BIS Checkout?!?!?

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

BIS REALLY needs to check the behaviour of AI.

They ALL behave like......i dont know...IDIOTS.

Drivers: run into everything, trees, houses, other soldiers,

other vehics.

Pilots: If you use AI as pilot and player as gunner it´s

IMPOSSIBLE to make them stay in ONE spot so you as

gunner is able to lock on target for example. They just

fly by and stops, then starts shouting target that taget

this. How the heck am i supposed to do that if they dont

turn around.

AI inf: MAKE them USE the sodding bridge or get rid of

that script telling them to loose their equipments, guns

and ammo...

[vilas 477]

AI fires RPG rockets agains other man units (nonsense)

AI is not diorientated after shot, he exacly knows where player is

AI better see player than other AI

my undying exampl

i am sniper 200 meters on back of two soldiers, they are not in group

i am in deep wood

i shot one man

another rapidly turns back and shoots me

how the hell he knows where exactly i was ?

they don't use "eye" or "ear", they know about my position, because "player" get points by killing other unit

so AI is not more realistic after 7 years since OFP was released

in OFP they were less orientated than here

[NeMeSiS 11]

We have already discussed this to death and you are both horribly wrong...

[mattxr 9]

We have already discussed this to death and you are both horribly wrong...

i wouldnt no, shooting AI from a bush with a silencer and they all seem to see me and shoot and through uber grenades that hit every time at me lol

[NeMeSiS 11]

We have already discussed this to death and you are both horribly wrong...

i wouldnt no, shooting AI from a bush with a silencer and they all seem to see me and shoot and through uber grenades that hit every time at me lol

If you hit someone then yes indeed, they know where you are and this is reported to the whole group. Its rather strange that they immediately know your exact position but its still better then them not reacting/knowing your position at all...

(Better would have been if they would know/search your general area but hey, if you know how to do this then go ahead )

But we already discussed this, just read the linked topic, i dont feel like typing the same things over and over again...

The only words i will waste here is that i hope that BI will fix the knowsabout value bug which doesnt go down gradually which can give rather strange results at times.

[TheElite 0]

We have already discussed this to death and you are both horribly wrong...

whilst you may have discussed it and if this is how you define the answer to this problem then , i wouldnt want to see the discussion that determined such an answer .

There is a big problem and they are not wrong at all it would seem altho 10 or 11 fanboys who have a hide and it will go away shield are content with this, there are many 1000`s who are not.

it is a major bug one which without a fix will eliminate any point in people vs Ai maps.

[NeMeSiS 11]

We have already discussed this to death and you are both horribly wrong...

whilst you may have discussed it and if this is how you define the answer to this problem then , i wouldnt want to see the discussion that determined such an answer.

Which answer to what problem? Ive seen several problems listed here, all discussed several times already..

But when people post this:

Quote[/b] ]i am sniper 200 meters on back of two soldiers, they are not in group

i am in deep wood

i shot one man

another rapidly turns back and shoots me

how the hell he knows where exactly i was ?

I mean, duh, you shot him! The AI can hear both you shoot and the other guy dying, i dont see a bug here.

I made 3 vids regarding this, i am converting and uploading them now to show that the AI isnt psychic.

[TheElite 0]

Quote[/b] ]how the hell he knows where exactly i was ?

I hope your video shows the 200 meter shot and the knowsabout figure of the group being shot and how quickly the whole group find out where you are from a deadman.

in your second video make the shooter an ai and put yourself in the group being shot and hear conact all shoot that man behind that tree northwes2 200 meters (behind us)

i hope your 3rd video shows the code on how to eliminate this problem and thus we can all share your ease at which you play ai vs people maps.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Quote[/b] ]how the hell he knows where exactly i was ?

I hope your video shows the 200 meter shot and the knowsabout figure of the group being shot and how quickly the whole group find out where you are from a deadman.

in your second video make the shooter an ai and put yourself in the group being shot and hear conact all shoot that man behind that tree northwes2 200 meters (behind us)

i hope your 3rd video shows the code on how to eliminate this problem and thus we can all share your ease at which you play ai vs people maps.

Uploading now, i made the video like vilas described:

1 player+2 ungrouped enemies.

part 1: Player, unsilenced weapon, shoot 1 soldier, the other is within hearing range and reacts.

part 2: Player, silenced weapon, shoot one soldier, the other doesnt react until he is hit himself

part 3: player, Sniper, shoot one soldier, the other soldier is in the exact same position as in part 2 but now he can hear the shot so he reacts.

No objects inbetween which could interfere with LOS/whatever

Didnt think about showing the knowsabout value, but its clear that it hits the minimum as the soldier reacts and the compression would make it unreadable anyway.

If you want to try it yourself, place the units more or less like i did (Rahmadi runway, 1.05, not sure about the exact distances but just fiddle around with it, remember that the AI can hear too well and that this should be lowered (already discussed in the linked topic) and run a script like

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

_dude = _this select 0

#loop

hint format ["Knowsabout: %1", _dude knowsabout player]

~1

goto "loop"

On the 'other' unit

link, if you dont like death metal i suggest you turn the sound a bit low, i didnt know that FRAPS would also record the sound WMP makes..

EDIT#5719:

Quote[/b] ]i hope your 3rd video shows the code on how to eliminate this problem and thus we can all share your ease at which you play ai vs people maps.

What problem? And did i ever say i had a solution for something?

[maddogx 13]

@ofpforum:

You are partially right, but you're also forgetting something.

I think the problem most people (myself included) have with the AI, is that they can spot you at great distances even if you are lying in high grass or behind a bush. Of course they can hear where a shot came from, which is good, but they seem to hear "too well".

I will describe a typical situation in ArmA based on the example mentioned by vilas. In real life, the situation should play out as follows:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

- Player is lying in tall grass and partially concealed by a bush, 200 meters behind 2 AI soldiers.

- Player shoots and kills one of the AI soldiers.

- The other AI drops to the ground. He heard the shot and now knows the general direction of where it came from and he can estimate the distance (sound delay).

- The shot came from quite far away, so the AI tries to crawl to cover before firing back.

- Upon taking cover behind a rock the AI peeks over for a few seconds and looks in the approximate direction the shot came from. He does not immediately see the player because of concealment.

- Player opens fire on the AI soldier but hits the rock.

- The AI ducks down to conceal himself, but saw the flash and now knows the player's position, because he saw the flash.

- After waiting a few seconds, the AI soldier peeks over and fires a few shots toward the player.

...

^^ That's how it should be. But, this is what happens in ArmA:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

- Player is lying in tall grass and partially concealed by a bush, 200 meters behind 2 AI soldiers.

- Player shoots and kills one of the AI soldiers.

- The AI soldier drops to the ground, he already knows the player's exact position. He turns toward the player and almost immediately begins firing.

- Due to the AI's great accuracy, the player normally dies within seconds.

I hope this explains why people complain about the AI.

[sickboy 13]

I hope this explains why people complain about the AI.

I think it does explain better and more proper than others

BTW, for Vilas testing; was this shooting with your own Rifles or with BIS standard rifles and values? Might be an interesting thing to look at.

[NeMeSiS 11]

@ MadDogX: That is correct, and this is exactly what was discussed in the tread i linked to so now we discussed the exact same thing twice, i told that this would happen

Btw, AI taking cover and taking a few shot then ducking back wont happen, really..:

1. The animations are to slow, you could easely shoot them when they are going back to cover

2. It would be horrible to script (Its not just taking cover, its also what kind of cover, what to do when they are being flushed with a grenade, what to do when flanked, when to advance/find other cover etc etc etc)

[vilas 477]

OFPFORUM

what concerns video :

1) nice music

2) my SVD is just reskin and it has model magazine, no other values changed

so it was normal SVD

situation was in forest - i was almost behind the tree, i was not standig

in your case area is clear field

it makes a lot of difference, it is not the same situation as i described

if i will move few cm away fromtree i am dead

second solider is behind bush, i cannot see him without moving few meters, i know where he is because i am missionmaker of this mission, maybe n this screen there is no 250 meters, but al leaset 100 there is, no matter, he hears, or he see falling body

it is not an issue

issue of problem is: he knows eactly where i am

[sickboy 13]

2) my SVD is just reskin and it has model magazine, no other values changed

so it was normal SVD

Ok mate, afaik you did some changes in the ammo classes with visible, audible etc fire, I wasnt sure if you did the same for SVD, hence the question

[sirex 0]

am i the only person that had zero expectations of the AI holding up to the pre-release claims ?

AI sucks in arma, it sucks in just about every game. I'd be suprised if that situation changes anytime soon.

[vilas 477]

sirex - ARMA in my country is advertised on box as "most realistic battle field simulating system" "najbardziej realistyczny symulator pola walki"

it is not stupid game

i love playing RTCW, MOHAA i love it i still play it and i am satisfied with graphic or etc

but ARMA is not stupid game - it should not be :/

in OFP such situation never existed !

link to pic:

http://www.vilas.armaholic.net/sniper_situ.jpg

[NeMeSiS 11]

if i will move few cm away fromtree i am dead

second solider is behind bush, i cannot see him without moving few meters, i know where he is because i am missionmaker of this mission, maybe n this screen there is no 250 meters, but al leaset 100 there is, no matter, he hears, or he see falling body

it is not an issue

issue of problem is: he knows eactly where i am

Ah, now i see what you mean...

Yeah, its a shame that the AI instantly knows your location. The 'general area' conclusion from the last discussion would solve this but right now we cant set the knowsabout so the AI would always know about you anyway, and the fact that the knowsabout value doesnt lower gradually like in OFP makes everything alot more annoying.

Quote[/b] ]am i the only person that had zero expectations of the AI holding up to the pre-release claims ?

I expected the same AI as in OFP, so i was pleasantly surprised

[TheElite 0]

Quote[/b] ]@ MadDogX: That is correct, and this is exactly what was discussed in the tread i linked to so now we discussed the exact same thing twice, i told that this would happen

you are partialy correct,

you are correct the same thing happened in same thread you linked and you are correct ,you took this as bis bashing and design a movie to make some other problem that dose not exist look ok.

where you are wrong is that ,you think there is no problem when infact there is.

hope that it explains it more. i know there are a lot of bis bashers , but pls dont assume all people pointing some bad things are all bis bashers. this behaviour is not a part of the cure it is a part of the disease.

[NeMeSiS 11]

hope that it explains it more. i know there are a lot of bis bashers , but pls dont assume all people pointing some bad things are all bis bashers.

See the above post, i thought that vilas thought there was something wrong with the hearing while he ment the AI being able to hear your exact position, which is indeed strange, but i thought i already mentioned that when i replyed to matt