Virtual Battlespace 2 press release

[Spoock 3]

soldiers does not need to Xtra graphic orgy, but simulation for soldiers, therefore VBS2 look like as Armed Assault.

[gandalf the white 0]

soldiers does not need to Xtra graphic orgy, but simulation for soldiers, therefore VBS2 look like as Armed Assault.

I think soldiers need to "train" an a terrain that's so immersive soldiers get thesame feeling as they would in real life: danger is behind every window, not just in "that" lone bush, or behind "that" corner, graphics are a big part of the feeling of immersiveness you get, fact.

For the rest: I think that the engine will get improved allot between now and Q3 2006, but what I cannot understand is that we know more about VBS2 then Arma... though they're both different projects with different audience, I think it's a shame.

[Spoock 3]

soldiers does not need to Xtra graphic orgy, but simulation for soldiers, therefore VBS2 look like as Armed Assault.

I think soldiers need to "train" an a terrain that's so immersive soldiers get thesame feeling as they would in real life: danger is behind every window, not just in "that" lone bush, or behind "that" corner, graphics are a big part of the feeling of immersiveness you get, fact.

For the rest: I think that the engine will get improved allot between now and Q3 2006, but what I cannot understand is that we know more about VBS2 then Arma... though they're both different projects with different audience, I think it's a shame.

most simulations which use armies - graphic is very poor

VBS2 isnť simulation of feels, but tactic simulation!

fear is bad on simulation - you must learn coop - and you must have cold mind in battle

army will not panicmonger because - panickmonger soldier = cold meat

[gandalf the white 0]

soldiers does not need to Xtra graphic orgy, but simulation for soldiers, therefore VBS2 look like as Armed Assault.

I think soldiers need to "train" an a terrain that's so immersive soldiers get thesame feeling as they would in real life: danger is behind every window, not just in "that" lone bush, or behind "that" corner, graphics are a big part of the feeling of immersiveness you get, fact.

most simulations which use armies - graphic is very poor

VBS2 isn't simulation of feels, but tactic simulation!

fear is bad on simulation - you must learn coop - and you must have cold mind in battle

army will not panicmonger because - panickmonger soldier = cold meat

Most simulations are for tank or CAS coordination, VBS aims at infantry/combined arms coordination. I think good simulation of what a kill looks like is essential to getting prepared troops on the frontline. Allot of people leave the army after they fired at a "real" enemy once, simply because they couln't take it. it's better to get that "feeling" during training, cause then you can think about it in a peacefull enviroment, and see if the army is really something for you.

You are not firing at polygons in real life, you are firing at people, you can never prepare 100% on what is going to happen, however you can try to prepare 99%. Currently allot of armies do not prepare you in a single way on the reason allot people leave the army: the feeling of killing.

For this reason, I also believe the trainees shouln't be allowed to look at models being edited in oxygen, or a mission being made: it all betrays that it's not real.

In my opinion they should also get attatched to that Madcats thing that gives you an elektronic shock once you are hit. (and no, don't emit a lethal charge when you die )

It's kind of hard to tell why, and since my pizza is ready i'll leave somebody else to defend my opinion (if anybody agrees that is ).

[Spoock 3]

soldiers does not need to Xtra graphic orgy, but simulation for soldiers, therefore VBS2 look like as Armed Assault.

I think soldiers need to "train" an a terrain that's so immersive soldiers get thesame feeling as they would in real life: danger is behind every window, not just in "that" lone bush, or behind "that" corner, graphics are a big part of the feeling of immersiveness you get, fact.

most simulations which use armies - graphic is very poor

VBS2 isn't simulation of feels, but tactic simulation!

fear is bad on simulation - you must learn coop - and you must have cold mind in battle

army will not panicmonger because - panickmonger soldier = cold meat

Most simulations are for tank or CAS coordination, VBS aims at infantry/combined arms coordination. I think good simulation of what a kill looks like is essential to getting prepared troops on the frontline. Allot of people leave the army after they fired at a "real" enemy once, simply because they couln't take it. it's better to get that "feeling" during training, cause then you can think about it in a peacefull enviroment, and see if the army is really something for you.

You are not firing at polygons in real life, you are firing at people, you can never prepare 100% on what is going to happen, however you can try to prepare 99%. Currently allot of armies do not prepare you in a single way on the reason allot people leave the army: the feeling of killing.

For this reason, I also believe the trainees shouln't be allowed to look at models being edited in oxygen, or a mission being made: it all betrays that it's not real.

In my opinion they should also get attatched to that Madcats thing that gives you an elektronic shock once you are hit. (and no, don't emit a lethal charge when you die )

It's kind of hard to tell why, and since my pizza is ready i'll leave somebody else to defend my opinion (if anybody agrees that is ).

no comment

[Heatseeker 0]

...but what I cannot understand is that we know more about VBS2 then Arma...  though they're both different projects with different audience, I think it's a shame.

Maybe but think about it..

It must be very rewarding and profitable to develop sims for military, law enforcement organisations and institutions and it must provide the developing company with substancial freedom, independance and financial stability/security.

Compared with being half owned by publishers and bad contracts, deadlines, constant pressure, competition, piracy, sales, asshole reviewers(eh!, etc.

It all seems good for them like this, they do a good job and they get fully "rewarded" from it .

Without a publisher supporting their developments it certainly seems like a good move imo.

This decision might also raise Bohemia's name has a reputable developer and grab more atention from several publishers and their aproaches, definetly a interesting way of presenting and promoting their work and technology .

I think presenting VBS2 so close after OPF's Elite release proves to all the troll bitches that BIS is definetly not sitting on their asses. They have what it takes to make a new revolutionary game and they will .

[walker 0]

Hi gandalf the white

I agree with a lot of what you say but it all uses processor time and memory and takes time to develop.

It is trade off what bits are good enough versus those that are essential. Also what is negative training needs to be excluded.

One has to prioritise gory graphics vs correct balistics. perfect normal mapping vs a rough and ready but good enough texture.

Kind Regards Walker

[-RE-Warhawk 0]

@Gandolf

Nothing in this world can really ever prepare one for the reality of taking a human life. Especially shooting at "polygons". At least that applies to those of what one would call a sane mind.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[gandalf the white 0]

@Gandolf

Nothing in this world can really ever prepare one for the reality of taking a human life. Especially shooting at "polygons". At least that applies to those of what one would call a sane mind.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

In my opinion pulling the virtual trigger and seeing the effects you would see if it were real will make you think about it, and about the preparing part, I don't really know, you're right on one end, but at the other end, look what I wrote: the image after seeing one's head blown to bits after you made it happen might prove enough to make you think twice about what you want to do.

[-RE-Warhawk 0]

@Gandolf

Nothing in this world can really ever prepare one for the reality of taking a human life. Especially shooting at "polygons". At least that applies to those of what one would call a sane mind.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

In my opinion pulling the virtual trigger and seeing the effects you would see if it were real will make you think about it, and about the preparing part, I don't really know, you're right on one end, but at the other end, look what I wrote: the image after seeing one's head blown to bits after you made it happen might prove enough to make you think twice about what you want to do.

If you haven't already thought about that then no amount of preparation will do. Let me ask you this. And please don't take these as an argumentative questions.

What kind of real life experience are you basing your statement on? IE have you served in the military? In combat? Or some form of Law Enforcement? Have you ever had to fire a weapon in anger?

You need not necessarily answer those here as we, you and I are taking this decidely off topic and really need to stop.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[Spoock 3]

4 gandalf: this very long discusion with you. I can´t say my opinion.

[DBR_ONIX 0]

Err, VBS1 isn't designed to prepare soldiers for war, it's supposed to teach/clear up tatics, nothing more..

"4 gandalf: this very long discusion with you. I can´t say my opinion."

No one is stoping you, well, the moderators maybe for being offtopic, but meh, it's not too far oftopic

- Ben

[JdB 151]

VBS1/2 is good for practicing communication between team members above all else. You can never tell if a soldier will really be able to kill someone until the moment of truth arrives. VBS1/2 can never replace the actual practice in the field, because it is physically impossible to get it as realistic as real life circumstances.

[ebns72 0]

Wow.

Despite the lack of normal maps, that marine looks better imo than the game2/armed assault player models. His proportions and everything are perfect.

I am in envy..I wish I had the $$$$ to shell out to buy this

[Heatseeker 0]

Can you imagine being allowed to atend to the presentation, and then after being in heaven for a bit be thrown out the door realising it will possibly only reach gold by 3rd quarter 2k6 and wont be available to the public anyway, that would be the ultimate frustration experience .

How would you guys feel if BIS were to develop and release sims instead of games for home entertainment in the future? Just like flight sims, sub and naval sims, etc. This would be a combined operations military based sim, training missions instead of cheesy campaign with bad characters and plots, realistic units instead of generic west and east stuff, would kick major balls .

Imagine game reviewers reviewing it and making themselves look even worse...

"You just cant review this because its not a game, its a sim you stupid geek!" .

[privatenoob 0]

Can you imagine being allowed to atend to the presentation, and then after being in heaven for a bit be thrown out the door realising it will possibly only reach gold by 3rd quarter 2k6 and wont be available to the public anyway, that would be the ultimate frustration experience .

How would you guys feel if BIS were to develop and release sims instead of games for home entertainment in the future? Just like flight sims, sub and naval sims, etc. This would be a combined operations military based sim, training missions instead of cheesy campaign with bad characters and plots, realistic units instead of generic west and east stuff, would kick major balls .

Imagine game reviewers reviewing it and making themselves look even worse...

"You just cant review this because its not a game, its a sim you stupid geek!" .

This is what I like with VBS1 and its community and everything that follows with it, you dont see it in the regular gaming community and that is fine by me. I dont want arcade-action players that thinks realism is boring and their unrealistic games for "fun", and all they care about is how good or bad the graphic looks like on the preview screenshots, to care about VBS. For me realism is the BIG fun. Feeling goes before graphics. And yes, I have already started saving up money for VBS2, I suggest you do the same.

[dinger 1]

Everyone seems pretty confident in knowing exactly what VBS is used for. If you go and look at the published reports of what sorts of training VBS/OFP is applied to, you'll see that it's a whole range of things -- not just tactical situations or SOPs or communications. Every time I hear somebody say "VBS is used for this", I find some other use someone's put it to.

But some things it isn't used for. It is not used to train A-10 pilots on the use of their primary flight controls. Likewise, it is not used to desensitize soldiers to killing. The claim that video games help soldiers overcome the natural human barrier to killing another human is bogus. There's no research to support it, and frankly, it wouldn't work anyway. People have been playing games and watching movies with simulated mutilation, killing, torture and all kinds of nastiness, and that hasn't stopped them from being traumatized when they encounter the real thing.

On the other hand, we've got plenty of people who are desensitized to dead bodies -- funeral workers, nurses, forensic archaeologists -- and they still get desensitized the old fashioned way -- through deliberate and extended exposure to the real thing.

So no, VBS isn't used for that, and I honestly think no video game can or should reduce or eliminate the trauma associated with combat. That said, they certainly can help make other complicated tasks function more automatically, so that in the trauma of combat the units keep working and don't do stupid thing. That's what training is for.

[-RE-Warhawk 0]

Everyone seems pretty confident in knowing exactly what VBS is used for. If you go and look at the published reports of what sorts of training VBS/OFP is applied to, you'll see that it's a whole range of things -- not just tactical situations or SOPs or communications. Every time I hear somebody say "VBS is used for this", I find some other use someone's put it to.

But some things it isn't used for. It is not used to train A-10 pilots on the use of their primary flight controls. Likewise, it is not used to desensitize soldiers to killing. The claim that video games help soldiers overcome the natural human barrier to killing another human is bogus. There's no research to support it, and frankly, it wouldn't work anyway. People have been playing games and watching movies with simulated mutilation, killing, torture and all kinds of nastiness, and that hasn't stopped them from being traumatized when they encounter the real thing.

On the other hand, we've got plenty of people who are desensitized to dead bodies -- funeral workers, nurses, forensic archaeologists -- and they still get desensitized the old fashioned way -- through deliberate and extended exposure to the real thing.

So no, VBS isn't used for that, and I honestly think no video game can or should reduce or eliminate the trauma associated with combat. That said, they certainly can help make other complicated tasks function more automatically, so that in the trauma of combat the units keep working and don't do stupid thing. That's what training is for.

Well said Dinger.... Well said.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[gandalf the white 0]

Alright, after a good night's sleep I will rewrite that statement:

VBS1, like any other simulation, cannot desensitise you to killing somebody. However, implementing a bigger fear/gore/overall immersive factor might show how well you operate under certain types of pressure.

Can we be friends again? please?

[-RE-Warhawk 0]

@gandalf

Not being unfriendly. But you do need to re-read and think about Dinger's post.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

[Heatseeker 0]

@gandalf

Not being unfriendly.  But you do need to re-read and think about Dinger's post.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

Indeed, soldiers are trained to fight but their not blood thirsty assassins, i doubt adding realistic gore values would add anything to what the program is meant to do. I think the product would loose credibility and even be ridicularised if the developer would waste HW resources and developing time with something has useless has ultra realistic violence, if there is a training situation involving the elimination of a hostile force or defence against a hostile atack the only thing needed is for the targets to be shot resulting in wounds or elimination. I doubt the simulation represents realistic firefights and a.i. behaviours remotely close to real life anyway.

I can imagine soldiers simulating tactics, movement or deployment in a cenario modeled to represent a RL location and i can also imagine many diferent ways a 3d simulator would be highly beneficial for military training and for pre deployment simulation without even using simulated infantry combat. I see it more has a graphicaly rich, fully interactive, huge and detailed 3d "map" and this being its highest advantage has a "tool", not a coop game with intense violence and gore.

Considering this is "just" a sim it already looks highly imersive and graphicaly rich judging from those pics.

Not to bother or contradict you Gandalf but this is my honest opinion on the subject .

[Daddl 10]

Quote[/b] ]The VBS2 terrain editing tool, Visitor 3, will support direct import of terrain and shape data allowing customer organizations to easily recreate any area of operation (AO) in the simulation.

Could that be Armed Assaults island making tool also?

That would be very nice indeed. Being able to use proper gis vector and raster data as a base for creating islands would speed up development time and increase accuracy quite a bit.

[berghoff 11]

Oi new tools ^_^

[walker 0]

Hi all

The Games Industy website has reported VBS2 being on show at I/ITSEC.

Quote[/b] ]Bohemia Interactive to demonstrate VBS2 at Interservice Industry Training, Simulation, and Education Conference (I/ITSEC)

Press release supplied by Games Press 15:50 18/11/2005

Prague, Czech Republic - 15th November 2005

Bohemia Interactive (BI) is pleased to announce that Virtual Battlespace 2 (VBS2) will be demonstrated at I/ITSEC, to be held at the Florida Convention Center in Orlando, from November 28 - December 1, 2005. BI will be located at booth #1028 in Hall B, co-located with the hardware technology developer Cyberdome.

Due for release in Q3 2006, VBS2 provides a low-cost military-off-the-shelf interactive virtual environment suitable for a wide range of training and analytical purposes. Guided by comprehensive feedback from various organizations including the USMC and the Australian Defence Force, BI has developed VBS2 as a flexible and scalable simulation solution, capable of being used in a variety of roles from desktop trainer through to providing fully immersive virtual reality. VBS2 is suitable for training small teams in urban tactics, practicing entire combat teams in combined arms operations or even non-military usage such as incident response or terrain visualization.

The simulation engine driving VBS2 is Real Virtuality, developed by BI over the past decade into one of the most advanced computer-based visualization systems available. New data streaming technology allows VBS2 to support terrain areas of over 100 x 100 kilometers in size and potentially millions of terrain features such as buildings and vegetation. Moving grass and trees and ambient life such as insects and birds provide virtual environments of unparalleled realism, and improved physics and artificial intelligence (AI) make for a truly immersive experience...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/press_release.php?aid=13103

Follow the link to read more

Hopefully we will see more publicity like this for all Bohemia Interactives products.

Kind Regards Walker

[Hauk 0]

Oooooh! Nice read!

Hauk