The Middle East part 2

[Bernadotte 0]

However a nuclear facility is somewhat of an easier target to destroy. It's great big industrial complex.

No it's not.  I've inspected some that could easily fit into 3 or 4 subway stations.

The Iraq reactor building, is still standing.

Really?  Then good luck attacking an underground facility if they couldn't even level a surface complex.

If Iran goes nuclear, they are free of us. We will never militarily interfere with them again.

Um... How terrible!!    

[Baff2 0]

Great for them, not so good for me.

If it happens, it happens. I wish them all the best of luck.

but much as Iranians are all lovely and immensely civilised people, it is my wish to prevent that.

I value my position in the pecking order and I'm not adverse to pecking to keep it.

I prefer that they have to trust in my good nature, than I have to trust in theirs.

3 or 4 subway stations is hopefully a detectable target. I just don't see depth as an issue. If it's buried under a mountain, I can still destroy it's water supply, or bury it even deeper. It's always easier to destroy something than it is to build it.

I think their strength is not so much the depth of the bunkers but multiple redundancy. They are all spread about all over the place. One strike by a lone air force such as Israels or even Britains isn't going to be capable of getting it all. It's a much tougher nut to crack.

Once you put an air armada over there, friends willing something the size of Gulf War one, you can degrade all the defenses and pretty soon strike what you please when you please. The key to it is overwhelming force.

And my point about the Iraqi reactor stands. They didn't have to level it to end it's usefulness forever. Damaging some critical components is enough to stop production. And that's the sole objective.

[Bernadotte 0]

I prefer that they have to trust in my good nature, than I have to trust in theirs.

Well, we don't exactly see them discussing how to destroy your bunkers, do we?  

[scary 0]

What is the delivery system?

Aeroplane? Artillery? Ballisitic missile? Submarine launched Ballistic missile?

The Israelis make some pretty sophisticated air launched guided missiles.

There are a couple of possibilities.

Israel has two nuclear capable planes, F4Es and F16s, although the F4Es are deprecated so the role would most likely be taken by the F16s. The problem with fast jets as a delivery system is that they are fairly easily defended against. Even high-level bombers specifically designed for the role are at significant risk from modern air-defense systems.

While there have been rumours of Israel having nuclear artillery it is extremely unlikely due to their wastefulness in plutonium.

Theoretically it is possible for Israel to have modified some of its Harpoon missiles on its Dolphin class submarines to carry nuclear warheads, but it would be a very expensive way to get a not very useful weapon. Plus, if Germany found out they had there would be serious repercussions.

Israel's best delivery system are its Jericho missiles. However, small countries and land-based missile systems don't go very well together, they're too easy a target. France and Britain are both substantially larger than Israel but don't have land-based missiles for precisely that reason.

Of course, there is also the possibility that it's all just a ruse by Israel to make the world believe they have nuclear weapons when they don't. After all, they are awfully expensive things to maintain.

In any case, Israel's chemical and biological weapons are much more of a threat.

You try so hard, like many others, to paint me a racist/whatever, and I shrug it off because I've heard it so many times before and I know it's bull.

You are mistaken, it wasn't at all hard. Personally, I would be indulging in some serious introspection if so many people believed I were in any way racist.

Quote[/b] ]Anyway - You really think Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and Iraq are enemies of Iran? An example would be Saudi Arabia - Their only reason for cooperating with the U.S is for financial purposes and possibly for spreading Wahhabi Islamist ideologies to U.S mosques.

Iran has no friends anywhere, it just has a handful of trading partners, and many enemies.

Quote[/b] ]And note that I said LOCAL enemies, the U.S is far away, alledged proxies be damned, it'd be way too hard.

I suggest you put your reading glasses on, I said LOCAL too. By the way, I know it's not been in the news much, but the US had been nextdoor for the last three and a half years.

Quote[/b] ]Israel STILL needs nukes. Iran doesn't. Israel is the most likely target of any attack.

Just in case you missed it: nuclear weapons are not for use against a local enemy.

Could you show the evidence that Israel is the most likely target of an attack?

Quote[/b] ]To be honest, I find it strangely pacifistic that no one has touched Iran even when it attacked Israel a few months back with its proxy HizbAllah. Speaking of HizbAllah and the whole "we beat Izrail Azrail! Allah'u akbar!" attitude that many Westerners have bought into... I remember how many times HizbAllah asked Israel for Hudna during the fighting,

Perhaps no one touched Iran because not only is there no evidence that Iran had anything to do with that war, but also that Hizballah didn't actually attack Israel - kidnapping is not an attack on a nation.

Quote[/b] ]Iran says it has no intentions of making weapons. If it's not making weapons, why is it defying the IAEA?

Because they are not breaking any laws, they are doing exactly what they are entitled to under the non-proliferation treaty. If the IAEA told the US not to enrich uranium, do you honestly think that the US would comply?

Quote[/b] ]By the way, I know calling Hamas, the Palestinian government, etc, death cults seems zealous, but they have summer camps where they train their children to use guns, for Christ sake!

Britain sends it children to camps to learn not only how to use <s>guns</s> rifles, but to operate in a military unit, it's called the Army Cadet Force. The US has military schools where similar things happen. Clearly death cults.

The U.S. needs Iraq quiet so that it can get on and curb Iran.

Iran needs the U.S. busy so that it can get on and finish it's nukes so that the U.S. will never again be in a position to intervene with them.

Neither has room to compromise.

Their regional goals are opposed.

There is zero chance.

There is no evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, it is just a red herring created by the US in order to protect the mighty dollar, just like the war in Iraq. But that is for a whole other post.

[Nemesis6 0]

You're comparing the Army Cadet Force to Hamas summercamps where children learn to kill Jews and hate America?

You're either A: A socialist/marxist/RESPECT voter, or someone pretty oblivious to what happens there.

And there IS evidence Iran had something to do with that war. Iran helps HizbAllah directly with manpower and equipment on the ground. Just like Syria. We aren't aren't talking shady deals that one has to suspect is happening, there's physical evidence.

And lastly, how is attacking a foreign country by killing several of its citizens and abducting is NOT an act of war? Israel's response, no matter how you argue for it, against or for, was a neccesary lesson to Lebanon that they can't pull this shit with no consequences like they hope they can with the help of the U.N and the other tools in the West. The Palestinian and other local death cults need to learn that actions have consequences. That lesson has to be taught by the Israelis because their native governments love all who kill Jews.

[Ase290406 0]

Scary replying to your post:

About training camps- You forgot to mention that in the U.K they are not brainwashed to explode in buses and discotecs.

Or to kidnap soldier without provocation. An Hamas is a death cult beacuse it worships death. Their herous are suicide bombers, as long as you die and kill Israeli's, dosen't matter how you lived.

Hizzballa- If Hizzballa kidnaping our soldiers isn't an act of war, than us kidnapping a Syrian woulden't be so bad would it? You get my point...

Iran- It has freinds they are called: Russia,China, Venezuella, North-Korea and anybody else with an anti-Israeli/ Anti-US interests. The enemy of my enemy is my freind. And the simplest evidence for Iran developing nuklear weapons, is that it seriosly wants to destroy Israel while sharing no borders. A nuclear weapon is their only means of achiving it. Hizzballah isn't up for something like that. Here's also evidence of Israel being a prime target, just listen to Ahmidineg'ad. (Iran's President)

About the delivery systems- A good pilot can avoid AA defences, and we have good pilots. About the subs, there were publications of Israeli launch tests somewhere near Sri-lanka. But even if the Germans know about it, it doesn't mean they"ll want to say that they know. Israeli sub orders keep their industry alive, instead of being 100% dependant on the US. About land-based missiles: Easy to target? Maybe, but once they are launched it's already too late. BIo weapons- also need delivery systems- same problem

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]And there IS evidence Iran had something to do with that war. Iran helps HizbAllah directly with manpower and equipment on the ground.

Official sources pls.

I remember a display of iranian weapons captured by IDF forces, but it turned out the weapons were russian but not iranian.

Quote[/b] ] Israel's response, no matter how you argue for it, against or for, was a neccesary lesson to Lebanon that they can't pull this shit with no consequences like they hope they can with the help of the U.N and the other tools in the West.

Great response. Use cluster bombs on civillians, attack Red Cross, attack refugee convois, do not fulfill your mission objectives and pull out without having freed the soldiers in question.

Sounds like a solid G.W. Mission accomplished to me.

The only thing the war achieved is a massive support for Hesbollah among the citizens today.

Quote[/b] ]And lastly, how is attacking a foreign country by killing several of its citizens and abducting is NOT an act of war?

If the abduction took place within the country of Lebanon it somehow reverts your argumentation:

AFP:

Quote[/b] ]"According to the Lebanese police force, the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aitaa al-Chaab, near to the border with Israel, where an Israeli unit had penetrated in middle of morning."

www.VoltaireNet.org

Quote[/b] ]

"In a deliberated way, [israel] sent a commando in the Lebanese back-country to Aitaa al-Chaab. It was attacked by Hezbollah, taking two prisoners."

AP

Quote[/b] ]"The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them,"

Hindustan Times

Quote[/b] ]"The Lebanese Shi'ite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. 'Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon,' a statement by Hezbollah said. 'The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place,' it added. The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they 'infiltrated' into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border."

The official israeli version contradicts all these reports.

[Bernadotte 0]

The Palestinian and other local death cults...

Death Cults?  Isn't it their Birth Cults that you are supposed to be worried about?  After all, the average Palestinian has about 3 or 4 times as many kids as the average Israeli.  Isn't a majority non-Jewish Israel really just a few years away?  I'd have thought you'd be encouraging their Death Cults rather than complaining about them.

Besides, I can't see how their "Death Cults" can be very successful with birth statistics like that.

[Nemesis6 0]

Quote[/b] ]And there IS evidence Iran had something to do with that war. Iran helps HizbAllah directly with manpower and equipment on the ground.

Official sources pls.

I remember a display of iranian weapons captured by IDF forces, but it turned out the weapons were russian but not iranian.

Quote[/b] ] Israel's response, no matter how you argue for it, against or for, was a neccesary lesson to Lebanon that they can't pull this shit with no consequences like they hope they can with the help of the U.N and the other tools in the West.

Great response. Use cluster bombs on civillians, attack Red Cross, attack refugee convois, do not fulfill your mission objectives and pull out without having freed the soldiers in question.

Sounds like a solid G.W. Mission accomplished to me.

The only thing the war achieved is a massive support for Hesbollah among the citizens today.

Quote[/b] ]And lastly, how is attacking a foreign country by killing several of its citizens and abducting is NOT an act of war?

If the abduction took place within the country of Lebanon it somehow reverts your argumentation:

AFP:

Quote[/b] ]"According to the Lebanese police force, the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aitaa al-Chaab, near to the border with Israel, where an Israeli unit had penetrated in middle of morning."

www.VoltaireNet.org

Quote[/b] ]

"In a deliberated way, [israel] sent a commando in the Lebanese back-country to Aitaa al-Chaab. It was attacked by Hezbollah, taking two prisoners."

AP

Quote[/b] ]"The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them,"

Hindustan Times

Quote[/b] ]"The Lebanese Shi'ite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. 'Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon,' a statement by Hezbollah said. 'The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place,' it added. The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they 'infiltrated' into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border."

The official israeli version contradicts all these reports.

Those weapons you're referring to were Russian weapons given to the Syrian Defence Ministry. Now we've involved another player.

About Iran: During the war and/or before the war, Iran actually had an Iranian Revolutionary Guard regiment of about 100 men in Lebanon aiding HizbAllah, training them how to use the Iranian donated equipment.

I knew you were gonna question the methods... Israel had to withdraw because of international pressure. You think they would have stopped if the U.N and all the other whiners had sat in silence? Cluster bombs on civilians... The interesting detail here is that you seem to imply that Israel finds a group of civilians, bombs the shit out of them, and laughs maniacally afterwards. Civilians die in wars, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE USED AS HUMAN SHIELDS BY THE ENEMY!

Ooooohh yes, the ambulence that was attacked. How about reading this about this tiny incident - http://www.zombietime.com/fraud/ambulance/

To sum up, the Red Cross intentionally removed a high resolution picture showing the true extent of the damage.

Does this look like a something that has been "blasted with rockets"?

But I'm sure you're not interested in learning that this was indeed a hoax, so I'll leave it at that.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Those weapons you're referring to were Russian weapons given to the Syrian Defence Ministry.

Again, source pls.

Quote[/b] ]During the war and/or before the war, Iran actually had an Iranian Revolutionary Guard regiment of about 100 men in Lebanon aiding HizbAllah, training them how to use the Iranian donated equipment.

The same, source pls.

Quote[/b] ]Israel had to withdraw because of international pressure. You think they would have stopped if the U.N and all the other whiners had sat in silence?

Blabla.

Maybe check the internal israeli opposition to the war when number of dead israelis rose daily without noticeable achievements on the ground ?

Quote[/b] ]Cluster bombs on civilians... The interesting detail here is that you seem to imply that Israel finds a group of civilians, bombs the shit out of them, and laughs maniacally afterwards.

You don´t know much about the nature of cluster ammunition and incendiary ammunition, right ?

Maybe that´s why there is an israeli investigation on it ?

Quote[/b] ]Civilians die in wars, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE USED AS HUMAN SHIELDS BY THE ENEMY!

Even using capitals doesn´t make it true. There are numerous reports that there was no hesbollah presence in districts bombed. It was collective punishment and the investigations are all pointing into the same direction now, except of course the IDF ones.

By your logic the bombing of UN person was justified aswell ? I´m curious on your version, oh wait, no I´m not.

I will collect some reliable source if I have time today, but it´s still a waste of time as you are so fanatic that you´ve lost your objectivity long ago.

Edit:

Oh, almost forgot:

What about your claim again that the soldiers were kidnapped on israeli soil ? In fact israeli forces have violated Lebanon territorial boundaries and got caught. Speeking of self-defence in that context is a joke.

[Nemesis6 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Those weapons you're referring to were Russian weapons given to the Syrian Defence Ministry.

Again, source pls.

Quote[/b] ]During the war and/or before the war, Iran actually had an Iranian Revolutionary Guard regiment of about 100 men in Lebanon aiding HizbAllah, training them how to use the Iranian donated equipment.

The same, source pls.

Quote[/b] ]Israel had to withdraw because of international pressure. You think they would have stopped if the U.N and all the other whiners had sat in silence?

Blabla.

Maybe check the internal israeli opposition to the war when number of dead israelis rose daily without noticeable achievements on the ground ?

Quote[/b] ]Cluster bombs on civilians... The interesting detail here is that you seem to imply that Israel finds a group of civilians, bombs the shit out of them, and laughs maniacally afterwards.

You don´t know much about the nature of cluster ammunition and incendiary ammunition, right ?

Maybe that´s why there is an israeli investigation on it ?

Quote[/b] ]Civilians die in wars, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE USED AS HUMAN SHIELDS BY THE ENEMY!

Even using capitals doesn´t make it true. There are numerous reports that there was no hesbollah presence in districts bombed. It was collective punishment and the investigations are all pointing into the same direction now, except of course the IDF ones.

By your logic the bombing of UN person was justified aswell ? I´m curious on your version, oh wait, no I´m not.

I will collect some reliable source if I have time today, but it´s still a waste of time as you are so fanatic that you´ve lost your objectivity long ago.

Edit:

Oh, almost forgot:

What about your claim again that the soldiers were kidnapped on israeli soil ? In fact israeli forces have violated Lebanon territorial boundaries and got caught. Speeking of self-defence in that context is a joke.

Here's one among many - http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/08/15/syriaarmhezbollah.shtml

Next one - Iranian soldiers in Lebanon. Take your pick. http://www.google.com/search?....g&meta=

Google is your friend if you actually have the will to use it.

Next - How about the fact that HizbAllah were using the U.N outpost as a launch site? Oh wait, I forgot, you don't care. Dumbass. See? I can be rude, too.

Ah yes, numerous evidence. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that the majority of civilians killed in the crisis were being used by HizbAllah as human shields, willingly or not. Don't make me bring out that one example where HizbAllah forcibly prevented civilians from leaving the area Qassam rockets were fired from.

Me? Lost my objectivity? I try as much to back up my statements with facts, like the ambulance incident you brung up. And speaking of objectivity, you blindly follow one side of the story, with neither having been proven(as far as I know).

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Next - How about the fact that HizbAllah were using the U.N outpost as a launch site?

SOURCE !

Quote[/b] ]Dumbass. See? I can be rude, too.

Reported.

Quote[/b] ]Ah yes, numerous evidence. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that the majority of civilians killed in the crisis were being used by HizbAllah as human shields, willingly or not.

If there are NUMEROUS evidence, than POST them !

If you can´t come up with evidence than don´t post your assumptions as universal truth.

Quote[/b] ] I try as much to back up my statements with facts,

The opposite is the case. You hardly ever post solid sources other than just citing blogs, quoting pro-jew sites and getting lost in your deathcult visions.

Again:

Oh, almost forgot:

What about your claim again that the soldiers were kidnapped on israeli soil ? In fact israeli forces have violated Lebanon territorial boundaries and got caught. Speeking of self-defence in that context is a joke.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Dumbass. See? I can be rude, too.

Flaming = 1WL added = Ban.

[Bernadotte 0]

Dumbass. See? I can be rude, too.

Flaming = 1WL added = Ban.

Ahhh poop!!!  

...you smell like butt!

The only reason I didn't report stuff like this was that the dude was already just one off being booted for good.  You see, his various posts in this thread have done a great deal to demonstrate the nature of the injustices Palestinians have had to live with for nearly a century.  With Nemesis around, there was never any need for me to post about pro-Israel fanatics who actually believe things like Palestinians having volunteered to be refugees.  We could all simply read it for ourselves, straight from the horse's mouth.

I do understand the banning, but I'm really sorry to see him go.  

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ] I try as much to back up my statements with facts,

The opposite is the case. You hardly ever post solid sources other than just citing blogs, quoting pro-jew sites and getting lost in your deathcult visions.

You forgot that, when his sources are proven to be total bull, he likes to claim that this only makes his point stronger...like the Hizbollah flag next to the UN outpost

Quote[/b] ]The only reason I didn't report stuff like this was that the dude was already just one off being booted for good. You see, his various posts in this thread have done a great deal to demonstrate the nature of the injustices Palestinians have had to live with for nearly a century. With Nemesis around, there was never any need for me to post about pro-Israel fanatics who actually believe things like Palestinians having volunteered to be refugees. We could all simply read it for ourselves, straight from the horse's mouth.

[scary 0]

You're comparing the Army Cadet Force to Hamas summercamps where children learn to kill Jews and hate America?

Your previous assertion was that Hamas is a death cult because they teach children to shoot. You moving the goalposts was predictable but pointless. When was it you attended one of these camps to discover this information?

About training camps- You forgot to mention that in the U.K they are not brainwashed to explode in buses and discotecs. Or to kidnap soldier without provocation. An Hamas is a death cult beacuse it worships death. Their herous are suicide bombers, as long as you die and kill Israeli's, dosen't matter how you lived.

The ACF are taught to defeat any potential enemy by whatever means are at their disposal and that there is no greater honour than to die trying. Palestinian children do not need to be brainwashed to consider Israelis a potential threat and enemy. Israelis are a threat to Palestinians and some of them may be willing to oppose that threat by whatever means are at their disposal.

Every nation revers its war dead. Why is it so repulsive when Palestinians do the same?

You're either A: A socialist/marxist/RESPECT voter, or someone pretty oblivious to what happens there.

Could you possibly show what bearing a persons economic stance, whether right, left or centrist has on this. Preferably without linking to any wing-nut blogs.

Quote[/b] ]And there IS evidence Iran had something to do with that war. Iran helps HizbAllah directly with manpower and equipment on the ground. Just like Syria. We aren't aren't talking shady deals that one has to suspect is happening, there's physical evidence.

So much evidence that you can never show any.

Quote[/b] ]And lastly, how is attacking a foreign country by killing several of its citizens and abducting is NOT an act of war? Israel's response, no matter how you argue for it, against or for, was a neccesary lesson to Lebanon that they can't pull this shit with no consequences like they hope they can with the help of the U.N and the other tools in the West.

Nice loading of the question there. It's about time you learnt that most people here are not stupid enough to fall for it. The kidnapping was not an attack on the country.

When an Israeli kidnaps or kills an Israeli is it an attack on Israel?

Your last sentence make no sense - whether you agree with it or not, you've got to agree with it??? And Lebanon didn't pull anything.

Quote[/b] ]The Palestinian and other local death cults need to learn that actions have consequences. That lesson has to be taught by the Israelis because their native governments love all who kill Jews.

Israelis would be better off teaching that to their own population first.

Hizzballa- If Hizzballa kidnaping our soldiers isn't an act of war, than us kidnapping a Syrian woulden't be so bad would it? You get my point...

Israel kidnaps foreign nationals on a regular basis. Are you saying that Israel regularly commits acts of war?

Quote[/b] ]Iran- It has freinds they are called: Russia,China, Venezuella, North-Korea and anybody else with an anti-Israeli/ Anti-US interests. The enemy of my enemy is my freind. And the simplest evidence for Iran developing nuklear weapons, is that it seriosly wants to destroy Israel while sharing no borders. A nuclear weapon is their only means of achiving it. Hizzballah isn't up for something like that. Here's also evidence of Israel being a prime target, just listen to Ahmidineg'ad. (Iran's President)

Those countries are not friends of Iran, they are trading partners. The cold war is over, by the way - enemy of my enemy, indeed. The only one of those that is anyone's enemy is NK.

Iran has made no indications of it wanting to destroy Israel - and don't bother quoting any of MEMRI's deliberate, out of context mis-translations to show that they have, someone will make you look rather silly. Perhaps you could remind everyone of the last time Iran attacked another country?

Unlike you, I have listened to Ahmadinejad, to what he actually says and not the MEMRI translations you are clearly using. It is mostly just political waffle, and no threats. If the rest of the world hadn't been vilifying Iran, he would never have been voted into power, anyway.

Quote[/b] ]About the delivery systems- A good pilot can avoid AA defences, and we have good pilots. About the subs, there were publications of Israeli launch tests somewhere near Sri-lanka. But even if the Germans know about it, it doesn't mean they"ll want to say that they know. Israeli sub orders keep their industry alive, instead of being 100% dependant on the US. About land-based missiles: Easy to target? Maybe, but once they are launched it's already too late. BIo weapons- also need delivery systems- same problem

Israel has average pilots that never have to do anything difficult. No matter how good a pilot is there is no weaving in and out of the AAA and banking at the last moment while the missile crashes into the side of a mountain. Hollywood is a poor source for information. An Israeli pilot was shot down by Israeli air defence when he strayed too close to Dimona, you know.

No doubt Israel has test launched its submarines' missiles, but that does mean they had a nuclear warhead on the pointy end. Precisely how did you come to the conclusion that three submarines keep the German ship building industry alive? Don't forget to include in your calculation Germany donating the first two for free and paying for half of the third. Where would ThyssenKrupps 184,000 employees be without Israel? I'm quite sure there are other navies than the US and Israeli using German boats. Germany's springs immediately to mind. I find facts much better than wild speculation, myself.

The land based missiles would be taken out before they got anywhere near the launch stage. Oddly enough, I think most militaries would be able to figure that one out quite easily. Before destroying the Jericho launch pads they could have a pop at nearby Tel Nof on the way, thus taking out the planes as well.

Bio and chemical weapons are much easier to deploy than nuclear.

Me? Lost my objectivity? I try as much to back up my statements with facts, like the ambulance incident you brung up. And speaking of objectivity, you blindly follow one side of the story, with neither having been proven(as far as I know).

I think you'll find you come to a conclusion first - usually involving the words 'Israel, only defending, death cult, Holocaust, anti-Semitic', with a smattering of capitalisation and exclamation marks - then try to find as many websites as possible that support that position, no matter how spurious they are. When people then post genuine evidence that contradicts your position, emotional outbursts ensue, followed by some foot-stamping, then you hide until the next issue comes along and the cycle starts again.

[EiZei 0]

Is it just me or isnt drafting a huge reply to a guy who just got banned kicking somebody who is already on the ground?

[scary 0]

Is it just me or isnt drafting a huge reply to a guy who just got banned kicking somebody who is already on the ground?

It could be interpreted that way, but I started the reply before he got banned*. Besides, it wasn't just to him

*yes I do realise how much time has elapsed since then but I was responding in very short bursts as a distraction while building my boat. Steaming timber two pieces at a time is fecking dull.

[Garcia 0]

Is it just me or isnt drafting a huge reply to a guy who just got banned kicking somebody who is already on the ground?

It's not really kicking somebody who is already on the ground as the person probably won't ever know about the reply

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Scary replying to your post:

About the delivery systems- A good pilot can avoid AA defences, and we have good pilots. About the subs, there were publications of Israeli launch tests somewhere near Sri-lanka. But even if the Germans know about it, it doesn't mean they"ll want to say that they know. Israeli sub orders keep their industry alive, instead of being 100% dependant on the US. About land-based missiles: Easy to target? Maybe, but once they are launched it's already too late. BIo weapons- also need delivery systems- same problem

the so called 'pre-emtive' strike.  Israel has gotten rather good at them and prouds itslelf on there pilots skill at carrying out low level bombing raids.  what Israel is blind too is how pissed off the rest of the world gets when a diplomatic solution is not completly of the table before there carried out.

[Baff2 0]

I prefer that they have to trust in my good nature, than I have to trust in theirs.

Well, we don't exactly see them discussing how to destroy your bunkers, do we?  

They discuss how to shoot down my planes, roadside bomb my troops in Iraq and close down the marine traffic in the Gulf regularly.

Do they discuss how to blow up my bunkers? Maybe.

As nations go, we aren't the greatest of friends and we do have a few bunkers of our own around the region.

[Baff2 0]

There is no evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, it is just a red herring created by the US in order to protect the mighty dollar, just like the war in Iraq. But that is for a whole other post.

While that is perfectly possible, it is in my best intrests for them not to have the capablility in the first place.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if they screw one together or not. It's the the ability to make one we seek to deny.

Realistically, it's possible to hunt down and destroy a few reactors now on the off chance, but not possible very to hunt down and destroy a single portable warhead, should they ever make one.

Prevention is better than cure, so to speak and innocent till proven guilty isn't an honour priviliaged on rival militaries. It is beholden on us to plan for the worst possible outcome and take all necessary steps to prevent it.

For the record, I own quite a lot of those mighty dollars. Britain is the largest foreign investor in the U.S. Anything that is bad for the U.S. dollar is bad for Britain and bad for me. I have a common intrest with America in protecting it.

[Lateflip 0]

Every country has the right to defend themselves.

But how do you defend yourself from a nuke?

And what happens when you invade another country claiming one is just defending himself?

These are hard questions to answer. Many nations found the answer to defend themselves from nukes is getting more nukes themselves, and lately, many dictators answered that question similary. That raises another question, does undemocratic nations like Iran have the right to defend themselves?

And is it right to pump money into one unstable country because you want them to fight a war against another unstable country?

These are hard questions to answer.

[EiZei 0]

But how do you defend yourself from a nuke?

Uhh.. you drop it either on the invading army or the invader's biggest cities?

[Lateflip 0]

But how do you defend yourself from a nuke?

Uhh.. you drop it either on the invading army or the invader's biggest cities?

You drop what on the invading army or the invader's biggest cities? I asked how you defend yourself from a nuke, not how you use one.

And im not talking abt shooting down one, im wondering what weapon that can match a nuke.