The next step in gaming should not be graphics...

[horrgakx 1]

Reading some of the posts on here about buggy AI and making some posts of my own on the subject, it is clear that certainly this game is seriously deprived of artificial intelligence and has way too many AI bugs.

I mean, this game is 6 years on from the prequel 'Operation Flashpoint' - which I played to death and had all the add-ons. Back then it was pretty good, but the AI shows no sign of deveopment in those years to Armoured Assault today.

Graphics have taken a HUUUGE leap in that time, DX10 and the forthcoming Crysis prove that. However, no matter how pretty the game is, AI should be now a priority as it spoils the whole experience completely.

What do you think?

Dave

[maddogx 13]

You're right, AI should be a priority.

But you can't deny that the AI has been improved since OFP. Taking cover, flanking etc. It could be better of course, but creating a truly intelligent AI isn't exactly easy.

[horrgakx 1]

Not tried flanking, but as for taking cover that has to be a joke, it just doesn't work. Same with ordering AI to get to a waypoint - in the mission where it is dark and your team has to blow up 2 trucks, my man ran straight through the enemy base when I ordered him on a parallel course.

[CG Man 0]

They could of used a whole second cpu core for the Ai nearly all serious gamers have dual core now, I don't but will get one when needed. No obvious Ai changes in Arma at least not 4yrs worth of Ai programing practise evident in ArmA. I't will be great when the bugs are out though.

These guys have got to worry about OFP  2  being created by the dreaded Codemasters that will be comming out and if the Ai is any better were all gonna move to that so I hope they bring out the rest of the ArmaA content for free before they start with paid addons content that should be already here.

Me and the guys are completley replacing the sound in Arma I have 3 months knowlege of sound editing yet I'm able to offer far better vehicle and gun sounds to the Arma modders. If I can find these sounds why could'nt they. yep the sound engine is good but the M4  sounds like someone flicking a ruler. They could'nt be bovered to go to a rifle range and record these sounds.

It cost me hundred and fifty pounds to buy a thousand  professionaly recorded sounds  Arma has  around three good sounds thats how much pride and faith they have in ArmA.

[Straw Dog 0]

Yes, games have shifted focus in that area. It's no surprise i find myself playing old school games more often these days. The bling factor will always be the big seller i'm afraid. Just take a look at the all "next gen" game announcements everywhere. "Ooh, now we can fart on a mosquito and watch how his tiny limbs gently sways in the turbulence thanks to dx10".

With that said, BIS is one of the "good guys" in my book.

[Fred DM 0]

graphics are important to me. nothing kills immersion more quickly than bad looks. fortunately, ArmA looks very good, even on mid-settings.

i agree with the AI behind less than perfect. in fact, Far Cry still sems to have the best AI. flanking does work, but many of the more trivial things don't: take driving in formation from waypoint to waypoint for example: not only do they often refuse to go through certain passages, they also stop every few meters, drive a few meters back and forth, then continue. or a Stryker that takes several minutes to try and find a route around a few bushes, instead of just rolling over them. or the choppers crashing into trees and mountainsides.

[GAU-8 0]

i was completely happy with OFP graphics as well. no need to have touched it.

it lacked enough "OOOH!" to detract from the "gamers" but had all the angles, and basics covered for open ranged warfare for us SIM and military buffs. it was the ONLY sim i ever experienced that made me feel actually "outside". not playing in a "boxed in" environment like the COD's,farcry GR/GRAW.. and im not talking about the layout, i mean an "outside" environment, like i wasnt on a computer. i cant code, but i know THEY can, so i am a little upset that it feels like a "prettied up" version of OFP, with the same old outdated meat, (A.I.) but dressed up in a newly labeled consumable can. -and a freshly scribbled in expiration date.

i like fresh meat, not left over t.v. dinners from years ago. but, i AM enjoying AA for what it is, but time will tell if they are paying attention to whats important.

[Possessed 0]

...take driving in formation from waypoint to waypoint for example: not only do they often refuse to go through certain passages, they also stop every few meters, drive a few meters back and forth, then continue. or a Stryker that takes several minutes to try and find a route around a few bushes, instead of just rolling over them. or the choppers crashing into trees and mountainsides.

In the stream of countless OFP patches we saw patches which fixed AI to drive very well. Some patches broke the AI driving capabilities so bad that the car was always off the road and driving 12 oclock meant driving 01 first, stopping then driving 11oclock stopping etc. Fortunately in 1.96 the AI driving is on good level.

Its a shame that AI driving is so bad in ArmA. BUT:At least tank drivers follow tank commander orders now! It seems that tank driver AI does not use his I at all

[CsonkaPityu 0]

Guys this game has been developed for a year, maybe a year and a half.

Quit with the 4/6 years thing. It's not like after the release of CWC Marek Spanel sat down and said: Our next project is Armed Assault! Get to work!

ArmA's AI is a lot smarter then most scripted AI, it's just that it looks very clumsy because of the animations robotic nature.

Maybe BIS should start from the ground up when they make Game 2's Infantry AI, give them their own set of fluid animations that make them look more real but, the basics are already there the AI just needs to market itself better.

[sirex 0]

They could of used a whole second cpu core for the Ai

i actually really like this idea.

i wouldnt be suprise if AI gets its own processor unit as physics has

[horrgakx 1]

> Quit with the 4/6 years thing.

I'm sorry but that is a valid point. There has been a large gap between releases - and anyway, if virtually no development has been done or if they've only spent a short time on it then that is actually worse.

Dave

[baddo 0]

but the AI shows no sign of deveopment in those years to Armoured Assault today

Hi

I have to disagree with you. There is very noticeable difference between the A.I. in Operation Flashpoint and the A.I. in Armed Assault.

My observations this far:

- A.I. flanks more agressively. I have many times been suprised of the direction the A.I. soldiers are approaching me. They often go behind my back, compared to the direction I first saw them. This leads to much more exciting battles as I have to really watch my back and make sure I still have a way out if such need arises.

- A.I. picks up ammunition from dead bodies without external help. Did you see them doing that in Operation Flashpoint right out of the box? I didn't.

- A.I. uses buildings more actively. In Operation Flashpoint it was possible that an A.I. unit would enter a building without external help but it was very rare as I remember it. In Armed Assault it has happened often during the one month I have had the game. Now I can't feel safe in buildings anymore, like I did in Operation Flashpoint.

I am sure this list isn't all because I have played Armed Assault relatively little and there is much more to explore and test. But it shows you some points were there has definitely been improvement over Operation Flashpoint.

Best Regards,

Baddo

[GAU-8 0]

exactly!

its not the initial time spent on arma.."for several years/right after OFP" as people think we are saying .its the GAP of time between the two, that could have had the clunky anims, and AI taken care of.

i do agree, that it has been updated, but there are some quirks that look or feel the same as previous..

[maruk 80]

I am sure this list isn't all because I have played Armed Assault relatively little and there is much more to explore and test. But it shows you some points were there has definitely been improvement over Operation Flashpoint.

Thanks Baddo. You're probably the first one who noticed of the advancements (judging from feedback fro gamers and also game journalists so far) .

I may add few other things that AI now does (and didn't in OFP):

- leap frogging

- taking cover more actively (also for reloading) in combat

We put a lot of effort to AI in ArmA and made singificant progress in that area. Of course, there's a lot that can be improved, as always. But it truly shocks me to see repeated often that the AI in ArmA is the same or even worse than in OFP.

[dmarkwick 261]

ArmA, as in OFP, is really only the base product from which the community will eventually turn into a highly polished and competent game. The improvements for ArmA include improved AI scripting opportunities, so pretty soon some coders who know their onions will be writing new AI routines that will truly knock our socks off as far as tactics and strategies go.

The AI is much improved but as always it's the very small things that make a huge difference, for example if the AI had a more immediate and energetic "take cover" routine built into AI then things would dramatically change in every encounter.

[horrgakx 1]

I think I must be simply blinded by the occasional bug in that case, nothing worse than getting a good way into a mission and having to reload/restart because of daft little problems.

I hope it is an ongoing development, I'm seriously enjoying this at the moment, I'll try to be more tolerant.

[Balschoiw 0]

I was playing around with the FSM editor and opened the BIS FSM patterns for infantry units. What I found is that their variety of actions and things like running for cover before doing a reload were integrated.

While editing a mission I am currently working on I found a lot of new AI behaviours that just don´t get obvious if you have a direct infantry standoff 300m away. In cramped areas the AI makes your day a hard one and the search patterns also seem to be altered compared to OFP. Not to speak of the "guarded by" and "seized by" triggers that will send the AI on some funky missions.

I got killed more than once by guys who broke from their formation and found a way to get past me without having a chance to notice them. Also, they do search for cover in shootouts, they even hide behind trees.

To see no changes or to claim that they are worse than in OFP

is just baffling to me.

Furthermore as the FSM files are open to edit and not hardcoded anymore everyone can setup his own AI patterns and behaviours with the FSM editor.

[Fred DM 0]

i agree that in (infantry) combat the AI is better than in OpF, things like flanking and using grenade launchers (effectively) are awesome and cannot be found in any other military game (in many games, the AI uses grenade launchers like a rifle; imagine the results).

it's the more basic things that the AI looks clumsy in. like the driving that i have mentioned. i mean, it usually does work (eventually) to get an AI unit from waypoint A to B, but it just isn't fluid, and sometimes you have to wait for it to figure out a way for minutes, even though i enabled 4x time fast forward.

[Blanco 0]

Arma AI is better in many ways imo.

+ The first thing I noticed was that enemies who are really close will be priority, a huge difference compared to OFP.

+ Second, they try to find cover...

- but they don't fire very often from there. I'm a bit dissapointed that Ai can't fire over sandbags and such, it would be so much better. I really really really hope they can fix it.

+ Third, the strafing tactics of the UH-60 with the 2 gatlings on each side are amazing. I had lots of fun with them, but it's a pitty that AI machinegunners don't fire back, they aim, but I'v never seen them firing.

+ In Arma, I never saw choppers collide with eachother. Do you remember OFP?

+ Fourth, since 1.05 machinegunners can be extremly agressive, sometimes it looks like they go in berzerk mode, very cool.

+ Ai Behaviour against snipers is much better in 1.05. Just replay one of the sniper missions in the campaign and you will notice that you can't snipe a whole squad anymore from one position only.

- Single AI drivers are good imo, but once in group (in a convoy) it's horrible. even worse then OFP. It's a bit better in 1.05 but lots of things can be improved.

- Troops always walk in the middle of the street and it creates 2 problems: pedestrians got killed and AI drivers have lots of problems to avoid them.

- AI still fires at empty enemy vehicles. They keep firing at the vehicle even when the crew disembarks. Empty vehicles are not a threat, the crew are!

But I agree 100% with the threadstarter, Gaming industry in general should focus more on the AI, not the graphics.

[dmarkwick 261]

- AI still fires at empty enemy vehicles. They keep firing at the vehicle even when the crew disembarks. Empty vehicles are not a threat, the crew are!

If I can just pick up on this...

IMO this is good AI behaviour, disabling a potential threat is good. Also, the AI seems not to have "magic" knowledge that the vehicle is empty, it's like they don't know whether it's empty or not. Even if it is, better it's destroyed than someone get back into it.

[Blanco 0]

Hmm, the crew is firing upon them and they fire at the empty and damaged vehicle. Is that smart?

[Balschoiw 0]

I guess this shouldn´t be too hard to be fixed in one of the next patches.

[Sgt_Eversmann 1]

I was on ramadi, experimented abit, testing stuff, when I was behind a house.

I used 3rd person to look around the corner without being noticed (at least I thought that), a saboteur came nearer and nearer...I switched back to 1st person, preparing for shooting the saboteur when he came around.

for my surprise he did not.

I took a look a round the housecorner, and noticed a little "present" on the ground.

secs later: BOOOOOM

that saboteur wanted to blow me away with a satchel charge, and he was AI not human.

one of the moments I was really impressed

[Balschoiw 0]

Don´t want to turn down the fun, but they already did so in OFP

I have been blown to bits quite some times by a guy with a satchel.

BTW, does anyone know if they still ignite the satchel via radio ?

I guess they should use satchel-timer for that action by default as

it happened to me that I did not see him planting the device, but was then alerted by the beeping and took out the guy on his retreat. Would be nice if the satchel would still blow with the timer. Could cause some hectic and panic and unwanted firefights when leaving your cover

Guess I will add it to wishlist.

Edit: Done

[horrgakx 1]

I'll look out for those times the AI might shine, but on the whole I don't think that anyone would be able to say it works 100% of the time.  My experience with it is that although it might be good some of the time, it is sketchy most of the time and occasionally very bad.

Its a pity, the vastness and varietly of the game is jaw-dropping. AI should definatley receive a great deal of attention.