VE Day

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Quote[/b] ]SOLDIER BOY

by Earl Doucette

They lie not in that empty grave

Beneath the foreign sod.

They do not lie forgotten

In that cold, and desolate Land of Nod.

Soldier Boy ... Solider Boy,

The trumpets blast, and blare;

And wreaths are laid at the Cenotaph,

To show ... that we still care.

But ... there's a greater love than Man's

Who knows the price you paid.

He spared you the indignity,

And lifted you from that cold, cold grave.

He created a Great Celestial Shrine,

And the moment it was done ...

With a gentle hand, placed the Valiant heart,

Of each dear Mother's son.

Soldier Boy ... Solider Boy,

Under Dutch blue skies,

The gentle Breeze of Holland ...

Kiss your grave ... as they pass by.

Today is the 8th of May, 2005 - 60 years have passed since the end of WW2 in Europe. Let us sit in silence for even just a minute to remember the sacrifice by our brothers, sisters, grandfathers, grandmothers, and everyone else, in our countries and other's, who all united their efforts to defeat evil, tyranny and fascism. Let us thank them for giving the ultimate sacrifice in order to win us freedom and liberty. We will be forever in their debt, a debt that can only be repayed by remaining as vigilant as they were and ensuring that freedom and liberty are never lost.

Lest we forget, we salute you, honourable forefathers, and we thank you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1....ult.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4525761.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4526351.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4493769.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4526903.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4509525.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1....tm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4508901.stm

I quite recommend this for some solitary and reflecting reading:

http://www.warpoems.org/poems.htm

[theavonlady 2]

Hear it now!

[der bastler 0]

May 8th. End of World War II. No more War!

Really?

A small post-WWII collection of 35 VIWs (very important wars):

1. Greek Civil War 1945-1949 -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War

2. Chinese Civil War (1946-1949) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War

3. First Vietnam War (1946-1954) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War

4. First Arab-Israeli War (1948-1949) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

5. Korean War (1950-1953) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

6. Algerian War of Independence (1954-1962) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War_of_Independence

7. Second Arab-Israeli War (1956) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

8. Civil War in Guatemala (1960-1996) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Guatemala

9. Congo Civil War (since 1960) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Civil_War

10. Guerilla War in Colombia (since 1964) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia

11. Second Vietnam War (1964-1975) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

12. Burundi Civil War (1965-2003) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burundi_Civil_War

13. Second Indo-Pakistani War (1965) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965

14. Third Arab-Israeli War (1967) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

15. Cambodian Civil War (1967-1997) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_Civil_War

16. Biafra Conflict (1967-1970) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Civil_War

17. Third Indo-Pakistani War (1971) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1971

18. Fourth Arab-Israeli War (1973) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

19. Cyprus Crisis (1974) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....d_after

20. Civil War in Angola (1975-2002) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angola

21. Civil War in Mozambique (1975-1992) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique

22. Fourth Afghanistan War (1979-1997) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Afghanistan

23. Civil War in El Salvador (1979-1992) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador

24. First Gulf War (1980-1988) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War

25. Falklands War (1982) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War

26. Civil War in Nicaragua (1982-1990) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua

27. Civil War in Sri Lanka (1983-2002) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_conflict_in_Sri_Lanka

28. Civil War in Sudan (1983-2005) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sudanese_Civil_War

29. Second Gulf War (1991) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_War

30. Civil War in Yugoslavia (1991-1995) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_wars

31. Chechen Wars (since 1994) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War

32. Ethiopia-Eritrea War (1998-2000) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia-Eritrea_War

33. Kosovo War (1999) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

34. Fifth Afghanistan War (2001) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._invasion_of_Afghanistan

35. Third Gulf War (2003) -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq

These are major ones, overall there were more than 250 armed conflicts since 1945 with approx. 23 Million dead (most of them civilians).

[source: "7th day", week end special of Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung]

No more war? The world doesn't seem interested...

[denoir 0]

From BBC:

Quote[/b] ]Berlin: The German capital had been repeatedly bombed by the time it was encircled by Soviet troops in 1945. After German re-unification and years of renovation, the Reichstag re-opened in 1999 for use by the new parliament.

Quote[/b] ]Caen: As part of the push into France in 1944, Allied forces bombed the northern city then occupied by the Germans and intense fighting followed. Up to 80% of the city was flattened. Reconstruction took 14 years, and included St Jean's church in central Caen.

Quote[/b] ]Dresden: As Allied forces closed in, the east German city came under sustained air attack - one of the most controversial Allied operations because of the huge loss of life. Much of old Dresden was destroyed. Some key buildings were restored after re-unification.

Quote[/b] ]London: The British capital was relentlessly targeted by German bombers from 1940 onwards. Although buildings in areas surrounding St Paul's cathedral were reduced to rubble, the church itself escaped major damage.  

Quote[/b] ]Volgograd: The southern Russian city on the Volga, then known as Stalingrad, was almost completely reduced to rubble as German forces tried to take it amid enormous loss of life. Massive rebuilding work followed to restore bridges, railways and industry.

Quote[/b] ]Warsaw After the 1944 Warsaw Uprising, German forces were ordered to destroy what remained of the city. Some older areas were rebuilt to their pre-war appearance, including Castle Square. The King Sigmund monument was among the first to be restored.

[Heatseeker 0]

"I would stand with God against man, rather than with man against God"

Aristides de Sousa Mendes

Remember the heroes and those who achieved the status of what we can consider great man and women .

[Newleafman 0]

Thank you Poppa, for your 6 year service in WWII. Miss you and love you.

Also thanks to all veterans, and those who left us too soon, fighting for our freedom.

[shinRaiden 0]

A friend gave me this some years ago, been unable to find the original source, although indications seemed to be of UK/CA/AU origin...

Quote[/b] ]

Women and Whiskey and War

They are trying to gentle the gender,

to civilize western man.

They think that your thoughts are too dirty --

not to mention your heart and your hands!

They bid us to banish our weapons,

For bravery is "macho" they say.

We must learn that weeping's not weakness --

and put it on public display.

They know not of weeping that's private,

They know not how our hearts can break.

They think that a soldier's not human --

the arrogance of the mistake!

Let us charge our glasses for drinking

a dram to our friend in the Corps,

A toast to a life worth the living --

To women and whiskey and war!

Not to women to serve as our playmates,

But partners to stand at our side,

Our equals under the heavens,

And first in our hearts and our pride.

Not whisky to burn out the senses,

But a dram of fine highland malt

To share with our friends over stories,

And ease the pain of our faults.

Not war as a game for the sadist,

But honor for men who would fight,

Refuse acquiescence to slavery,

And lay down their lives for the Right!

They are trying to gentle the gender,

But there are wolves in the world,

And who will answer the summons

When a Fuhrer's next flag is unfurled?

They are trying to gentle the gender,

But when the old wolf's at the door

They will beg for men who are living

For Women, whisky and war!

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

"I would stand with God against man, rather than with man against God"

Aristides de Sousa Mendes

Remember the heroes and those who achieved the status of what we can consider great man and women .

The Oskar Schindler of Portugal

[cozza 24]

RIP vetrens of WW2. both sides Axis and allied fought bravely and that we never see another war like that.

[Winters 1]

Thanks grampa, RIP

[denoir 0]

I would recommend people to see the part of the most excellent documentary series "The World at War", called "Who won World War II?" (part 28/35).

It's basically a long interview with Stephen E. Ambrose (American history professor, today most famous for his "Band of Brothers" book) where he analyzes the bigger picture of the war. Basically he looks at how the countries involved in the war were before the war started and after the war ended.

It's quite interesting and puts things into the perspective. The biggest winner was, perhaps not surprisingly the US. Before the war it was in economic depression, most of its industry was foreign owned and the country was generally in a bad shape. After WW2 it emerged as the primary economic power in the world. During WW2 its industry was built, the mobilization factor was the lowest of all parties involved (12 million out of a population of 170 million and with only 6 million actually shipped overseas). Its casualties per capita was the smallest (250,000 which was actually less than the number of people that died the six years before that as a direct result of the immense poverty brought on by the depression - hunger and disease). Thanks to the Lend Lease program the US got full control of British owned companies in the US (part of the deal). When the war ended massive amounts of money were lent to western European nations - with strings attached. In effect western Europe became completely dependent on US industry - a dependence that lasted for some 50 years, in short a very good deal. So overall, according to Ambrose, America was the big winner of WW2 - it paid the least and got the most out of it. (Ambrose also comments that this was however not how it was perceived by the US population who thought that they had faught a war that wasn't their problem to start with, that they saved Europe's butt from the Nazis and that the Russians got all the good stuff. He says that looking at the figures shows that this couldn't be further from the truth, that WW2 saved America economically and while the Russians got a piece of the pie, the American was far bigger).

Russia paid a higher price, in terms of damage to the country and casualties. It did however gain control over eastern Europe. In the long run it did pay off and Russia ended up better than it started.

Germany, both east and west while paying a dear price for the war got a lot of help rebuilding the industry. The west German industry was integrated to a large degree with the French (the Coal and Steel Union - the roots of the European Union). While

The country that got the worst deal out of the war, according to Ambrose, was Britain. It was the most mobilized country of the ones in the war. Its industrial infrastructure was completely worn out. It was completely broke and had huge debts. It had lost all its sources of income from industry it owned in the US. Casualties per capita were high. So basically, Britain paid the highest price and got the least out of it.

Of course, this is a rather cynical impersonal view. On the level of many individuals, the suffering was great, even in those countries that profited greatly from the war.

To give a personal example, Sweden was one of the countries that in Europe economically profited most from the war. The country benefited greatly from simply not being in ruins and its industry being intact. On the personal side however, my great grandfather was killed in January 1945 in Budapest. He was working at the Swedish embassy there and it happened at the time when the Red Army chased the Germans out of town. While it never was clear what happened, it is likely that he simply got caught in crossfire.

[marcusjm 0]

Just one question about that poster (way up). Wasn't Finland techincally on the wrong side of the war? Just curious about the choice of flags on that poster. Same with Sweden, what part did they play really? (minus volunteers on either side)

I mean just for coherence. There's obviously no Italian or German flag in that poster .

marcus

[Gadger 0]

Just one question about that poster (way up). Wasn't Finland techincally on the wrong side of the war? Just curious about the choice of flags on that poster. Same with Sweden, what part did they play really? (minus volunteers on either side)

I mean just for coherence. There's obviously no Italian or German flag in that poster .

marcus

Finland never took part in WW2, or so they maintain. It is claimed, and generally accepted, that Finland fought three seperate wars during the time-frame of WW2.

The first being the Winter War against the Soviet Union from 1939-1940.

The second being the Continuation War again against the Soviet Union, although much support in terms of men & materials was provided by Germany.

The third and last war was the Lapland War. This time being fought against the Germans in northern Finland.

Finland was the only democracy to be at war with another democracy during this period (the UK declared war on Finland in December 1940, although there was no instances of armed combat between the two nations.)

Sweden remained neutral throughout the conflicts, although many Swede's volunteered to fight for both Finland & to a lesser extent, Germany. Sweden payed a heavy toll for its neutrallity during the conflict, it was literally "under the thumb" of its agressive German neighbours and its iron industry's bled dry to help produce the German war-machine.

[denoir 0]

Sweden was in theory and in practice neutral until 1942. In the middle of '42 stories and refugees started flowing in from Norway where Jews were starting to get persecuted. The Swedish government then made the decision that Sweden would provide refuge and humanitarian aid to people fleeing from the Nazis.

In 1943, when it was becoming obvious that Germany would lose, Sweden started actively, but covertly helping the allies. Swedish engineers working in Germany were part of a large spy network that reported to the allies about German industry (sites etc).

Basically, during the war Sweden was terrified that it would end up like Denmark and Norway. So when Germany demanded something, they complied (mostly regarding iron ore exports but a few times even moving troops through Swedish territory).

Before the war, there was a significant minority of Nazi supporters in Sweden. That support however evaporated after the German invasion of neutral Norway.

[marcusjm 0]

My grandfather (and of course others) served in the homefront as AA man in Finland, he was mainly active in the Civil War so I'm aware of those wars .

One could of course also wonder about the inclusion of Israel, a nation that didn't exist until 48.

BM

[sputnik monroe 102]

[Rikki Tikki Tavi 0]

How many of ya'll had relatives in the war, and what did they do? If this is too much off-topic, just tell me...

[Llauma 0]

How many of ya'll had relatives in the war, and what did they do? If this is too much off-topic, just tell me...

My grandfather was a reservist for the Finnish army but he never got in battle as far as I know. He's been dead since before I was born so I haven't been able to ask him.

The only close relative who I know have been fighting in a war is my great great grandfather who fought in the Finnish civil war and was executed by a firing squad.

[Winters 1]

How many of ya'll had relatives in the war, and what did they do? If this is too much off-topic, just tell me...

My grandfather was in the US navy and worked on a supply ship, he died a few months ago at the ripe age of 93.

[The Frenchman 0]

My grandfather was in the Coast Guard during WW2, stationed at Fort Niagara, a former French/English/American fort on the Niagara River.

Picture of the lighthouse where he worked:

After the war he went to the Soviet Union for some reason I don't remember.

[FerretFangs 0]

Two great uncles served in Europe. One was with the Screaming Eagles, the other served in Italy. Both of my grand fathers served in the Pacific theater. My dad's dad was a landing craft driver, who helped liberate Guam, and Okinawa. My mom's dad was a gunners mate aboard the battle ship USS New Jersey. He didn't see combat before the war's end.

[brgnorway 0]

My grandfather was in the resistance, got caught and was sent to the Sachsenhauzen consentration camp.

[shinRaiden 0]

Dad's Dad was a doctoral candidate 'drafted' into MIT's Rad Lab, tested prototype airborne radar antenna systems. Later assigned as primary radar implementation and integration engineer to the 15th and later the 8th Army Air Forces. Narrowly avoided being dropped out of the bomb bay at altitude over the North Atlantic for pranking the snoozing crew of a B17 into a thunderstorm the weekend prior to D-Day. Military-equivelency civilian pass equivelent to full Colonel, much to the dismay of his Seargant cousin. Later worked on early prototype nuclear reactors and systems considered for space propulsion. Instrumental in the team that documented the minimum critical mass of uranium at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. Still living, just turned 91, in great health. And glows in the dark according to us grandkids.

Dad's mom was at home in Boston taking care of kids in college housing near MIT. Still living, in her late eighties.

Mom's dad was a Submarine commander at Pearl. Was invited by the captain of the USS Nevada to spend the night on-board the Nevada after the all-band contest-concert. Grandpa declined, citing business early the next morning on base and was safely in barracks Sunday morning December 7th 1941. Served out in the Pacific as a submarine commander. Later worked in the Navy and as a civilian contractor on naval missile command and control systems. Died in the mid eighties and buried with honors.

Mom's mom enlisted due to rumors about potential nurse drafts. Served in hospitals in Coronado, Pearl, and Manila. There was a trip to Hanford Facility near the time of her enlistment, I don't remember what the circumstances were at the moment. Got a monkey bite in Manila that developed into life-long health complications. Met and married grandpa after the war in Pearl. Died in early nineties and buried with honors.

[EiZei 0]

My grandfather did active duty both in the winter war and the continuation war.

[Ares1978 0]

How many of ya'll had relatives in the war, and what did they do? If this is too much off-topic, just tell me...

Mom's dad: 1941-1944, infantry. Still alive.

Dad's dad: 1939-1940, 1941-1944, coastal infantry, coastal artillery and coastal AA-artillery. Hanko front, Suursaari. Died earlier this year.