The Middle East part 2

[Nemesis6 0]

See, this is a common phenomenon - A terrorist group breaks a "cease fire", also known as a "hudna" with Israel, and it is totally ignored. But when Israel responds, Israel is the one ruining the truce.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

so you seroisly expected HBA just to pack up and go?  the lebonease army is moving to the south so they playing there role in the cease fire.  But now israel has compromised the hole international peace keeping force, which is going there in Israels interests, not HBA's.  Thats why more is noted about Israel breaking the treaty. Why would countries agree to go and peacekeep when Israel might just bomb HBA and cause more trouble, making there troops there vunerable.

[Stealth3 0]

Quote[/b] ]Stupid. They stopped Syria from rearming HizbAllah, and they are not "saw loosers [sic]". HizbAllah broke the truce before the Israelis.

Nemesis, your government is composed of a bunch of losers and liars. First of all, they didn't stop jack shit. They were ambushed and as always retreated and declared success. They ended up blowing a bridge, but they never got to no weapon's trucks.

What did they accomplish? Nothing

And Its all a lie, we all know that the IDF would rather bomb the truck than have a commando raid. Rumors is they wanted to capture some senior Hezbolah, but of course the IDF denies.

Btw, so far about 4 planes from Iran were order to land in Turkey for inspection. Guess what, none had weapons.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

and why have Israel arrested the deputy prime minister of palastine? Its basicly holding him hostage for no good rason

[mp_phonix 0]

and why have Israel arrested the deputy prime minister of palastine? Its basicly holding him hostage for no good rason

1.) Membership in a Terrorist Organization

2.) Will be good for prisoners exchange in the return of Gilad Shalit, and a good levrage to make the terrorist release him

[Garcia 0]

and why have Israel arrested the deputy prime minister of palastine? Its basicly holding him hostage for no good rason

1.) Membership in a Terrorist Organization

2.) Will be good for prisoners exchange in the return of Gilad Shalit, and a good levrage to make the terrorist release him

1.) Even though a person is member in a organization which has one part of it performing terrorist acts doesn't mean every single one who is member in the organization can be blamed. If so, every single person in a nation can be blamed for the nation killing people, and therefor I might be able to blame about 1000 lebaneses death on you...

2.) In other words, Israel have taken a hostage...and using him to blackmail...

[j w 0]

Israel are the terrorists

(cor.)

[mp_phonix 0]

Garcia - Such a naive & lame reply.I mean, really, you can do better.

Quote[/b] ]

1.) Even though a person is member in a organization which has one part of it performing terrorist acts doesn't mean every single one who is member in the organization can be blamed

hmm . .It's either you a memmber of a terrorist organization or just Naive. Let's see you say the same thing about Al-Quaida...

[j w 0]

You say that Garcia's comment is lame and naive, and you doesn't even comment mine?

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Garcia - Such a naive & lame reply.I mean, really, you can do better.

Quote[/b] ]

1.) Even though a person is member in a organization which has one part of it performing terrorist acts doesn't mean every single one who is member in the organization can be blamed

hmm . .It's either you a memmber of a terrorist organization or just Naive. Let's see you say the same thing about Al-Quaida...

oh, here we go, just becuase you dont side with Israel your somhow a terrorist. I think that really shows us who is Naive

[Bernadotte 0]

   

Actually the one who broke it were Hizb-Allah & Lebanopn Goverment by allowing Hizballaha to remain armed in South LEbanon, against the Cease Fire terms

Oh Really?  Have you even read the cease fire terms?

If so then please tell us what the deadline is for disarming Hezbollah.

If not then...    

Why did Israel waste a whole month trying to kill Hezbollah if you honestly believe that disarming them should only take 6 days?

and why have Israel arrested the deputy prime minister of palastine? Its basicly holding him hostage for no good rason

1.) Membership in a Terrorist Organization

2.) Will be good for prisoners exchange in the return of Gilad Shalit, and a good levrage to make the terrorist release him

Abducting people and detaining them indefinitely without charging them is not arresting.  It's kidnapping.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Quote[/b] ]Israel expects the deployment of the Lebanese army in the south of the country to take place within a week or two, said cabinet secretary Yisrael Maimon on Sunday.

that comes from haaretz , an israeli news broadcaster of some sort i think??  so stop complaing that the lebonease army arnt there yet, they got another week to get there.  Plus already deploying.

[martinovic 0]

Quote[/b] ]2.) Will be good for prisoners exchange in the return of Gilad Shalit, and a good levrage to make the terrorist release him

Who is being a terrorist now?

I don't know why israel started digging this huge public relations grave for itself. It's a shame Sharon is out of office, he was really starting to see reason.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Quote[/b] ]2.) Will be good for prisoners exchange in the return of Gilad Shalit, and a good levrage to make the terrorist release him

Who is being a terrorist now?

I don't know why israel started digging this huge public relations grave for itself. It's a shame Sharon is out of office, he was really starting to see reason.

absolutly, sacrificing his popularity with the israeli people for the common good.

[Garcia 0]

Garcia - Such a naive & lame reply.I mean, really, you can do better.

Quote[/b] ]

1.) Even though a person is member in a organization which has one part of it performing terrorist acts doesn't mean every single one who is member in the organization can be blamed

hmm . .It's either you a memmber of a terrorist organization or just Naive. Let's see you say the same thing about Al-Quaida...

Indeed. I'm a member of Hizbollah, Al- Quaida, Hamas...you name it...

YOU are the naive one if you think being a member of a organization that does many things, one being terrorism, makes you a terrorist. Since you seem to be naive, let's give it to you so you may understand.

You got organization A, it is made up by many branches. Lets say this organization A is built up like this:

You got the leaders at the top, lets call them group A. Under group A, you got say 4 branches. Under each of these 4 you got another 4, etc etc. You may end up with something like this:

          -------------------Group A.---------------

          /                  |                |                \

          B                     C                D                E

/     |     |     \      /   |    |    \    /   |    |   \    /   |    |    \

F    G     H     I     J   K     L    M  N   O    P   Q  R   S    T    U

Now, lets say group F and group G performs terrorist attacks. Is the guy in group U who takes care of homeless children, feeds them, gives them a roof etc, is he guilty in terrorism? Can Israel "arrest" him, even though he is in a branch of a organization which does good, just because another branch in the same organization performs terrorist attacks? If you honestly says he can, you are so naive and plain stupid that it's a shame to human kind

And through experience I know that you might have problems seeing the point, so I'll give it to you as clear as possible.

1: I don't claim the person who was "arrested" by Israel is innocent.

2: I don't claim the organization he is part of is built up like the example here.

What I'm saying is that your "argument" that any given person who is member of a organization, which have a branch which performs terrorist acts, can be arrested because he is a member of that organization. As long as the person IS NOT involved in any act of terrorism, he has done nothing wrong. Therefor, claiming like you do, that "membership" in a organization that performs terrorism is a valid reason for "arresting" people is wrong, even though they are part of the organization. It's blaming them for something just because they're part of a organization. Therefor it's the same as if I were to blame you for killing lebanese civilians. You may not have done it, you may not support it, but you are a "member" (in your case, citizen) of the "organization" (in your case, nation) that performed the act of killing lebanese civilians, therefor you can, following your logic, be blamed for it.

[mp_phonix 0]

pphh sure Garcia is an CT expert.

The only reason why we don't have planes crashing into sky-crapers and planes crashing into the Kneset is only becuase our attitude which is :

Tighthened security, strict regulations, intensive CT operations [like those "kidhpahing" as you call them, Bombing them before they bomb as and destrying their homes.]

And you know what ? It Works !

Guess what ? while we -were- in lebanon before our retreat in 2000, the only weapon Hizballah had is small arms, RPG's maybe some mortars and some katyushas.thats it.

Well we left . .What did they aquaier doring those 6 years were we didn't have control on the border passes ? well . .Lets see:

They managed to aquaier::

ATGM,AT,You name it : AT4 "Fagot", TOW misselse, RPG 29, over 10000 shortrange katyuashas, Advance light weaponry [sniper rifels - SVD's,VN-94,variouse DMS], advance assualt rifels & machine guns [sAWs,MAGs etc.] --->> They didn't have it while we were in Lebanon. You know what else they did ? Build a vast tunnel networks, also managed to get advanced elctronics system for their bunkers near the border, And actually got some UAV's from Iran !

And guess what ? That what happend in Gaza now - WE have no control, they are starting to build tunnels, getting new weapons which are smuggeld through Egypt [see the "Grad" rocket fell in my city last week -> they didn't have them before we left Gaza].

That's the only way to fight terrorism.Strict rules

, Roadblocks, Corfues & intensive CT operations.Thats why as I said before we don;t have "major" bombings, like what happend in london and 9/11. See the mighty USA & Coalition in Iraq. Why they are blowen to pices ? because they can't control the the arms flow into the country {those new ATGM,RPGs, ETC.]

[Bernadotte 0]

The only reason why we don't have planes crashing into sky-crapers and planes crashing into the Kneset is only becuase our attitude...

I think you'll find that your attitude also explains why there are people who want to crash planes into the Kneset in the first place.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

The only reason why we don't have planes crashing into sky-crapers and planes crashing into the Kneset is only becuase our attitude which is :

ummm no, its becuase of airport security.  The chances of catching bombers at airports is far higher than catching him before he steps anywhere near it.  So in that way it acts as a deterent, hence trains being the new target which most countires dont seem to be worrying about.  (what with india,london,madrid and now the foiled german threat)

Quote[/b] ]They managed to aquaier::

ATGM,AT,You name it : AT4 "Fagot", TOW misselse, RPG 29, over 10000 shortrange katyuashas, Advance light weaponry [sniper rifels - SVD's,VN-94,variouse DMS], advance assualt rifels & machine guns [sAWs,MAGs etc.] --->> They didn't have it while we were in Lebanon. You know what else they did ? Build a vast tunnel networks, also managed to get advanced elctronics system for their bunkers near the border, And actually got some UAV's from Iran !

but they could argue that Israel aquired bombs of the USA, some of which were illegal (cluster bombs).

[scary 0]

Those were the main (and legit) reasons, you got other, minor (more stupid) reasons too...like one that I've seen many jews use when interviewed on telly (to defend the existance of Israel)...God gave them that land, and they were there 3000 years ago, long before those who is there now...  Honestly, those people don't really strenghten Israels right to exist when they point towards a book that nobody can prove is true...

The reasons many Jews use are fairly irrelevant as they didn't create Israel

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Well, 8 million Northern Europeans were killed in the Christian conversion so I claim Iceland, Norway and Milton Keynes in the name of the Heathen state of New Teutonia.

That means you're claiming my country

Well, I've changed my mind about the state... it's a Kingdom instead. It'll be good, a Kingdom for the people of the old Northern European religion. Anyone that can prove their Heathen roots can claim Teutonian citizenship. Non-Heathens - those of Middle Eastern religions like Christianity, for example - already living in it will be fine, they just won't be Teutonians so will have access to a few less things and, for security reasons, may be 'monitored'. They'll be similar to non-Jews in Israel, so it won't be an apartheid, honest Some settlements will have to be built in the rest of Scandinavia, England, Frisia, etc. it's not a land-grab, it's security. Obviously, the TDF will have to be sent in to protect them and put down any resistance, sorry, I mean terrorists. At least once a week every Teutonian will be able to smite an enemy, there's nothing like a good smiting, it'll be fun.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]About my saying "terrorist sympathiser", I would probably write it with a Z instead of an S in the end.

And if your going to spell everything correct[...]

I spelt 'sympathiser' correctly. The language is called English, not American. I used the correct English spelling, the same spelling the majority of the English speaking world uses. If Americans wish to spread their spellings around the world perhaps they could begin by creating their own language to do it with. Colour, colour, colour  

pphh sure Garcia is an CT expert.

Umm, I don't know if you've noticed but you are, in fact, a school-child. You're not Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller. Then again, the way the IDF hands ranks out like lollipops, you'll probably be a General before you've cut all your teeth.

Quote[/b] ]The only reason why we don't have planes crashing into sky-crapers and planes crashing into the Kneset is only becuase our attitude which is :

Or it may be that Israel is nothing on the world stage. How many World Trade Centers or buildings of similar standing are there in Israel?

Quote[/b] ]Tighthened security, strict regulations, intensive CT operations [like those "kidhpahing" as you call them, Bombing them before they bomb as and destrying their homes.]

Have you ever considered that these are the reasons that terrorism exists in Israel? Even people with dark skin don't like being treated like vermin.

Quote[/b] ]And you know what ? It Works !

I'll remember that next time you're wailing about all the terrorists - which, incidentally appears to be anyone that disagrees with anything Israel does.

Quote[/b] ]Guess what ? while we -were- in lebanon before our retreat in 2000, the only weapon Hizballah had is small arms, RPG's maybe some mortars and some katyushas.thats it.

Well we left . .

What did they aquaier doring those 6 years were we didn't have control on the border passes ?

What do you think gives you the right to have control over someone else's borders? Perhaps if Israel paid more attention to its own borders and less to other people's a few less people would hate it.

Quote[/b] ]well . .Lets see:

They managed to aquaier::

ATGM,AT,You name it : AT4 "Fagot", TOW misselse, RPG 29, over 10000 shortrange katyuashas, Advance light weaponry [sniper rifels - SVD's,VN-94,variouse DMS], advance assualt rifels & machine guns [sAWs,MAGs etc.] --->> They didn't have it while we were in Lebanon. You know what else they did ? Build a vast tunnel networks, also managed to get advanced elctronics system for their bunkers near the border, And actually got some UAV's from Iran !

Well good for them. And in the mean time, Israel continued getting hand-outs from the US. Isn't it about time Israel let go of Uncle Sam's hand and started taking care of itself?

Quote[/b] ]And guess what ? That what happend in Gaza now - WE have no control, they are starting to build tunnels, getting new weapons which are smuggeld through Egypt [see the "Grad" rocket fell in my city last week -> they didn't have them before we left Gaza].

Again, see the bit about paying more attention to your own borders. Why should you have control? It's not your country.

Quote[/b] ]That's the only way to fight terrorism.Strict rules

, Roadblocks, Corfues & intensive CT operations.

No, that is how to occupy and oppress.

Israel has never managed to stop terrorism, other countries have and didn't follow those ideas.

Quote[/b] ]Thats why as I said before we don;t have "major" bombings, like what happend in london and 9/11.

You don't have "major" bombings because Israel is insignificant on the world stage. The US and the UK are important nations on the world stage so are prime targets. Wanking about in Gaza will not stop a plane from being hijacked and flown into a building in Israel, nor will it stop an Israeli from making a bomb out of household chemicals and detonating it on public transport, it does, however, make many Gazans want to do things like that.

Quote[/b] ]See the mighty USA & Coalition in Iraq. Why they are blowen to pices ? because they can't control the the arms flow into the country {those new ATGM,RPGs, ETC.]

Do you have the first clue about war and can you actually tell the difference between terrorism and insurgency or are you under the impression that every country follows the Israeli idea of refering to every enemy as terrorists? What, precisely, needs to be seen about 'the mighty USA & Coalition in Iraq'? When Israel has got around to fighting a large-scale war or a war away from its borders perhaps you'll be in a position to provide advice on how these things are done, but as the IDF couldn't mount an invasion of Malta you may wish to leave it out.

What are you waffling about 'blown to pieces' - I've seen higher casualty rates on a skiing holiday. In war people are killed, outside of Israel people understand that. I don't see the current KiA having any affect on the fighting ability of the coalition nations, they're hardly devastating losses.

As the coalition aren't there to occupy, subjugate and humiliate and wish to be out of there at the earliest opportunity it would not be a good idea to start camping along the borders. To follow your solution though would also require invading Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey and Iran. Of course, then arms flow into those countries would need to be stopped...

I think we'll pass on your strategy.

[Stealth3 0]

Quote[/b] ]To follow your solution though would also require invading Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey and Iran. Of course, then arms flow into those countries would need to be stopped...

Yeah, Russia will be accused of giving weapons to states that give weapons to "terrorists".

Oh, have you guys read the article stating that Israel started to complain to Britain because they found British nightvisions in Hebollah hideouts? All they do is complain......

http://news.yahoo.com/s....goggles

I bet they will call the British company "supporter of terrorists" lol pathetic

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

in iraq and afganistan the US and UK (and other countries, such as Canada and Poland whos brave soldiers are often forgoten) are not fighting terrorists.  There fighting insurgents and militia who are trained and as deadly as any proffessional army.  There cunning, brave and smart, there not the turban wearing blow up a bus people your making them out to be.  Before we can beat them we need to respect them as an enemy and develop new tactics to cope with evolving warfare.  America seems unable to do this since it cant use napalm and agent orange anymore like it did in nam' when faced with a similarly determined insurgency.  oo theres a good comparison, do you call the vietcong terorrists?

Quote[/b] ]Oh, have you guys read the article stating that Israel started to complain to Britain because they found British nightvisions in Hebollah hideouts?  All they do is complain......

how dare they complain when they used britian as an stop of point for illegal weapons that killed hundreds of inocent civilians.

ill share with peopel somthing though. Its good too see the next generation of Israelis are open minded and conciderate to other religion and there arab neighbors. These pictures show Israeli children sending presents to Lebanese children

[Garcia 0]

pphh sure Garcia is an CT expert.

The only reason why we don't have planes crashing into sky-crapers and planes crashing into the Kneset is only becuase our attitude which is :

Tighthened security, strict regulations, intensive CT operations [like those "kidhpahing" as you call them, Bombing them before they bomb as and destrying their homes.]

And you know what ? It Works !

Guess what ? while we -were- in lebanon before our retreat in 2000, the only weapon Hizballah had is small arms, RPG's maybe some mortars and some katyushas.thats it.

Well we left . .What did they aquaier doring those 6 years were we didn't have control on the border passes ? well . .Lets see:

They managed to aquaier::

ATGM,AT,You name it : AT4 "Fagot", TOW misselse, RPG 29, over 10000 shortrange katyuashas, Advance light weaponry [sniper rifels - SVD's,VN-94,variouse DMS], advance assualt rifels & machine guns [sAWs,MAGs etc.] --->> They didn't have it while we were in Lebanon. You know what else they did ? Build a vast tunnel networks, also managed to get advanced elctronics system for their bunkers near the border, And actually got some UAV's from Iran !

And guess what ? That what happend in Gaza now - WE have no control, they are starting to build tunnels, getting new weapons which are smuggeld through Egypt [see the "Grad" rocket fell in my city last week -> they didn't have them before we left Gaza].

That's the only way to fight terrorism.Strict rules

, Roadblocks, Corfues & intensive CT operations.Thats why as I said before we don;t have "major" bombings, like what happend in london and 9/11. See the mighty USA & Coalition in Iraq. Why they are blowen to pices ? because they can't control the the arms flow into the country {those new ATGM,RPGs, ETC.]

Christ...

Can you tell me where I claimed to be a CT expert in that post? All I tried to do was explain to you that you can not "arrest" everyone who is a member in a organization that performs terrorism, because the person in question may not have been involved in terrorism, and therefor that person have done nothing wrong...

And about your "Oh so shiny good CT tactics"...umm...yes, you wana know what? USA and UK could easily "defend" themself against all terrorism by just going around arresting everyone who is a muslim, and then label them as terrorists and put them in prison...something like USA is doing on Cuba, just in a larger scale.

You wana know what? A big problem in the middle east is some Israelis attitude, and you seem to be one of them. The attitude is basically like this: From Israels point of view, when "organizing" non-israeli into groups, you got 2 main group. 1: Good guys, 2: bad guys. Everyone speaking in favour of Israel goes in 1, everyone opposing Israel goes into 2. Then 2 got 2 sub-groups. Terrorists and anti-semites. If you oppose Israel verbally, you go into the anti-semite group, if you oppose Israel with violent acts, you go into the terrorist group. (note that in your case, the terrorist group is what you are doing. Thankfully you are not (yet) screaming anti-semite at everyone saying they disagree with Israel). And just to give examples of how you label about everyone opposing Israel as terrorists.

1: You refer to every lebanese shooting at Israel as terrorists, even though they are shooting at IDF forces INSIDE Lebanon.

2: At least once, you talked about Israelis being attacked/killed inside illegally occupied palestinian land. You refered to the ones palestinians who attacked the illegal occupants as terrorists.

The problem here, is that since you look at everyone as terrorists, you obviously don't see the difference when Israel arrests a terrorists for being a terrorist, or when Israel "arrest" a "terrorist" (in reality, a innocent guy/girl) for being a terrorist (even though he/she isn't).

And about me saying "kidnapping", I said "arresting", and I added the "", because, considering your arguments for "arresting" that person, it seemed more like taking a hostage...

Quote[/b] ]I spelt 'sympathiser' correctly. The language is called English, not American. I used the correct English spelling, the same spelling the majority of the English speaking world uses. If Americans wish to spread their spellings around the world perhaps they could begin by creating their own language to do it with. Colour, colour, colour

Wasn't me telling you how to spell sympathiser Was Nemesis...

Quote[/b] ]Well, I've changed my mind about the state... it's a Kingdom instead. It'll be good, a Kingdom for the people of the old Northern European religion. Anyone that can prove their Heathen roots can claim Teutonian citizenship.

Seeing that I am quite a heathen, that means I'll live goood How about having some settlements in Sweden? They got cheep booze, compared to here at least

[mp_phonix 0]

@scary

phh . .whatever.

[xawery 0]

Well formulated Phonix. That ought to shut him up.

Why do you even bother to make a post if you dismiss Scary's arguments by default?

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Well formulated Phonix. That ought to shut him up.  

Why do you even bother to make a post if you dismiss Scary's arguments by default?

well thats the problem , unwilling to listen or accept other peoples point of view, dismissing them as wrong and saying they mean nothing.  Sort of sums up israeli foregin policy really, unless it america of course.