East Wepons vs West Weapons

[Heatseeker 0]

Well my apologies for insulting all the l33t forum soldiers with my civilian ignorance, (im 28, joined and served in 98, only fired G3 7,62 rifles and ancient walther 9mm handguns)...

Quote[/b] ]

Infantrymen aren't pansy ass civilians

Oh please stop now, next time i see a 19 year old kid in army colours i might pass out .

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Well my apologies for insulting all the l33t forum soldiers with my civilian ignorance, (im 28, joined and served in 98, only fired G3 7,62 rifles and ancient walther 9mm handguns)...

Quote[/b] ]

Infantrymen aren't pansy ass civilians

Oh please stop now, next time i see a 19 year old kid in army colours i might pass out .

Well, when we have questions or make assumptions and are incorrect about the G3, you can correct us and feel mighty proud at doing so. Until then, let us talk about the weapons we know.

[meyamoti 0]

And that's why some are POGs and some are infantry...kidding. You're right on about that... yet another case of someone dishing out his obviously limited knowledge (heatseeker)

I don't mean that as an insult, but why would we randomly say this and that if it were a lie, for no apparent reason. The saw looks heavy to you, but for someone who carries it on a daily basis, and actually KNOWS, it's NOT. Molding a weak little bitch into the game might seem like a grand idea to you, but not to me. Infantrymen aren't pansy ass civilians, and I believe it is modeled decent enough in game to suit most of our needs. It's pretty ridiculous that so many people argue with people that actually DO KNOW. Granted, I am an asshole, as you are all already well aware, but I do know a lot more about the US Army than you.

Woo! Preach on preach on!

You wouldn't believe how weak people are...I'v brought my kevlar helmet up to my school one day and decided to be nice and let those that asked,wear it. Well many complained it was too heavy,I put it on and it just feel like I'm wearing a normal hat,then again I'v seen people cry when they punch styrofoam...sad.

But anyway..thats off topicish and I forgot waht I was going to say that would be on topic...crap.

well...if it counts,I'v seen people say the M16A2 is heavy,I have no idea why they say this,balanced if you hold it right,it doesn't weigh a thing once you get the feel of it,thats a west weapon so I suppose thats on topic.

[otester 0]

I find that almost all weapons are fine to carry just an ass if you have to without a strap/sling for long periods of time.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I'v brought my kevlar helmet up to my school one day and decided to be nice and let those that asked,wear it.

You gave your helmet to schoolkids!? Weren't you afraid they

might break it?

Incidentally, what exactly is a "POG"?

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

POG is synonymous with POGUE and is basically someone who goes on deployment and doesn't do shit but eat 4 (excellent) meals a day at Camp Victory, get fat, bang the ugly female soldiers, go to the mall sized PX, cringe whenever they hear small arms fire, dive for cover when they hear one incoming, fly from Camp Victory to Kuwait because they're terrified of convoying, forbid all convoys because "someone might get hurt," and get awarded outstanding medals of valor for never leaving the wire.

Pogues are generally MOS dependant, but exceptions to the rule always occur.

There are other names too. People who stay on FOBs and don't do anything can be called Pogues or "Fobbits," Pogue can also be synonymous to the term "REMF" The vast majority of the US Army in Iraq are pogues and don't do anything but go to the office for a few hours a day and then bitch about while the tiny rest of us work to keep their asses safe AND do themission we're there for. THEN they come back and take credit for our work and put themselves in for Bronze Stars and shit.

[Second 0]

just coming from Demo's coop... SAW was a ultimate killer, steady in auto-fire (that's the way i want LMG to feel), pity that i didn't have a change to evacuate PK for a testdrive. M4 and AK hopped like grazy (reminds me from AK-47). More testing after my eyes stops hurting and video-options are tweaked...

[scubaman3D 0]

Yeah,beacuse being qualified on the weapon means we must know nothing about it ...I know civilians don't understand these things, but that's why they're civilians and we're soldiers.

Ok soldier, describe for us how it handles when fired standing.

The whole question is whether the recoil in ArmA is realistic or not so end the debate already!

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Okay, last,time I fired the SAW standing was during a reflexive drill in Iraq about a year and a half ago and it went back and slightl,y up to the right. I am a qualified SAW operator, but it's not my assigned weapon. The weapon fires how I would expect it to in the game. There are things that you can do to increase stability. Brace the weapon right on your body, pull the weapon against you, have a good stance with your legs, and stand at the right angle.

In Jan-Feb we have a small arms course being put on for us by our 5th group compadres and I'll get more exposure to that weapon and many others.

Besides, I think this was mostly answered above in the thread anyways.

*edit*

It doesn't matter what I or anyone else says, someone will disagree because they read in a magazine, saw a video on youtube, or their uncle's best friend's cousin said otherwise.

[scubaman3D 0]

^ thank you, that will do for me.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

No problem

[Col. Faulkner 0]

That was good. Please could you appraise the M16s in the game in a similar way?

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

M16A2, sure. I was M16 for 3 years, but am now M4. Anyways, the M16 kicks about the same as the SAW, but much less. In basic training they teach you to grip the weapon by the barrel, but I've found more success by gripping and pulling back on the magazine. I was originally taught to brace the weapon against the "pocket," of the shoulder, but with the IBA that's kinda hard to do so I brace it on my arm and adjust the way I look down the sights.

When aiming, I try to put the sight post on center mass of the target and aim low, the reason to aim low is if you miss you have a decent chance of seeing the ground kick up so you can adust fire. In the game, I always do the "hold breath" thing, if I don't feel like doing that, then I listen to the breathing and fire on the natural pause.

The biggest thing to keep in mind are the 4 Fundamentals of Rifle Marksmanship:

Steady position -(the most important! Braced weapon, prone, bipod, etc

Trigger Squeeze - Can't do in game, but you "squeeze" the trigger on an M16A2. The actual firing is supposed to take you by surprise, at least according to the book.

Aiming - Correct alignment of the front and rear sight post, and a good steady sight picture. This is done by the game automatically.

Breath Control - There are natural pauses on the In/Out of a breath, that's when you should fire single-fire. Another method is to slowly draw in breath and is ok for single fire and burst.

Anyways, long story short, I think the M16A2 is fine in the game, and I prefer to use it in game over the M4 w/ Aimpoint. I still need to mess around with the M4 more, and I'm not as comfortable with it in real life as I would like yet.

[piet11111 0]

then there are the classics that are neither usa nor russian.

G3

HK G41

FN FAL

FN FNC

GALIL

Enfield EM-2

SA80 / L85

MG43

MG34

MG36

HK 23

so many...

now thats a list of weapons i would love to see for the communists.

perhaps something for the next patch (christmass wish)

[otester 0]

^Why not just have a UN squad, also add HK51 and FAMAS to it.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

@otester.

Yes some kind of UN unit would make more sense than arming

the "Commies" with things like FALs and SA80s! Many of the

weapons on that list are obsolescent now (or never even

made it much past acceptance trial stage) so it wouldn't be

a "real life" UN force. It'll no doubt have to be community

addons though, not a BIS patch for the majority of these.

@Clavicula_nox.

Thank you. Interesting that your "4 principles of rifle

marksmanship" are slightly different from the 4 we used

years ago in the British Army firing the SLR, although the

same general points were still emphasised. We also trained

on the "M16" for some jobs (one of the very first variants;

triangular hand-guards, 3-prong flash hider, no "forward

assist" etc) but my memory of the minute details of precisely

how it felt to shoot it is now a bit vague. I did think that

the representation in the game looked a bit more "kicky"

than I seem to remember it (although it's hard to equate

the experience of actually firing a real rifle with the jiggling

"recoil" picture you see on a screen), but if you say it's OK

as a game portrayal then I'll accept that.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Faulkner,

In game it kicks a little funny, i guess, but it's always seemed fine to me in terms of accuracy and what not. I'll do some distance things and check it out more in-depth  tonight. Also, keep in mind that the changes the m16 has gone through could have impacted that a bit.

What were the marksmanship stuff you guys were taught?

*edit*

The m16 rocks around a little too much, I think, but it returns to about the same sight picture, so it's not a big deal.

[otester 0]

The M24 seems a bit lacking in power, this would do nicely!

Either side can have it since Iran uses this for real and they classify as East and Switzerland use it since their Western!

[echo1 0]

Only problem I had with the weapons is that the best AT weapons are Light ones, M136 and RPG, no Kornets are Javelins :/

Also about the AK's, i've used them for almost all of the campaign and they are great.

Also why does the M4 only have burst? o.0

I thought there was a Javelin in ArmA? Theres one on the website.

@Otester: I believe the 505 Games ArmA is coming with additional weaponry, and that the Barrett is one of them. I was also interested to find out that Iran and a Western-aligned Switzerland are in ArmA What sort of gun is that?

[Sdstorage 0]

I'm finding it rather difficult to hit with the M4 w/aimpoint at distances beyond 200m in game.  AI seems quite comfortable seriously engaging (and hitting) at the <350m mark.

Any of you crackshots got some tips for hitting with that little red dot?  Do you aim low, high, left, right?  I just seem to get wasted over and over.  Is it just an AI accuracy issue?  

This is especially troubling since this rifle is the primary weapon in the campaign.

[Ukraineboy 0]

IIRC the original Soviet designation for it was as

a "submachine-gun") designed for putting down a large

volume of fire at close to moderate ranges in accordance

with Soviet tactical doctrine.

I dont know where you have your info on Soviet tactical doctrine, but it was never designated a sub machine gun. You're thinking of what the Chinese designated the AK47, they called it a submachine gun.

Furthermore, its designed to be a robust and easily maintained mass produced weapon. I dont know where you get the idea of large volume of fire, they have the PKM and the RPK for that.

[otester 0]

Only problem I had with the weapons is that the best AT weapons are Light ones, M136 and RPG, no Kornets are Javelins :/

Also about the AK's, i've used them for almost all of the campaign and they are great.

Also why does the M4 only have burst? o.0

I thought there was a Javelin in ArmA? Theres one on the website.

@Otester: I believe the 505 Games ArmA is coming with additional weaponry, and that the Barrett is one of them. I was also interested to find out that Iran and a Western-aligned Switzerland are in ArmA What sort of gun is that?

Hopefully this explains it enough

http://www.steyrarms.com/index.php?id=29

505 will probably have either of these:

Barrett 95M

or

Barrett M82

[wamingo 1]

I'm finding it rather difficult to hit with the M4 w/aimpoint at distances beyond 200m in game.  AI seems quite comfortable seriously engaging (and hitting) at the <350m mark.  

Any of you crackshots got some tips for hitting with that little red dot?  Do you aim low, high, left, right?  I just seem to get wasted over and over.  Is it just an AI accuracy issue?  

Very high resolution and very low mouse sensitivity seems to be the only real cure for long range engagements. The bullet spread seem pretty much like a circle so the only thing you can do is counter gravity and aim up a bit and pray. Based on my still very limited demo only experience.

[DaSquade 0]

From what i read 505 release (extra's) will contain the M107.

Just hope it isn't to nice and good, or i have an other canceled model on my HD . But i'm looking forward to some big caliber riffle...

[Second 0]

IIRC the original Soviet designation for it was as

a "submachine-gun") designed for putting down a large

volume of fire at close to moderate ranges in accordance

with Soviet tactical doctrine.

I dont know where you have your info on Soviet tactical doctrine, but it was never designated a sub machine gun. You're thinking of what the Chinese designated the AK47, they called it a submachine gun.

Furthermore, its designed to be a robust and easily maintained mass produced weapon. I dont know where you get the idea of large volume of fire, they have the PKM and the RPK for that.

Large volume of fire at time when AK47 was new weapon, meaned that it had automatic-fire and high bulletcount in magazine + fast reloading possibility. At that time other countries used bolt-action or semi-auto rifles and SMGs, so AK was indeed only of it's kind: rate-of-fire like SMG and accuracte shootingrange much better but not so good as with rifle. Pretty much as Col. Faulker said.

Original AKs suffered from poor bulletquality, and barrelquality. But AKs are produced by many countries and factories and there are very good models and very bad models.