Will we ever get proper Gun elevations

[Beagle 684]

OPF has become better and better with time, but there are still this annoying issues when commanding tanks.

1. APCs & AA are jumping when hit bi small arms fire

2. Drivers do what they want, if direction changes are ordered via Keybord

3. and last..but never least

The barrel elevation modelled in game has a incorrect downwards elevation. Should be between 5-10 degrees depending on Tank modell.

At present, there ist to much space between gun and chassis left.

4. Smoke grenade launchers....

[WKK Gimbal 0]

Smoke Grenades should be called Lag Grenades, 'cause that's all they do. They don't hide you from AI, they just cause lag

[Silencer 0]

they should add tear gas grenades or gas to make any soldier eyes red and blurry for minates.

people did report that the AL does get confused if they enter in the smoke.

[Damage Inc 0]

The smoke grenades are a special weapon in multiplayer. When you use them everybody gets lag and they can't shoot you

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Silencer @ Feb. 03 2002,18:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...to make any soldier eyes red and blurry for minates.<span id='postcolor'>

I know some other substance that has similiar effects.

[Enemy of the State 0]

The smokes on my screen are fine but when my men go in to it i can be right in front of them and they start saying WHERE ARE U and then they go mental until the smoke clears

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Silencer @ Feb. 03 2002,18:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">people did report that the AL does get confused if they enter in the smoke.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, I do.

Oh..... those aren't my initials? Never mind.

[Intruder 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. APCs & AA are jumping when hit bi small arms fire<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah I hate this bug

and a negative elelvation for the tank gun would come in handy when on high ground.

[Corp.Pihla 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Beagle @ Feb. 03 2002,08:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3. and last..but never least

The barrel elevation modelled in game has a incorrect downwards elevation. Should be between 5-10 degrees depending on Tank modell.

At present, there ist to much space between gun and chassis left.<span id='postcolor'>

Actualy in OFP the gun elevation are, in russian tanks, correrct...

About that 5- 10 degrees... In BMP-2 gun elevation are: -15 degrees and + 87degrees!!!

(Been there, done that...)

[Wobble 1]

dont forget the ANNYONG GODDAMN GUN SMOKE!

the tanks and APCs still fire black powder rounds apparentley.. giant plume of black and grey smoke billowing out of the barrel.. its retarded and you cant see yer round hit the target.. watch a video of any remotley modern tank firing.. there isnt much smoke at all.. just a very big but QUICK flash and a littl puff thats gone almost instantly.. there fir sure isnt enough to obscure the view of the gunner for several seconds like in the game.,

[Damage Inc 0]

I think they just made it that way to make it look cooler.

[Panzer Jaeger 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Feb. 04 2002,17:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont forget the ANNYONG GODDAMN GUN SMOKE!

the tanks and APCs still fire black powder rounds apparentley.. giant plume of black and grey smoke billowing out of the barrel..  its retarded and you cant see yer round hit the target..  watch a video of any remotley modern tank firing.. there isnt much smoke at all.. just a very big but QUICK flash and a littl puff thats gone almost instantly.. there fir sure isnt enough to obscure the view of the gunner for several seconds like in the game.,<span id='postcolor'>

When modern tank fires its canon it causes huge flash (sometimes as big as the tank or even bigger) for a ms or so. And it causes also large amount of smoke but wind clears it up fast.

Something interresting about tank canons. T-72's 125mm canon IS POSSIBLY lethal in 50 meter radius around tank. Also cartridge is thrown out of turret by the power of recoil (range about 20 meters). Pressure effect in front of barrel is lethal to 100 METERS!! Cartridge contains about 10 kg's of TNT...

And the elevation of T-72 is -6 to +14 degrees, while T-80 has -7 to +20 degrees. T-72's turret rotates at max. speed of 20 degrees/sec (T-80 24 deg./sec).

I think elevations in the OPF are pretty much accurate.

[Wobble 1]

there is almost no smoke.. there may be some DUST it kicks up off the ground but the firing itself isnt very smoke.. I wish I could find it but I did have a clip of the M1A1 firing.. you would see a GIANT flash and then a small tubular puff of grey smoke you puff out of the barrel.. and thats it..

[Corp.Pihla 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Feb. 05 2002,06:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">there is almost no smoke.. there may be some DUST it kicks up off the ground but the firing itself isnt very smoke.. I wish I could find it but I did have a clip of the M1A1 firing.. you would see a GIANT flash and then a small tubular puff of grey smoke you puff out of the barrel.. and thats it..<span id='postcolor'>

I don't know about Us guns. if they have invented powder that creates no smoke, but in Russian tanks there is actually SMOKE!!! If I find somewhere my photo collection, wich include BMP-2 firing, I'll send image where you can see the SMOKE.

And there is one thing that is more crutial than gun smoke is smoke trail from missiles...

For example: If there is infantry squad with AT4 in bushes and tank platoon attacks from open ground, the missile team is on flank. They launch first missile, destroy first tank, others might have not seen the missile, but if there were smoke trail from missile... BANG... the missile team would be history...

[Beagle 684]

Can confirm that, the Leopard II Gun produces a lot of smoke too, and remember, the M1a1's Gun is just a licensensed build of the same Gun.

[Panzer Jaeger 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Corp.Pihla @ Feb. 05 2002,11:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And there is one thing that is more crutial than gun smoke is smoke trail from missiles...

For example: If there is infantry squad with AT4 in bushes and tank platoon attacks from open ground, the missile team is on flank. They launch first missile, destroy first tank, others might have not seen the missile, but if there were smoke trail from missile... BANG... the missile team would be history...<span id='postcolor'>

One thing to add to this comment.

I believe modern tanks have self protection systems. I'm not talking about Reactive armour's but system, that empties WHOLE ammo filling to location that AT-missile came from. Only commander is able to over ride it. I think that would be a very unpleasant place to be...

Also modern tanks have missile warning systems, laser designator warning systems etc. They are more like computers on tracks. But still MAN (or woman) operates that system. No replacement for proper training...

[Frag Haus Capt Morgan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont forget the ANNYONG GODDAMN GUN SMOKE!

the tanks and APCs still fire black powder rounds apparentley.. giant plume of black and grey smoke billowing out of the barrel..  its retarded and you cant see yer round hit the target..  watch a video of any remotley modern tank firing.. there isnt much smoke at all..<span id='postcolor'>

Okay key word is modern. Trust me the m1x which is the model for the game is accuratte with smoke.

Altough I still want to know where the commanders mg is.

Standard on m1's. oh and by the way m2 or 60 doesn't matter but it should be there

Um and I agree the Two does not leave a heavy smoke trail and niether do alot of the othere rocket systems.

But rember it is just a game

ONE BAD ASS GAME AT THAT!

[Satchel 0]

Wobble´s correct,

modern MBT´s have smoke absorbers, the smoke is diffused and forced out of the gunbarrel with high pressure on most tanks, so it doesn´t obscure the line of sight to the target from the Gunners/TC´s positions and according optics. It is utmost important for the Gunner/Commander to verify whether a target has been hit or not, with smoke emissions like seen in Flashpoint this would be a impossible thing to do.

Visually it would look better too, you could actually see the round travel downrange...if there is one at all.......

If i feel the need for the realism department, especially tanks, i go with SB anyway. But at least fix the driving behaviour of tanks- standing on the brakes at 45mph will make the Abrams stop almost instantly in a matter of feet with it´s tail bouncing up, of course that would likely cause injuries, but it´s possible. In Flashpoint however braking distance is more like 50m from 25mph to 0mph....a joke for tracked vehicles, you can´t even stop rolling down a hill.

[Panzer Jaeger 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Satchel @ Feb. 06 2002,21:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If i feel the need for the realism department, especially tanks, i go with SB anyway. But at least fix the driving behaviour of tanks- standing on the brakes at 45mph will make the Abrams stop almost instantly in a matter of feet with it´s tail bouncing up, of course that would likely cause injuries, but it´s possible. In Flashpoint however braking distance is more like 50m from 25mph to 0mph....a joke for tracked vehicles, you can´t even stop rolling down a hill.<span id='postcolor'>

True!!!

When you hit the brakes in tracked vehicle IT STOPS!! If the tracks don't slip. When they do tank or apc is totally uncontrollable.

Few times my apc (MT-LB/V) didn't turn because tracks didn't get a grip (once in icy ground, once reversing in fine sand).

Another interresting thing with tracked vehicles on OPF are tracks it makes while turning from full speed. Tracks actually CROSS each other. Impossible!! Unless you remove your tracks.

And they (APC's and MBT's) lack climbing speed (power) to my experience. You'd be amazed where these things can go...

[S_Z 0]

I know OFP is not suppose do be a tank sim (have SB for that) but I would really like if some small things would be fixed like the thing Satchel and Panzer Jaeger said about the driving for example and I wouldn’t mind if the armor/damage part was simulated a bit better. I would also like to see that  “Drivers do what they want, if direction changes are ordered via Keyboard†problem to be fixed.

I have tried to make my own little tank battle in the mission editor but the fact that a tank shows up when its only about 500-600 meters away takes the fun away. The tanks(that are still alive) just end up almost running in to each other…and its not realistic, or fun to have a tank battle between tanks that are 5 meters away from each other…I guess that is a problem that cannot be solved

I really wish computers were more powerful so that we could have a tank game like SB looking like OFP

[Panzer Jaeger 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (S_Z @ Feb. 06 2002,22:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would also like to see that  “Drivers do what they want, if direction changes are ordered via Keyboard†problem to be fixed.

I have tried to make my own little tank battle in the mission editor but the fact that a tank shows up when its only about 500-600 meters away takes the fun away. The tanks(that are still alive) just end up almost running in to each other…and its not realistic, or fun to have a tank battle between tanks that are 5 meters away from each other…I guess that is a problem that cannot be solved <span id='postcolor'>

First, as a Former driver we were told that you keep on turning untill ordered otherwise. Also when said "forward" we drove forward untill said drive on your own. This little bug drives me crazy!! Chassis rotates wildly without destination...

But these distances remaind me of famous tank battle during WWII, The Kursk. Germans and Russian engaged on open ground with few batallions of tanks. Result was close range fight. Tanks actually collided with each others while there was huge cloud of dust in the battleground.

[PitViper 0]

a better damage model where specific parts of the objects take specific damage would drastically improve the game. This counts for buildings and all other vehicles as well...

[sn1per 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Feb. 07 2002,03:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a better damage model where specific parts of the objects take specific damage would drastically improve the game.  This counts for buildings and all other vehicles as well...<span id='postcolor'>

You're right. It would be great to immobilze tanks with lucky LAW/RPG shots and then finish them from flanks etc.

[Satchel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">True!!!

When you hit the brakes in tracked vehicle IT STOPS!! If the tracks don't slip. When they do tank or apc is totally uncontrollable.

Few times my apc (MT-LB/V) didn't turn because tracks didn't get a grip (once in icy ground, once reversing in fine sand).

Another interresting thing with tracked vehicles on OPF are tracks it makes while turning from full speed. Tracks actually CROSS each other. Impossible!! Unless you remove your tracks.

And they (APC's and MBT's) lack climbing speed (power) to my experience. You'd be amazed where these things can go...<span id='postcolor'>

I´m on an M577 TOC in the German Army, it climbs slopes where i wouldn´t go near with most cars, although it doesn´t look like it could with it´s hunchback, after all it´s basically a modified M113. When my driver pulls both "Wendebremsen" (Turning brakes on english?) it stops almost on a stamp. While having an exercise another TOC commander forget to secure his hatch while driving to the assigned location, his driver made a full stop and the unsecured hatched whipped from it´s back position on the commanders head knocking him down so he had to be taken into hospital, and the driver wasn´t even driving fast, the vehicle just stopped immediately.

Now back to Flashpoint, where tanks skid and slip even on roads inmidst summer, like someone without skates on a ice rink. You can´t drive even with moderate speed safely, at the next best turn it throws you off the track.....

[Guest Scooby]

I've been complaining about ill behaviour of especially tracked vehicles since demo. In demo people said that maybe it is fixed till final release... It wasnt.

I hope BIS would do something about overall vehicle damage and handling modelling. Would be big improvement even if turret and hull would be separated into different hit sectors. Now they are just one big hit locations.