The Middle East part 2

[Messiah 2]

oops... wrong topic

[EiZei 0]

Christian Science Monitor biased? What excatly is your idea of a neutral news agency?

[Bordoy 0]

Quote[/b] ]What did israel hope to achieve though? Surely they're not as ill minded as to declare war on Syria over this?

The flyover was a warning to Syria not to get involved. Wierd thing was that the Syrians fired at the aircraft.

[Messiah 2]

from what the news agencys report, the intention was to scare monger the Syrians into extraditing the Hamas leader, who has been living in Syria to avoid arrest/assasination, to Israel. The apparent intention to gain information or a bargaining chip against the Hamas militants.

my point was that bar declaring open war on Syria, a few passes by Jets arent going to do much surely? Seems Israels grumpy and wants all of its neighbours to know

[Warden 0]

from what the news agencys report, the intention was to scare monger the Syrians into extraditing the Hamas leader, who has been living in Syria to avoid arrest/assasination, to Israel. The apparent intention to gain information or a bargaining chip against the Hamas militants.

my point was that bar declaring open war on Syria, a few passes by Jets arent going to do much surely? Seems Israels grumpy and wants all of its neighbours to know

Well i think well know that living in a foreign country is no protection from israel.

Hamas has agreed to the conditional release of the Israeli soldier whose abduction sparked a crisis in the Middle East, it has been claimed.

Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak made the claim but added that Israel has not yet accepted the offer.

It comes after electricity transformers in northern Gaza were hit by Israeli shells, cutting off power to much of the region amid the escalating crisis.

Israel earlier arrested eight members of the Palestinian Cabinet, among over 80 others, and it continues to bombard Gaza.

Hamas gunmen have been preparing for an invasion if last-minute diplomacy fails.

The tension continues to be ratcheted up as Israel attempts to secure the safe return of one of their soldiers, abducted on Sunday.

The country's Defence Minister Amir Peretz has approved the next stage of Israel's incursion into Gaza and has warned of worse to come.

Sky News' Emma Hurd said Israeli artillery shells have been raining onto open ground in Gaza - but so far they have been away from residential areas.

The US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has urged restraint on both sides.

Snatched: Cpl Gilad Shalit Earlier, the Israelis launched a rocket attack on a car in Gaza City said to be carrying a senior member of Hamas, the ruling Palestinian party, who escaped with slight wounds.

The head of Israel's southern military command has claimed that Palestinian Deputy PM Nasser Shaer was one of over 60 Hamas officials arrested in an early morning sweep in the West Bank.

Abu Ubaida, a spokesman for Hamas's armed wing, called the arrests "an attempt by the occupation to blackmail us to give them information about the captured soldier."

He added: "This is not going to happen."

The Israeli soldier, Corporal Gilad Shalit, 19, was snatched by Palestinians in an armed raid on a border crossing in Gaza.

Israel holds Hamas responsible for the abduction and has demanded they ensure his safe return or suffer the consequences.

In another development, the body of Eliahu Asheri, an eighteen-year-old jewish settler kidnapped by Palestinian militants, was recovered from the West Bank.

Israeli Army Radio reported that a Palestinian militant group, the Popular Resistance Committees, claimed to have killed Mr Asheri.

From Sky News.

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ]What did israel hope to achieve though? Surely they're not as ill minded as to declare war on Syria over this?

The flyover was a warning to Syria not to get involved. Wierd thing was that the Syrians fired at the aircraft.

What's weird by fireing at a foreign military aircraft moving in your airspace without permission?

[Bernadotte 0]

Not according to what historian Benny Morris has been discovering in the IDF archives.  Have you ever heard of IDF Operations like Dani and Hiram?

I don't suppose it means anything that the guy has been criticized for fabricating evidance among other things by other historians, does it?

Actually, he was accused of believing others who had originally claimed that there were no deportation orders.  He has since corrected the mistake.  So, quite contrary to what you've claimed, Palestinian Arab residents were deported rather than encouraged to stay. And during Operation Dani "about 70,000 Palestinians were summarily expelled from Lydda and Ramle."

And it doesn't matter how you choose to interpret what the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs has said. Palestine was never, and has never been a country.

Interpretation?  It was a quotation, not an interpretation.  I didn't insert the word "country."  Please use your own eyes and a dictionary if necessary, but that is exactly what it says whether you like it or not.  Palestine had borders, its own currency and citizens with passports.  Ariel Sharon was even born there and had Palestinian citizenship during the first 20 years of his life.  If you are having difficulty accepting this then why don't you post a counter-argument instead of simple fanatical denial?

[quicksand 0]

The BBC has no choice but to be impartial. The BBC has to report 'news' - not 'news according to Israel' or 'news according to Palestine' just plain, straightforward news without an opinion.

Bullshit.

I am growing weary and my eyes are starting to hurt reading your idiotic one liner rants.Rather then crying foul,yelling Bullshit and linking to a journalism collage dropout that found a warm place for his retarded views in blogging,how about you express your own views in sentences.

Or better yet just answer this simple question.(As taken from the blog you linked to)Do you regard BBC as biased because they misspelled the name of an Israeli 3 times,used the word "Islamic militant" instead of "terrorist" and the fact that there are more search results on the site when looking up for "far-right" rather then "far-left"?

[Bordoy 0]

Quote[/b] ]What did israel hope to achieve though? Surely they're not as ill minded as to declare war on Syria over this?

The flyover was a warning to Syria not to get involved. Wierd thing was that the Syrians fired at the aircraft.

What's weird by fireing at a foreign military aircraft moving in your airspace without permission?

I did'nt mean it like that. Maybe I wrote it down wrong.

[Nemesis6 0]

Or better yet just answer this simple question.(As taken from the blog you linked to)Do you regard BBC as biased because they misspelled the name of an Israeli 3 times,used the word "Islamic militant" instead of "terrorist" and the fact that there are more search results on the site when looking up for "far-right" rather then "far-left"?

Gladly. However, I don't respond well to you calling my opinions idiotic. Also, contrary to what you say, I don't yell in mere debates. I don't care if the BBC misspells his name. That's a mistake anyone can make, this, however, goes way beyond a simple accident or slipup.

[Bernadotte 0]

I don't care if the BBC misspells his name. That's a mistake anyone can make, this, however, goes way beyond a simple accident or slipup.

Let me help you again.  Read the section title:

Quote[/b] ]

Personal reflections by BBC

correspondents around the world

Not only is it biased, it's "Personal."  And BBC tells you right up front.

Unfortunately, Honest Reporting prefers not to share that info with us.

[Nemesis6 0]

Not only is it biased, it's "Personal." And BBC tells you right up front.

Unfortunately, Honest Reporting prefers not to share that info with us.

Now hold on, another guy said that it was impossible for the BBC to be biased because it doesn't report any "side"; that it merely reports the news.

And it doesn't matter if it's the reporter's own opinion. Check out the BBC section on this page.

[scary 0]

The BBC has no choice but to be impartial. The BBC has to report 'news' - not 'news according to Israel' or 'news according to Palestine' just plain, straightforward news without an opinion.

Bullshit.

So your idea of evidence is a blog? William Porter should feel proud that you hold bloggers in such high regard. Or is it just those that use 'lefty/leftist' as if it were somehow insulting.

Gladly. However, I don't respond well to you calling my opinions idiotic. Also, contrary to what you say, I don't yell in mere debates. I don't care if the BBC misspells his name. That's a mistake anyone can make, this, however, goes way beyond a simple accident or slipup.

It doesn't take you long to go back to 'Honest Reporting', does it.

So, now your idea of evidence of BBC bias is that in a program broadcast on Radio 4 and the World Service called 'From Our Own Correspondent', that is about the thoughts and experiences of correspondents - and isn't actually a news program - one of them said that she cried. Now, that was not because Arafat was ill, but because she was thinking about her shared experiences of the siege.

Instead of linking to the most banal blogs and revisionist sites you can find on the web, try doing some of your own research and develop your own judgements. People will take you a lot more seriously than they will while you continue to regurgitate and assimilate the opinions of random nut-jobs on the internet.

I'll help get you started with some examples of other episodes of 'From Our Own Correspondent':

Israeli elections.

Qassam rocket attacks

First encounters with a militant family

Life in post-occupation Gaza

The evidence so far suggests that the BBC shows stories from all sides. Try looking some more yourself.

[Nemesis6 0]

Instead of linking to the most banal blogs and revisionist sites you can find on the web, try doing some of your own research and develop your own judgements. People will take you a lot more seriously than they will while you continue to regurgitate and assimilate the opinions of random nut-jobs on the internet.

I have. And what I saw supported my opinions - A local newspaper for instance, used the translated text -

Chechen insurgents -- Or freedom fighters --...

I got a photograph, and I translated it. So don't say I don't do my own research.

I know it might be hard to accept, but media bias exists. And you have made no rebuttal. You've only attacked the people who've reported it.

[scary 0]

I have. And what I saw supported my opinions

Well, there is your first error. Research is supposed to be undertaken without opinion, anyone can research something in order to support their own opinion. Just remember the relationship between opinions and arseholes.

Quote[/b] ] - A local newspaper for instance, used the translated text -

Chechen insurgents -- Or freedom fighters --...

I got a photograph, and I translated it. So don't say I don't do my own research.

I'm probably pre-empting a few people here when I say, huh? Local newspaper? Photograph? Straw man, anyone?

Could you perhaps show the last time you used your own research in this thread, particularly in regard to whether the BBC is biased against Israel? Could you also explain how

'Chechen insurgents -- Or freedom fighters --...'

is indicative of media bias?

Quote[/b] ]I know it might be hard to accept, but media bias exists.

Again with the straw man. The media has bias, as you are well aware, no one has said it doesn't. The debate is about the BBC and its supposed bias against Israel.

Quote[/b] ]And you have made no rebuttal. You've only attacked the people who've reported it.

No rebuttal? Are those links at the bottom of my previous post broken? I just tried them and they are not. They definitely show stories of Israel/Palestine from different angles, which refutes the notion that the BBC is biased.

As for attacking people, ad hominems seems to be your favourite recourse as soon as you are aware that your secundum quid arguments are failing.

[Bernadotte 0]

Now hold on, another guy said that it was impossible for the BBC to be biased because it doesn't report any "side"; that it merely reports the news.

Have you ever considered identifying or even quoting your sources of information?  Or do you seriously expect me to take your word for it that "another guy said that it was impossible for the BBC to be biased?"

[Nemesis6 0]

The BBC has no choice but to be impartial. The BBC has to report 'news' - not 'news according to Israel' or 'news according to Palestine' just plain, straightforward news without an opinion.

There.

[Bernadotte 0]

Nemesis6, saying "the BBC has no choice but to be impartial" is not the same as saying "it was impossible for the BBC to be biased."  It's like saying "the English team has no choice but to score in overtime" is the same as saying "it is impossible for the English team to miss."  Even an English team fanatic can see the difference.  Unfortunately, you don't see the diffence between the comments about the BBC, and that indicates to me that your support for Israel goes well beyond mere fanatacism.

I sincerely hope you don't post anything racist or make other comments that might get you banned from this forum.  You see, I feel it's very important to expose fanatical mindsets like yours so that outsiders can more easily see for themselves what the Palestinian people have had to endure for well over 80 years. Perhaps the Palestinian people will have a better chance at seeing a just settlement if we keep giving extremists like you, MP_Phonix and Avon enough rope to hang yourselves with.

[Balschoiw 0]

You stay away for the weekend and all you get is:

1. A new name

2. Another Nazi title

3. Some racial bullshit

4. A lot of semantic errors.

mp_phoenix I will not accept you calling me a nazi or trying to portray me as one. I am in fact a strict opposer of Nazis as anyone here who tried to liven up some nazi stuff can testify. I have served for black people, asians, people who were surpressed, starved or attacked for genocidal reasons and I don´t need to have a freaked-out teenager giving me nazi-names.

Every offensive post will be reported from now on. I´m fed of that "If I have nothing to argue, I go for insults" posting procedures.

If anyone here is spewing bullshit by numbers and voicing things that are sounding alot like Nazi ideology, it´s you. You´re more a Nazi today than I ever can be.

[Garcia 0]

You stay away for the weekend and all you get is:

1. A new name

2. Another Nazi title

3. Some racial bullshit

4. A lot of semantic errors.

Quote[/b] ]

mp_phoenix I will not accept you calling me a nazi or trying to portray me as one. I am in fact a strict opposer of Nazis as anyone here who tried to liven up some nazi stuff can testify. I have served for black people, asians, people who were surpressed, starved or attacked for genocidal reasons and I don´t need to have a freaked-out teenager giving me nazi-names.

Every offensive post will be reported from now on. I´m fed of that "If I have nothing to argue, I go for insults" posting procedures.

It's the old exploiting WWII thingy It's kinda sad that the new generation so often seems to grip after the tragedy of WWII and what happened to the jews just to defend themself against critism for what Israel is doing today. You're easily a nazi and anti-semitic nowdays...

[bucket man 2]

Yeah well I guess its no suprise if Israeli pulls the nazi-card. Their government does so too often and it is getting rather ridicilous .

[mp_phonix 0]

Congratulations all Anti-Israeli ppl,

A Quasam Rocket fell 1km from my house

[Garcia 0]

Congratulations all Anti-Israeli ppl,

A Quasam Rocket fell 1km from my house

Poor you, you've got it 1000 times worse than the palestinian who's had a tank run over their house and that currently are having problems getting their hands on some water and some other problems.

You wana know what? I've got it even worse. My 3 months old mobil phone is gone. We got hell, right? Those palestinians sure have a easy time over there, lucky bastards...

[mp_phonix 0]

lol

[Bernadotte 0]

Congratulations all Anti-Israeli ppl,

A Quasam Rocket fell 1km from my house

Why congratulate us?  Whose ideals and politics are your leaders following; ours or yours?  Do you honestly think those Palestinians who fired that rocket did so because of us?  Your post makes as much sense as someone in New Orleans congratulating anti-global warming activists for Hurricane Katrina.

Get real, dude!