optional alternative flight model

[whisper 0]

to 1.)

Yes, i see now atm (friday, 16 o'clock GMT) 6 server with more that 20 people. Only one of this has more that 50 people.

Sorry, ehmm but is this population to other new games?

to 2.)

LOL i just say, it is more fun for some people to play the OFP FM.

I can repat myself, i can fly with a stick, i just like to have a optional alternative flight model, simular to OFP which i can pick in the addon config.

No big deal.

And OFP has never been higher in terms of population. This will not "save the game from doom" because of billions of players that are taken away from ArmA by its FM.

2) ArmA flying IS fun. Provided you learn how to, it is definitely fun.

And your request can be a big deal, depending on development time that should be put elsewhere, tbh. We still don't have dedicated linux, for example.

[DVD 0]

And your request can be a big deal, depending on development time that should be put elsewhere, tbh. We still don't have dedicated linux, for example.

@all superpilots

ArmA is a game, if i like to fly a simulation i buy Falcon 4.0 or buy me VBS2.. thx for your help.

@ whisper

For me... after i inst. the 1.05 and i saw that all my weapons configs were toast, i thought "omg, damn i need to write all this again".

But it was just one look in the new weapons.bin to find out they added a new rifle classname.

So things can be fixed fast, some not, but are we developer of ArmA? no? .. and so i wait for an answer by BI.

With an SDK for ArmA, i would create my own FM, np.

But in there is no SDK, so what options do i have?

[Bingo 0]

I guess it´s simply impossible engine-wise as the new flightmodel not just only is defined by the addon used but also the physics compartement of the engine itself is very different now. That´s why i think it´s not possible to have both flightmodels in one engine at the same time.

This is the correct motorcycle.

I have no affiliation whatsoever with the developers of this game, but I am a software engineer myself and the OP's request is not worth the time and effort. There are many things to consider:

1) As pointed out above, an engine is designed around several component parts that all work together in harmony. Every thing the player does is sent to that game engine and that's where all the wonderful calcs happen. After a pissload of clock cycles later, your chopper nudges a bit to the left/right/in to the side of a house, or whatever you asked it to do. To have two "versions" of the the possible outcome, introduces an extra layer of complexity, and therefore:

2) ... a potential unfairness factor. The engine, due to no fault of it's own, might favor one method over the other (your chopper, on v2 turns slightly faster than V1), and with this layer of complexity we also have...

3) ... a bug testers nightmare. Now, on top of the usual suspects when submitting error-reports, we also have to take in to consideration which helicopter control method you're using.

If I were project managing this, I'd say "no way".

Just my 2c

[Ruckus 0]

You can't fly a chopper good, with keyboard and mouse.

But like i said in my 1st post...

I don't like to talk about pro and contra of the new one.

Actually I beg to differ....I have no problems with flying the chopper with a mouse and keyboard. There are many people who have no problems with this. It just takes a little practice as this model allows roll and pitch control that is alot different than OFP models

[peterj 0]

@all superpilots

ArmA is a game, if i like to fly a simulation i buy Falcon 4.0 or buy me VBS2.. thx for your help.

ArmA is a combat simulator. If I wanted arcade I would get Battle Field 2

Personally I'd like to see a realistic flight model without artificial stability, the problem is that it would be very hard to fly with mouse and keyboard, the path they're going now works.

[DVD 0]

peterj

I dont want arcade, just OFP2.

OFP was a more realistic game than BF2 and co. A perfect mix of gameplay and a sim.

You may try it out.

[wamingo 1]

sorry to go OT, but... oi! what is this?

at 1:20-1:30 in this video you can see a tree swaying dramatically as the helicopter gets near it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT6j-2aBoVw

Or are my eyes decieving me?

I definitely can't reproduce that no matter what wind or weather or helicopter I put on.

Did this work in 1.02?

[Maddmatt 1]

sorry to go OT, but... oi! what is this?

at 1:20-1:30 in this video you can see a tree swaying dramatically as the helicopter gets near it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT6j-2aBoVw

Or are my eyes decieving me?

I definitely can't reproduce that no matter what wind or weather or helicopter I put on.

Did this work in 1.02?

It was a feature that was in OFP:Elite on XBOX, and I'm sure I saw it in early ArmA screens. Maybe it's a bug that stops it from working.

Back on topic: It will take like 20 minutes to get used to the ArmA flight model. You don't need a joystick, just some damn patience. You wont get the old flight model back, it's a waste of programming time and the old flight model sucks in comparison to the one in ArmA anyway.

[max power 21]

Agree 100%. It's not going to happen so just get used to the new one.

[DVD 0]

@Maddmatt

I have the cz version and the german version.

So i spendet more than 20min already.

And it is not that i hate the ArmA FM, i just ask for a alternative, but you are not able to get it?!

[rundll.exe 12]

lol DVD think of what youve been asking when you go sleep, It doesnt make sense

I perfectly understand all the reactions here: Why should BIS waste time on another FM, while there are enough things to work on?

Be honest: You find it to difficult to fly atm, and you want choppers to be killer machines like in OFP.

But whats the point? In MP the FM equal for everyone, you just need to learn to use it.

[william1 0]

the choppers flight model is a pain in the as ! i can't hit a cow at two meters of distance lol and i always ended crashing in any hill , it is not fair !

[DVD 0]

@rundll

Or may i should stop waisting my time on this game, like Cleanrock.

[wamingo 1]

It was previously discussed that the pivot for rolling was at the rotor or even above the rotor. Anyone remember the consensus for this? Is the center as it should be? Because, if anything, that is what makes the FM difficult to master.

[4 IN 1 0]

what i see the problems are:

increase the pitch rate;

increase the collective rate(i mean really, who would like to fly a chopper with NO POWER at all):

rudder control still not too realistic(no big deal just increaase slighty over high speed)

correct the roll to picth down problem(i dunno how to put it, but most ppl should know what i mean)

if all these problem cracked down then we might find ourself with a perfect FM(for chopper, while for harrier, the 1.02 chopper FM seems to be realistic enought for it, but this is too much to ask for)

oh and may i be a bit OT here, driving a car aint that bad at all too, but i think there will be better not to auto center when using mouse(i mean when you turn left, you point to mouse to left, and the wheel keep turning to left instead of turning back to straight line)

[shadow 6]

the choppers flight model is a pain in the as ! i can't hit a cow at two meters of distance lol and i always ended crashing in any hill , it is not fair !

I'm not surprised if you're used to games playing out like your avatar (no pun intended)

Seriously, I've seen time and time again people over-compensating when flying helos. The key is to think ahead but with a calm hand on the stick/mouse/keyboard. The helicopters only do what you ask them to do. Nothing more, nothing less, they just respond a little later down the road.

Adding the old FM is a no-go unless we want to loose the new (and improved) FM as Bals said.

[4 IN 1 0]

the choppers flight model is a pain in the as ! i can't hit a cow at two meters of distance lol and i always ended crashing in any hill , it is not fair !

I'm not surprised if you're used to games playing out like your avatar (no pun intended)

Seriously, I've seen time and time again people over-compensating when flying helos. The key is to think ahead but with a calm hand on the stick/mouse/keyboard. The helicopters only do what you ask them to do. Nothing more, nothing less, they just respond a little later down the road.

Adding the old FM is a no-go unless we want to loose the new (and improved) FM as Bals said.

yeah i guess BI should use to time to crack down most major issus instead of putting 2 FM just for 1 chopper into the game

[frederf 0]

It is my opinion that the current ArmA method of flying helicopters is "easy mode." Never the less, anything that divides the playerbase of a game that really needs unification is bad. I understand the virtues of choice, but I can also see the repercussions of a double standard in flight.

I guess it comes down to my personal belief that you'd have to be on crack to want the old OFP style back at all. The new way is flawed but a far superior foundation for immersive, challenging, and rewarding play. Similarly I would never attempt to fly (at least in MP) without a 4 axis joystick.

I think one of the bigger issues is how radical our control inputs are compared to real life. If joystick linearity along with the current sensitivity, you could have smooth control inputs unlike our current gamey jerks.

[Maddmatt 1]

...

If you would really give up on this game just because you want a stupid flight model back, then goodbye - because it's not going to happen.

Just get used to it. There is no point having the old flight model.

[memnoch 0]

2) Sorry to look big headed, but it's really sad that people seem completely unable to adapt to a new game (or too lazy to do so).

Moreover when the differences are really that little between both FMs. ArmA is just slightly harder, nothing more.

Totally agree with you. I for one hope that BI doesn't cave in and pander to the instant gratification monkeys out there that need it all, RIGHT NOW, and have no intention of practising offline. To be honest I can do without those kinds of players and if that means they stop playing then so be it. It's annoying enough now when someone takes a chopper and flies it straight in to a hill, usually with a full load as well. The best servers I have played on have enforced that pilots only can fly but even then you get people who are absolutely terrible. Imagiine how much worse it would be if just anyone could fly them!?

[memnoch 0]

the choppers flight model is a pain in the as ! i can't hit a cow at two meters of distance lol and i always ended crashing in any hill , it is not fair !

It really isn't difficult to master at all. I find it a joy to fly and I'm by no means a flight sim junkie. Often if I decide to play air taxi in Co-op I will be congratulated by at least someone for my skills. I suspect that some, or perhaps even most, of the people complaining the loudest about the FM wish to be some kind of angel of death, raining destruction from above with impunity and find that it isn't that easy for them so they feel cheated. All it takes is a Stinger and you guys are toast. Just remember that!

...

If you would really give up on this game just because you want a stupid flight model back, then goodbye - because it's not going to happen.

Hurrah for that. And also there are lots of other things to do in ArmA other than fly choppers. If they give up on the game just because they can't fly well then perhaps they should go back to BF2/BF2142?

[twisted 128]

1.05 is best flight expeirence i had in a game.

[KJAM 0]

the choppers flight model is a pain in the as ! i can't hit a cow at two meters of distance lol and i always ended crashing in any hill , it is not fair !

I'm not surprised if you're used to games playing out like your avatar (no pun intended)

Seriously, I've seen time and time again people over-compensating when flying helos. The key is to think ahead but with a calm hand on the stick/mouse/keyboard. The helicopters only do what you ask them to do. Nothing more, nothing less, they just respond a little later down the road.

Adding the old FM is a no-go unless we want to loose the new (and improved) FM as Bals said.

Agreed, to be good at the new flight model all you need is practise a few hours. When I first tried it i thought I'd never be able to fly but after a few hours of practise I got the hang of it.

I actually now prefer the new flight model.

[DVD 0]

...

If you would really give up on this game just because you want a stupid flight model back, then goodbye - because it's not going to happen.

Just get used to it. There is no point having the old flight model.

LOL 4 pages and you can't get the point.

Your one of these fanboys, who all the time think someone will shit on BI, only because he want some additional stuff, for more fun in the game?

Well, here some movies n'joy.

MK19

At4

Res troops

crCTI untis & buildings

A poor community is this.

[shadow 6]

I think the current FM is a nice balance between combat effectiveness and useability.

Helicopters are not super-weapons on the battlefield when they are on their own, they just take most of the credit for armour-kills but that again is thanks to some other recon-element that told them where the targets are and what the opposition and terrain is like. In OFP anyone could fly 20 meters off the deck and raise hell on any opposition because it was so easy to fly and aim the helicopter that you didnt need to pre-plan your flight. Keep in mind that when you fly helicopters you fly something that by itself is not meant to get off the ground. When you fly a helicopter you fight all the laws of physics at the same time. Thats why a helicopter can be so versatile, but ofcourse it comes with a prize: the challenge of flying.

Doesnt it feel good when a plan comes together and you're the hero of the day for saving an entire squad's hind and you had to work for it at the same time?  

Quote[/b] ]LOL 4 pages and you can't get the point.

What there is to understand is that what you're asking has a very high price. Something it appears more than 50% in this thread is not willing to pay. The removal of the current flight-model in favour of the old.