Pope Given Last Rites

[gandalf the white 0]

Quote[/b] ]

I hope the pope makes it but he is old.

Makes it? Makes it where? To the fridge? He's dead, it's just that nobody has claimed him yet.

Dude show some fucking respect.

I wouln't call five operations a day a living, more like "kept alive" , like that woman in the US.

I know that he is a spiritual leader, but he is a human aswell, and in my opinion humans cannot be forced to live. if he doesn't wants to go on anymore, let him die.

@ pope

You did a great job, though I dont know any of it, I am sure that you played a huge role in the past years. you earned your rest.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I know that he is a spiritual leader, but he is a human aswell, and in my opinion humans cannot be forced to live. if he doesn't wants to go on anymore, let him die.

Unlike Schiavo, he has a living will that gives his wishes...

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....e_dc_20

Quote[/b] ]

Pope's 'Living Will' Wants Life Support to the End

Thu Mar 31, 2:07 AM ET World - Reuters

By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor

PARIS (Reuters) - Pope John Paul, now being fed through a nasal tube because of his throat problems, effectively wrote his own "living will" last year in a speech declaring some life-extending treatments a moral duty for Roman Catholics.

The ailing Pontiff sharply narrowed Catholic guidelines for treating patients nearing death in March 2004 when he described tube-feeding as a normal treatment rather than an extraordinary measure that can be stopped if all hope of recovery fades.

This indicates he would want to be kept alive by artificial means even if he fell into a coma or a persistent vegetative state, such as the brain-damaged Terri Schiavo in the United States whose feeding tubes have been removed after 15 years.

"The Pope's statement would have to be considered the equivalent of his living will," said Father Thomas Reese S.J., editor of the Jesuit weekly America in New York. "It would be very difficult to unplug him if it came to that."

Increasingly popular in the United States, a living will is a written statement adults make to indicate whether they want doctors to use all means possible to keep them alive at life's end or to let them die if all hope of recovery seems lost.

As the Schiavo case shows, modern medicine can extend basic body functioning for years -- a worrying prospect for the world's largest church if that means its elected-for-life leader is incapacitated indefinitely.

The Catholic Church has traditionally taught that doctors and families could end artificial life-extending measures in good conscience if a dying patient's prospects seemed hopeless.

AGAINST "CULTURE OF DEATH"

John Paul, who has long railed against a "culture of death" he saw in abortion and artificial birth control, surprised moral theologians in a speech in March 2004 by insisting Catholics can no longer make such decisions even in extreme cases.

"The intrinsic value and the personal dignity of every human being does not change no matter what the concrete situation of his life," he told doctors and ethics experts attending a Rome conference about patients in a vegetative state.

"The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life, not a medical act," he said. Denying them this treatment would amount to "euthanasia by omission."

"Considerations about the 'quality of life,' often actually dictated by psychological, social and economic pressures, cannot take precedence over general principles," he said.

John Grabowski, associate professor of ethics at Catholic University of America in Washington, said the Pope had made his views clear but "left many theologians scratching their heads."

The problem was that he expressed this in a speech, not in a doctrinal document that made it official Church policy.

"The Pope can say any number of things but he has to tell the bishops' conferences when they have to change something," added Father James Keenan S.J., ethics professor at Boston College. "He hasn't done this."

As a result, he said, the U.S. bishops' conference and the Catholic Health Association have not renounced the more flexible earlier position even though many Catholic leaders support Schiavo's parents' demand to continue feeding her.

"We've spent centuries letting people figure out how they want to go to meet God, and now we have these fairly intrusive claims on a patient," Keenan said in his critical assessment of how the Pope was changing Church teaching on the end of life.

"It doesn't seem good for the Church to rethink how to die when the Pope himself is ailing," he said. "The dying of a Pope should not set our agenda."

[orson 0]

The few words he mumbled this week have been deciphered..

he said " ... just let me die you cruel bastards..."

[Ares1978 0]

Dude show some fucking respect.   Whether you like him or not, millions of people around the world regard him as their spiritual leader, and while I don't personally agree with some of his positions, as others have said, he has done alot to promote world peace.

I hope that when your loved ones pass away people do not make such comments about them.   Anyone's death is not something to be made fun of unless of coarse the circumstances surrounding their death were somewhat amusing.  

But as others said, he is not dead yet and hopefully he will recover.  But at his age, a high fever and infection is very very serious.  But he's a tough old man with an amazing will to live and who even despite enormous pain has only until recently never failed to do his duties as the Pope despite physical weakness and pain.  

For that alone I admire him.  My prayers go out to da Papa!

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

Dude I'm showing him more respect than he deserves (considering his views) and it's not like I'm pissing on his grave.

I just hope somebody would show him a bit of mercy and pull the plug already. You know, like any normal person would want for a loved one. What has he got to recover to? Another couple of weeks of agony before the next crash?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

He is one of the best popes the catholic church ever had! You may criticise whatever you want but he was a highly sophisticated persion with an open heart... and that coming from a protestant!

[Ares1978 0]

He is one of the best popes the catholic church ever had! You may criticise whatever you want but he was a highly sophisticated persion with an open heart... and that coming from a protestant!

His predecessor would probably had been better.

[miles teg 1]

Dude show some fucking respect.   Whether you like him or not, millions of people around the world regard him as their spiritual leader, and while I don't personally agree with some of his positions, as others have said, he has done alot to promote world peace.

I hope that when your loved ones pass away people do not make such comments about them.   Anyone's death is not something to be made fun of unless of coarse the circumstances surrounding their death were somewhat amusing.  

But as others said, he is not dead yet and hopefully he will recover.  But at his age, a high fever and infection is very very serious.  But he's a tough old man with an amazing will to live and who even despite enormous pain has only until recently never failed to do his duties as the Pope despite physical weakness and pain.  

For that alone I admire him.  My prayers go out to da Papa!

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

Dude I'm showing him more respect than he deserves (considering his views) and it's not like I'm pissing on his grave.

I just hope somebody would show him a bit of mercy and pull the plug already. You know, like any normal person would want for a loved one. What has he got to recover to? Another couple of weeks of agony before the next crash?

More then he deserves?  And who are you to pass judgement on what he deserves?  Who are you to say that they should not try to save him?  Did you not read his living will?  He wants to live.  He would not have lasted this long if he wanted to die and would have died a LONG time ago if he was tired of living.  Nor in the past few days would he have gone to the window to attempt to speak.  

Your words are in effect pissing on him and pissing on every Catholic and non-Catholic who loves the Pope.  What religion are you? Maybe you're not religious but have someone else who you admire.  Do you admire your father or mother? Would you like people who didn't like them talking shit about them?  Probably not.  So please show a little respect at the very least by not saying rude comments about him or just not saying anything all if all you can do is say rude things about him.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Ares1978 0]

More then he deserves?  And who are you to pass judgement on what he deserves?  Who are you to say that they should not try to save him?  Did you not read his living will?  He wants to live.  He would not have lasted this long if he wanted to die and would have died a LONG time ago if he was tired of living.  Nor in the past few days would he have gone to the window to attempt to speak.  

Who are you to take away my right to pass judgement on what he deserves? And save him? Nobody lives forever and he sure as hell doesn't have a future. Who are you to say that he can't die? He has lasted this long because he doesn't have the capacity to tell them to stop bringing him back. In his condition, he'd be lucky to realize what decade it is.

Quote[/b] ]

Your words are in effect pissing on him and pissing on every Catholic and non-Catholic who loves the Pope.  What religion are you? Maybe your not religious have someone else who you admire.  Do you admire your father or mother? Would you like people who didn't like them talking shit about them?  Probably not.  So please show a little respect at the very least by not saying rude comments about him.

You know where you can shove that accusation. What do you have against people speaking their minds? Who are you to say that people can't say what they think? Can't handle the fact that somebody might dislike something or somebody you love? Dude, deal with it.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

You can speak your mind. But there are times when it is inappropriate to do so. Being able to sense that depends on your manners and you emotional sensitivity. Which of the two are you lacking?

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]He has lasted this long because he doesn't have the capacity to tell them to stop bringing him back.

You don't know what he wants so quit pretending you do. No one does but The Pope.

Quote[/b] ]You know where you can shove that accusation. What do you have against people speaking their minds? Who are you to say that people can't say what they think? Can't handle the fact that somebody might dislike something or somebody you love?

But what is your purpose or point to post in this thread then? To feel good about yourself? To piss on everyone's parade? To be the "bad guy" or stir up controversy?

No one said you can't post your mind, but what are you accomplishing by doing it in this thread at this moment? I question your motives, not your right to speak your mind.

I posted this not because I love the Pope, nor even because I am religious, but because a world leader is dying.

[HotShot 0]

Maybe its just an Aprils fools joke. He'll be up tomorrow doing break dancing.

[ralphwiggum 6]

let's keep it civilized here, shall we?

[breaker44 0]

Ah, Placebo? You ah, wanna shut this thread down? Hello?

-BreakerOut

[ran 0]

As a french humorist said here "he's been dying for roughly 20 years now".

He's never been the same again since he's been shot at ...

I'm somewhat atheist (I have to admit I tend to believe only when it reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally suits me though) but I have to say he was great man, he did a lot for peace around the world and for the reform of the church aswell.

Now, look forward for the TV broadcast under all angles of the Vatican buildings and long long live reports from the medias during the conclave.... (he's not dead yet, but tonight, tomorow, in 3 days or in a week, I'm pretty sure he'll be gone).

[Akira 0]

Vatican says pop is suffering from kidney and heart failures and his breathing has become shallow. I doubt he will live an hour.

[Ares1978 0]

You don't know what he wants so quit pretending you do. No one does but The Pope.

Really? There seems to be a lot of people claiming to know what he wants. Ironically, they couldn't do anything, even if he wanted to end his life.

Quote[/b] ]But what is your purpose or point to post in this thread then? To feel good about yourself? To piss on everyone's parade? To be the "bad guy" or stir up controversy?

You obviously didn't read my post. I was criticising the sanity of hoping that he recovers. Do you mind if someone asks the question: "To what purpose?" (Did you read this, Albert Schweizer?) There is no controversy in that subject, yet you people consider it taboo and start mouthing off, accusing me of "pissing on everyone's parade".

Quote[/b] ]No one said you can't post your mind, but what are you accomplishing by doing it in this thread at this moment? I question your motives, not your right to speak your mind.

Sure he was saying it. If somebody can't speak his mind without somebody else whining about it being spoken, that's exactly what's going on.

What are your motives then? Kick "the bad guy"? Burn the witch?

You can speak your mind. But there are times when it is inappropriate to do so. Being able to sense that depends on your manners and you emotional sensitivity. Which of the two are you lacking?

This is a perfect time to say these things and frankly, I couldn't care less about your emotional instability.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Really? There seems to be a lot of people claiming to know what he wants. Ironically, they couldn't do anything, even if he wanted to end his life.

They can say he wants to live be because his living will, already refered to and quoted in one of the articles, states he wants to remain on life support. How is that hard to understand?

On the other hand, your assertations that he just wants to die have no basis in anything that has been shown or quoted.

[Ares1978 0]

They can say he wants to live be because his living will, already refered to and quoted in one of the articles, states he wants to remain on life support. How is that hard to understand?  

On the other hand, your assertations that he just wants to die have no basis in anything that has been shown or quoted.

And what does that prove? Nothing. You don't know that it A. really is his will, and B. really is his current will. He hasn't been running the show in years.

And like I said, he doesn't have a choice.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

German news media are now reporting that the doors of St. Paul's Cathedral have been shut - a tradition that signalls the death of the pope

RIP

Ares and everyone else - stop argueing NOW.

[Acecombat 0]

Ares are you always this insensitive towards people?

Quote[/b] ]You obviously didn't read my post. I was criticising the sanity of hoping that he recovers. Do you mind if someone asks the question: "To what purpose?"

I think a figurehead for one of the worlds largest religions has got quite a reason to live for. Now reverse this question yourself to what purpose do you live for? A virtual nobody on the surface of the world i guess if you died right now no one would feel much for you either.

[Akira 0]

They can say he wants to live be because his living will, already refered to and quoted in one of the articles, states he wants to remain on life support. How is that hard to understand?

On the other hand, your assertations that he just wants to die have no basis in anything that has been shown or quoted.

And what does that prove? Nothing. You don't know that it A. really is his will, and B. really is his current will. He hasn't been running the show in years.

Give me a break. You think its some Vatican conspiracy to try and keep him alive?? I suppose its actually Annie Potts' will that they are quoting? A will is current if there is no other will to supercede it. A will doesn't have to be current to the day, the year or even the decade.

So I know this is real difficult for you to process while you continue to troll, but the Pope's will, and the edicts he made regarding life support, pretty much null and void your argument.

EDIT:

Quote[/b] ]German news media are now reporting that the doors of St. Paul's Cathedral have been shut - a tradition that signalls the death of the pope

I have never been religious, and I certianly didn't agree with many of the Church views, but he's been around as long as I can remember. I remember most of his activities during the Cold War.

Academically speaking, I agree with the poster that stated watching this century old tradition of a conclave will be interesting.

[belgerot 33]

Though I left Catholicism some time ago, I still hope he passes with ease. As long as I've been alive he has always been there. Where ever he could go he would, and in good faith. I hope he finds the peace he seeks on the other side, it is hard to see a good man pass.

[Acecombat 0]

I just heard on tv , he is dead according to italian media.

[Akira 0]

Italian Media reporting Pope John Paul II dead.

EDIT: Ditto what Acecombat said

EDIT2: CNN had a breaking news banner saying the above, but now it is gone...

[CAPAIRMAN 0]

Vatican now saying he is still alive, but in grave condition. unfortunately he probably wont recover. People that new him say that he would not be sad to die, but rather happy to go to the next phase of his journey.