Travel to Mars in 3 hours!

[D.murphy man 0]

Well first off, i was reading the paper and a small intresting article came up about a possible new star treck like engine scientists are investigating that could make a trip to mars possible in 3 hours and a trip to the closest knowen solar system in 3 months! I did a quick search on google and found this more detailed article about it:

Quote[/b] ]Welcome to Mars express: journey time three hours

IAN JOHNSTON SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT

AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.

The hypothetical device, which has been outlined in principle but is based on a controversial theory about the fabric of the universe, could potentially allow a spacecraft to travel to Mars in three hours and journey to a star 11 light years away in just 80 days, according to a report in today's New Scientist magazine.

The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that, according to ideas first developed by the late scientist Burkhard Heim in the 1950s, would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.

Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.

The US air force has expressed an interest in the idea and scientists working for the American Department of Energy - which has a device known as the Z Machine that could generate the kind of magnetic fields required to drive the engine - say they may carry out a test if the theory withstands further scrutiny.

Professor Jochem Hauser, one of the scientists who put forward the idea, told The Scotsman that if everything went well a working engine could be tested in about five years.

However, Prof Hauser, a physicist at the Applied Sciences University in Salzgitter, Germany, and a former chief of aerodynamics at the European Space Agency, cautioned it was based on a highly controversial theory that would require a significant change in the current understanding of the laws of physics.

"It would be amazing. I have been working on propulsion systems for quite a while and it would be the most amazing thing. The benefits would be almost unlimited," he said.

"But this thing is not around the corner; we first have to prove the basic science is correct and there are quite a few physicists who have a different opinion.

"It's our job to prove we are right and we are working on that."

He said the engine would enable spaceships to travel to different solar systems. "If the theory is correct then this is not science fiction, it is science fact," Prof Hauser said.

"NASA have contacted me and next week I'm going to see someone from the [uS] air force to talk about it further, but it is at a very early stage. I think the best-case scenario would be within the next five years [to build a test device] if the technology works."

The US authorities' attention was attracted after Prof Hauser and an Austrian colleague, Walter Droscher, wrote a paper called "Guidelines for a space propulsion device based on Heim's quantum theory".

Linky

Link to the paper (havent tried this link yet as its a pdf and i just reformated my pc recently)

Well now thats amazing stuff! this could open up whole new possiblitys, not only for space travel, but earth as a whole. Earth quake hits some third world poor country? need help ASAP? No proplem! stick supplies and rescue teams on a hyper drive air craft and fly them there in 0.5 seconds!

Although i think it could be pretty dangerous messing around with things such as other dimensions and such.... I sure wouldnt want to be the first to test it out.

[korax 4]

Quote[/b] ]

The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.

Quote[/b] ]...the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached.

What makes them think that creating a magnetic field would at all have an effect on gravity, or would allow them to slip into another dimension? As far as I know, gravity and magnetics are two totally seperate things.

And what proof is there that the speed of light is faster in other dimensions?

Witches, all of them! Burn them at the stake!

[EiZei 0]

I know better than to trust newspapers when it comes to stuff like this.

[denoir 0]

Um, from a first glance at the article, it looks like a load of horseshit.

First of all, the Heim Quantum Theory, which this is all based upon, is far from being accepted as a valid one. Like the other unified field theories, there's no experimental data to back it up.

Second, the particles that this propulsion system are supposed to use, gravitons and graviphotons are all hypothetical particles - they have yet to be found (if they exist at all). In addition, graviphotons are misspelled as "gravitophotons".

And finally, the claims of some form of test of the theory within five years is absolute bullshit. And mind you that ESA who is at least in part funding those Aeronautic deperments in Innsbruck and Salzgitter is remarkably quiet.

Having said that however, I don't think it is a hoax or something like that. Just researchers getting a bit ahead of themselves.

New Scientist, a serious scientific journal has written an article about it as well. So it does have some credibility. NS's conclusion was:

Quote[/b] ]

So is this all fanciful nonsense, or a revolution in the making? The majority of physicists have never heard of Heim theory, and most of those contacted by New Scientist said they couldn't make sense of Dröscher and Häuser's description of the theory behind their proposed experiment. Following Heim theory is hard work even without Dröscher's extension, says Markus Pössel, a theoretical physicist at the Max Planck Institute for Gravitational Physics in Potsdam, Germany. Several years ago, while an undergraduate at the University of Hamburg, he took a careful look at Heim theory. He says he finds it "largely incomprehensible", and difficult to tie in with today's physics. "What is needed is a step-by-step introduction, beginning at modern physical concepts," he says.

The general consensus seems to be that Dröscher and Häuser's theory is incomplete at best, and certainly extremely difficult to follow. And it has not passed any normal form of peer review, a fact that surprised the AIAA prize reviewers when they made their decision. "It seemed to be quite developed and ready for such publication," Mikellides told New Scientist.

At the moment, the main reason for taking the proposal seriously must be Heim theory's uncannily successful prediction of particle masses. Maybe, just maybe, Heim theory really does have something to contribute to modern physics. "As far as I understand it, Heim theory is ingenious," says Hans Theodor Auerbach, a theoretical physicist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich who worked with Heim. "I think that physics will take this direction in the future."

It may be a long while before we find out if he's right. In its present design, Dröscher and Häuser's experiment requires a magnetic coil several metres in diameter capable of sustaining an enormous current density. Most engineers say that this is not feasible with existing materials and technology, but Roger Lenard, a space propulsion researcher at Sandia National Laboratories in New Mexico thinks it might just be possible. Sandia runs an X-ray generator known as the Z machine which "could probably generate the necessary field intensities and gradients".

For now, though, Lenard considers the theory too shaky to justify the use of the Z machine. "I would be very interested in getting Sandia interested if we could get a more perspicacious introduction to the mathematics behind the proposed experiment," he says. "Even if the results are negative, that, in my mind, is a successful experiment."

[harley 3 1185 0]

A large percentage of what we know in Physics is "theory". It's just that some theories are more accepted than others (goes without saying, duh!.

Obviously, there must be some substance to this theory otherwise New Scientist wouldn't have deigned to include it in its hallowed pages.

And if the U.S. Air Force is genuinely interested in Heims Theory (as The Scotsman reports), then the position of Sandia NL on the Z-Machine would surely change.

It'll be interesting to see whether anything comes of this talk - in the mean time I'll talk to a physicist friend who'll tell me whether it's likely or not .

[DracoPaladore 0]

Seems like a common US Goverment thing to think of these crazy ideas for giggles. Like the super soldier in 2012, who can jump from building to building and has built in optical equipment that can distinguish between targets.

Hey, it'd cost millions of dollars. But we can still dress a nerd up in this suit and impress the kids, can't we? Might as well get the physics boys up and at em.

[Myst9999 0]

Quote[/b] ]What makes them think that creating a magnetic field would at all have an effect on gravity, or would allow them to slip into another dimension? As far as I know, gravity and magnetics are two totally seperate things.

Well, ever heard of Grand Unified theory, also known as M theory, better known as the theory of everything?

Its trying to find the link betwen the 3 main forces in the universe, Electromagnetic, nuclear and gravitational forces. The link between the electromagnetic and nuclear forces is straightforward (When I say that, I mean to physicists ), but the gravitational force is the odd one out. Trouble is, they know there is a link due to various theories "proving" it, but they cant figure it out what it is.

Quote[/b] ]Seems like a common US Goverment thing to think of these crazy ideas for giggles.

Well, A computer like the one your using seemed stupid to even computer scientists a few decades ago (before Moore's Law)

What would a Victorian think of the notion of a modern computer? Balderdash and piffle methinks.

[D.murphy man 0]

hmm well looks like i should of payed more attention in my physics classes back in secondary school

[Eda Mrcoch 0]

Oooh, the enigmatic Heim strikes again. I remember time machine design utilising his contrabaric (or hyperbaric?) fields from sci-fi book I read as a kid.

He was quite an interesting persona.

[DracoPaladore 0]

Quote[/b] ]Seems like a common US Goverment thing to think of these crazy ideas for giggles.

Well, A computer like the one your using seemed stupid to even computer scientists a few decades ago (before Moore's Law)

What would a Victorian think of the notion of a modern computer? Balderdash and piffle methinks.

It's not really the concept, more or less the timeframe. They can barely decide on a new replacement rifle, let alone arm every soldier like a Warhammer Space Marine by 2012.

[denoir 0]

hmm well looks like i should of payed more attention in my physics classes back in secondary school  

Perhaps, but you're statement wasn't all that wrong. The only "grand" thing about the  Grand Unified Theory and other 'theories of everything' have been their spectacular failure so far. It's a lovely concept, but so far they're not supported by experimental data.

DracoPaladore:

Quote[/b] ]Seems like a common US Goverment thing to think of these crazy ideas for giggles. Like the super soldier in 2012, who can jump from building to building and has built in optical equipment that can distinguish between targets.

Hey, it'd cost millions of dollars. But we can still dress a nerd up in this suit and impress the kids, can't we? Might as well get the physics boys up and at em.

In this case it's not the US government - these are Austrian/German researchers funded in part by ESA (i.e my tax money).

Personally, I don't mind though. I think you should plan big. Even with a 99% failure rate, still the small amount of successes will be grand enough to make it worth the cost.

Quote[/b] ]They can barely decide on a new replacement rifle, let alone arm every soldier like a Warhammer Space Marine by 2012.

Perhaps, but you shouldn't forget the Law of Accelerating Returns, the generalization of Moore's law. Progress is exponential, and the time between technological breakthroughs (paradigm shifts) is rapidly decreasing:

[kavoven 4]

Well, ever heard of Grand Unified theory, also known as M theory, better known as the theory of everything?

Its trying to find the link betwen the 3 main forces in the universe, Electromagnetic, nuclear and gravitational forces. The link between the electromagnetic and nuclear forces is straightforward (When I say that, I mean to physicists ), but the gravitational force is the odd one out. Trouble is, they know there is a link due to various theories "proving" it, but they cant figure it out what it is.

First of all, there are 4 main forces.

The Strong Force (The force between Quarks)

The Light Force (The force of radioactivity)

The Electromagnetic Force

And The Gravitational Force

But the rest was right

The first three are already included in one single theory, I think it's the superstring theory. But the last one is far from beeing included.

The point is, that we do not know how gravity is making it's way through space.

One year ago, I visited the "best" gravity science-center called Geo600, near Hannover/Germany. They have a complex lasersystem which is so sensitive, that they can record the waves of the northsea.

The thoery says, that gravity is also travelling through space like a wave it does. However, this waves are extremly long and IF they exist, extremly hard to detect. So if there is a supernova for example, this huge amount of energy COULD cause something like a eruption, which COULD cause a gravity wave which COULD move through the earth and COULD cause that the laser hitting a diffrent point.

I say could, because it's all theoretically.

There are more centers concerning this topic in the US, but the one is beneath an area, where they cutting down the woods, and the system is crashing again and again.

The other one is near the west coast I think, but that's a stupid place too, because of the San Andreas thingy.

Than there is one in Japan, but I think they have the same earthquake problem. And one is planned in Australia.

And if you think, that gravity could also consist out of so called Gravitrons, that's just another way of thinking

According modern theories, everything is a wave, as long nobody is watching it. (Sounds stupid and I don't get it, but experimences proof it).

EDIT

Forget to say something to the article.

It seems very weird to me and these 5 years are ridiculous. However, I never heared about a magnetic field, creating gravity ...

[EdGrrr 0]

Gravity is the weird force, all to the other fundemental forces (strong, weak and electromagnetic) are included in the standard model of particle physics, but gravity and gravitons don't seem to quite fit in. This is largely to do with the fact that no gravitions have been detected or observed, where as the others (W and Z bosons and photons) have been.

There are several experiments bening designed at the moment to investigate the properties of gravity, but this isn't easy given the fact that it is extraordinarly weak. A body the size of the earth only provides an acceleration of 9.8ms^-2 ! LIGO and LISA (in space) are two examples of these.

This is just one example of a Grand Unified Theory (GUT), of which string theory and M-brane theory are just two. There are others which go in and out of fashion, and will continue to do so until one of them is proved.

[Myst9999 0]

Quote[/b] ]First of all, there are 4 main forces.

The Strong Force (The force between Quarks)

The Light Force (The force of radioactivity)

The Electromagnetic Force

And The Gravitational Force

Yeah thats it!

Well, I heard of it while back, and I failed my physics anyway

[EdGrrr 0]

First of all, there are 4 main forces.

The Strong Force (The force between Quarks)

The Light Force (The force of radioactivity)

The Electromagnetic Force

And The Gravitational Force

Its the weak force, not the light force

But the rest of them are right , it is involved in radioactive decay, especially beta decay

[kavoven 4]

First of all, there are 4 main forces.

The Strong Force (The force between Quarks)

The Light Force (The force of radioactivity)

The Electromagnetic Force

And The Gravitational Force

Its the weak force, not the light force

But the rest of them are right , it is involved in radioactive decay, especially beta decay

Sry, my bad translation into english^^

Of course, the weak, not the light force...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Wheres the dark force?

[kavoven 4]

Wheres the dark force?

It's the dark side of the force

[HellToupee 0]

reminds me of event horizon movie

[Commando84 0]

i think the whole travel really fast in space sounds great hope they can get a beta version up n running in 5-10 years I think people will risc to overcrowd the earth so we gonna need to find new planets to colonize someday. And really , what about future generations that might want to live? the sun is going to die eventually so it would be good if we could make it burn for a while longer, maybe dump our garbage on the sun to make it burn longer? crazy idea i know but i get many ideas sometimes on a daily basis

[D.murphy man 0]

Hmm i think i see a proplem with it though (bare in mind im certainly no physic genius like some you guys here)

Quote[/b] ]the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached

So its all fine and well slipping into that dimension but wouldnt we still have the proplem of building a prepolsion system that can reach incredible speeds (like the speed of light) whiles in that dimension? Also if i remeber correctly the faster you go the more time slows down, and at the speed of light time for you would come to a complete hault. If its at a complete stop how can you switch the damn thing off when you reach your location?

Bah! Im most propely talking complete bull. Hope some one can correct me on all that.

[GoOB 0]

The first thing I'd like to know is when did we find out there's other dimensions?

[EddyBoy 0]

As human beings we only perceive things in 3 dimentions. However it has been theorised through the polyakov equation that there around 26 dimentions, this is the bosnic theory. However a majority of these dimentions are so insignificant that in string theory they only account for 11/12 dimentions. Of course M-Theory and string theory is all theoritical so what happens, we don't know.

As for time slowing down, that is correct however it only slows down from those observing the event, those inside the craft would experience nothing. The craft itselfs mass would increase meaning that for time to stop altogether, which was suggested earlier, then the engine would need to propel the craft with an infinite force(F=ma whereby m tends to infinte).

[EdGrrr 0]

If the universe followed Newton's Laws perfectly, there would be no problem in reaching large speeds as long as you can carry enough fuel. According to Newton's second law,

F=ma

This means that if you apply a force to something, it will accelerate at the same rate, no matter what its initial speed in. this means that you could in theory attain almost infinite speeds (but it would take you just as long to slow down, unless you hit a planet ).

However, Einstein came along and said that you can't do this because as you increase you speed, your mass will also increase like so,

m = m0/sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2)

(m0 is the rest mass)

You can see here that as the velocity of the spaceship approaches the speed of light ©, the bottom half of the fraction approaches 0. This means that the mass of the spacecraft inceases as it approaches the speed of light. A larger mass needs a larger force to accellerate it, and so to reach the speed of light would require and infinate force, and therefore infinite energy (damn

)

However, if you can increase the speed of light, or travel to another dimension where light travels faster, the maximum speed that you can reach also increases, allowing you to visit place that are further away.

[EddyBoy 0]

Quote[/b] ]The craft itselfs mass would increase meaning that for time to stop altogether, which was suggested earlier, then the engine would need to propel the craft with an infinite force

Quote[/b] ]A larger mass needs a larger force to accellerate it, and so to reach the speed of light would require and infinate force, and therefore infinite energy

Way to read. However who's to say that in another dimention light is faster? For all we know light in another dimention could move slower. Also if in this other dimension the laws of physics were different then it is likely the object would simply be annihilated or simply cease to exist. I don't think their goal is to move greater than the speed of light but merely to move fast enough to shuttle between planets. However the nearest star with a known planet is 10.4 light years away (Epsilon Eridani). Still have to survive more than 10 years in a spaceship wich is quite a big problem in itself. However its all hypothetical and more than likely improbable.