Recoil in the new videos

[frederf 0]

He means a surpressed weapon was probably fired with "normal" bullets so the recoil should be the same for the surpressed or unsurpressed weapon. You don't always have to use subsonic ammo with a surpressed weapon.

[Peekee 0]

Surely there are two points here.

1) Simulating the recoil. (Physics model and weapon?)

2) Simulating the skill off the controling the recoil. (More of a gameplay/realism debate)

I am sure it would be possible to have the physics model make 1) super realistic. However, that alone would be pointless leaving the player to do all the work of controling recoil via the mouse.There has to be 2). A model of how the soldier controls the weapon and tries to bring the jolt from the recoil back to the starting position.

I thought the way ofp worked on iron sights was the same way as it worked on the cross hair sights in that there were two points:

a) Where you wanted to aim and;

b) Shere the gun was pointed.

So recoil knocked b) off  but left a) the same. It is then up to the model of the soldier that controls how the gun is brought back to a). For gaming reasons seams a reasonable balance between realism and playability.

However, some things to think about (or things that I think sound cool):

The skill/fatigue of a soldier could change the ability to move from b) to a)

Perhaps some guns recoil could alter a) e.g. slight random shift depending on characteristics of weapon on recoil. Again this could be tied into skill/fatigue.

[JobJenkins222 0]

The problem with OFP is that you are easily able to sustain rapid fire on a target without actually having to readjust the sights. From real life experience with 5.56 ammo I need to readjust the sights to target after about 4-5 rapid shots in single fire on medium distance (100-150m) otherwise it would have shiftet too much off my initial aiming point.

I'm not saying the weapons have big recoil but they have some recoil and you need to control that. Of course it feels like nothing when you shot larger caliber first but you still need to do something about the recoil.

Of course there are very good shooters around that can handle the recoil nearly perfectly but as I see it OFP is not an elite soldier sim. And there are many professional soldiers that aren't very good shooters - not to mention the quality of the sahrani troops. But from what I've seen there is no realistic recoil simulation ingame and much of the recoil system that OFP has is easily modable so It's not really a major problem to adjust it to my taste. I just don't feel anything like shooting a real rifle when shooting in OFP (and presumeably also in arma).

EDIT:

to prevent confusion. with "rapid fire" I mean single fire in rapid progression. In German we call it "rasches Einzelfeuer"

This is what I am worried about too. Single shot recoil is fine, but the ability to fire 30 rounds in full auto without deviating from your initial aiming point is unrealistic, and was something that annoyed the hell out of me how recoil was pretty much nonexistant in ofp.

You could just point the cross hair and hold it down it looks like. That is less realistic than CS! CS doesn't even have that! We are talking like quake-level here! What kind of simulation is that?

Another thing that worries me is the ironsights seem completely still. Is there still a fatigue model in the game? The player was just running around when he aimed is rifle-and it was still completely still.

With the way its going, Armed Assault infantry mechanics seem more llike CS than a simulation.

Yes, there doesn't seem to be fatigue any more

[Placebo 29]

For a lot of the features/functions in the ArmA the main developmental part is to implement the features into ArmA, then it's a case of adjusting and fine tuning the actual implementation and values of these functions, take recoil for example, a couple of builds ago this was adjusted so high as to make combat more difficult than is realistic, so probably now it's lessened a little more than is necessary, but that's where the IP part of WIP comes in

[frederf 0]

So is it possible to have your view "climb" under full auto? Such that the center of your crosshair spread actually moves?

[JobJenkins222 0]

For a lot of the features/functions in the ArmA the main developmental part is to implement the features into ArmA, then it's a case of adjusting and fine tuning the actual implementation and values of these functions, take recoil for example, a couple of builds ago this was adjusted so high as to make combat more difficult than is realistic, so probably now it's lessened a little more than is necessary, but that's where the IP part of WIP comes in

Good to hear.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

So is it possible to have your view "climb" under full auto? Such that the center of your crosshair spread actually moves?

Why? That seems like it would be unrealistic, and just an overall pain in the ass.

[ryankaplan 1]

Quote[/b] ]So recoil knocked b) off but left a) the same. It is then up to the model of the soldier that controls how the gun is brought back to a). For gaming reasons seams a reasonable balance between realism and playability.

However, some things to think about (or things that I think sound cool):

The skill/fatigue of a soldier could change the ability to move from b) to a)

Perhaps some guns recoil could alter a) e.g. slight random shift depending on characteristics of weapon on recoil. Again this could be tied into skill/fatigue.

this seems like a brilliant idea to me. The more tired you are, the less chance of the soldier bringing the recoil to bear. so if you are not tired, the gun will have a little or no overall climb (after the initial recoil), while when you are tired, you'll have to bring the sights back down manually. yes. genius

[Dynamax 0]

this seems like a brilliant idea to me. The more tired you are, the less chance of the soldier bringing the recoil to bear. so if you are not tired, the gun will have a little or no overall climb (after the initial recoil), while when you are tired, you'll have to bring the sights back down manually. yes. genius

um.. that we already have in OFP.. stop nitpicking already.. its getting old

[frederf 0]

So is it possible to have your view "climb" under full auto? Such that the center of your crosshair spread actually moves?

Why? That seems like it would be unrealistic, and just an overall pain in the ass.

Because I don't expect to fire 100 rounds full auto, hands off the mouse mind you, from an M249 and have my aim return to the exact pixel it started at.

[martinovic 0]

No that's not in OFP, the aim gets shaky for a few seconds, but that's it. What he described seems more complex.

I also see it misleading to call the system in OFP "fatigue", it's too short to be fatigue. Fatigue is more permanent and you need a good sleep to get rid of it, atleast for me.

Tiring could have some permanent effects, like the above suggestions, to emphasize the importants of fresh troops. Game 2 suggestion forum here i come.

[DrBobcat 0]

But now you are crossing over the line from "realistic fun" to "realistic frustration." Any game with permanent penalties from sprinting needs to be toned down. Do I think that the penalties need to be higher? Yes. Do I think they need to not end until you "sleep?" Hells no. And aside from all of this, it has been proven that the shakiness could be modded (ala FDF). This isn't something we really need to cry over.

Besides, PlaceBo already said they're still tweaking it. Don't start crying before you have proof of this so called "travesty."

- dRb

[Heathen13 0]

Bah, its realistic in my eyes, its all good recoil wise.

[MinorInfluence 0]

If its anything close to Counter-Strike Recoil and Accuracy (hitbox's which im used to) Then i think its a step in the right direction. I hate to say other game titles because some ppl hate the games or look down upon it but a mixture of Counter-Strikes and Battlefield 2's Recoil and Hitbox's would be perfect in my eyes. Just my Opinion.

Another thing, i dont know much about it but i was wondering in some First Person Shooters there is Real Bullettime (is what ppl name it) when the engine actually creates bullets and not invisible data which either hits or misses the target, does anybody know more about this or can explain it to me, and does this game have either?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

If its anything close to Counter-Strike

No, nothing about this game is remotely similar to CS. Thank god.

[MinorInfluence 0]

If its anything close to Counter-Strike

No, nothing about this game is remotely similar to CS. Thank god.

I understand this is a Simulation Game and CS isnt close but just cus you hate CS doesnt mean it didnt have good points or ideas.

[dmitri 0]

The effect of the recoil might not be visually clear due to OFP/AA's animation system..

[NeMeSiS 11]

If its anything close to Counter-Strike

No, nothing about this game is remotely similar to CS. Thank god.

I understand this is a Simulation Game and CS isnt close but just cus you hate CS doesnt mean it didnt have good points or ideas.

I dont know if you ever tried OFP, but the weapons there feel much better then CS, really, everything in CS feels like plastic toys compared to OFP

[MinorInfluence 0]

If its anything close to Counter-Strike

No, nothing about this game is remotely similar to CS. Thank god.

I understand this is a Simulation Game and CS isnt close but just cus you hate CS doesnt mean it didnt have good points or ideas.

I dont know if you ever tried OFP, but the weapons there feel much better then CS, really, everything in CS feels like plastic toys compared to OFP

all i said was there is some good ideas from other games, not that this game is similar to them other than its a first person shooter, no harm done that why i try not to bring other games in cus everyone flips out.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

If its anything close to Counter-Strike

No, nothing about this game is remotely similar to CS. Thank god.

I understand this is a Simulation Game and CS isnt close but just cus you hate CS doesnt mean it didnt have good points or ideas.

I never said I hated it, but ArmA is practically the complete opposite of CS. If should remain that way. And ArmA does not work anything like CS, which is very unrealistic. Instead, weapon ballistics are realistically simulated, meaning bullets are real objects and can be manipulated (bullet-time was already possible in OFP) by wind and gravity, weapons have fixed (and very low) dispersion (no "cone of fire") so bullets always leave the barrel in a straight line (opposed to the way that the ballistics in most FPS games sometimes cause bullets to unrealistically leave the barrel at random, impossible angles to compensate for the loss of accuracy due to unsteady hands), weapons are not fixed to the center of the screen (because the real cause for inaccurate fire is movement of the weapon, not random dispersion that unrealistically changes), and getting hit by a bullet is either lethal or not, depending where you're hit, and being wounded affects your ability to aim and/or move (more specifically standing up), making you horribly incapable of defeating an enemy face to face (luckily most engagements are one-sided).

[MinorInfluence 0]

If its anything close to Counter-Strike

No, nothing about this game is remotely similar to CS. Thank god.

I understand this is a Simulation Game and CS isnt close but just cus you hate CS doesnt mean it didnt have good points or ideas.

bullets are real objects and can be manipulated (bullet-time was already possible in OFP) by wind and gravity, weapons have fixed (and very low) dispersion (no "cone of fire") so bullets always head towards wherever your barrel is pointed, weapons are not fixed to the center of the screen (because the real cause for inaccurate fire is movement of the weapon, not random dispersion that unrealistically changes), and getting hit by a bullet is either lethal or not, depending where you're hit, and being wounded affects your ability to aim and/or move (more specifically standing up), making you horribly incapable of defeating an enemy face to face (luckily most engagements are one-sided).

thank you, you Answered my question.

[dmakatra 1]

Bloody hell, that was pretty much the worst welcome of a non-Flashpointer ever. It took him half a page to find an answer to a very simple question. Stop looking into your own elitistic belly buttons just because you are playing a more mature game.

If it is a mature game, which it is, then I expect a mature community. You've just proven the opposite.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I wasn't talking about how mature the game is (and I could care less), I was simply pointing out how OFP and ArmA are a big improvement in certain aspects over most other shooters out there, which use unrealistic methods to achieve certain realistic effects (which IMO cancel eachother out, and the result is just unrealistic), and how OFP/ArmA simulates the smaller realistic aspects to make the game more life-like.

[MinorInfluence 0]

Bloody hell, that was pretty much the worst welcome of a non-Flashpointer ever. It took him half a page to find an answer to a very simple question. Stop looking into your own elitistic belly buttons just because you are playing a more mature game.

If it is a mature game, which it is, then I expect a mature community. You've just proven the opposite.

Thanks for understanding, i just put in my opinion and followed it by a question and i get responses that are kinda mocking my references to other games, didnt say any game was better than the other just trying to be in the conversation, i like alot of games and im sorry if i somehow offended OFP fans.

And yes ive played OFP since the beggining.

[NeMeSiS 11]

i like alot of games and im sorry if i somehow offended OFP fans.

Heh i have to admit, we are kinda picky when it comes to other games, mostly because OFP has his own way of doing things, which we are all very used to (and love) after 5 years of OFP