ArmA available for linux ?

[Homefry 0]

Well, where did you get that 10% from, from microsoft's site?

It's impossible to tell how many linux-users there are, as it's free, and downloadable from many places, there are no records. Microsoft knows how many licenses it sold...

According to http://counter.li.org/estimates.php there are 29 million linux users. Let's say 10% of them use it constantly including for gaming. that would be 2.9 billion potential linux-Arma players.

You moved the decimal point in the wrong direction...

[M4XSs 0]

Well, where did you get that 10% from, from microsoft's site?

It's impossible to tell how many linux-users there are, as it's free, and downloadable from many places, there are no records. Microsoft knows how many licenses it sold...

According to http://counter.li.org/estimates.php there are 29 million linux users. Let's say 10% of them use it constantly including for gaming. that would be 2.9 billion potential linux-Arma players.

I wouldn’t blame them if they don’t, because targeting such amount of users looks silly these days, and if you learn about other software houses experience with porting their products to Linux such adobe, you will end up with a scary conclusion! (For them)

0 or no sales!

Maybe Gnu/linux a fully qualified for server or desktop use, but seriously it needs time to be a 2nd choice for such developments which is gaming in this case!

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

I wouldn’t blame them if they don’t, because targeting such amount of users looks silly these days, and if you learn about other software houses experience with porting their products to Linux such adobe, you will end up with a scary conclusion! (For them)

0 or no sales!

Maybe Gnu/linux a fully qualified for server or desktop use, but seriously it needs time to be a 2nd choice for such developments which is gaming in this case!

With respect; do you really think that id software, Epic Games, the U.S. Army, BioWare and S2 Games would continue to invest as much as they have in cross platform game development if they thought that it was a complete waste of time and money? Think about it. id software has been at this for nearly 10 years now. Epic for 3 or 4. The US Army for 2 or 3, anyway. These are organizations with very smart people working for them. You ever think that maybe, just maybe, they might know what they are doing and it's the rest of the industry that needs to catch up?

[scfan42 0]

Epic and US Army have their Linux/Mac OS X ports done by Icculus, who seems to make a living off of doing these ports. I don't think he rewrites the engines to OpenGL (UE2.0/2.5 is natively DirectX), but he does the rest of the porting job.

I'm also very interested in a native Linux client. Having the game in OpenGL would give BIS a more "future-proof" option if MS magically kicks the bucket or something. And it'd help once Linux gains a larger market share.

Perhaps we should do a poll asking "What OS would you prefer to play OFP/ArmA on, assuming a perfect port was made for that OS?" I'd guess that non-windoze would get at least 20%. Not to mention that, if a port was made, most Mac/Linux gamers would probably hear about it since there aren't as many games for non-windoze.

[noccie 0]

A linux client wouldnt bring in enough money to warrant its development, but that doesnt mean linux can be ignored.

ArmA needs good stable linux servercode from release,so there are alot of servers to play on and choose from.

Anyone who played before the linux server was released will

know what i mean.

AND the linux server should be kept up to date regarding patches...look at opf, how many do actually use 1.96c? Only a few servers out of hundreds...all because it is a windows only patch

Maybe for game 2 a linux version could be worth it..depending how the linuxmarket grows (both users and military)

[M4XSs 0]

I wouldn’t blame them if they don’t, because targeting such amount of users looks silly these days, and if you learn about other software houses experience with porting their products to Linux such adobe, you will end up with a scary conclusion! (For them)

0 or no sales!

Maybe Gnu/linux a fully qualified for server or desktop use, but seriously it needs time to be a 2nd choice for such developments which is gaming in this case!

With respect; do you really think that id software, Epic Games, the U.S. Army, BioWare and S2 Games would continue to invest as much as they have in cross platform game development if they thought that it was a complete waste of time and money? Think about it. id software has been at this for nearly 10 years now. Epic for 3 or 4. The US Army for 2 or 3, anyway. These are organizations with very smart people working for them. You ever think that maybe, just maybe, they might know what they are doing and it's the rest of the industry that needs to catch up?

I m really interested in seeing how many copies been soled for each port!

Unlike you I was thinking of bis 2, adopting OpenGl instead of direct3d for cross platform development needs time, training and money and that’s too late for arma.

Because the game will be out in few months as I see!

Plus I m really interested in a linux port of the game but I love to be realistic!

In the future that’s a must but ITS TOO LATE FOR arma unless bis have other opinion!

[void_false 1]

I vote for Linux!

I think all companies should make their products not only for one platform. That's why I bought mobo and video card with nVidia's chipsets. In future plannig to buy official DooM3 and it's expansion pack.

I'm showing my respect toward these companies by not using "other ways" to obtain their products

[andersson 285]

I would gladly uninstall windows if Arma could be run on Linux. The ONLY reason for me to have windows is OFP.

A friend of mine thinks that windows is the biggest problem with ofp.

Its sad that you "must" use windows for games..

[Kode 0]

I wouldn’t blame them if they don’t, because targeting such amount of users looks silly these days, and if you learn about other software houses experience with porting their products to Linux such adobe, you will end up with a scary conclusion! (For them)

0 or no sales!

Maybe Gnu/linux a fully qualified for server or desktop use, but seriously it needs time to be a 2nd choice for such developments which is gaming in this case!

well, but you are forgetting their are alot of free alternatives for adobe programs such as photoshop and other adobeproducts which are definately not bad.

I won't blame BIS for not doing so either, they won't be able to do so with Arma in anyway, however I'd like to see them to do it for future games, such as game2.

Also don't forget the server market has a very high linux-usage , mainly because of the good security and the cost of linux, which is 0...

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

I m really interested in seeing how many copies been soled for each port!

Unlike you I was thinking of bis 2, adopting OpenGl instead of direct3d for cross platform development needs time, training and money and that’s too late for arma.

Because the game will be out in few months as I see!

Plus I m really interested in a linux port of the game but I love to be realistic!

In the future that’s a must but ITS TOO LATE FOR arma unless bis have other opinion!

I was looking over this thread again this morning. I just realized that I never did make clear that I understood that it was never feasible to build a Linux/Mac OSX port for Armed Assault. Sorry about that.

The point that I was making was that on the surface, the absolute numbers for potential sales into such a small market segment may make it seem like a waste of resources to develop anything for the *nix platform. However, that ignores several factors (most of which came up earlier in this thread):

<ul>* Mac and Linux users tend to be early adopters that are looked to by others for opinions for what is worthwhile.

* Mac and Linux gamers don't have the range of good games available that Windows users do, so they jump at the chance to play good games when they are available.

* Code that is written to be cross platform (or at least portable) tends to be clean code, which means a reduced maintenance burden over time, which translates into a higher profit margin. Or do you think all the patches that BIS have released over the past five years were done for free? (joke. I know you know otherwise.)

*The combined Linux/Mac share of the desktop is still pretty small, but it is growing. Some measures show it to be growing very fast indeed. In any case, we're clearly pretty much past the pioneer stage and moving into the early adopter stage. Now is a good time for software companies to be at least thinking about supporting this market.

Some personal background: I've been playing OpFlash off and on (mostly off) for a very long time. I bought the UK CD and had it shipped to the US before you could buy it here. I never did pick up the expansion packs when they came out because I'm not much of an SP player. I will say that the AA announcement inspired me to put OpFlash back on my Windows partition and start running through the SP campaign again. (I also ordered the GOTY edition yesterday. )

I'm a clanleader of a bunch of guys who prefer to play games that encourage teamwork natively. We also tend to prefer games that are well balanced, and provide combined arms play that isn't completely dominated by vehicles. Back when OpFlash came out, I was looking for a game that my clan might be interested in for some competitive play, that was still fun to just play on public servers. The lack of Join In Progress and the initially bad netcode put us off the game at the time and we went looking elsewhere. Even after the netcode issues were at least minimized, the lack of JIP still kept me from playing the game. I'm a dad with two kids, so my nights are pretty thoroughly booked. When I get a chance to sit down for an hour or two of online gaming, I don't want to wait 30 minutes or more for the next round to start.

I've also been a Linux user since '95 or '96. Back then, I was dual booting to game all the time. I still dual boot, but now I do so only when I have to. I would much rather play a native Linux game, as my system is far more stable, easier to maintain, easier to maintain decent security, and just generally cleaner on the Linux side. Much less to worry about overall.

Anyhow, way back when I was playing OpFlash regularly, I was posting on this board as "sgtrock". I've forgotten my password and changed ISPs since then, so I had to create a new account. There was more than one thread that I contributed to that talked about the possibility of playing OpFlash under Linux even then, so all the issues about porting the code came out. Once I found out about the heavy dependence upon DirectX, it was clear to me that the odds were very small that any game based upon this engine would ever be ported to *nix. It would cost far too much and take far too long to replace all that graphics and sound code.

At the moment, several of my clanmates are playing BF2 for lack of a better combined arms option. I've tried it out, but I'm not personally all that thrilled with it. EA has taken the BF42-BF:V franchise in a direction that I just don't like. It's not just the dolphin divers. I hate the fact that the only way that you can run a successful server is to pay a boatload of money for a rated one. I've got a server already. I don't need to pay someone else for colocation space.

Every now and again, I'd haul out my OpFlash CD and think, "So much promise spoiled by such dumb problems!" (the JIP and netcode issues, not the lack of Linux) Also, more than one of the guys have expressed interest in OpFlash 2 over the years. I know that Armed Assault is really OpFlash 1.5, and that whatever BIS builds next will probably be named something like AA2. There is a strong possibility that my clanmates will be interested in playing AA and AA2. My motivation for posting to this thread is realistically more about raising the cross platform issue for BIS again and hopefully, getting them to at least think about how to build AA2 so it can be cross platform from the beginning. Failing that, at least make it as easy as possible to port so they could farm out the work to someone like Icculus.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread (and in this message), portable code is generally clean code. I think that's true because a development team has to spend some more time in up front design to deal with things like isolating the OS specific pieces, figuring out what frameworks exist to make your job easier, what parts absolutely must be your code. All that work means that the team has addressed a lot of the hard conceptual work up front that otherwise might be ignored.

Let's face it. BIS has some very, very talented programmers working for them. They did things when they were writing their code in 1999/2000 that I don't think anyone thought was possible at the time. I certainly wasn't expecting anything like OpFlash to come out in 2001, even after I had played Tribes and Delta Force:Land Warrior around 1998/99. I fully expect that if they chose to, they could build a portable game that would blow the competition right out of the water. And, as a smaller development house, if they can do so and pick up some more sales in a very influential part of the market, why shouldn't they at least consider it?

[M4XSs 0]

@Kode

Adobe was just a sample, and i used lots of those alternatives , the point there is some software firms scared that they wont benefit from porting their products to other platforms such Mac or linux.

@SgtRock

Its nice to share your experience with ofp, i respect that and i hope we still have some chance with the 2nd game by bis, and thats what i m really interested in!

but for arma .. no can do

I have that feeling that bis didn't have such plans for arma for linux from the beginning.

Its just a feeling after all.

[scfan42 0]

One other factor I just remembed is military interest. How many militaries would rather have an OpenGL instead of DirectX? BIS could even make a "VBS OS" running an optimized Linux distro that boots straight into VBS.

Just for some rough stats, I pulled download numbers for the three versions of America's Army from aafiles.com. According to that about 13% of the downloads are for Mac/Linux, with more Linux downloads by about 800.

[MiKom 0]

I would also like to see future BiS games available for linux. I'm running Gentoo system for 3 years and now I'm so used to it that working on Windows annoys me a lot. Unfortuneatly i still have to dualboot because of games :/

ID software and Epic realised that linux gamers community is getting stronger. They make these ports as a future investment. Even now they got all the money they invested on ports back and soon it will start to make profit as community grows. And again, say you are a game developer. You start a new project of stunning game. Now, you have two ways:

1. You can make game on DirectX and have the target limited only for Windows users.

2. You can make game on OpenGL, OpenAL, libSDL (you name it) with the same quality (eye candys, performance) and with the wider target of Windows, linux, Mac, BSD users

When you start developing a new game the cost of both ways is exactly the same (implying microsoft is not paying for choosing DirectX or giving you something for free (Xbox SDK??) what for me is unfair and seems like immoral usage of monopoly) but the target is wider. The only thing you have to do is recompiling the game under target platform (and maybe some minor changes in the code). If you are thinking, you choose the second way which means higher profits now, and in the future.

And please, think about libSDL (Simple DirectMedia Layer). And don't get fooled with this "Simple" in the name. The library is complex enough to run games like Quake IV, Doom 3, Unreal Tournament and Neverwinter Nigths under linux as well as on Windows. It provides acces to controllers similar to DirectInput and has sound layer like DirectSound with diffrent outputs.

[FatNinjaKid 0]

I have been using the UBUNTU distro for about one month now and I must say it is really no big deal! You download the CD, burn it, install Linux parallel to Windows. Then you just follow the step-by-step instructions on how to install drivers and codecs and such. It takes about 2-3 hours and ...voila... you got Linux. I really don't consider myself much of a tech-freak so if I could do it, almost anyone should be able to do it.

So ArmA for Linux? If it is not too much of an effort - yes please!

(If you want to try it out, you can download beginner-friendly UBUNTU here)

[thorgal 0]

Well ...

I have been running OFP servers for my clan and FCM league for some time on linux boxes. Then lack of support forced me to install windows and install server on it (problems with newer kernels and libs and lack of time to fight with that) To be honest I am more then disappointed with the one I own now. Lack of proper event handling, error handling, logging ... to just name few things that I dislike. That makes running the ofp serwer more then painful (linux version also lacks alot) I had also my share in adventure with running ofp on cedega/wine with success (small problems with slugishness)

Day after day I use alot of different OS's (linux,BSD,Solaris,windows to just name the few) and having a choice I would gladly delete windows installations. So far no luck with that I play Ofp on emulator or windows.

Simple lack of great number of game titles NOW does not mean it won't change soon. NVidia and Ati create drivers for their cards for linux OS ... that means they see the need and benefit of doing so. UT engine is set for Linux and by far it is the most popular game engine Dues to trends in US gaming industry (to drain as much money as possible ie. by forcing players to pay again for things they've already did) players divert from M$ platform to something less muggerish (in my opinion )

T.

[jafarin 0]

No linux users? It is easy to fix. Make own linux distro for ArmA and put it on game box. There is big possibilities.

Have you used Damn Small Linux or LinEx? DSL takes only 64MB from CD. Of course problem will be drivers, but hell, some one should start it.

[void_false 1]

No linux users? It is easy to fix. Make own linux distro for ArmA and put it on game box. There is big possibilities.

Have you used Damn Small Linux or LinEx? DSL takes only 64MB from CD. Of course problem will be drivers, but hell, some one should start it.

If you run games on DSL then you're true l33t h4x0r.

[Otomo 0]

My vote fot AA for linux too. I reserved a AA copy on my favourite games shop. But it will remain on the bookcase until it works with Cedega (It is not a emulator, is a software layer to translate APIs or something similar, a emulator would be even more slow) or a native client is released.

[void_false 1]

My vote fot AA for linux too. I reserved a AA copy on my favourite games shop. But it will remain on the bookcase until it works with Cedega (It is not a emulator, is a software layer to translate APIs or something similar, a emulator would be even more slow) or a native client is released.

Cedega is too much! Go Wine!

BTW had same thoughts. Just didnt want to tell them out loud.

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

We won't see ArmedA on Linux. Not natively, anyway. This is still based upon the original OpFlash code, which, as I mentioned earlier, has a heavy dependence upon DirectX. It's just not worth BI's time to rewrite the engine from scratch for this game.

The best that we can hope for is to convince them that the Linux and MacOS market is getting large enough for them to take into account for the next game. Failing that, hopefully we can talk them into the game after that.

[Lange 0]

i dont care for linux client versions. if they are there - good. if not, who cares.

BUT what is extremely important for all client is the amount of present servers! without server you wont play online.

ofp did show us what happens if the community has no proper linux server version. the ofp scene shrinked to a little underdeveloped bunch of last-standing-freaks bu the public has turned its back to ofp.

its pretty - REALLY PRETTY!!! - stupid to count on windows server binaries. first, most professional hosters DO NOT USE windows servers (needs more ressources as linux server to get the same result, license costs are infinitely higher then linux "licenses", administration is not as powerful as under linux (in coe you can administrate a linux game cluster via 9600bps and a pda, try this with your "remote desktop"). but most important: there are lots more linux gameservers out there as windows servers.

good example: take all windows gameservers of all games together and you wont have as much as linux halflife servers. but there are linux hl and hl2 servers, linux q2/3/4 servers, doom3 server also on linux and so on.

and now tell us why the heck you ignoring the requirement to release maintenance and update linux server binaries at least as fast and good as any windows server binaries if not even the linux server binaries are lots more important since more hosters (as us for example) use linux in the first....

Simon Lange

CEO Rack IT Solutions

CEO theCENTER netWork

[jafarin 0]

No linux users? It is easy to fix. Make own linux distro for ArmA and put it on game box. There is big possibilities.

Have you used Damn Small Linux or LinEx? DSL takes only 64MB from CD. Of course problem will be drivers, but hell, some one should start it.

If you run games on DSL then you're true l33t h4x0r.

What you mean? No game for DSL? Check what MyDSL repository offers, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, FreeCiv and so. I gave DSL as example.

Problem is that binarycode what is compiled to one distro might not work with other distro. Solution for that is own distro which is just made for gaming.

[Crazy_lenny 0]

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=64;t=52342

Placebo asked to rephrase my question in the right topic (here)

Hi dear ofp fans,

I assume that BIS will release a linux server for Arma (maybe not directly with the release, but I guess certainly after a while) .

Can any of the developpers tell us on which shared libc6 library it will be based? The ofp linux server for example isn't compatible with recent versions of this specific library.

This might be usefull information for linux admins, who want to run both ofp and arma on their machines.

Any answer is much appreciated.

Thanks!

[X-Rolando 0]

I for one would not be especially impressed by a delayed linux dedicated server release. I'm also hoping for a "proper" standalone package this time around (rather than you having to transfer files from a windows installation).

[ Hang on a second, when did they throw in this smiley? ]

[hoak 0]

Incorporating an OpenGL renderer, even a DirectX game late in development is far from impossible and depending on how the game is coded may not even be that difficult. The opportunity cost of making such an effort (if the time and talent are available) can easily pay for the cost of development in expanding the platform choice the game product can be offered on....

OpenGL is 'open' and makes a game easily portable across many more platforms then just Window, Linux and OS/X... There are hundreds of alternative Operating Systems, flavors of UNIX, and several game consoles that support OpenGL directly -- many have free commercial support, or enthusiast talent that help expediting porting efforts (which is pretty smooth and easy with OpenGL in the first place).

Armed Assault, or any commercial game on Linux has additional and unique technical and marketing opportunity Windows doesn't offer that can help with success... A Linux game for example can ship with a free customized OS which can even be in the form of a 'live media' distribution requiring no user installation or configuration...  Integrating game and OS distributions can offer other unique technical benefits like encrypted virtual file systems that make cheating and piracy very difficult, help simplify and unify installation and so on...

I'm no rabid Linux 'Fan Boy' (I still use Windows), but it should be pretty obvious to everyone that the writing is on the wall when:

·  The most populous countries on the planet are establishing just about every infrastructure, from utilities, education, and industry on Linux...

·  Linux/UNIX incorporates and sets the standards of most scientific, commercial and industrial data structure...

·  Linux has long met or surpassed Windows in feature parity, ease of setup and use, security, stability, fault tolerance and robustness...

·  Microsoft's next generation OS 'product' is a bloated 'feature float' of superficial 'features & benefits' that costs a fortune that delivers no real new technology or objecitvely defineable benifits...

Game Developers that have a leg up on open standards like OpenGL definitely have a leg up on some of the largest and most untapped markets on the planet, and a new market being remade everywhere...