Heatseeker 0 Posted November 27, 2005 Yeah i think i got it that far, thank you . Combining fixed and rotary wing, armored and vehical, naval, infantry, strategy, simulation environments together, full scale simulation? Environments where diferent sims would mix together, seems very complex and intensive though it actually reminds me of an old idea i read about years ago regarding a diferent developer's products.. Doubt it would be all that great for a comercial product though, seems more practical for us to have an all in one . Or am i way off here . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted November 27, 2005 Hi Heatseeker No you have not got it yet An RTI connects simulations together. Why do you keep adding a word between "connects" and "simulations"? It does not need one. Think about it  Oh and I agree with you about OFP/VBS being an all in one simulator because of granularity issues. Look back in this thread and you will see I mentioned it. Start thinking connecting simulations as connecting servers. Kind Regards Walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted November 27, 2005 Hi all The news about VBS2 continues to spread http://www.virtualworldlets.net/Archive/IndividualNews.php?News=1358 Kind Regards Walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sniperandy 0 Posted November 27, 2005 *edited* sry, my bad... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhoCares 0 Posted November 28, 2005 Hi HeatseekerNo you have not got it yet An RTI connects simulations together. Why do you keep adding a word between "connects" and "simulations"? It does not need one. ... As I understand it, it is what I suggested over here: All options in Jets. Somebody asked that BIS basically creates a full blown flight sim as part of OFP2. My alternative suggestions was that BIS works along with the creators of a flight sim creator like LoMAC, where the two games can be played together - seems like BIS is ahead of me, again... So, what OFP would get from the flight sim is just some movement vector while the plane in OFP is just an empty hull with respect to the flight model. now, the handling of maps and the like....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted November 28, 2005 Hi WhoCares As I already pointed out earlier in this thread: With HLA there are granularity issues between different simulations. Where the soldier sim may demand terrain and objects in it to be at a higher resolution than in the tank or copter sim. This is the so called Tank is Hull down in the Tank sim but on the crest of the hill in the soldier sim effect. With this granularity issue VBS has a distinct advantage over all other simulations as it is capable of modeling everything from single soldier up to helicopter and ship in the same environment. With the arrival VBS2 it may even be possible to Model fixed wing aircraft to true flight sim levels in the same environment. This is the holy grail of simulators; a single sim environment, the VBS OFP family are the closest to it yet; with the description of Terrain sizes in the 100km by 100km range and those magic words "streaming terrain" (something the military has spent millions on) VBS2 may even have achieved it. That said developing true flight sims in VBS will take some time although it may be possible to buy the programming of an existing flight model. This would give VBS an insurmountable advantage over all its competitors. In the mean time VBS2 with an HLA RTI gives full access to the level of fixed wing aircraft or constructive level simulation or for AARs and external AIs as one one can use an HLA interface with little or no risk of Granularity issues at these levels. It will also allow VBS to talk to older legacy systems. The stuff I am talking about with Heatseeker is also OFP related though. To stop my puzzle and place my thoughts out in the open though I point out this. With an RTI you can connect simulation servers together. Who said anything about them being different simulations? So in esence you could run multiple OFP/VBS servers each with an area of operation on a map Or each server could have an aspect of the battlefield to deal with, say one server deals with VBS aircraft and is stripped down and focussed to that task, another deals with projectiles, another with map, another physics, another human etity databases, or AI etc. With OFP/VBS you have a single engine and a unified data structure. We are talking distributed servers here with truly massive, if not unlimited size environments and numbers of participants. Think about it. At CoC we have been working on tools to exploit such a potential environment for 3 years. Kind Regards Walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy17 1 Posted November 28, 2005 Sounds interresting walker! Hope it is true! And if it is, I hope it becomes available for civil users too! BIS should not forgett it´s gaming roots! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
privatenoob 0 Posted November 28, 2005 We are talking distributed servers here with truly massive, if not unlimited size environments and numbers of participants. Think about it. At CoC we have been working on tools to exploit such a potential environment for 3 years. Kind Regards Walker Thanks for pointing that out, now I finally get it too. Yep that SOUNDS like a milestone, hell its even way beyond that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted November 29, 2005 Its also a bit confusing.. so its like one big simulation using multiple/conected servers where each server handles a specific "part" of the sim? We will all be old by the time this goes public so no yay from me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dinger 1 Posted November 29, 2005 Okay, think of it this way: When you play OFP in multiplayer, you have a server and clients. The server keeps track of the world and transmits to the clients changes to the world. The clients receive changes, make their own (for example, "Move My Tank to [09454.43, 4555.22, .1]") , and transmit them back. The run-time component of HLA is nothing other than a standardized means of communicating this information. So take the case if OFP and Falcon 4.0 were running an HLA RTI. The OFP server still runs OFP, and your Falcon server still runs Falcon, but they can "understand" each other concerning what happens in the simulated space. For example: You and a squad of buddies are playing a coop mission in OFP. You have a map that is more or less the same loaded in Falcon (the airport detail will be higher, of course, and the terrain detail lower, but it's substantially the same). A couple of your friends running Falcon take off in F-16s, flying in Falcon's full-realism mode, with all the MFC switchology and crap. They contact AWACS and head to a CAS stack 30 km away from your position. As you come over a ridge, you spot an enemy armoured column (simulated in OFP in this example) on the move. Your FAC gets on the radio and calls an airstrike. Seconds later, AWACS tells the guys in the F-to advance to Hold Point BARNEY and contact the terminal controller, your FAC. Approaching the Hold Point they check in with your buddy, who gives them a nine-line. They get the coordinates and the route, and fly in. The FAC (in OFP) looks over in the approach direction, and spots the pair of F-16s, heading straight for the target, wings level. He clears them hot. The F-16 pilots (in Falcon) see the armored column and maybe -- if his eyes are keen enough -- the small group of friendly troops. They pickle their bombs, and head for the egress route. The bombs destroy much of the armored convoy. No hardware is used beyond the servers and clients for the two games. The HLA RTI connects them together. With military simulations, this means you can add all kinds of fancy augmented reality stuff too: those rooms you see with the realistic guns that soldiers shoot at projections of enemies -- those can be linked up too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted November 29, 2005 Hi all Mod Sim has also spoted the news http://www.modsim.org/modules....topic=3 Follow the link on the VBS2 article on the page for more. @ Heatseeker What you are worried about is data propagation limits in networks and it is a very valid comment. It was a major subject at last years International Conference on Computational Science in Krakow, Poland where it was discussed as to how we can integrate HLA into Web Services to create something called Grid Services. http://www.vmasc.odu.edu/publications/tolk/DS-GRID04-10.pdf The following is talking about implimentation there is already work to incude the capabilities in IP6 http://www.vmasc.odu.edu/publications/Tolk/FGCS_21200597-106.pdf In esence we are talking traffic management and the application of chaos theory in order to distribute load in an unstable enviroment. What one needs to do is establish what are the limits created by instability and chaos. It is in fact a problem that has already been examined in maintaining the internet hence the call for Grid Services. Kind Regards Walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted December 1, 2005 I know what I'm going to be doing. Flying grunts and cargo around the battlefield in my puma. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baz 0 Posted December 2, 2005 And i'll be providing Air escort using my Linx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sniperandy 0 Posted December 4, 2005 I/ITSEC is over and nothing much has been revealed. I followed up on the daily infos and some other news but nothing on VBS2. I was sure they would have a promo-video released... shame... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted December 4, 2005 I/ITSEC is over and nothing much has been revealed.I followed up on the daily infos and some other news but nothing on VBS2. I was sure they would have a promo-video released... shame... They were problably very busy during and after the event, maybe they will post something next week, atleast it would make sense . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted January 7, 2006 Terrain pack 3 for VBS1 looks nice, look at how big that city looks. the HW requirements must have increased significantly though . And it comes with some insurgents and civies too. Most of vbs1 addons seem way overpriced but this one almost seems worth its price tag to me, because it actually brings new stuff into the table . Waddya all think? edit: Just took a better look at that huge city pic, its unbelievably massive . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cozza 24 Posted January 7, 2006 It look bloody nice. I know Samawah was made for the Aussie going over to Iraq to train. It was in a magazine article. I had the dimisions and I remenber it was big. If i had the cash i would buy it but all i got is 180 dollars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted January 7, 2006 Yeah, with most other stuff one would need to spend atleast 500€ to get something out of it... and rising . Makes you forget about Arma and the new "Sara" island for a bit doesnt it? edit: There was a bunch of pictures on a french squad site (thanks for sharing them with us regular OPF joes guys ) , VBS mission editors will definetly have alot to work with . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluganda 0 Posted January 7, 2006 Found a bunch of pictures on a french squad site, VBS mission editors will definetly have alot to work with . Thanks for link. Pictures looks unbelieving http://vbs.ofp-popo.com/screens/tp3/tp3_30.jpg ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
will0077 0 Posted January 7, 2006 this screen it is only one side of the town it is that x3 -/+ !! very very nice addon !! Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
privatenoob 0 Posted January 7, 2006 Finally a real city and not just 3 to 5 buildings placed on a spot. Geez, even the size of only that city is what......20 times larger then the average map in other games? *lol* Good job BIA/BIS, now I`m just struggling with myself if I should buy it or not....gah! If someone starts creating realistic missions ala "Invasion: Baghdad" I probably will........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted January 7, 2006 Its interesting that BIS included Saddam and his relatives in this pack . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cozza 24 Posted January 8, 2006 one thing i like to know is How the AI handle the city. Do they run through walls and all the usual questions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AfrographX 0 Posted January 8, 2006 Noticed that in one of the VBS1 pdfs it's said that CoC's next version of the Command Engine will be exclusively done as a new feature for VBS. Sad to hear that, was really waiting for that one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sysdevja 0 Posted January 11, 2006 ive played VBS1 (and bought it to my local gamers  LAN cafe) and just bought the new additon of the terrain pack 3, massive detailed terrains in 1 but VBS2 is looking great as the LAN cafe gamers spend most time playing urban enviroment games and hate Battlefield 2 for non realstic war. VBS2 shall be welcomed with open arms with our members. thanks J.Allsopp PS: will this and armed assault be at e3 this year, i got every year :P and wouldnt mind seeing VBS2 and ArmA in action Share this post Link to post Share on other sites