Armed Assault Anticheats!!!

[eJay 1]

Just make some new patches for game and cheaters will be eliminated

It wil be like: Armed Assault ver. 99.76908

Patch ver. 100.89765 on the way

[Waterman 0]

Yup, if nothing is done about this ID changer then im afraid OFP is gonna have a dead MP community. Just yesterday two members (including myself) from our clan were impersonated and perhaps 3/4 members of another clan impersonated too. So I really hope BIS impliment Punkbuster into Armed Assault, and preferrably somthing to stop the cheats taking others ID's now.

[Kam2000 0]

Yup, if nothing is done about this ID changer then im afraid OFP is gonna have a dead MP community.

It's allready dead since 2003. Just scan server with ASE and see in-game servers.

[Waterman 0]

Yup, if nothing is done about this ID changer then im afraid OFP is gonna have a dead MP community.

It's allready dead since 2003. Just scan server with ASE and see in-game servers.

When I say dead, I mean only cheaters will be still playing and everyone else will have moved onto a new game. ATM there are still many ligit clans like DST, DK, USI, GGX, RN, KaoS etc... and it spoils the fun for our clans and the leagues we play in.

[Evil_Storm 0]

Armed Assault will bring lots of new players and it will make everything better anti cheat or not. Most players are decent and lots of fresh meat will prevent certain clans from thinking they can "own" the community. It will introduce alot of excellent players, for some old OFPers they will flame everyone for cheating while others just will accept talent when they see it. New players IMO is all it needs, cheats will always exist like in any other game. Can't wait for AA.

[Moving Target 0]

PB is good for some games, but when you are editing the files (ECP etc.) then it goes out the window. Best thing that i have to say is keep the admin and kick! It is blatently obvious when someone is cheating on everygame, because they will have a huge score. The ID changer that recently came out, how long is it since the game was released? 4 years? I doubt that anyone at BIS would have thought the game would have lasted that long.

[Waterman 0]

The only reason the mp community has kept going is the new patches which means they cheaters have to spend more time making new ones. This isn't the first id changer for ofp Moving Target, i hope you realise. With the option to turn off punkbuster then there's no reason why is should not be implimented.

[Kam2000 0]

You all thinking cheaters all that guys that respawning tank or ship or destroy the map or move the building?

No guys!!!

OfP it's allready dead, 95% of clans and players left ofp not ONLY for that kind of cheaters but because no one CW it's sure that it's clear CW.

I prefer the cheater that spawn tanks or something sh** that clanmembers cheaters that play with colored uniform, wireframe, speedhack and be happy because they play well at others eyes or because they won the CW with cheat...

OfP it's unplayable from 2 years

Armed Assault must have a good anticheats like PB or something that guarantees or at least diminishes the cheaters or i really think the game after 2 weeks will be full of cheaters like now in OfP and all will be the same. Clans and players left or don't buy the game.

---> Sorry for my english, i hope that guys undestand what i mean <---

[Moving Target 0]

Eh? Ive played on servers for 2 years now, and cheaters that have used cheats have mostly been caught. How can you not be suspicious of someone who has a score well above everyone elses?

One way however would be to give the option to bind your username for MP to your ID on a BIS server, that way if someone tried to change their ID it would be recognised as false by server and player would be kicked.

[Kam2000 0]

Only because a player have got much kills this not mean that he's a cheater and you can't kick or ban this player.

There are also a players with good skill that don't using cheats.

We need a good anticheat!!!

[Dwarden 1125]

PB is good for some games, but when you are editing the files (ECP etc.) then it goes out the window.  Best thing that i have to say is keep the admin and kick!  It is blatently obvious when someone is cheating on everygame, because they will have a huge score.  The ID changer that recently came out, how long is it since the game was released?  4 years?  I doubt that anyone at BIS would have thought the game would have lasted that long.

i already wrote in this thread multiple times that PB does "support" game modifications, just take look at games PunkBuster is implemented within (www.punkbuster.com www.evenbalance.com)

as example of "well moddable games" BF1942, BFV, BF2, Quake3, RTCW, ET etc ...

if any improvement needed in code EBI programmers can always adjust the code ...

[Marshal 0]

The worst part about cheating in OFP is that even if you ban a person for cheating they can simply change their ID and come back. So, unless your aware of who the person is, there is no way of permenantly banning a person from your server or league. A good example would be a player who was banned from my league last year for using a cheat where he could see through bushes whilst he was playing in the OFP World Cup which my league runs. Luckily we had a spectator watching the match who caught the guy out.

However, just recently I found out that this player had crept back into the league with a new ID and name. I cannot think of any other game which lets players mess around with the game code so much. If you havent got a legitimate copy of lets say Doom 3 or Halflife 2 then you cant play the game. Really this ID changer is like a keygen which cant be detected by the game.

Many games are cracked on release and keygen programs are issued so that players can play these pirated games in multiplayer mode, but the software companies soon release a patch which denies any pirate copies from playing in online games. The same should be put into action for AA. I have seen games such as Quake which checks your files when you enter a server - if your files dont match or it finds something that shouldnt be there then you cant play online - why cant BIS adopt this idea?

The other thing that I dont particularly appreciate is that BIS do not seem to be very active in discussing these matters with its community. Many game forums are set up for players thoughts and views and the admins or game developers use the forum to announce updates and ideas and in some cases the admins answer questions on a daily basis - BIS seem to be very quiet about thier plans or about discussing issues such as cheating and they always have been, even when OFP was newly released.

Why?

Marshal Law

TNT League

[Kam2000 0]

Maybe they really are not interested and they only want get posts in their forum...

In fact OfP was not supported like all others game although all posts of bugs or cheats in BIS forum.  

[-TNF-Evil_Storm 0]

Sitting talking down to ID changer huh marshal? <link removed> Who is the real cheater? Blast from the past[/url]

[sanctuary 19]

I hope punkbuster will not be integrated in Armed Assault , for a lot of very valid reasons .

If BIS decide to integrate such "program" into Armed Assault, all i hope is that such punkbuster install will stay optional , and that you can select to not install it (even if you will not be able to play on punkbuster servers).

Like ID Software did for Quake 3 by example, punkbuster was only optional in Quake3 and the user was not forced in having this 'thing' on his hardrive.

I really don't need to lose Armed Assault performance only because of some idiots abusing the MP while i am focusing in SP and mission making environment.

BIS made anticheats, like the one BIS implemented in OFP would be better than this awfull punkbuster.

[Moving Target 0]

*sighs* it looks like PB is the only thing out there that can catch 15 year old script kiddies, but there must be something that doesnt can every file on your hard drive and forces you to shut down certain firewalls.

[Kam2000 0]

Doesn't metter if PB or other anticheat but ---> W-E M-U-S-T H-A-V-E A G-O-O-D A-N-T-I-C-H-E-A-T-S.

[Placebo 29]

[TNF]Evil_Storm I removed your link, airing dirty laundry from another forum is not acceptable here, read the rules please.

[Heatseeker 0]

PB can do alright, it was doing fine in americas army 2.3, 2.4 switched to UT2.5 engine so they havent catched up yet but PB has done good before. I think bis already have alot of work in their hands, no need for more.

The problem would be with 56k modem players, all the updating and screenshots would prevent them from playing i guess. Another problem is the game open endness, the same thing that makes it so good does ruin mp but imagine OFP without sky mods or Sanct's/DMA animation mod .

I think everything will remain like it is now with OFP .

[Kam2000 0]

I think everything will remain like it is now with OFP .

You think wrong because the truth is that -90% cheaters in OfP and anyway in official league match no need addons or mods just clear OfP.

-90% cheaters mean +100% OfP popularity,players,clan....

It's not hard to undestand

[Dwarden 1125]

I hope punkbuster will not be integrated in Armed Assault , for a lot of very valid reasons .

If BIS decide to integrate such "program" into Armed Assault, all i hope is that such punkbuster install will stay optional , and that you can select to not install it (even if you will not be able to play on punkbuster servers).

Like ID Software did for Quake 3 by example, punkbuster was only optional in Quake3 and the user was not forced in having this 'thing' on his hardrive.

I really don't need to lose Armed Assault performance only because of some idiots abusing the MP while i am focusing in SP and mission making environment.

BIS made anticheats,  like the one BIS implemented in OFP would be better than this awful punkbuster.

I will be bit sharp now at You ...

You are clear example of person who "don't have idea what PB is and how it work and HOW is INTEGRATED into games" ...

why?

1) PunkBuster is ALWAYS optional "MODULE" in EVERY game in which was implemented

yes , You read correctly "OPTIONAL" ...

Client user CAN "DECIDE" to enable PB and play at PB "enabled" servers ...

or NOT ENABLE PunkBuster and play only at non-PB servers !

2) You use some "forum" where it clearly shows most of problems with PB as "user error" ... most of people with ALL these problems don't read manual of PB, don't read FAQs and of course fails to configure whats needed if needed.

3) sure noone said PB is "perfect", it does have bugs and problems, but i can tell You, i KNOW developers from EvenBalance Inc. and they NEVER ignore real issues with theirs software and constantly working on improving it

+ as admin i can say that PB grows to be MOST effective tool for administrating servers against "bad player elements".

4) PunkBuster IS NOT ACTIVE in SINGLE PLAYER MODE !!!!

5) BIS anticheat in OFP was total basic and it's miles aways from being able to keep cheaters away ... plus it cover again only internal engine cheats ...

6) performance

network lags? I'm sorry but PB was developed with 56k modem in mind so anyone with "qualite" modem and ABOVE connectivity is "fine" and anyone over 256kbit don't notice existence of PB at all (wrong configurations client or server side aren't subject to count)

cpu lags? sorry but any "hash" checking or engine variables (no matter what) will result into some CPU cycles, memory and IO (data media as HDD) being utilized ... so you either want play in "unsafe" environment or decide to play in relative safe and sacrify some % of performance ....

7) "awful punkbuster ?"  excuse me sir....

let's look at Anticheat market ... what You see?

PunkBuster - <u>implemented was in 15 games,

 including 5 of TOP10 multiplayer ones,

 spanning over 7 game engines (Quake 3 engine, Unreal Engine 2 and 2.5, Doom 3 engine, Cry Engine, Joint Operations engine plus Battlefield 1 and 2 engines )</u>

and supporting for now 3 platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac)

ability to fight both engine based based cheats and external DC/DOD, Open GL cheats

constantly updated (usually monthly cycles if needed daily) with both detections and features

ability to "take" remote screen shot of "what player sees" on his game screen (yes it's limited in functionality but still very successful feature)

and dozens other additional features for admins ...

...from view of admin it's best working all in one solution available ...

so what's more out at market... official ones:

VAC - first generation anticheat from Valve, low update frequency, totally abandoned, not updated for year(s), able fight only engine based cheats, broken and beaten by thousands cheats, total failure in eyes of admin

VAC2 - second generation anticheat from Valve, bit mystery from known informations it will be just improved VAC for Source engine unable match PB functionality

USECURE - UT2004 sports Epic's internal anticheat named usecure, able fight only engine based cheats, above low update frequency, broken and beaten by dozens - hundreds cheats, good try but still failure in eyes of admin

Hradba - anticheat used in game VietCong was developed by United Admins (authors of 3rd party anticheat solutions for Counter Strike), again it cover mainly engine based cheats (for advanced external cheats it failed in that area), from start it was easy to break, but later it was improved but when it reach optimal quality for it's type, updates were dropped... not good from admins view

WACHE - anticheat used in game Soldner was developed by WiNGS (authors of Soldner) is interesting approach and probably one of best "engine cheat checking" anticheats to date, problem is that is quite vulnerable to external cheats and does have sometimes serious impact on performance and some minor bugs.

Even WINGS and many of community says that WACHE is better than PB, it's FALSE sense of security as they don't realize that only combination of internal engine anticheat "WACHE" and external anticheat "PUNKBUSTER" is correct way and key to SUCCESS! ,

so theirs refusal to implement PB as option result into opened door for cheaters ruin that game with external based cheats (texture cheats like wallhacks, brighthacks, NV visions, radar overlays, aim helpers etc)....again not good from admins perspective

3rd party ones:

United Admins (unitedadmins.com)

community of admins, coders and players

development of Cheating Death for CS (this is client - server solution,

able cover both external and internal (engine) based cheats, probably only complex "solution" able compete with PB)

helping with HLguard (server side engine based anticheat only)

and also they developed above mentioned Hradba anticheat

Unreal Admins (unrealadmins.org)

community of admins, coders and players

various engine based anticheats developed there for Unreal games (UT, UT2003, UT2004 etc)

namely AntiTCC, Safegame, UTpure, QValidate and others ...

noone of them is able catch external cheats ...

well there are some other tries and "like" anticheat solutions but they never reached any useful or major scale use ...

as You can see above any anticheat solution made directly by game developers (to date) lacks of frequent updates to detect "In The Wild" cheats ...

and now ... please some real arguments "against" what i just wrote above ...

thanks    

---

ADDED:

There are various ways and most optimal are these two:

1) Combination of anticheat (base) from developers + external anticheat in quality level AT LEAST as PunKBuster now

2)  Combination of anticheat (base) from developers + external anticheat in quality level AT LEAST as PunKBuster now

+ developers release AntiCheat SDK (ACSDK) for both client and server

where anticheat like PunkBuster stays here as wall against external cheats and will be adjusted to support additional "custom" security modules (which were coded with ACSDK) giving admin rights to choose best ones and use what he needs (and PB like AC will be technically protecting these modules against unwanted modifications (of course server settings need be adjusted for this)

edit: some typo fixes ...

[sanctuary 19]

Quote[/b] ]1) PunkBuster is ALWAYS optional "MODULE" in EVERY game in which was implemented

yes , You read correctly "OPTIONAL" ...

Client user CAN "DECIDE" to enable PB and play at PB "enabled" servers ...

or NOT ENABLE PunkBuster and play only at non-PB servers !

Maybe, but if you install punkbuster, it will be line of codes read by the program, , whatever you put it ON or OFF.

Solution : optional at the install , like for Quake 3, not optional only ingame.

Quote[/b] ] 3) sure noone said PB is "perfect", it does have bugs and problems

Quote[/b] ]2) You use some "forum" where it clearly shows most of problems with PB as "user error" ... most of people with ALL these problems don't read manual of PB, don't read FAQs and of course fails to configure whats needed if needed.

Funny how you can contradict yourself, reported errors are only users fault, while you accepted the fact it does have bugs and problems.

But sure, broadbandreport is a bunch of uneducated individuals that know nothing on nothing ....

Quote[/b] ]PunkBuster - implemented was in 15 games,

including 5 of TOP10 multiplayer ones,

spanning over 7 game engines (Quake 3 engine, Unreal Engine 2 and 2.5, Doom 3 engine, CryEngine, Joint Operations engine plus BattleField 1 and 2 engines )

and supporting for now 3 platforms (Windows, Linux and Mac)

ability to fight both engine based based cheats and external DX/D3D, OpenGL cheats

constantly updated (usually monthly cycles if needed daily) with both detections and features

ability to "take" remote screenshot of "what player sees" on his game screen (yes it's limited in functionality but still very successful feature)

and dozens other additional features for admins ...

Because a program is widely used, it does not make it the best solution, sorry to kick into your bubble.

Quote[/b] ]6) performance

network lags? I'm sorry but PB was developed with 56k modem in mind so anyone with "qualite" modem and ABOVE connectivity is "fine" and anyone over 256kbit don't notice existence of PB at all (wrong configurations client or server side aren't subject to count)

cpu lags? sorry but any "hash" checking or engine variables (no matter what) will result into some CPU cycles, memory and IO (data media as HDD) being utilized ... so you either want play in "unsafe" environment or decide to play in relative safe and sacrify some % of performance ....

Interesting how your claims can be opposite to what several users have experimented.

But those users are certainly not PB developers/friends like you defined yourself, maybe that's why they are wrong.

And maybe they read too many ignorant populated forum too.

Quote[/b] ]

and now ... please some real arguments "against" what i just wrote above ...

If you want some serious discussions, maybe drop the attitude and get an user view and not your PB/EvenBalance developer/friend bias you are displaying there.

Else i am afraid you will argue only with yourself.

[Dwarden 1125]

Quote[/b] ]Sanctuary,June 25 2005,17:59]

i have question,

what games which are using PunkBuster you own

and what's amount of servers with PB You admin or own ?

for me answer is "dozen and dozens" ...

Quote[/b] ]

Maybe, but if you install punkbuster, it will be line of codes read by the program, , whatever you put it ON or OFF.

Solution : optional at the install , like for Quake 3, not optional only ingame.

1) if it's not used , it's disabled, and that mean completely, end of story ...  

optionable on install then equate disabled ...

Quote[/b] ]

Funny how you can contradict yourself, reported errors are only users fault, while you accepted the fact it does have bugs and problems.

But sure, broadbandreport is a bunch of uneducated individuals that know nothing on nothing ....

2) no complex software made by human is perfect ... so bugs can exist and errors can happen,

in that case it's about technical support, manuals, FAQ,

speed of updates and ability to made it better as soon as possible thru update. Btw. sure i will take all broadbandreport users as "skilled" profis ...

Quote[/b] ]

Because a program is widely used, it does not make it the best solution, sorry to kick into your bubble.

3) noone forced these companies/developers to adopt PB and i never said it's ideal solution, it's best available to this date ...

and there are many upcoming titles to announce use of PB ...

at least it gives space to start think about "WHY" was PB selected ...

Quote[/b] ]

Interesting how your claims can be opposite to what several users have experimented.

But those users are certainly not PB developers/friends like you defined yourself, maybe that's why they are wrong.

And maybe they read too many ignorant populated forum too.

well, are You completely sure these users have "completely OK" connectivity, unfaulty modems or no hardware / software collisions or issues ? are you able to put Your hand into fire and say "that's PB fault"

Yes i said i know EBI developers but i NOT said above they my friends

and i'm also NOT considering myself to be PB/theirs fanboy,

in fact i'm very critical to some parts of PB as there is always place to improvements.

But from my endpoint (as customer, software user and administrator and codirector of America's Army anticheat community)

are any communications with EvenBalance Inc. related to problems, bug fixes and features implementation

on very high quality level, including both professional approach and friendly talks (human 2 human).

Quote[/b] ]

If you want some serious discussions, maybe drop the attitude and get an user view and not your PB/EvenBalance developer/friend bias you are displaying there.

Else i am afraid you will argue only with yourself.

What attitude you mean ?

I'm software users, game player also, i'm game tester, i'm admin of game servers and i help to run AC community.

i work with servers and clients using games with PB nearly daily so i only expressing my experiences ...

All i said here is my opinion about things, i don't want BIS to repeat mistakes of dozens others developers in past.

I don't want Armed Assault to become unplayable for multiplayer because cheats infest game and kill interest of people to stay.

[Kam2000 0]

I don't want Armed Assault to become unplayable for multiplayer because cheats infest game and kill interest of people to stay.

Right and for that we need A G-O-O-D A-N-T-I-C-H-E-A-T !!!

[Heatseeker 0]

...And PB is the best there is even if not perfect . But it must be costy to the publishers, plus once comercial games (unlike AA) stop selling or sales drop support also drops for obvious reasons , while the developers may still continue to support their fan base and users (Bohemia ofcourse) its unlikely that the publisher will continue to support it and there it goes evenbalance updates stop coming...

So in the long run were will always be screwed, unless drastic measures including legal action are taken.