English Translation of DOUPE 15 article

[Leopardi 0]

Gosh, this is the end for realistic games - the last defensive nest of good games, the BIS, out last hope has been defeated. From now on, we can enjoy only arcadish games... *Sigh*

[EiZei 0]

I think they said the same about ghost recon 2 before it came out..

[whisper 0]

Gosh, this is the end for realistic games - the last defensive nest of good games, the BIS, out last hope has been defeated. From now on, we can enjoy only arcadish games... *Sigh*

So for you, OFP is arcadish

[Leopardi 0]

OFP arcadish? lol? Do you even know what arcade means? Go play BF2 and see what it is.

[deanosbeano 0]

well it isn`t excellent news there trying to attract the "arcade brigade", but just like ofp had ctf and cti and dm before it and attrated the AB, i play co op and kinda like to think we a different breed. plus with ded servers theres always the kick button.

my biggest fear is this recent filefront.com appeareance, when ofp info was down and ofpec still is.i had to search elsewhere and it kept on popping up in google,i only hope there is no liason/ hmm conection like there was with bis & "GaySpy", and file planet . pls lord help me jesus wait for spot to dl, 160 min wait 6 kbps dl etc etc. advertisements cookies galore. pooh, now that really would make me buy VBS and be far from the madding crowd. i am watching closely this relationship, sends shivers down me spine.

[Average Joe 0]

Dont sweat fella's, bring on the opposition we shall be ready to take the shift actions nessecary, boot'n'ban. Which will be even better now as we should now have a secure anti-cheat system.

The war will be short, only for afew months at the most until they realise they are the tourists and we are the guides. BIS wouldn't dare making changes that would anger there loyal fans, EVER.

[grayace 2]

Guys, Im reading the posts who semi-support the difficulty levels to allow BOZOS enter the OFP community.. and I dont believe you guys!!

First of all, MAINSTREAMERS and ENTHUSIASM are totally different things, black/white, hot/cold, dead/alive got it?? there is no way to link them... missions they(bozos) like always fast paced and action oriented, OFP fans are used to wait for minutes only for taking another step in whole mission, we plan, we think and when we win we enjoy the VICTORY, kill table is nothing for us!

IF BIS wants to make another CLONE, ITS JUST FINE, its their game and they can do what ever they want. BUT OFP FANS SHOULD NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING LESS THAN OFP STANDARTS

If I were the manager of BIS, and drooling for the pie of "average FPS market" then I would sell two copies of ArmA, just like VBS and OFP,

[Leopardi 0]

Yeah I agree with him.

[klasodeth 0]

Quote[/b] ]In der Mission, die wir bei der Präsentation bei den Entwicklern sehen konnten, musste sich der Spieler um die Säuberung einer Stadt kümmern, um asnchließend gegen ein Lager des Gegners vorzurücken. Während den Hauptverband ein mehrminütiges Vorrücken gegen den Ort der neuen Aufgabe erwartet, nimmt der Spieler die Rolle eines Scharfschützen ein und säubert die Anfahrtswege.  

To me that sounds like in the presentation mission the player cleaned a city, then "switched" and lead an assault against an enemy camp.

Which ofcourse would suck balls if true so i hope i misinterpreted that. I wish i could read the original, but nay.

I don't see why this feature is automatically a bad thing.  It sounds to me like people are assuming that the player will run into some bunker and just "automagically" switch roles, much like some current multiplayer shooters.  But what if it's something totally different?

In OFP, certain missions put the player in the boots of a different character.  David Armstrong didn't magically become a tank commander, Robert Hammer didn't magically become some special ops commando, James Gastovski didn't magically become some a helicopter pilot, and Sam Nichols didn't magically become a ground-pounder.  OFP let people play different roles by being different characters in different missions.  Now what if that functionality were integrated into a single mission?

To use OFP characters as an example, imagine a mission where you play as Gastovski.  Your objective is to sneak into an enemy base and destroy the Shilkas to clear the way for air support in an impending attack.  Once that is clear, you could have the option of selecting Nichols, and blowing up enemy armor from the air in the ensuing assault.  Or perhaps you could select Hammer instead and go toe-to-toe with the remaining tanks.  Once the armor is softened up, then maybe you could select Armstrong and head a final infantry attack to overrun the enemy base and clear out survivors.  The idea here is that rather than separate all that into separate missions with arbitrary objectives, you could have obvious and immediate consequences to your actions.  If Gastovski misses a Shilka you don't "lose" the mission and have to restart.  However, your air support is going to have a bad day unless you clear it out as Hammer, or maybe dodge around it as Nichols.  If your work as Hammer and or Nichols is particularly effective, then your work as Armstrong becomes significantly easier fighting against a critically weakend enemy.

It would be kind of like stringing multiple missions together, and how well you win or lose a mission determines how the next one will go.  This also has the benefit that different stages in the mission will not go exactly the same every time.  And you'd never be playing multiple roles with the same character, so Armstrong is not going to jump into a helicopter and start flying.  Rather, you'd be playing different characters in different stages of the mission.  And by doing so, the characters would all actually have some bearing on each other, rather than in OFP where each character was basically in his own little world on each mission.

Granted, that's just speculation, but it sure makes more sense to me than assuming BIS will just throw away years of work to make a Counterstrike clone.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

As far as i'm concerned, anyone is welcome to join the Ofp community as long as they behave. I don't give a fuck if they're former Bf2 players.

And what difference does it make if there will be multiple difficulty settings or not? It's already in Ofp. Run the game in cadet mode with everything turned on and the game will be just as arcade as Bf2. Those of you who can't stand arcade and mainstream players should perhaps use veteran mode and stick to private servers. I know I will.

[klasodeth 0]

Guys, Im reading the posts who semi-support the difficulty levels to allow BOZOS enter the OFP community.. and I dont believe you guys!!

First of all, MAINSTREAMERS and ENTHUSIASM are totally different things, black/white, hot/cold, dead/alive got it?? there is no way to link them... missions they(bozos) like always fast paced and action oriented, OFP fans are used to wait for minutes only for taking another step in whole mission, we plan, we think and when we win we enjoy the VICTORY, kill table is nothing for us!

IF BIS wants to make another CLONE, ITS JUST FINE, its their game and they can do what ever they want. BUT OFP FANS SHOULD NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING LESS THAN OFP STANDARTS

If I were the manager of BIS, and drooling for the pie of "average FPS market" then I would sell two copies of ArmA, just like VBS and OFP,

Mainstream players are not automatically bozos.  In fact, your description of bozos sounds more like the typical hardcore gamer, rather than the so-called mainstream gamer.  The hardcore gamers/bozos/whatever are the types that memorize every nook and cranny of a map, shoot at every pixel that wasn't there the previous round, and figure out exactly how long it takes to get from Point A to Point B and fire a rocket at some arbitrary point in space perfectly timed to kill enemy players running in from the exact same spawn point they start at every single round.

My definition of a mainstream gamer is someone who has to work for a living, does not have six years of his or her life to devote to becoming a professional soldier in a digital army, and who plays games for entertainment--not for frustration.  For those people who would like to enjoy the story in Armed Assault, and do not have four uninterrupted hours to play a single mission, I see nothing wrong with having lesser difficulty levels (in the single-player campaign).  Besides, in my own experience, I've found that games with multiple difficulty levels make it much easier to learn the skills necessary to play the game at maximum difficulty.

And nobody ever said that the multiplayer had to be changed to accommodate bozos.  Heck, I'd take great personal satisfaction in watching all those bozos jump into an Armed Assault server and have their "mad gaming skillz" fail them in a real simulation.  After all, any player worth his salt would have already hand-picked some reliable buddies to team up with, so that all the bozos are downrange.  I sure wouldn't rely on random players popping in to support my team.

[maxqubit 1]

A ferrari with automatic gear isn't a 'bad' car. It just has 'automatic' gear which can be turned off.

The fuzz some ppl make.

Bis has to (and imho WILL) make the ferrari which is Arma. We will wait impatiently:)

[noccie 0]

the only thing that caught my attention here was

release fall 2006

goddamn &é"'Äůµ&é" !!

i always ignored people saying BIS was playing with our balls by delaying the release over and over again.

But this is over the top...when can we expect the game?

Maybe 21 of december..1day before the winter starts?

i really hope some publisher releases a good game and draws 90% of ofp fans before arma gets released now..would be a good way to show BIS that the world doesnt wait for them.

BIS dev : "Whee we made a "new" game..but we only sold 200copies in 1 year..I wonder why?"

[llauma 0]

The conclusions I make from that article is that ArmA simply won't be any more realistic than OFP. They wont add multiple gunner positions, realistic damage models, more advanced physics etc. So they call it a mainstream game so that people won't be too tough in their reviews when it becomes clear that the game isn't as near as realistic as a mil sim should be in 2006.

On otherhand, it was quite expected that ArmA wouldn't offer more realistic vehicles and damage models, judging by the released screenshots. It's OFP:E with the game2 gfx engine + some other game2 features. I'm sure that the OFP fans will still love the game but it won't be a masterpiece like OFP mainly because they are holding back on many of the features. Game2 is still their first priority.

[grayace 2]

Guys, Im reading the posts who semi-support the difficulty levels to allow BOZOS enter the OFP community.. and I dont believe you guys!!

Mainstream players are not automatically bozos. In fact, your description of bozos sounds more like the typical hardcore gamer, rather than the so-called mainstream gamer. The hardcore gamers/bozos/whatever are the types that memorize every nook and cranny of a map, shoot at every pixel that wasn't there the previous round, and figure out exactly how long it takes to get from Point A to Point B and fire a rocket at some arbitrary point in space perfectly timed to kill enemy players running in from the exact same spawn point they start at every single round.

My definition of a mainstream gamer is someone who has to work for a living, does not have six years of his or her life to devote to becoming a professional soldier in a digital army, and who plays games for entertainment--not for frustration. For those people who would like to enjoy the story in Armed Assault, and do not have four uninterrupted hours to play a single mission, I see nothing wrong with having lesser difficulty levels (in the single-player campaign). Besides, in my own experience, I've found that games with multiple difficulty levels make it much easier to learn the skills necessary to play the game at maximum difficulty.

And nobody ever said that the multiplayer had to be changed to accommodate bozos. Heck, I'd take great personal satisfaction in watching all those bozos jump into an Armed Assault server and have their "mad gaming skillz" fail them in a real simulation. After all, any player worth his salt would have already hand-picked some reliable buddies to team up with, so that all the bozos are downrange. I sure wouldn't rely on random players popping in to support my team.

mate, refering to "difficulty modifier" is mishandling of situation, the problem is, if OFP going to lose it's current detail level or gain more...

Is there anyway to "accomodate" these undiciplined guys without giving away the current hard rules like playing slow and patiently?? I think not

The main problem is, MOST of the people in this forum are looking for more detail and more immersive game, so the PROBLEM is, if BIS going to focus on MAINSTREAMERS _or_ focus on SIMMERS??

and I also work for a living, I have only 1 or 2 hour in every two days to play computer games, and no matter how hard it is I will always choose the simulation kind games.

PS: Bozo means fool or empty headed..

[NeMeSiS 11]

It's OFP:E with the game2 gfx engine + some other game2 features.

The screenshots of Game2 look FAR better...

Its just an upgraded OFP:E, damn, i hoped for some nice features from VBS1...

[klasodeth 0]

mate, refering to "difficulty modifier" is mishandling of situation, the problem is, if OFP going to lose it's current detail level or gain more...

Is there anyway to "accomodate" these undiciplined guys without giving away the current hard rules like playing slow and patiently?? I think not

The main problem is, MOST of the people in this forum are looking for more detail and more immersive game, so the PROBLEM is, if BIS going to focus on MAINSTREAMERS _or_ focus on SIMMERS??

and I also work for a living, I have only 1 or 2 hour in every two days to play computer games, and no matter how hard it is I will always choose the simulation kind games.

PS: Bozo means fool or empty headed..

OK, I think I understand what you're saying now.  I definitely an NOT willing to sacrifice detail to accommodate mainstream gamers.  Even in the case of multiple difficulty levels, I envision modest reductions on enemy awareness, accuracy, and kill probablility, just to make it a little easier on people who are willing to learn how to play an OFP-style game.  The idea is that minor mistakes would be more easily survivable (but still require medical assistance), but truly stupid mistakes, such as charging headfirst into the enemy, will still result in the inevitable death screen.  The player would still have to learn to be patient and cautious, just with a somewhat milder penalty during the learning phase.

Any change that allows the player to ignore the intended style of gameplay presented in OFP is definitely NOT welcome.

Now here's a question: Who here has played OFP:Elite on the Xbox, and what do they think of it compared to the PC version of OFP? Video game consoles are about as far removed from sim-gaming as one can expect, and if OFP gameplay was preserved there (even after having years of development time to give in to the arcade crowd), then that's an encouraging sign for the fate of Armed Assault.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Now here's a question: Who here has played OFP:Elite on the Xbox, and what do they think of it compared to the PC version of OFP? Video game consoles are about as far removed from sim-gaming as one can expect, and if OFP gameplay was preserved there (even after having years of development time to give in to the arcade crowd), then that's an encouraging sign for the fate of Armed Assault.

Hmm.. The game feels pretty much the same as Ofp on the pc exept that everything has been improved alot.

But there are some issues, things I think most of you already know about. There is autoaim and I don't think you can turn that fkin crap of. The campaign voice acting is horrible. Most of the animations are laughable.

But if ArmA will be "nothing more than" an improved version of Ofp Elite I won't complain too much. I never expected more of it anyway.

[EiZei 0]

There is autoaim and I don't think you can turn that fkin crap of.

Actually you can turn it off but of course this makes playing pretty much impossible unless you own one of these babies:

[grayace 2]

OK, I think I understand what you're saying now. I definitely an NOT willing to sacrifice detail to accommodate mainstream gamers. Even in the case of multiple difficulty levels, I envision modest reductions on enemy awareness, accuracy, and kill probablility, just to make it a little easier on people who are willing to learn how to play an OFP-style game. The idea is that minor mistakes would be more easily survivable (but still require medical assistance), but truly stupid mistakes, such as charging headfirst into the enemy, will still result in the inevitable death screen. The player would still have to learn to be patient and cautious, just with a somewhat milder penalty during the learning phase.

Any change that allows the player to ignore the intended style of gameplay presented in OFP is definitely NOT welcome.

Now here's a question: Who here has played OFP:Elite on the Xbox, and what do they think of it compared to the PC version of OFP? Video game consoles are about as far removed from sim-gaming as one can expect, and if OFP gameplay was preserved there (even after having years of development time to give in to the arcade crowd), then that's an encouraging sign for the fate of Armed Assault.

yep, that's why Im crying out so loud... there are so many shooters in the market but OFP is unique, while others have to be more OFP like why ArmA should get similar to them?? for example, in BF2 they have got quite good implemented Wire Guided TOW missiles for AH-1Ws...

so, as we all agreed, we need more details to work with especially for vehicular combat aspect, there is nothing about Electronic Warfare in our hands now... They should be working on that if they want to create something decent.

And, I doubt that those guys are willing to learn anything about organized combat... I have witnessed so many people leaving OFP after few plays for good. Because what they are looking for isnt there, there is no point lowering it a little bit because they will not get it unless OFP is much similar to BF... I think that BIS should increase the curve upwards more and create a ultimate warfare simulation

[Scrub 0]

They are giving us a COMPLETE (ok, as complete as we have yet seen in the entire industry) warfare engine.

-Have no time and want to play a 15min BF3+ (ish) deathmatch (Personally.. *pukes*)?  No problem, you will now be able to find an ArmA server out there like that.

-Have 8 hours and have the need to lead teams of marines through a jungle to capture a fortified base with tactical air and arty? Oh, and with no floating pointers, waypoints, damage reduction, and with increased AI perception, ironsights, fatigue, ad nauseum... Again, No problem, you will now be able to find an ArmA server out there like that.

See a pattern? You want it, you got it.

*Now here's really what it means to us.*

BIS getting more people hooked on their products means they will, hopefully, be flush with cash and can do an absolutely killer job on all future projects.

Fall is a disapointment, but if it means a better product...

Go BIS Go  

[maxqubit 1]

OFP:E is an improvement over OFP there is no doubt about that for me. And ArmA will improve on OFP:E

A lot of you guys have never touched the OFP:E installment and 'think' it is a lesser OFP, well time isn't running backwards, OFP:E is the better Flashpoint.

Give me OFPE with more view distance, higher res, full blown mission editor, JIP (is already in OFPE), more units (construction point limit) and mods ... and i'm a very happy gamer.

But, yes, i'm a console gamer. More relaxed, loving the controller, but i don't feel being a retard or dumbed down gamer. OFP:E is a precious jewel running on a very moderate system. Imho it is a kind of ArmA-lite. You want a demo? You know what, it's already here:)

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I tried to tell everyone there wouldn't be multiple gunner positions, no commander MGs, but no... "bah... what does he know?"

(Just had to get that out of my system).

If AA is a disappointment, I'm just going to stick to ole OFP and put Llauma's heads on EVERYTHING. Then, I'll run it with ECP and that DMA cargo firing script, with my 7900GTX - it'll be BETTER than AA!

[Chunder 0]

Well, i spose i'm the same as many others. I am a fan of the op fp genre and as such looking forward to it's release. Whilst trying not to take a simplistic view of the circumstances, and whilst looking forward to the game as such my main issue is with the new release date: fall 2006.

Whilst I understand that it is probably a necessity I can see some bad Public Relations happening, without a doubt. I see a discrepancy in regards to the community getting information through third party sources and posting on a BIS sponsored forum. I would have thought that using the web-page set up a bit better would perhaps more helpfull to the community image of BIS.

Although have said that I see some discrepancies in the community itself - this community seems to speculate itself to death whilst not acknowledging the commercial reality as opposed to gaming ideology in regards to releasing of material. Il2 Forgotten battles is a good example of both novice and expert gamers running off the same system (hyperlobby) It is quite acheivable.

However, having said that; getting my information from the community just isn't working for me personally. I would have liked a better approach wherby I could easily see the progress being made on the game for those genuinely interested in the game - not necessarily with screenshots or otherwise but maybe a percentage indicator & story line. As an interested individual, i find it hard to come to these forums and discuss in a mature format what i'm looking forward to in the game etc - and the reality is we will now be discussing it for another 6 months. Not making any pleas as everyone has to accept reality - but personally I won't be sticking around for another 6 months doing this. I do like the game genre and I like the work, I think at present however since I'm 'hungry' for another good release It might be that I buy another game to satisfy my appetite - not that that effects anything with BIS of course, I think the danger is for BIS to release in 6 months time, that the market will be hungry for the opfp type genre, after a long wait, and that might (only might) damage BIS sales. Thing is, I'm long overdue for another sim, and as a consumer, i'm looking for some fun, I won't be waiting for 6 more months for a preferred genre. I'm not sure if these are only my personal sentiments, I thought i'd air them for what they were worth however.

Honestly though, I don't see anypoint about whipping oneself up into a frenzy about the proposed style of game play. As I sad above it works quite well with IL2 Forgotten Battles - One of the communities might wish to get in contact with jiri fojtasek of hyperlobby and ask for armed assault support - as hyperlobby has a better class of players.

Long and the short of it is, is that i'm off elsewhere, I will probably buy arma when it comes out but have less time for it.

Good luck in your developement and heres to a successfull game, and also to those that share the anticipation with me

Chunder.

[grayace 2]

I tried to tell everyone there wouldn't be multiple gunner positions, no commander MGs, but no... "bah... what does he know?"

(Just had to get that out of my system).

If AA is a disappointment, I'm just going to stick to ole OFP and put Llauma's heads on EVERYTHING. Then, I'll run it with ECP and that DMA cargo firing script, with my 7900GTX - it'll be BETTER than AA!

Agreed mate, if we are not going to see more DETAILS, I mean something to dig deep, then community will concentrate on what we have and what we could implement (ECP is kind of OFP v1.5 already) there will be more intensive and detailed MODs for ArmA I think, but WHAT WE WANT TO SEE IS, BIS SHOULD HAVE IMPLEMENTED THOSE DETAILS rather than concentrating on a FLEXIBLE OFP for bozos...

Lets hold our breath for 2 more years, to see GAME 2, if the general designer is ideally aligned with the former OFP designer then we can have what we were always looking for, Otherwise pah, DID ANYONE SEE what happened to Transport Tycoon?? Chris Sawyer has developed a new version of it under the name of Locomotion but community developed a OpenTTD and no surprise that OpenTTD is far better than Locomotion in many aspects as well as drawing much more attention than Locomotion does.

Briefly, there is no point in trying to increase sales by giving room to inferior clients but implementing much more detail...