FlashNews Armour Hit Competition.

[bionicman303 1]

i have one thing to add, u guys were saying that even if u did disable the engine on a tank it could still kill you..., well your wrong, the engine powers the turret, no power no turn! tank is rendered compleatly useless

my coordinates were 173,107, many tanks and i am on elevated ground behind them, turrets probly couldent angle that high to shoot me anyways lol and from behind i maximize use of my crapy rpg launcher, and the weekness of all tanks, the armor at the rear

Hi,

If i got your coordinates right, you would shoot from left-above of the tank column moving out of town, right? I guess that these are Northern Sahrani tanks and therefore are not meant to be a target as you are a *Northern* Sahrani RPG soldier!?

As I stated before, the only place (from what I know...) can be a spot from where you have a direct sight on the tank being on the lower-left edge of the picture. Additionally, infantry patrolling in about 100-200 metres to the right of that tank, exclude that area while searching for ...

a) ... a possible attack spot

b) ... a possible retreat route

greetz

[walker 0]

Hi all

What is the arming distance for an RPG? 45 metres or so?

Of course suicidal users might alter that but effective trained troops will not. It takes time to train someone how to fire an RPG effectivley.

What is minimum effective range of an RPG say a standard RPG7? Distance it takes to reach an effective velocity to fly nice and straight and penetrate armour?

Say about 200 Meters.

How many practice rounds does it take to train somone to hit a target at the minimum effective range?

What is its maximum effective range?

Say 500 metres.

How many practice rounds does it take to train somone to hit a target at the maximum effective range?

Draw some circles.

Sensible officers will not want to waste those who can take down an M1A1 or Merkaba. So they will also be trained to escape and evade.

Firing position

What is your cover after firing, with that big white smoke trail leading to your firing position.

Being close to an explosion on a tank means your enemy eyes are first drawn to the tank then to the source of the rocket. Being close means they find you faster. How far away should you be?

Are you in defelade? Posibly the most important question. If you are in defelade then only the enemy you are killing and those he blocks the line of sight of can see or shoot you. Nice defilade a thin zig zag alley with walls either side and maybe some top cover.

What about back blast? A wall behind you might propel you out into the open or kill and wound you. It will give away your position.

Enemy considerations

Which ways is he looking? There will be more than one.

How many pairs of eyes?

Where is he weakest? In a tank top, hatches are weak, and back. But a mobility kill where the enemy can not recover the vehicle is as good as an outright kill and exposes the mobility kill and crew to subsequent attack with smoke and molotovs. As well as recovery crews. So the tracks are a good target.

Where are his weapons?

Where are they pointing?

Where can he point them at?

How fast can he bring them to bear?

Getting away with it

Where is the escape route?

Where are you escaping too?

Where are your troops?

Where are the enemy troops?

Just some minor thoughts.

Kind Regards Walker

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Just a thought to throw in there:

Remember the RPG7 is a notoriously inaccurate weapon in real life - it is ridiculously affected by the wind, thus the more open air you will have to fire across, the shoddier your aim will be.

[walker 0]

Hi all

There is also the question of how big a target can you hit at what range.

Range limits your target

200 metres is very far to hit a specific point on a vehicle such as the turret ring or a hatch (from height). Getting the engine compartment or a track may be easier.

http://www.defense-update.com/products/r/rpg.htm

If your choice of target on a tank affects the decision it may affect how you must aproach it.

In OFP I would not consider taking on an MBT at more than 150m but OFP is not real life. Yes I have hit them from further out. In OFP BMPs I regularly shoot out to about 500m plus.

In OFP I would want to be one of a three or four man team taking on an MBT.

If I was using WGL with the ability to kill a track. I would consider a longer range shot say as much as 300m.

FAS puts the minimum arming range of the RPG at 5m

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/rpg-7.pdf

Others say it is out to as much as 50m

I tend to believe FAS.

Here is another interesting read

http://www.defense-update.com/features/du-1-04/rpg-threat.htm

Kind Regards Walker

[Schattenlied 0]

Hi,

If i got your coordinates right, you would shoot from left-above of the tank column moving out of town, right? I guess that these are Northern Sahrani tanks and therefore are not meant to be a target as you are a *Northern* Sahrani RPG soldier!?

As I stated before, the only place (from what I know...) can be a spot from where you have a direct sight on the tank being on the lower-left edge of the picture. Additionally, infantry patrolling in about 100-200 metres to the right of that tank, exclude that area while searching for ...

a) ... a possible attack spot

b) ... a possible retreat route

greetz

ok just caus there in the northern part of town dosent mean there my tanks, and the tank in the south is an american M1A1/A2 abrams tank, nothing else. in otherwords, not a target

[BlackScorpion 0]

I set my guy at the high "doublehouse" right next to the tank, front right in the pic... ought to give me a nice 30-40m shooting distance, a quick getaway (via staircase and to the backyard, where there's a friendly already) and some cover from the tank. The fella further away might spot me but it's only few meters to the door so...

[Schattenlied 0]

dude thats right behind the american tank, youd be shooting a friendly with that rpg, not an enemy tank. read the post i put right before yours , if you look closly the enemy tanks are up at the top, driving north east,(T-72 tanks) wich would mean, enemy, there hard to spot at first but you will see them

[Schattenlied 0]

I marked my spot near a opening in the fence a few meters north of the abrams. Why? Because you can fire and hit the tank in the rear causing most damage. Then you can quickly escape by jumping a few fences behind the buildings.

Exactly. I marked the same spot.

ok theres some slight problems with your area, you basically pointed this out yourself, you said behind the "ABRAMS" thats an AMERICAN TANK, not an enemy tank, pay attention guys, use your brain,.lol

[Silent N Deadly 0]

I marked my spot near a opening in the fence a few meters north of the abrams. Why? Because you can fire and hit the tank in the rear causing most damage. Then you can quickly escape by jumping a few fences behind the buildings.

Exactly. I marked the same spot.

ok theres some slight problems with your area, you basically pointed this out yourself, you said behind the "ABRAMS" thats an AMERICAN TANK, not an enemy tank, pay attention guys, use your brain,.lol

@Schattenlied: "lol"

Why don't you use YOUR brain. "lol"

Maybe english/reading classes would help your brain evolve slightly so that instead of pointing out and quickly jumping the gun on others you might be able to actually take your time and read carefully. "lol"

[Dynamax 0]

ok theres some slight problems with your area, you basically pointed this out yourself, you said behind the "ABRAMS" thats an AMERICAN TANK, not an enemy tank, pay attention guys, use your brain,.lol

i think it is you who is having issues on knowing what side your on..

try reading the whole thing from start to finish, and make sure you understand what is being said.

but just incase you dont figure it out i'll help you out.

you (the guy with the "RPG"(like that doesnt give it away)), are part of the northern forces.. that Abrams tank is part of the southern forces.. you're objective is to take out any southern.. ok let have another go.. SOUTHERN armour vehicles. that being siad, that abrams is the ONLY southern forces armour seen in the picture, its a little too obvious that it's your target.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Poor guy.

I can't remember where I put my entry.

[mr burns 132]

aah, the fun we have

[Silent N Deadly 0]

Even Placebo said in plain english, that you have to attack the Abram Tank. So pathetic how some people quickly jump on others before they actually carefully read the whole thing themselves. "lol"

[adumb 0]

"lol"

[Silent N Deadly 0]

Lets "lol"!

[Ironsight 1]

Even Placebo said in plain english, that you have to attack the Abram Tank.

You have?

Ohhh noz

[kernriver 4]

I set my guy at the high "doublehouse" right next to the tank, front right in the pic... ought to give me a nice 30-40m shooting distance, a quick getaway (via staircase and to the backyard, where there's a friendly already) and some cover from the tank. The fella further away might spot me but it's only few meters to the door so...

That's exactly what i did...

[BlackScorpion 0]

Then, assuming it's a good position, I hope that I got the better (or yours sucks more) tiebreaker.

Oh, just to clarify, in coordinates that's somewhere around (500, 500).

[Schattenlied 0]

Even Placebo said in plain english, that you have to attack the Abram Tank. So pathetic how some people quickly jump on others before they actually carefully read the whole thing themselves. "lol"

dude your special, i just read the thing 6 times, where the fuck dose it say to attack the abrams? and in what way dose the fact that a tank in the southern part of the pic mean its a southern armour target? do you know what a flanking manuver is? apperently not dumbass

[Frans 0]

Schattenlied, on page 2 of this very thread Placebo said:

"Any "Western/USA" vehicle should be considered Southern Sahrani."

And on the official competition page here it says:

"the position on the map where the most imminent threat would be from an enemy Northern Sahrani soldier armed with an RPG launcher, the Northern Sahrani soldier will of course be vying to attack Southern Sahrani armour. "

So you need to destroy the Abrams, like it or not.

[BlackScorpion 0]

Schattenlied. Considering that you've been part of the forums for about a month, and that the above was your 5th post (1st one 10 days ago...), I think you're not in the best position to argue against pretty much everyone, atleast not with insulting people...

OK, what do we have? Abrams in the lower left, and a column of T-72s (you even regodnized them, remember?) on the upper part. As we know from i.e. William Porter's blog, US forces were on the island training S-Sahrani troops when the N-Sahrani troops engaged. N-Sahrani is a sosialist state, and uses old Com Bloc hardware, such as helmets, AKs and armor (just check screenies).

Competition says you're a N-Sahrani RPG soldier with 3 RPGs. T-72s are very likely to be N-Sahrani. The whole left side of the pic is "dominated" by US troops. As mentioned above, both by me and few others, and by our beloved Placebo, US troops are to be considered hostile.

So, we got 5 or so T-72s and an Abrams. Now, I wonder which belong(s) to US...

Not trying to piss you off more, just trying to come up with rational points for our views. You're free to feel differently if you want, just cool down, and don't call us stupid if we have all the arguments above on our side...

I'm not saying I'm correct, just explaining why it could be possible. If I'm wrong... feel free to laugh like hell to all of us "others"!

[Silent N Deadly 0]

Even Placebo said in plain english, that you have to attack the Abram Tank. So pathetic how some people quickly jump on others before they actually carefully read the whole thing themselves. "lol"

dude your special, i just read the thing 6 times, where the fuck dose it say to attack the abrams? and in what way dose the fact that a tank in the southern part of the pic mean its a southern armour target? do you know what a flanking manuver is? apperently not dumbass

I'd like to say a few things to you right now, but I better just resort to PM so I don't disrupt the normal operations of this forum, and I don't want to humiliate you infront of such a large public audience since you might cry to your mommy. Your behaviour is pathetic and your attempts at "attacking" me are just as sad. Get your head out of your ass! KKTHXBAI

Btw-Im estimating your about 14 years old by your post, and yes Im aware what a flanking manuver is but the question is did you know what...never mind no use wasting my time. Back to the issue at hand, the Competition. Just forget it.

Edit- Thanks BlackScorpion for that post. Glad some people have their heads on right.

[walker 0]

Hi all

@Schattenlied

The first pasge of this thread

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....52;st=0

Links to the actual competion page

http://www.bistudio.com/presspa....on.html

Quote[/b] ]The competition is pretty straightforward - below you can see an image from Armed Assault. We sent this image to CAPT Gavin Kane of the Australian Army, based on his military experience and training we asked him to decide what he believes is the position on the map where the most imminent threat would be from an enemy Northern Sahrani soldier armed with an RPG launcher, the Northern Sahrani soldier will of course be vying to attack Southern Sahrani armour. CAPT Kane's decision will be based on the most imminent danger of probable hit, the damage caused and the best chance of escape afterwards by the attacker.

Each of you must try to decide which position he will choose and the entry nearest to CAPT Kane's choice will win 1st prize. Note that there are no guidelines as to which armoured vehicle should be targeted, and the position that CAPT Kane chooses does not consider game limitations, so make your decision as a soldier would, not as a character in-game.

Points taken from the above

You are the commander of some Southern Saharini forces.

You have Armor somwhere in that picture

In order to protect your armour you must assess the most probable location a trained enemy AT soldier armed with three RPGs would launch an attack from.

The rest of the people who are debating with you may have an advantage over you in that they may be more aware than you of the underlying narative of the ArmA game. Which places Southern Sahrani as using western equipment. And Northern Sahrani as using former soviet block equipment.

Placebo who set the competion makes it more explicit thus negating their advantage

Placebo speaking on July 19 2006,20:30 in this part of the thread says

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....2;st=15

Quote[/b] ]Urals are most likely Northern Sahrani targets, so why would you attack your own forces? Not to mention the fact that trucks are "soft targets"

Any "Western/USA" vehicle should be considered Southern Sahrani.

Royal_Blackwatch you should take into account that the target(s) you choose, and the way you attack, may set up further immediate successful attacks (of those same targets you attacked or other targets) for the rest of your side, how you decide that is up to you.

The only western armor I see is the Abrams in the lower left hand corner of the picture.

I know some of you are mature adults and some of you have served in the armed forces. The guy is new cut him a little slack.

Kind Regards Walker

[Artak 0]

Oh dear, I think I just immobilized a friendly BMP.

I still have one hope though, that the best position to ambush the friendly tanks is also the best position to attack the Abrams.

[Placebo 29]

I now know who the winners are