Newb helo pilot questions

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

Howdy, all.

I'm the clan leader for the Jackpine Savages. ArmA is the first game in years that I'm excited about enough to suggest to my guys that we may have found a spiritual home for the foreseeable future. I'm really looking forward to the possibility of getting in some organized competitive team play with this game. Heck, even if we never join a ladder or league I think we'll still have a lot of fun pubbing with this game.

Anyhow, I like to have a good idea about how all of the various vehicles and weapons work in any new game so I can plan our overall strategy based upon a realistic appraisal of the strengths and limitations of what we'll be working with. I generally try out every weapon at least for a while as part of my preparation for that role.

The last time we played a game as a clan that utilized transport helos was the Desert Combat mod for BF42. That was a fairly fast paced game to begin with. The BF42 engine also let a player decide when to pull the rip cord, so it was easy to do HALO jumps. The view distance was also limited with that engine, so it was generally easy to get high enough up into the haze that you couldn't be seen from the ground. Finally, most maps had helos that respawned in about 45 seconds. This combination of factors led us to develop a tactic for infantry insertion that was pretty effective.

We would load up a set of Blackhawks and/or Little Birds with an assault force and get some altitude while approaching the target. When we were within range, the fireteam or squad leader would call for a bail out. Everyone, including the pilots, would bail at once and start gliding towards their designated drop zones while the helos crashed well away from where we were actually headed.

We'd pop the rip cords as low to the ground as possible. Our best guys could time it so that they were actually below the roof line of a two story building before their chute opened. As guys died, the ones designated for continual assaults would spawn back by the helos and repeat the tactic.

This strategy gave us several benefits. First, it was pretty easy to achieve tactical surprise. Spotting guys who are gliding in from high up is a lot tougher than looking for helos or parachutes hanging in the sky. Second, it meant that our exposure to enemy fire while still in the sky was minimized to the greatest extent possible. Third, we got pretty good at pinpoint insertions so there was very little delay in getting organized once we had dropped on target.

OpFlash and ArmA obviously have very different characteristics. It looks like it's going to be much tougher to achieve the same level of tactical surprise. However, there's no denying the value of insertions via helo, so I want to learn what works and what doesn't.

I've only got the demo while I wait for an official English language release, so I'm obviously limited in what I can try out. I've watched dslyecxi's Little Bird insertion/extraction video on Google several times. I've also been practicing flying the Blackhawk and the Russian equivalent on the CTI map.

Let me say right now that I'm not a very good pilot. My questions are more about control systems and technique.

First, I'm using an old Microsoft Sidewinder joystick with the built-in slider, one hat switch, and 8 or 9 other buttons. I've set the slider for the throttle and the hat switch to the "look" commands. Primary and secondary fires are bound to the usual places. I haven't done anything else with the other buttons yet.

Please don't suggest getting another joystick that would let me do HOTAS. I don't fly enough to justify the cost. While it looks like TrackIR would be a nice addition to my rig, I'm also holding off on buying one for the time being.

Within these limitations, does this sound like an OK control arrangement? Should I forget about using the slider for the throttle and use the keyboard instead?

Just what is the best way to land? The flare technique that dslyecxi does so effortlessly in his training video is pretty tough to do when you don't know what you're doing.

Do I want to approach the drop zone under full power? Half? Something else?

Should I be losing altitude from 'way out with a nice long run to the DZ? That seems like it might be a good way to get an entire squad killed against good opponents.

If I'm coming in low and fast, how do I bleed off speed without losing altitude? If I try to flare, I end up high up, stationary, with my nose elevated so much I can't see where I'm supposed to land.

If I try to drop the throttle slowly while slowly transitioning from nose down to level, I take too long. I also generally end up pretty high, again making the chopper a fat, juicy target.

If I try just trying to hold the chopper level while dropping the chopper by reducing the throttle, I inevitably end up landing hard as I generally come down too fast. Also, I'm such a bad pilot that I almost always end up side slipping or drifting forward or back.

Another question that I've got is how to judge altitude, rate of climb or descent, and position with respect to the LZ when the nose is up. Do you pick a couple of landmarks on your way in and use those to help guide the final approach? Not let the nose get too high? Something else?

TIA for all the help that you can give me.

[4 IN 1 0]

first tip is to fire up the editor to get how to control of basic movement rgr, whats need to be notice and whats not to do

really there isnt many things the we could tell as it really depended on who is flying and how they fly

EDIT:dslyecxi's video have already covered most of the things, just look more closeily how he fly the LB

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

As I stated in my original post, I only have the demo at the moment. That means no editor, and only two helos to try flying. Besides, even if I had the editor I still wouldn't have the answers to my questions. Or would I?

So, what can I do with just the demo except keep flying?

[HotShot 0]

first tip is to fire up the editor to get how to control of basic movement

The Demo doesn't include the Editor

I too have an old Microsoft joystick (Sidewinder Precision 2) which seems to have a similiar set up as you (8 buttons, hat and throttle). Personally though I use the Keyboard and Mouse to fly. The joystick is alot easier to control helicopters in AA over Flashpoint, but I still find Keyboard/Mouse set up easier than Joystick. For me, this is how I do it (I too only have the Demo so we are using the same 'flight model', etc).

I use the Mouse to look around for when I want to land or scouting the LZ, and only use the Keyboard to fly. I have noticed that in AA the cockpit view is zoomed out more and this and more window space makes it easier to land in 1st person over Flashpoint I feel, and easier than using 3rd person I think too.

The helicopter takes longer to slow, so I always slow down quite a way before the LZ and then just come in at a steady speed (100 or so) and then slow further when very close. I also feel I need to lign up the LZ further out than in Flashpoint (rudders do less in AA).

So just make sure you are slowed and ligned up with the LZ far before you actually want to reach (like 2KM), using the Map to make sure you are on track then visuals when closer by. For me I have to have low view distance (600m), so I use the Map almost exclusivley for approaching the LZ, and then just go to cockpit view and look around using mouse and control the helicopter with keyboard when 200m or so.

Make sure you use the HUD! Look at if you are loosing height as sometimes I do and dont notice it until I see my HUD numbers counting down. If you are of height 20 or greater you should clear all the trees.

[Kirby 2]

I aint played ArmA (WellI have but it was a mess on this PC) but from OFP... Use thrid person (if you have difficulty set to allow this) if not try using free look with the mouse while flying with the stick so you can judge ground from side window, or the lower/floor sections of window if they are on the chopper you're flying.

Or drop untill you think you're close then throttle up and go down a tad slower on the last meter or so.

[Jack-UK 0]

Im not a very good pilot.. i use a keyboard and mouse hehe

But i can fly pretty well... landing is what i struggle with in ArmA (autohover = DEATH)

I can land ok but i can never get the chopper to hover without using autohover (which doesnt work properly IMO) and i end up having to quickly land to stop the chopper flying sideways into a building/tree/hill etc. which means i end up damaging the chopper slightly and then the fuel leaks out and it eventually explodes (though as i only have the demo... is that scripted into the CTI map?)

I can fly pretty well... i can do low flying in the Blackhawk (just above tree tops.. sometimes lower along roads but with limited success.. i dont have a LB in the demo ) MI17 i can handle quite well.. though its definately not very manouverable!

I use the mouse to lean forward/back for my velocity and for fast turns i use the mouse... I use X + C for rotating at slower speeds and at takeoff.

For landing it depends on my situation, if the LZ is hot i go in fast and then yank the nose up and balance out the speed.. I press Z till i get close to the ground then use Q to slow the decent.. takes practise to get that right...

Otherwise if the LZ is not hot i take my time, come in slowly and identify a good spot to land, then i balance out the chopper as much as possible (though i find this difficult in ArmA's flight model) and land slowly turning the engine off as soon as i touch ground in a controlled manner to stop it taking back off.

Cheers!

[mattxr 9]

i have demo and full game.. and flying is just the same. But its east anyways.. i always love to fly fly fly i just have trouble with the harrier because it seems when i turn i just loose loads of speed and stall and crash?

[icebreakr 3156]

I stopped using autohover a couple of weeks ago. Gaining height to loose speed is a no-go in a hostile area, not to mention that silly banking... without it its great, just make sure you practice flying for a few hours every few days

[ck-claw 1]

i have used my freedom 2.4 joystick and found it a bit too twitchy??

i'm using the 360 controller and found flying alot easier-think its down to personal choice though?

basically keep on practicing!!

[Maddmatt 1]

For me I have to have low view distance (600m), so I use the Map almost exclusivley for approaching the LZ, and then just go to cockpit view and look around using mouse and control the helicopter with keyboard when 200m or so.

The viewdistance setting in the demo does nothing, it stays at about 1k/2k no matter what you do. Does that seriously look like 600m to you?

[sbsmac 0]

Welcome to Armed Assault. If it's half the game OFP was I can promise that your squad is going to have a lot of fun. I'd highly recommend getting into a league - playing against an organised opponent really makes this game something special.

Quote[/b] ] When we were within range, the fireteam or squad leader would call for a bail out. .... We'd pop the rip cords as low to the ground as possible.

This is possible in Arma (and was in OFP) if the appropriate scripts have been used for the map. The default behaviour for the 'eject' action though is to open the parachute as soon as you leave the aircraft

Quote[/b] ]Just what is the best way to land? The flare technique that dslyecxi does so effortlessly in his training video is pretty tough to do when you don't know what you're doing.

I won't claim to be a great pilot but what seems to work best for me when trying to land from a low and fast approach is to take the throttle/collective right down to nothing. After a few seconds you need to start pitching up to maintain altitude and that will bleed off speed. After a few more seconds gradually bring the throttle/collective back up again to flare. Of course, you can use the auto-hover for a safe landing but I regard this as a bit of a cop-out

As others have said, you need to practice a lot (a good thing IMO) to get the hang of this. If you do get the full game, just set up a mission in the editor and practice trying to land on top of buildings or something similar. Another good way of getting the hang of the controls is to try following a ground vehicle around.

[HotShot 0]

For me I have to have low view distance (600m), so I use the Map almost exclusivley for approaching the LZ, and then just go to cockpit view and look around using mouse and control the helicopter with keyboard when 200m or so.

The viewdistance setting in the demo does nothing, it stays at about 1k/2k no matter what you do. Does that seriously look like 600m to you?

It DID, doesn't amymore! Talk about a placebo effect...

[Maddmatt 1]

It DID, doesn't amymore! Talk about a placebo effect...

LOL. At least when you buy the full game you wont be playing on a 600m viewdistance without realising that it can go higher .

[4 IN 1 0]

oh dear, i didnt have the demo, sorry my bad

in Arma keyborad/mouse way is a better choose for learning the characteristics of the FM in the game, and chopper flight need more plannings then many other games out there too, map study and a good reasonable viewdistance is very need for guiding yourself to the LZ, and distance that you will need for a nice flare (its not easy to have a 180 turn rapid insertion like in OFP now so the flare way is more useful), and notice every single possible enemy location, all these really time to gain experence

[Maddmatt 1]

oh dear, i didnt have the demo, sorry my bad

in Arma keyborad/mouse way is a better choose for learning the characteristics of the FM in the game, and chopper flight need more plannings then many other games out there too, map study and a good reasonable viewdistance is very need for guiding yourself to the LZ, and distance that you will need for a nice flare (its not easy to have a 180 turn rapid insertion like in OFP now so the flare way is more useful), and notice every single possible enemy location, all these really time to gain experence

If you have a joystick, there is no point using a keyboard/mouse. I flew the Blackhawk in the demo just fine with my joystick after a couple attempts.

[4 IN 1 0]

oh dear, i didnt have the demo, sorry my bad

in Arma keyborad/mouse way is a better choose for learning the characteristics of the FM in the game, and chopper flight need more plannings then many other games out there too, map study and a good reasonable viewdistance is very need for guiding yourself to the LZ, and distance that you will need for a nice flare (its not easy to have a 180 turn rapid insertion like in OFP now so the flare way is more useful), and notice every single possible enemy location, all these really time to gain experence

If you have a joystick, there is no point using a keyboard/mouse. I flew the Blackhawk in the demo just fine with my joystick after a couple attempts.

it is, yet whats bad on learning different way to controls? i was interested on having a 360 control pad(not really because of ArmA but will still fun to try), i myself have a joystick too but sometime i just didnt brother to touch it no matter how nice it is

[Maddmatt 1]

it is, yet whats bad on learning different way to controls? i was interested on having a 360 control pad(not really because of ArmA but will still fun to try), i myself have a joystick too but sometime i just didnt brother to touch it no matter how nice it is

Well it's more realistic to use a joystick. Also, why would you not want to use one? If you don't use your joystick then why waste the money on it in the first place?

[4 IN 1 0]

i dont know, maybe i just played a little bit too much FS and lockon, but thats far too OT here

[mattxr 9]

This is how i fly...

Joystick - Q and Z

those are the only buttons i ever use lol

[4 IN 1 0]

This is how i fly...

Joystick - Q and Z

those are the only buttons i ever use lol

lol me too m8, i hardly use the throttle on the stick

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

What about right and left rudder? Do you use the twist of your joystick, or assign left and right keys?

Thx again for everyone's tips.

[4 IN 1 0]

rudder is useless when at a higher speed(like 70,as IRL), the problem is that IRL under this speed the rudder have slightly more functionable then that in the game, but after some time of getting used to its stop affecting gameplay

[Maddmatt 1]

What about right and left rudder? Do you use the twist of your joystick, or assign left and right keys?

Thx again for everyone's tips.

I use the twist feature of my joystick. That's what it's meant for .

[kronzky 5]

Since a lot of people are still having problems getting the hang of flying choppers (myself included), I've set up a Wiki page for it.

Perhaps some of you more experienced pilots could post some introductory information there, regarding chopper control, tips on control setup and how to do certain procedures.

That way we'd have a good place to point people next time they're asking about how to control those choppers.

Thanks!

[max power 21]

I like that idea a lot!