The high jump argument

[bootleg soldier 2]

Saw someone mention jumping in a previous topic and was wandering if there would be any support for a system similar to COD 2 whereby standing next to objects of a certain height the option to climb over it is given (ideas for how this would be implemented welcome ie on screen icon or an extra button)

Obviously this negates the jumping in open play as can only happen in a climbing sense.

The reason i mention it is i was playing Evolution the other night and was doing a couple of side missions (so i could get my harrier   ) and had a mission to destroy armour (couple of BMPs and a BRDM). The armour was located behind a house with a fence (3-4 foot high at the most) and the obvious thing for me to do was get behind that house and use it for cover as i popped off AT rounds, even ducking inside if things got hairy.

Perfect in theory yet the gated entrance to this property was located on the side of the building most exposed to the enemys line of site and getting through it undetected was not an option.

As i stood there for about 5 mins i started to get frustrated that this fence (that quite honestly my 92 year old grandma could climb over with ease) was stopping an average grunt with thousands of dollars worth of kit effectively dealing with his enemy in a way that would take 2 seconds thought and action in real life to achieve (whether i took the armour down effectively from the cover of the house was still up to me).

In the end i died pathetically as i had kinda lost interest and tried to fire over the fence and even though the AT launcher from 3rd person had a line of sight to the 1st BMP it still hit the fence   and i was turned to swiss cheese by the BMP in an instant.

It seems that a system like this will be immensely suited to ArmA as there will be no hope for any decent urban fighting to look and feel good if walls and objects have to be skirted around exposing people in the street. (What was the first lesson Allied soldiers learned in WW2, STAY OUT OF THE STREET)

Whether this can be introduced i know not but i would be interested to find peoples opinions on whether a system like this would suit them or be appealing.

I'm sure BIS must have thought of this and would also like to hear from any Devs why it could not be done and if there is any plans.(not that i'm holding out any hope they only seem to come out when there is no chance of looking silly) I am also sure that an institution like the US military would ask for this straight away with VBS2 because VBS2 would be pretty much useless to recruits training for modern urban scenarios if they can't even follow a terrorist over walls and through gardens, (mind you the terrorist wouldn't be able to do it either, he'd just run straight down the street )

Opinions of all readers welcome,

Best regards Bootleg

[Average Joe 0]

I agree, Would be a great addition and nobody can even begin to argue about "jumping", because its "climbing or scaling"

[bootleg soldier 2]

I had to make that very clear as i thought people may say that

[d3dsh33p 0]

would be nice

[Commando84 0]

yeah that is greatly needed especially where there are small fences that you seen fat cops in the Tv show cops climb over with ease

[majoris 10]

The animation system in OFP is pretty horrible in my opinion.. accounts for "magic" reloading by waving hands, jumpy anims, etc.. lots of problems.

Look at the clumsiness of even climbing a ladder. Wouldn't fences or obstacles be the same?

[bootleg soldier 2]

Quote[/b] ]Look at the clumsiness of even climbing a ladder. Wouldn't fences or obstacles be the same?

While i agree with this in essence i feel that an attempt or even the option would be nice. It is an essential part of infantry tactics (which is what i thought the meat of ArmA is)

[4 IN 1 0]

The animation system in OFP is pretty horrible in my opinion.. accounts for "magic" reloading by waving hands, jumpy anims, etc.. lots of problems.

Look at the clumsiness of even climbing a ladder. Wouldn't fences or obstacles be the same?

and i dont think they have change that system in ArmA

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I think the ability to hop over obstacles would be cool.

[bootleg soldier 2]

Not just hop i mean scale fences and walls that could be done in RL (no point in half measures), can you imagine a spec-ops team sneaking into an enemy compound it would go something like this

Spec-op 1- "Okay how shall we get in"

Spec-op 2- "Right let me take this pack off, i'll climb that fence quietly and you pass the satchel charges over"

Spec-op 1- "Right it's just....."

Spec-op 2- "What man spit it out"

Spec-op 1- "We can't do it"

Spec-op 2- "Erm... what are you talkin about"

Spec-op 1- "We can't climb try it"

Spec-op 2- "Well i'll be..., whats wrong with us?"

Spec-op 1- "Don't know Sir, how shall we get in"

Spec-op 2- "Well there is only the well gaurded death trap of a front entance that gives any kind of access"

Spec-op 1- "Don't suppose you have an Armoured Platoon of tanks in your pocket have you Sir"

Spec-op 2- "No but we've got to try lets go"

Nothing was seen or heard from these men again, the military has refused to comment on their deaths and say the skills they give to their soldiers are adequate for the jobs they face.

   

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I know what you meant, anyone who would honestly look at the idea would know too.

[b1sh0p 0]

I vote yes for jumping/scaling. Not BF2 or CS style jumping, however. No bunny hopping.

If they add jumping, they should make it similar to the running slide to prone. Y'know how when you hit the prone key when you're running, it takes a while before you finally hit the dirt? Jumping should be like that. Something that isn't instantanious, and is a little akward. It could easily be used to get up over small inclines that we can't get over now, but it would never be able to be used as bunny hopping.

The moment anything that resembles BF2/CS bunny hopping enters ArmA, is the moment I start looking for another game.

My 2 cents.

[bootleg soldier 2]

Quote[/b] ]I know what you meant, anyone who would honestly look at the idea would know too.

I know i'm sorry, it wasn't meant as having a go at you i just had the idea of the little scenario and just had to put it in

Quote[/b] ]The moment anything that resembles BF2/CS bunny hopping enters ArmA, is the moment I start looking for another game.

Thats why i specifically said it was only for climbing/scaling, we are after a degree of realism here and your right, why would anyone first thought under fire be ooh if i bunny hop and dive to the floor they can't hit me , BF2 was in part ruined by this and i think that you are alluding to a style like GRAW which does work pretty well on the whole.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Quote[/b] ]I know what you meant, anyone who would honestly look at the idea would know too.

I know i'm sorry, it wasn't meant as having a go at you i just had the idea of the little scenario and just had to put it in

Quote[/b] ]The moment anything that resembles BF2/CS bunny hopping enters ArmA, is the moment I start looking for another game.

Thats why i specifically said it was only for climbing/scaling, we are after a degree of realism here and your right, why would anyone first thought under fire be ooh if i bunny hop and dive to the floor they can't hit me , BF2 was in part ruined by this and i think that you are alluding to a style like GRAW which does work pretty well on the whole.

Yeah dude, I know you weren't having a go. What I meant by "anyone honestly looking at it..." was meant for anyone who reads the title and immediatly shouts, "Dear God, jumping!? What!!!?? AAHH!"

[bootleg soldier 2]

Ahh i see you are one of the precious few who read first and comment later (could do with a few more of you around here)    

[b1sh0p 0]

One time I was advancing through Paraiso with a couple squaddies, and we came up to a condo complex. The concrete was raised 1, maybe 1 and a half feet over the surrounding terrain. We started moving towards it to clear it, and found ourselves stopped in our tracks, cause we can't lift our legs 1 foot to clear the concrete.

I don't know if I would support scaling walls like those 7 foot grey or red brick walls, but clearing obstacles that are only 2-3 feet tall? Heck yeah.

[Dallas 9]

Didn't the 1.04 fix that?

[bootleg soldier 2]

Quote[/b] ]I don't know if I would support scaling walls like those 7 foot grey or red brick walls, but clearing obstacles that are only 2-3 feet tall?   Heck yeah.

Fair enough but why not the large walls (just out of interest), if it could be done so it takes a while, and the player is obviously exposed while doing so would it be that bad?

The one thing i have not taken into account is the AI and whether they could do this to, arguments for MP players only is strong and given the AI's patchiness at other things (yes i know apart from flanking) it may not be the best idea to give them that ability.

Quote[/b] ]Didn't the 1.04 fix that?

Fix what matey?

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Didn't the 1.04 fix that?

You can sorta walk-up some really low walls, but many objects that you should be able to easily get over are still inaccessible.

[bootleg soldier 2]

Oh i see sorry Dallas i didn't know what you meant my bad

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

This is really hard to do, but I vote for it.

While running it should be possible to make a 20-40 cm jump.

Climbing up a wall is much more difficult since for all objects it must be defined what could serve as a grip or otherwise you could use barb-wires to climb. And the stamina/weight must be known, with 50kg in a backpack you do not jump up to a 2,20m high grip and lift yourself up.

[robert(uk) 0]

You can climb onto/over things in Hidden & Dangerous 2, which is really cool. I would really like to see this in ArmA...

[ck-claw 1]

Didnt 6thsense mod thingy have a hop up/jump option?

Albeit a bit crude-but did work

[shataan 1]

Vietcong had the coolest climb ability feature. You`d walk up to lower objects, and see your character actually scale that low object. I dunno if we need it in this particular game tho. It is still a cool feature.

[ShrubMiK 0]

Some means of climbing things that would realistically be climbable in real life gets a thumbs up from me.

Some means of hopping over low obstacles gets a thumbs up from me.

As long as it is implemented in a way that doesn't lead to people hopping around unrealistically like some other games I could mention

And obviously while you are climbing something your gun should be stowed; you can hurdle a small wall while still holding your gun but not shoot until after you land; etc.

Whether we can realistically expect to see significant engine changes like this in ArmA I don't know...I would certainly expect to see some improvedgame engine mechanics in the next game and I've no doubt there will be.