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KaRRiLLioN

RTS-4 ArmA Released

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Guys, yesterday I play some new mission from Karrilian, and it looks great!

last version was beta 02.

And I make rar archive of two missions for hosters, and post there for people, who dont know, how to take it from the cashe, or just dont have a chanse to play this two new versions of RTS4.

PLZ, Download it and run ot the servers, becouse i cant play older versions! biggrin_o.gif

RTS4_beta02_CTI_MPMissions.rar

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Perhaps a Beta02 Link would be best. I can upload any version of RTS to fileplanet and have it here for you to edit in main post if you'd like. Sukhoi has done it already, but here's another link to the newest version of RTS (As of April 1, 8:00AM CST - Since you are a frequent updater I state time wink_o.gif )

http://files.filefront.com/KaRRiLL....fo.html

This download contains: The Northern Area on the map as well as the Southern Area. (2 Different Versions). One thing I did notice karr, is that these versions lacked a version # in the mission name. (In-game the version displays but not in file-name). I was second guessing whether or not these were the newest one's until I saw the creation date for the file(s). Who knows, I probably wasn't reading it correctly wink_o.gif

edit:

-- I could not agree MORE... AI Pathfinding is so horriffic, and it really takes this mission to expose this. How often do you have this many dumb ai running around? Think about 50+ people in a server, all with at least 3-5 AI.. That's around 250 AI units... All running into eachother and bottlenecking on certain ROADS and ugh! I hope BIS plays this and goes, "OMFG!@& We Gotta Fix This!!&@#! AI!* <-- Like its the end of the world.

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After some playing, which was pretty fun (when it worked), I've found a couple of things that I think you should change or add.

1: The MCU should start as locked and the commander should be the only one that can unlock it. This because we had to restart like 12 times because some idiot drove of with it.

2: there should be a limit in how many choppers and planes that you can have. Like 3 choppers and one 2 planes. This because when you've got enough to build bombers and choppers it all becomes a big bombing run war where one side constantly tries to fight the choppers and planes of and the other side keeps attacking until they win.

3: you should be able to build defenses. Like fortresses, barbwires, minefields, sandbags etc. These should be able to be build by any close to a repairtruck

4: you should be able to build machineguns and grenade launchers.

5: there should be some kind of cheap AA guns.

6: You should only be able to drop a limited number of ammo crates from the repair/ammo trucks.

7: if you have a territory you should be able to add defenses to it. There's no challenge at all seizing an enemy territory as it is now. Basic defense could also be automatically created with a few soldiers and 1 or 2 machine guns around the territory, which could later be filled up with more soldiers and more machine guns.

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edit:

-- I could not agree MORE... AI Pathfinding is so horriffic, and it really takes this mission to expose this. How often do you have this many dumb ai running around? Think about 50+ people in a server, all with at least 3-5 AI.. That's around 250 AI units... All running into eachother and bottlenecking on certain ROADS and ugh! I hope BIS plays this and goes, "OMFG!@& We Gotta Fix This!!&@#! AI!* <-- Like its the end of the world.

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but if you're not, even I was having trouble driving through Dolores last night. There was so much god damn garbage everywhere - turned over bmp's, helicopter hulls, unused ammo and repair trucks - that it made driving anything a challenge. It's not suprising that the AI can't handle hundreds and hundreds of objects everywhere.

First and foremost, I had a frigging awesome time last night. Me and my friend fought off attackers at an oil CP and certainly got our ass kicked. It was fun just trying to survive.

However, this game needs a lot of tweaking!

The amount of armor was just absolutely ridiculous. I saw a column of about 7 Strykers driving down a road - persumably directed by a player using multiple AI - and there were Abrahms everywhere. There really needs to be a limit to how much armor can be taken out within a period of time, or just how much armor period. I gave up trying to attack Abrahams because I realized that same player could pump another one out by the time I destroyed it.

Gotta be a script to delete unused vehicles. It clogs the server up big time.

Limit the amount of AI one person can have, give them the ability to delete own AI units. Essential.

This next one is tricky: there really needs to be a variable resource. Perhaps money, or some sort of mineral, that can be used to buy 2nd hand or mercenary vehicles. It's a little crazy that you pretty much have to build a fire base to prevent total annihiliation, and it would be nice to be able to build something without needing a vehicle factory or barracks. How, where and when I'm not sure. confused_o.gif

Some other ideas:

1) instead of 24 minute days ( way too fast! ) how about 30 minute days, 10 minute nights? Just make sure it syncs up with everyone.

2) Possibly link capture points to prevent "hot potato" gameplay, although I suspect due to the way resources work this wouldn't really work. It would be nice to have a 'frontline' to fight for, though, instead of just flying around ambushing cp's alone. I also agree with the poster above me that having some really basic CP Defenses would help. Right now you just sorta fly around, destroy a CP and repeat about a million times.

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I will be looking into a method for placing static defenses like MG's, etc, but when it comes to placing objects like sandbag fortresses, wire, etc.--those are considered buildings by ArmA, and as a result, their Position and Direction are NOT globally transmitted to all clients when built.  In other words, you might build a perfectly straight line of wire barricades and then be horrified when tanks roll right through them.  That's because the only position other clients receive is the initial placement of the objects.

Now you might wonder how I made the base buildings "grow" and collapse when they die--a lot of scripting and hacking around that limitation which basically boils down to client-side buildings + killed evenhandlers to link all buildings on all clients.

I'll be adding a new group list to the status list that will enable you to track your group units easily and disband those who you don't want anymore.  I'll eventually put in a soldier cam as well.

Now as for having issues guarding territories--it's always going to be a battle.  If you're playing with fewer than 12 people on your team, it'll be harder, because AI aren't that bright about it.  But you need to see the strategy.

First - Cap closest towns to you for resources.  Your main base will be the center of defense operations for those territories.  Assign other teammates to keep AI there.

Second - Look on the map for natural AI pathfinding bottlenecks and choose a territory just past it.  Get an ammo truck there and cap it for a forward base.  This new base will be your center of operations for territories on this side of the bottleneck.

You'll also want a forward base in other remote areas, but not too many, of course.  If you have to choose, always put a forward base in a territory with Energy as the resource, since energy determines building speed, and isn't necessary for more advanced vehicles.

Now build plenty of defenses at the forward bases and keep them safe until they get to level 4 so you can roll out the heavy armor.

One other thing--when you're talking about having issues guarding an areas because the enemy can keep pumping out heavy armor, I have to ask--where are you located and does the enemy have a Level 4 forward base nearby?  If they do, then you made a mistake trying to establish a base there without first destroying their forward base.  If you destroy their forward base, then their tanks have to come all the way from their main base and then you'll have more time to establish your own defenses.

What I'm trying to say is--when the other team can pump out heavy armor and air units, it means you haven't been doing a good job at keeping their refineries down.

Last night when we played the North vs South version, we actually created a noose of territories that we tightened around the Blufor team until all they had left was the airport.  First, we established refineries in our own territories, then destroyed a forward base of theirs and established our own.  From there, it took them a long time to reach our FB with their armor so it was able to level up.  Then we built Strykers, etc. to guard it and sent out repair trucks to take nearby resources. Even though they kept destroying our refineries, our forward base established a strong presence and we could send out tanks from there to guard our refineries.  After that, we crept north until they had nothing.

Okay, this is a bit long, but what I'm saying is, you already have the tools to play, you just need to analyze the situation and realize it.  TBH, static MG's and such aren't going to do much, especially when a sniper could take them out easily.  Having armored units guard is much more effective.

Aaaaanyway--last night we played some great games.  We had around 40 people--probably would have gotten more, but the server kept disappearing from the browser list, dammit!  Many of us had over 30 AI and no lag.  It was AWESOME!  ArmA like it's meant to be played.

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More Ideas

1. Tactical Points. The more energy = the more tactical points.

2. Tactical Points can call in artillery. (Field Guns, Later on: Tomohawks, Nukes, Paradropped units over enemy territory, paradropped supplys with map-click.) Tactical Armaments would have a timer that the commander could see, and it would go down as if it were a vehicle building. Once Timer reaches 0, the commander can use it.

3. Bring 3rd person up in MCU. Even if disabled in game. Hard to preview buildings in servers with no 3rd person. MCU 3rd person should always be enabled. (Suggested by player in a UK server)

4. Help menu: Pictures? Beginner Menu/Intermediate Menu/Expert Menu?

I say the 3 menus because some people don't even know their left from right and when they start playing the complex world of RTS their little minds explode and just go blowing stuff up, or get bored. I would like to educate even the retarded and have good games every-time. If need-be... I can do the pictures if you provide the words, otherwise idk.. I just thought illistrations would suit well for super beginners + strategy's for expert would suit well as well.

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I think something that could be of use would be encampments - I would have called them Forward operating bases but unfortunately, you already have those in the game. Anyhow, you could call them whatever you wish. These encampments could be made the same way the current ones are - with a truck - difference being, they would not require a ressource point.

You could use them to stage attacks from behind enemy lines and/or ressuply helicopters. They could serve as respawn points and also give people the option of spawning SF units.

You could limit them to the number of energy points a team has. Selecting them as a respawn location under the current system would list them as:

Forward Operations Camp EF-45(that being their position on the map.

Any idea if this is at all possible? It would give a more prominent role to the infantry, which is currently very limited.

Could make them look like this, too:

newbitmapimage2yu6.jpg

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I'm not sure I want to alter the core gameplay too much.  Infantry were actually very effective in one mission last night.  Someone set up AI MG and AT soldiers along the corridor from Dolores to Ortego and they took out several of our trucks moving forward to cap.  I finally had to take a squad in to wipe them out.

Also, a squad of AT infantry single-handedly held off a wave of 3 BMP's from an enemy FB.  It isn't that their roles are limited, it's just that few people are trying to use them.  Build an MH-6 or another transport chopper and take a load of them to enemy-held areas, and you can do some serious damage.  Problem is, most people are not patient enough--myself included.  biggrin_o.gif

But I always use infantry plus armor to hold forward bases.

Also, I'm making it so Level 1 forward bases have infantry available right away so as to increase their roles.

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possable to a make a 3-4 sided version

RTS/CTI needs to expand with ArmA 3-4 sides would be sweet notworthy.gif

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possable to a make a 3-4 sided version

RTS/CTI needs to expand with ArmA 3-4 sides would be sweet notworthy.gif

Oh man, an independent side would rule. Maybe they would have different objectives, such as holding at least _% of the map for a certain amount of time.

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I scripted RTS to allow for a third side to be plugged in later, but haven't made a decision if/when I'll implement it yet.

There was a 3-way RTS-3 that MrZig and Korax patched together which worked fairly well.  If a side lost their base, they became rogues without a base and spawned at random locations.  It was interesting...

BTW a 4-sided wouldn't work well since civilians are viewed as neutral to AI, and if you join them to another side, i.e. Resistance, then they would be friendly to that team. Also, you'll achieve rogue status from killing them. So Civ's just don't work well.

BTW I updated RTS-4 to Beta02B along with several fixes/additions.  You can see those and the new download link in the first post.

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could you make it the entire island one side of island seems a little small when your use to HUGE biggrin_o.gifyay.gif

good Job !!!!

ill pop in for a game again sometime soon notworthy.gif

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Hi KaRRiLLion. Thnx for the Job! Good work! We like it too much!

So....

I think we have a big problem with aviation... becouse, player (in this 1.05 version) dont have a chanse to destroy enemy planes witch Shilka, or Strela...

Im usually play witch 25-30 bots in my squad, and ofcourse no one can swhoot to a plane when it fly low and slow. And if I have a Shilka in squad, they cant shoot to plane too. And What we can do its a just use our rifles...  pistols.gif  or pistols...

P.S. Sorry for my english.

P.S.2: I would happy to meet in deseret witch enemy 4 playrs Vs 4 players witch 30 bots in each leader has. :-) It will be beautifful!

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BTW I updated RTS-4 to Beta02B along with several fixes/additions.  You can see those and the new download link in the first post.

You shure is that link is to ne Beta02B files?

Looks like old version beta02.

Check PLZ

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D'oh. I forgot to put the "b" in the link. Link is now pointing to beta 2B.

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Kar i noticed when i disconnect due to crash or freeze (i must thanks@ATI4handles leak)

and when i reconnect into same slot then i still control my old AI

BUT AI looses theirs "original" orders and follows me to default formation

plus i dont see theirs numbers anymore on map

also i wonder if it's possible when someone disconnect to "transfer" AI control to server with "original" orders kept in place (after order like movement is done then they just stay in that area)

THEN after rejoining there will be option "RE-INIT" AI control which will transfer/update the AI list and keep the old orders ...

also IF above possible then i wonder if possible to create feature to "RELEASE" AI but ! not delete (ideal to build NPC defence perimeters) ...

e.g. place several AT units at key rocks set them to guard area and release to avoid list clutter ...

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Dwarden, it would be very difficult to keep the AI with their original orders since the moment a player disconnects, the new AI leader will usually begin to hand out orders immediately. The reason the unit markers go away is because that script is executed when each unit is made. I'm afraid I don't have a good method for solving that without changing the script to exec differently.

I have considered a command system whereby a team commander can create AI, give them some patrol waypoints and then release them on their own. I'm afraid if I make that available to all team leaders then the server will be flooded with tons of independent AI and make the thing unplayable.

Problem is, I have a lot of other stuff to edit not to mention real life to attend to, so it may suffer a wait on some of that.

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ok it's fine smile_o.gif bugs first features then lol smile_o.gif

btw. i played that Evolution COOP and i really like "ranking" system and it's ability to remember players stats even after disco/reconnect ...

maybe some sort of "team usefulnes" points ... e.g. for transporting troops, capturing areas, killing enemies etc ...

to avoid full mess by nubs ...

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Yes, I'd like to come up with a sort of ranking system to display things like that at the outro.

Player whose squad (including AI) captured most town, got the most kills, etc. Only problem is, I'm not sure if kills by AI are tracked without attaching killed EH's to everything. It could get too messy to track some of that stuff though.

I would like to use something like that, however, to determine which players gain access to other features during the game. For example, your squad captures X number of towns, then you have the option to create independent squads like we spoke of above, or you gain ability to spawn an entire group in a short period of time, etc. Sort of to reward players who contribute to the team effort more than others.

And the Rambos would get rewarded with more expensive vehicles and inability to build anything. ;P

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Rambos? Sometimes i end up having to 'rambo' cause my team doesnt support me :P or people are unwilling for me to transport them :P

Maybe more expensive stuff for people who don't do much at all :P

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Just because you strike out to take territories, etc. on your own doesn't mean you're a Rambo--I'm talking about someone who constantly builds choppers and tries to destroy the enemy base, etc without support but doesn't do a thing to help keep the team's territories.

Some of it is hard to quantify anyway. RTS-3 had a system called XP - experience points that you earned for capping territories and other tasks to keep the war engine going, but I never implemented the rewards for it because I got burned out by version 1.52.

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Guys, we have some one Big problem: its a unlimmited vehicles per side... sad_o.gif

I like system with "money" like in MFCTI.... and this is a limitation of units for each squad.

You dont shot enemy or lost too much soldiers - you cannot bye vehicles... or soldiers. And people who do this well, cen bye everything: tanks, chopters e.t.c.

Mayby you KaRRiLLian can realise some system witch some points. It Will be very usefull, and make side balance more interesting.

And this system help players to stick together... becouse if you have a good team, you loose less units! Just think about it.

and, waht is about limit (per side) to 2 planes? or make a lot of time to build 1 plane (like 10-15 min. real time!!!wink_o.gif

thnx for all

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what about having mobile spawn points for infantry, like apc or truck, so they could be useful offensivly. You could have limits like an apc cpuld have have only 6 spawned people at a time running around, where a truck could handle more.

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Sukhoi, this is why your team must constantly attack the enemy territories and resources.

In RTS-3 and CTI where you earn money, halfway through the game, you normally have enough to build an army all your own.  In RTS-4 you can cripple the enemy supply lines by destroying their refineries, and the results are instant--they cannot build certain units anymore.

Think about it in terms of capcity.  In RTS-3 and CTI you continually earn money so even if you lose some territories, you'll still have plenty of money to keep going.

In RTS-4 you must concentrat all your offense on the enemy territories--not their base, at least not until you've beaten them down to 3 or less territories.

Anyway, this mission is far more strategic than RTS-3 ever was, simply because it relies on a supply model.  No longer can you run freely in a fast motorcycle or chopper to capture territories--instead you must do it with supply convoys.  I think the depth works much better there.

That said, yes, I agree the heavy jets and choppers should take longer to make.  At the same time, human players can easily defend against them with 2 people and AA launchers in a strategic position.

@Helltoupe - The forward bases do exactly what you want but better. I'll soon be adding in the ability to create a full squad + transportation so you can take them wherever you want. That would be virtually the same as what you're thinking because a forward base already spawns you deeper into enemy territory and you can build AI immediately after making one--in Beta02 at least.

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