Fabulous flying & firing machines in ArmA?

[ricnunes 0]

AH-6, MD500 - same thing, really. My point is that actual gunship variants (aka, Defender) aren't that common. The OH-58D in comparison at least comes with weaponry in mind, if light. Maybe a more interim solution could be excersized here - give the Guards a more advanced aircraft such as Rooivalk or Whiskey Cobras and then have AH-1F/S serve as the common gunship.

Hi Franze,

I'm also enjoying this thread. It's interesting to specualte what should be the Armed Forces (or order of battle) of both Sahrani parts and who knows, maybe we could be helping the Armed Assault devs with this issue?

I wanted to add one thing about the MD500:

I still think that the MD500 should be the chooise for South Sahrani main gunship (and scout) helicopter force because it seems a very economical gunship/scout solution and the MD500 was also exported to many countries some of which could be a model for what I think should be South Sahrani.

I imagine South Sahrani as being something like a poorer (and tropical) Taiwan or South Korea.

Anyway here's a list of countries to where the MD500 was exported:

-Argentina

-Bolivia

-Denmark

-Spain

-Israel

-Japan

-Jordan

-Colombia

-South Korea

-Mexico

-Taiwan

An another reason why I think that the MD500 should be the South Sahrani main gunship/scout helo is because this helo is already made/modeled in Armed Assault as the form of AH-6 which like you said is basically the same thing as the MD500.

[ricnunes 0]

Regading to what SLA should be (I also remember to have seen the SLA associated with Armed Assault) I also believe that is could mean:

SLA - Sahrani Liberation Army

But this IMO, doesn't mean that it must a North-backed South Sahrani guerrilla force (similar to the Vietcong during the Vietnam war).

It could be the designation of the official North Sahrani Army which took the idea from the Chinese Army. By the way the Chinese Army designation is:

PLA - Peoples Liberation Army

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Where does it even say SLA?

[Ukraineboy 0]

Where does it even say SLA?

Looks like they are DRS backed rebels.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Oh, nevermind.

[deanosbeano 0]

lol none believers , yin and yang + and - , it all makes the world go round, i love it .

btw i only ever print if i am sure, i always ask the people at bis b4 i make a claim, and its not different with SLA. . but alas i didnt ask if it was the main army or the resistance (friendly to north).so riccune could be right that its the name of the northern army .Plus there are now maybe a hundred or so journalists playing "press evaluation version .071", i asked a few of them too .

oh and to keep on topic i will take a guess and say yes i think there will be a hind in arma. ( there goes my "i always make sure statement).

[Ukraineboy 0]

lol none believers , yin and yang + and - , it all makes the world go round, i love it .

It's not about non-believers, its about you claimed that it is a fact that there is the SLA. Without any evidence. Now, someone else has posted the evidence. Back your claims up next time.

[franze 196]

I wanted to add one thing about the MD500:

I still think that the MD500 should be the chooise for South Sahrani main gunship (and scout) helicopter force because it seems a very economical gunship/scout solution and the MD500 was also exported to many countries some of which could be a model for what I think should be South Sahrani.

Actually, economically, OH-58 was sold for a considerably less sum than the MD500 - this is one of the reasons the US Army got OH-58s in the late 60s, because Hughes charged more for the OH-6. An AH-1 is also less expensive to keep around than a Defender, for that matter.

Also, Taiwan doesn't use OH-6 anymore. They retired them in the early 90s when they bought a batch of OH-58s and AH-1Ws, replacing the OH-6s and UH-1s they had filling those roles.

I'm also pretty sure Mexico has retired them in favor of a different light utility helicopter.

Quote[/b] ]

An another reason why I think that the MD500 should be the South Sahrani main gunship/scout helo is because this helo is already made/modeled in Armed Assault as the form of AH-6 which like you said is basically the same thing as the MD500.

Agreed, although I don't believe the AH-6Js presented really fit that well. If it HAD to be an MD500, I'd rather see an export quality Defender, with TOW capable optics on the rotor mast or front of the aircraft. A M260 rocket pod with two TOW missiles would round out the armament.

[echo1 0]

Right. Now maybe Im completely wrong here, but we're talking two small states here. I doubt they would be able to afford some of the items mentioned like 'Brams, AH-W, Ka-50 etc. Id say theyd be pretty backwards, to an extent. So heres what Im thinking:

Southern Army

Weapon of Choice:

G3, FAL, M16A1 or AKM/Type-56. Going back on my Western armament point I made earlier, America has ordered huge numbers of AKs as aid for Iraqi army and Afghani army. It would really depend on the history of these Islands what they would have. Any sort of Communist control - AKs, Colony - Probably FAL. I'd if it was independent for a good while it would have either G3 or M16A1. They'd have either LAWs, RPGs and maybe Carl Gustavs.

Tanks? M60A1, AMX-30, T-55. If they have really have to have Modern Tanks - Leopard 2A4; the Germans have been getting rid of their surplus Leo2s left right and centre. I'd say theyd have some sort of amored cars around. Panhards? Scorpions? APCs- BTRs, M113s, AIFV. Modern - Patria, CV90. Jeeps - Land Rover or GAZ

Aircraft - UH-1 (Blackhawks would be unlikely) Mi-8, Mi-2, any of those French Aerospatiale choppers like Cougar or whatnot. Armed; Gazelle, BOH-150, perhaps a few OH-6 for special missions. Modern - Maybe some AH-1s, Lynxes or Mi-35s.

Fighters? Mirages (pick whatever model you like :P) MiG-21s. Modern - F16, without a doubt. Ground attack - maybe special conversions of propeller training aircraft, like Pilatus or Cessna.

Specops: MP5SD or M4s

I'll put up some North and Rebel stuff tomorrow, now Im just too tired

[Ukraineboy 0]

Guys sorry to say but the OOB wont be realistic to one bit...said it 20 thousand times but gotta mention it again. Look at OFP's default units and you see it wasnt realistic, and who cares?

[franze 196]

Right. Now maybe Im completely wrong here, but we're talking two small states here. I doubt they would be able to afford some of the items mentioned like 'Brams, AH-W, Ka-50 etc. Id say theyd be pretty backwards, to an extent.

There are quite a few small states that have some high-quality military equipment in use - examples would be Taiwan, Kuwait, and Singapore. Helicopters such as the Whiskey Cobra are more inviting to a small country than say, an AH-64D.

Quote[/b] ]

Southern Army

Weapon of Choice:

Again, I believe the weapons in use would depend on the history of the island and the government(s). AKs, G3s, M16s, etc. are no doubt quite common and more likely to be found in service, but for the sake of difference a more unique kind of rifle would be appreciated, hence my suggestion of an HK33.

Quote[/b] ]

Tanks? M60A1, AMX-30, T-55.

I'd still go with the M48 on this one. A pretty common tank that was the mainstay before the M60 came in, with more than 11,000 built. Copies and modifications of this tank (and even merging between M60 and M48) can be found in at least 6 countries. Again, this would depend on the past government and it's affiliation.

Quote[/b] ]

Aircraft - UH-1, Mi-8, Mi-2, any of those French Aerospatiale choppers like Cougar or whatnot.

No argument on the UH-1 or Mi-8, and it's a good guess they won't have Black Hawks. Gunships would most likely be AH-1s or Mi-35s, again on their inexpensiveness and availibility. A single engined AH-1 variant would work out well in this regard.

Quote[/b] ]

Fighters?

I see fixed wing aircraft as being something not readily availible, but maybe in the realm of 3 or 4 F-20. Alternatively, Mirage F1s would fit the bill - and MiG-21 can't be forgotten if there was a former communist government.

Quote[/b] ]

Guys sorry to say but the OOB wont be realistic to one bit...said it 20 thousand times but gotta mention it again. Look at OFP's default units and you see it wasnt realistic, and who cares?

So? What's wrong with asking 'what-if' anyways? Did you ever think that somebody might want to make a mod with new equipment for both sides?

[Ukraineboy 0]

So? What's wrong with asking 'what-if' anyways? Did you ever think that somebody might want to make a mod with new equipment for both sides?

Who said that you couldnt ask what-if? I merely stated that you should have your hopes up for it that's all. Don't put words into my mouth.

[Lou Montana 101]

BIS knows its past errors with OFP, why would they do it again?

Maybe they will do as realistic as possible! It ain't just a OFP remake with the same team and without "community experience", there've been some years OFP has been released, now BIS try to do the best work ever done ! 1.5Millions of OFP copy, they'll try at least the same for ArmA

[martinovic 0]

I agree that the order of battle doesn't have to be totally realistic (how could that be even possible on a fictious island with fictious countries?). BTW we do not know the exact size of the northern sahranis country as the blog says that the democratic rep. of sahrani extends over more then just that one island.

Furthermore, when you consider the strength and technology of the northern army you have to consider that the main story part of the campaign is only 12 missions long. So i don't think the north can put up that big of a fight.

[ricnunes 0]

Agreed, although I don't believe the AH-6Js presented really fit that well. If it HAD to be an MD500, I'd rather see an export quality Defender, with TOW capable optics on the rotor mast or front of the aircraft. A M260 rocket pod with two TOW missiles would round out the armament.

Yes I agree, if South Sahrani uses the MD500 in it's helicopter force that it's model should have some changes from the AH-6 model (such like you said, optics, TOW missiles and rocket pods). But since both helicopters (MD500 and AH-6) are basically the same helo than the changes made to the AH-6 3D model to convert it in a MD500 should be rather simple, no?

[ricnunes 0]

I think that most here agree that both the G3 or the FN Fal would be an excelent chooise as the regular South Sahrani soldier assault rifle (note, this doesn't include the Elite forces).

So if one of those rifles are to included than the hard decision should in my opinion fall towards the G3. And why I say that the G3 is a better chooise than the FN? Because and since the South Sahrani weather is very hot (tropical) the G3 works much better than the FN FAL (The FNs are excelent in much colder weather such as in Central Europe) in such conditions . I'm saying this because the Portuguese tested both rifles in their Colonial wars (in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau) and the G3 operated quite well in the hot African weather while the FN didn't operate that well.

Also, one thing that is "interesting" if the South Sahrani main force uses older 7,62mm Assault rifles (such as the G3) is that being the player in most cases an American Soldier which is most probably equiped with a M-16A2 (perhaps a M-16A4?) or M-4s, we (as players) will have a much harder time to find "extra" ammo for our M-16s or M-4s.

And finally there's the point that most of the poorer "pro-western" countries still use older 7,62 rifles (again like the G3 or FN FAL) as their standard rifle instead of newer 5,56 rifles (like the M-16).

[shadow 6]

Last I checked, this thread was about helicopters and the Hind in particular

Lets get back on topic.

[franze 196]

Yes I agree, if South Sahrani uses the MD500 in it's helicopter force that it's model should have some changes from the AH-6 model (such like you said, optics, TOW missiles and rocket pods). But since both helicopters (MD500 and AH-6) are basically the same helo than the changes made to the AH-6 3D model to convert it in a MD500 should be rather simple, no?

Well, yes and no. There's several variants of the MD500 where the aircraft shape would need to be heavily modified. Basically the AH-6Js you see in screenshots are upgraded OH-6s to MD500 standard - there's other variants, like MD530F, MD530N with NOTAR, etc.

[chipper 0]

The hind is the north's super weapon. US think's they can't afford attack choppers. Boy they were wrong.

[hardrock 1]

Last I checked, this thread was about helicopters and the Hind in particular

Come on, don't get offtopic there.

. . .

[metallicAL 0]

Why this is a 12 page thread i dont know. It seems to be a "yes" or a "no" question to the Devs.

I would guess such threads are not answered because:

A: The Devs are extremely busy being a 15 member team working on a very advanced game.

B: They choose not to answer as to do so would result in hundreds of questions/threads like "will there be a Vulcan?" "Will there be a SCUD?" "Will there be a T-90?" "will there be blow-up dolls?"

Can we move on in other thread instead of doing the frankenstein on this thread by keeping it alive for way longer than it should. I say this because people are now discussing rifles for crying out loud.

[echo1 0]

Maybe this thread should be renamed, or another one should be started, or some thread that dealed with the same thing should be dug up

[ricnunes 0]

Can we move on in other thread instead of doing the frankenstein on this thread by keeping it alive for way longer than it should. I say this because people are now discussing rifles for crying out loud.

Personally, I simply don't see the problem with this thread! If you don't like it or don't want to post here or if you think this thread is useless why do you even bother coming here??  

And by the way did you noticed that your "complains" makes this thread "bigger" than it could be if you didn't posted such comments?

And regarding to what is being discussed in this thread I have to say the following:

-First this thread was a question if the Mi-24 Hind will be included in Armed Assault. Despite we haven't received any official answer from the devs it was a major consent from everyone that posted here that we certainly will see a Hind in Armed Assault. Since the inclusion of a Hind in Armed Assault is most certainly related to the North Sahrani order of battle, I decided to ask oppinions about what should be the North Sahrani order of battle (of all equipment) and I posted here instead of creating a new thread because in my oppinion the Hind and North Sahrani order of battle are somehow related and by association so the South Sahrani order of battle is also related to the North Sahrani order of battle.

So in the end we aren't discussing completly diferent things.

Do you understand my point of view?

If not than do like me -> If you don't like a thread or think that a thread is useless, than don't give yourself the trouble of posting in that thread!  

[echo1 0]

Somewhat ironically, I only suggested that so that other people would stop complaining that we were all going offtopic. I do like this thread and if you read back Ive made some contributions to it.

So what stuff do people think the rebels will have? (thats if there are any)

[CameronMcDonald 146]

AKs for a start... most likely AKMs (yes, there is a difference between the AK47 and AKM, UkraineBoy - two words: muzzle brake).. the usual smattering of PG2s, PG7s and their respective launchers. Stolen AK74s, too. Perhaps even the AK74 as a majority, seeing as they'd be fairly common by now (I'm not talking about the 74M, which would be rare, I imagine, among rebels).

Whatever vehicles they can lay their hands on, as well. Kind of an open question.