iFEEL support & 3D ironsights

[x al 1]

Hi,

I loved the iFEEL support within Operation Flashpoint. I would love to see this in ArmA, too. Shouldn't be too hard to implement, at least you could use the old ifeel-libraries.

Will ArmA use "real" 3D ironsights, like Battlefield 2 or Pacific Assault? I only have seen scope views, but not ironsights so far. Would be too bad, if you would release ArmA without real 3D ironsights.

BTW...great that ArmA will support TrackIR. I use that little gadget for years now. Probably one of the best hardware for Sim-gamers.

[bravo 6 0]

you mean like this?

<ul>Pic 1

or like this?

Pic 2

[max power 21]

I think he means using the sights on the actual weapon model for aiming when you're using 'iron sights' mode. So, although your m16 there does have iron sights on it, he was referring to their use as an actual aiming device when it is put before the virtual camera.

[Metal Heart 0]

3D iron sight views are usually very unrealistic, it's just a completely different looking picture than what you actually get when aiming a gun with iron sights in real life. OFP got quite good sights, but in my opinnion there should be different 'layers' for front and rear sights, so when you move your aim you would have to wait for a second for them to align etc. And also if there's a 'hold breath' key, it would go nicely with this sort of iron sight view. Or maybe you would even have to align the front and rear sight manually somehow (like tapping the direction keys while holding breath or something) when you need accurate shots, that would make the shooting less 'point and click' and more like actually aiming with a rifle.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

I would like to see iron sights similar to those in Red Orchestra. It would be possible for BIS to implement this, but I'm 99% sure it won't be there.

[grayace 2]

3D iron sight views are usually very unrealistic, it's just a completely different looking picture than what you actually get when aiming a gun with iron sights in real life. OFP got quite good sights, but in my opinnion there should be different 'layers' for front and rear sights, so when you move your aim you would have to wait for a second for them to align etc. And also if there's a 'hold breath' key, it would go nicely with this sort of iron sight view. Or maybe you would even have to align the front and rear sight manually somehow (like tapping the direction keys while holding breath or something) when you need accurate shots, that would make the shooting less 'point and click' and more like actually aiming with a rifle.

I agree with Metal Hearth, partially

OFP current ironsights are pretty good enough but I would also appreciate "two-layer" for this, because when you aim you cant align the sights in a second, you need to concentrate,

and rest of the stuff that effects aiming are, IRL

depth of view is another fact that effects aiming (when you're focusing an eye to target, ironsight gets blurry, try to "shadow/cover" target with sight to help it)

Holding breath is another fact in effect but its morelike necessary if you're shooting a target beyond 300m...)

[dmakatra 1]

IIRC, Brothers in Arms had very good 3D-iron sights. I don't really remember, but I think you had to hold your breath in order to actually hit something. Anyway, shooting (at least with iron sights) was really hard and not really point-and-click like in OFP.

I remember that I couldn't hit shite, and when I finally learnt how to control the rifle, the majority of the game was already over. Bloody short game.

[Delirium 0]

Holding breath and all the alike are good for precision fire. In all other cases it is pretty useless cause it takes time and all you don't have on the battlefield is time.

Quick aiming is very important. Aiming + recoil are the things that should be coded per unit not a weapon.

If you take the same weapon and two units (regular soldier and highly trained Spec ops), which you think would be more efficient.

Which of the two would get better scores in the given time frame?

How you aim and accomodate to recoil is a matter of training not a weapon itself.

That would require a experience or efficiency module ingame or whatever you wanna call it.

[Dynamax 0]

the one thing that pisses me off about OFP that i just hope is in ArmA, is the lack of a weapon selection and customization menue..

i hate having 100+ pbo files for the same M4A1 with acog/reflex/RDS/M203.. and so on.

why not have a single pbo file for the base model of the weapon, then have the seperate pbo's for the attachments.

what it should by set up as is as follows-

#1- base/ M4A1 reciver, #2- Berral, #3- stock, #4- heatshield/handguard, #5- sights, #6- handgaurd attactments.

i would also like to have a better player model to weapon animation. having the same generic animation for every weapon is lame.

the way one holds an M4A1, AUG, G36, is different then how one would hold a M249, M240B, PKM, RPD... and so on.

wouldnt it be posible for the weapon addon to have a code that calls on the correct holding animation to be used on it?

it looks just dumb holding a M249 through its box meg, and i really think this is something that ArmA could use.

[x al 1]

For a better understanding:

I know exactly how real ironsights look and feel.

I think crosshair aiming like counterstrike is most unrealistic. Almost even horrible and unrealistic is aimpod (scopeview) aiming. Most carbines, rifles and pistols don't use these in a standard configuration.

Way better is a 2D ironsight, like OFP introduced. But it is totally outdated, even Americas Army is switching to full 3D ironsights in future PC-versions. Why? Because they come closest to RL.

A very bad 2D ironsight was implemented with Söldner. Horrible look and feel.

In terms of look and feel, a 3d ironsight symbiosys between Battlefield 2 and R6 lockdown would be nice.

Other good examples:

CoD 2

Vietcong 2

BIA

H&D 2

Red Orchestra

Breathing/holding is more or less implemented in all of these games. After a few seconds the aiming will start shaking/moving. And when moving, the alignment of the ironsights will be messed. This can ONLY be done with a 3D ironsight view. Therefor it is the most realistic one. Rainbow six Lockdown implemented that aiming while moving handicap very well.

I just hope 3D ironsights will be implemented, not only crosshairs and aimpods.

[Metal Heart 0]

Quote[/b] ]A very bad 2D ironsight was implemented with Söldner.

Actually, they are all 3D now I think. Still horrible none the less.

Quote[/b] ]This can ONLY be done with a 3D ironsight view.

That's not true. You could have two 2D images, which could be misaligned. One blurred for the rear sight and the other in-focus for the forward sight. I think this would be way more realistic than any 3D sight could ever be with the current graphics cards etc, and it would also save resources.

[kernriver 4]

Breathing/holding is more or less implemented in all of these games. After a few seconds the aiming will start shaking/moving. And when moving, the alignment of the ironsights will be messed. This can ONLY be done with a 3D ironsight view. Therefor it is the most realistic one.

I think that iron sights should be done something like sights in COD2 (they look good and feel quite real, especially when you look through them and walk) and i hope BIS will improve the old ones cause iron sights are one of the reasons i started playing OFP.

[Delirium 0]

I think it is way too late for it to change. It is either implemented or not.

All you can do is to wait and see.

[max power 21]

The worst iron sights in history were for the original vietcong game. The only weapon on which the forward and rear sights were aligned close to where they should be was the SKS. Most of the weapons had their front sight waaay to high over the rear- and the M60 didn't even have a front sight!!!

[Commando84 0]

can someone explain what the difference is between a 3d and a 2d iron sight? I think the 2d ones in ofp work very well..

sometimes i wish the bis weapons could have attachable , detachable sights like Acog , reflex and aimpoint and whatever they are named

[Metal Heart 0]

Usually when people speak about 3D sights they mean that the gun model is held with the sights aligned in the bottom-center of the screen where as 2D iron sights are usually the view what you would actually see when aiming in real life.

[GBee 0]

With the current 2D sights the foresight and rearsight are a fixed 2D image. With 3D sights the foresight and rearsight are seperate entities with the same spacial difference as in real life.

A 2D image is less realistic as you don't have to align the two sights with each other before firing. They also just don't feel right to anyone who has actually fired a rifle.

A 3D sight both looks more realistic, if done correctly, but also behaves more realistically.

[Metal Heart 0]

Quote[/b] ]They also just don't feel right to anyone who has actually fired a rifle.

Neither do the so called "3D sights", while the view is usually quite realistic with pistols (except that everything is in focus), with rifles it's just completely wrong.

Claiming that the OFP-style 2D view is less realistic is simply not true, it's more real than the perfectly sharp gun model in the bottom center of the screen like in most games. You don't hold the rifle one meter away from your face when you aim do you?

[GBee 0]

Who said anything about 3D sights in other games?? No-one here has mentioned Doom style weapons apart from you.

What we are discussing are proper 3D iron sights, which are identical to the current 2D iron sight but the foresight/rearsight are disconnected.

[Metal Heart 0]

Quote[/b] ]Who said anything about 3D sights in other games?? No-one here has mentioned Doom style weapons apart from you.

Many people did. Read the whole thread before making such statements.

Quote[/b] ]What we are discussing are proper 3D iron sights, which are identical to the current 2D iron sight but the foresight/rearsight are disconnected.

Now were talking then, I'm also thinking about combining the best aspects of OFP-like sights and 3D sights, as you would know if you had read my previous posts.

[Scrub 0]

Can a model, or texture be flagged to be blurred by the pixelshader? Or for that matter, use the depth of field that's in Elite to blur the close up items. In the 3D model use the floating method and have the POV lag behind it a bit. Just a thought.

[Delirium 0]

This discussion is pointless.

Anyone who handled a rifle knows that whether you have 3D or 2D sight ingame is irrelevant.

Neither of the two are realistic cause you don't go around with pointing a mouse to shoot sth.

You need a proper controler in order to talk realistic. It pisses me off that regardless of the rank or training those so called 3D sight bump around like a stoned drug addict. It has nothing to do with reality.

When you do a dynamic shoot out you don't hold you breath or aim for 5 sec. It is a f.... lifetime.

Now, doom is a kinda game that you go and plough the road in front of you.

OFP is a game where you kneel, or drop down to aim, compesate for distance and enemy's movement. Then you take one to three shots.

If you add unpredictable wagging, then you don't talk about controling any aiming. Then we'll have shooting an airgun at a dogshit's flea at 500 meters. Good luck.

Not to mention that most of the shootouts in OFP are at range of 50-300 meters where you opponent is a couple of pixels on your monitor.

I can also add that with that dots as you enemy mouse movements may not be too accurate. Happened many times when I tried precision shooting with regular iron sights.

I can go with 3D sights only if there is a experience or learning curve to your character.

[GBee 0]

Quote[/b] ]Who said anything about 3D sights in other games?? No-one here has mentioned Doom style weapons apart from you.

Quote[/b] ]Many people did. Read the whole thread before making such statements.

Let me rephrase "Where did I say anything ..."

Quote[/b] ]What we are discussing are proper 3D iron sights, which are identical to the current 2D iron sight but the foresight/rearsight are disconnected.

Quote[/b] ]Now were talking then, I'm also thinking about combining the best aspects of OFP-like sights and 3D sights, as you would know if you had read my previous posts.

I HAVE read the previous posts hence we are discussing. Although at that particular point in the thread we actually weren't talking about the same thing, you had veered off into "so called "3D sights"" for some reason.

[grayace 2]

This discussion is pointless.

Anyone who handled a rifle knows that whether you have 3D or 2D sight ingame is irrelevant.

Neither of the two are realistic cause you don't go around with pointing a mouse to shoot sth.

You need a proper controler in order to talk realistic. It pisses me off that regardless of the rank or training those so called 3D sight bump around like a stoned drug addict. It has nothing to do with reality.

When you do a dynamic shoot out you don't hold you breath or aim for 5 sec. It is a f.... lifetime.

Now, doom is a kinda game that you go and plough the road in front of you.

OFP is a game where you kneel, or drop down to aim, compesate for distance and enemy's movement. Then you take one to three shots.

If you add unpredictable wagging, then you don't talk about controling any aiming. Then we'll have shooting an airgun at a dogshit's flea at 500 meters. Good luck.

Not to mention that most of the shootouts in OFP are at range of 50-300 meters where you opponent is a couple of pixels on your monitor.

I can also add that with that dots as you enemy mouse movements may not be too accurate. Happened many times when I tried precision shooting with regular iron sights.

I can go with 3D sights only if there is a experience or learning curve to your character.

well only thing making the ironsight irrelevant to a real sight is the zoom factor (Hell, I really missed that "option" in shooting range) other than this, like I said before, when you try to aim through the ironsight IRL, depth of view affects your aiming, because focusing on the target makes the sights blurry...

more or less I support current OFP sights, and I can only wish if we had two seperate layers of sights aligning accordingly to training time / experience / health&stamina

[stgn 39]

Its also much easier I belive to make dot sights like Aimpoints and Eotechs with 2D picture.

STGN