What's easy to lose track of is "4x zoom" is four times as magnified as something else. You need a reference point. 4 times magnified compares to what?

Say we're both in "1x" and I zoom out to 0.25x and you zoom in to 4x. Your magnification is 16 times bigger (4 / 0.25 = 16) than as my image, but you're using a "4x scope".

[WNxJaymz 0]

Thanks a lot mate, the does clarify a lot. So that's why in all games (BF2 included) your irons sights have a bit of zoom. They're just bringing you up to 1x......it's all so clear to me know

So, just to clarify...the ACOG zoom level in Arma is what you would actually see through a real life ACOG scope (correct zoom level) correct?

I'm just so confused, 4 in 1 said it was for balance reasons but you've just said it's for realistic reasons.

[max power 21]

That's something only you can determine with your monitor, a ruler, and your eyes.

A circle 1m in diameter at 100m makes an angle of about 0.01 radians at your eye in real life.

Thus "1x" vision would make the same angle. Let's say you sit 50cm away from your monitor. To make that same angle the circle should actually be 5mm in diameter (like if you put a put a ruler on your screen).

Now normal vision while walking around in ArmA is not 1x, it's like 0.33x or something. So to find out what your vision in ArmA is normally, you would take a known object at a known distance and figure out what should it's angular size be at "1x", then you compare it to what is its actual angular size is on your desktop. Then compare the angular size looking through the ACOG scope.

The image will look smaller than 1x in normal unzoomed view, will look the correct size in 1x view, and should be "4x the size of the size it is when in 1x view" when looking through the ACOG scope.

Basically to test if the "4x is really 4x" you have to FIND what 1x is and see if something seen through the ACOG is 4x bigger than whatever 1x would be.

Are you taking into account the monitor size and how far away you are from it? Obviously, I would have an advantage on my 32" screen over someone on a 17" screen, given the same distance between the viewer and the monitor.

[frederf 0]

I'm trying to. Assumption is that the angle subtended by their vision of their monitor is approximately the same.

I don't know if the 4x ACOG is really 4x, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

[4 IN 1 0]

Thanks a lot mate, the does clarify a lot. So that's why in all games (BF2 included) your irons sights have a bit of zoom. They're just bringing you up to 1x......it's all so clear to me know

So, just to clarify...the ACOG zoom level in Arma is what you would actually see through a real life ACOG scope (correct zoom level) correct?

I'm just so confused, 4 in 1 said it was for balance reasons but you've just said it's for realistic reasons.

well since not what i am focus on right now(getting the game works, is more improtant), so i didnt do the maths for it, sorry for mixing things up

[OkitaMakoto 0]

lack of zoom in Red Orchestra worked out fine. You dont need to see insane detail on the enemy, just get the iron sight on him and shoot. miss? try again. if hes that far, of course it might be a bit difficult to get him. then when you use scopes and such, use the realistic values and everything is cool.

(even though Red Orchesra lost my gametime to BF2's Project Reality and ArmA) : )

*edit* this isnt meant to complain more or anything. I was just stating that I liked Red Orchestras use of zoom and lack-of zoom. Dont know what they used as your default view (1x or whatnot, maybe less... cuz you had a good FOV...)

[4 IN 1 0]

lack of zoom in Red Orchestra worked out fine.  You dont need to see insane detail on the enemy, just get the iron sight on him and shoot.  miss?  try again.  if hes that far, of course it might be a bit difficult to get him. then when you use scopes and such, use the realistic values and everything is cool.

(even though Red Orchesra lost my gametime to BF2's Project Reality and ArmA)   : )

*edit*  this isnt meant to complain more or anything.  I was just stating that I liked Red Orchestras use of zoom and lack-of zoom.  Dont know what they used as your default view (1x or whatnot, maybe less... cuz you had a good FOV...)

ro and arma is just taking a different approach on many things, apple and orange

[sickboy 13]

Thanks for replying mate. Do you think that setting the values like this was the most realistic way of doing it? I mean, what is the main reason you didn't just set them to real world values so looking down an SVD scope is 4x or an M24 is 12x?

If I read what you said correctly, it means that you have 4x modifier on the fov, so going into ACOG view is actually 4x4 = 16x?

AFAIK the values are taken to accomadate for the following:

2d computer screen of 17-22" / 3d Real World

The problem is that everything becomes too tiny when not using certain smaller fov's...

I don't know if it really is possible to simulate our eye's FOV on a computer screen, but if you could then everything would look very very small and makes the game simply unplayable.

Hmmm just see that I missed the last page of this thread it seems that what im saying is already said majorly :P

[wipman 1]

Hi, the ACOG zoom factor or the G36 series, is 200% unrealistic,

i had a G36 in the hands once and belive me... it's nothing like in

the game; some one should do an addon weapons pack via config

that changes the zoom factor of the BIS weapons (and some vehicles)

and also that irrational reversed recoil plus the lateral dispersion;

that plainly sucks. Let's C ya

[churnedfortaste 0]

What I'd like to know is are the virtual distances correct? the metres seem a bit small to me...

[sickboy 13]

What I'd like to know is are the virtual distances correct? the metres seem a bit small to me...

I think a meter ingame is really a meter, but the way you perceive it as player/unit is not... it's all a product of the FOV... as stated earlier, ur watching on a very small screen, getting real human eye FOV would make everything look extremely small and unplayable but the meters would probably really look and feel as meters.

Also I think the running speed ingame is simply a bit too high, which also might give a weird feeling about distances ingame etc

[armored_sheep 56]

If I read what you said correctly, it means that you have 4x modifier on the fov, so going into ACOG view is actually 4x4 = 16x?

correct, M24 has 10x scope so (4x10 in game)