The Middle East part 2

[Nemesis6 0]

Shebaa is Syrian territory. That's what the U.N says.

Quote[/b] ]The United Nations views the Shebaa Farms area as Syrian territory. Therefore, UN Security Council Resolution 425 - which concerns Lebanon - does not require Israel to withdraw from this area.

While Lebanon claims to be the owner of the Shebaa Farms area, the UN has encouraged the Lebanese and Syrians to negotiate between themselves as to who is the rightful owner. If Syria were to cede ownership of the area to Lebanon, then it is probable that Israel and the UN would then reconsider the status of the territory. In the meantime, the issue of the Shebaa Farms is used simply as an excuse for the Hezbollah to maintain itself as an armed force in the region.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

The IDF has also said that anyone driving a truck should not cover up the contents to avoid being targetted.

Excuse me, but what kind of "effing" method of operation is that? Just because someone is driving a covered truck Israel assumes it has rockets in it? I mean, taking into account the effect of the sun beating down on perishible goods that have to be sheltered from the sun (and heat if possible)... I mean... that just ain't normal... Go ahead and establish bridgeheads at the Syrian-Lebanese borders and post checkpoints, but just blowing up all kinds of covered trucks just because you think that it's carrying rockets... That's just...

Also, all and any mess in the middle east, but especially referring to Israel, as everybody knowledgeable in history could tell you, is the brit's fault (remember Lawrence of Arabia?), so erm... yeah... having the brits invade all of that area again... heck, I'D PAY TO SEE THAT HAPPEN!!!

[mattxr 9]

god i love this thred

The Israelis say they are fighting to end the control of Hezbollah over the lives of ordinary people on both sides of the border.

"We won't have a terrorist organisation deployed on our northern border and Hezbollah is the one that has destabilised the entire region,"

[Donnervogel 0]

Blair won't ask Israel to halt fire

Quote[/b] ]British Prime Minister Tony Blair rejected calls Wednesday for Israel to declare a unilateral cease-fire in the burgeoning Mideast conflict, insisting that Hizbullah must first free Israeli soldiers and stop firing rockets at the Jewish state.

Well Blair is right with this. And also with this (same article)

Quote[/b] ]Blair said it was important that Israel's military action be proportionate and that it do its best to minimize civilian casualties, but he clearly placed blame for the conflict on Hizbullah.

You see I don't dispute Israels right to fight against the Hezbollah militias that attacked them and to defend against rocket attacks and to try to get their soldiers back. I condemn their exaggerated reaction and bombardment of civilian infrastructure.

[Bernadotte 0]

Exactly, Donnervogel.  

Israel should defend itself by doing what the Lebanese military is unable or unwilling to do.  However, it's inconceivable that even the most capable and willing Lebanese military would have destroyed their own power stations and transport infrastructure to recover the kidnapped soldiers and end the rocket attacks.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Exactly, Donnervogel.

Israel should defend itself by doing what the Lebanese military is unable or unwilling to do. However, it's inconceivable that even the most capable and willing Lebanese military would have destroyed their own power stations and transport infrastructure to recover the kidnapped soldiers and end the rocket attacks.

Yeah, I agree with Donnervogel and Bernadotte... they're acting as if Lebanon was the Gaza strip, and not a foreign country... or worse...

[Nemesis6 0]

HizbAllah wants over 1000 prisoners released, and the main one they want back is a terrorist. Negotiation is out of the picture their demands are ridiculous and disproportionate, unlike Israel's response to this act of aggression by both the Lebanese government and HizbAllah.

[whisper 0]

who talked about doing what hezbollah asks?

[Nemesis6 0]

No one. I want peoples' opinions about this. Because as always, we Europeans like to think that we can see things from way up there on our pedestal.

Negotiation is out of the picture and crushing HizbAllah is the only solution left. And HizbAllah are doing everything in their power to take as many civilians with them as possible. They did this during the civil war, too, and it's a damn good tactic because no matter what happens, the actions of their enemy will be condemned and they can continue killing.

[Donnervogel 0]

My opinion? Well I'll keep it short this time.

I am convinced you won't be able to root out Hesbollah. You can weaken their militia's offensive capabilities but you won't get rid of them and they will allwas try to attack Israel. But hesbollah is not only the militia. It is a significant political power inside Lebanon that needs to be taken into accound by the lebeanese political landscape.

I also don't see how the government of lebanon has attacked Israel. It simply didn't. Sure you can say they didn't act to disarm the hesbollah but that would be totally illusional considering Syria blocked any attempt to give Lebanon more than a silly excuse for an army so that the hesbollah militia is effectively the strongest armed force in the country.

Also as I already explained lebanon can't risk another civil war that's why their government can't act offensively against Hesbollah. The Sia muslims would consider such as an attack on them and rally behind Hesbollah.

[mattxr 9]

Rise the British Empire. Rise...  

lol the only thing they can do is fight now.. Israel cant give up any prisoners at all because they done that before, and if you do it once the enemy thinks your weak and therefore will do it again as what has happened.. this time Israel thought, not again, lets kill them all instead and went with force, destroying everything in there path...

Edit: "There will always be War, If there is differnt Religion's"

maybe if everyone worshiped 1 god in 1 way there would be no fighting..

[EiZei 0]

unlike Israel's response to this act of aggression by both the Lebanese government and HizbAllah.

Damn, this just reminds me of some soviet propaganda I read a while back regarding finland during winter war which talked about "finnish leaders whose dreams of conquest reach even the urals" and so forth.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I think the big question is - why are ants so much more civilised than man?

[Jinef 2]

Maybe if god loved everyone as much as people claim he would open the fucking skies and with a big stern face say "stop fucking killing each other you complete numpties".

As it is, there has been no divine intervention and it is quite reasonable to assume religion is once again the cause of death. It is a complete farce.

[Garcia 0]

Maybe if god loved everyone as much as people claim he would open the fucking skies and with a big stern face say "stop fucking killing each other you complete numpties".

As it is, there has been no divine intervention and it is quite reasonable to assume religion is once again the cause of death. It is a complete farce.

Indeed...I wonder how people can still belive in those fairytales when they keep seeing so much shit...probably because they find the thought of not really having any purpose frightening. They feel they need some greater purpose than getting born, living and dying...and then the question is, how can jews and muslims be so stupid to keep fighting partly because of religion when their god obviously don't give a shit, since he's not really helping out...

Religion is just getting people killed

[Nemesis6 0]

Maybe if god loved everyone as much as people claim he would open the fucking skies and with a big stern face say "stop fucking killing each other you complete numpties".

As it is, there has been no divine intervention and it is quite reasonable to assume religion is once again the cause of death. It is a complete farce.

What exactly does this have to do with religion?

[Necromancer- 0]

i guess the UK should invade Gaza, Iran and Syria and then take control of everything.. and then let there be peace..  

No, dude, Israel should have merely invaded Gaza and the West Bank AND taken control of everything just like every other conquering power did throughout history.  And then there really would have been peace just like there eventually was all those other times.

You see, Israel decared it's nation on around half of what had been Palestine, but soon after had conquered an additional 28%.  Haven't you ever asked yourself why that additional 28% never gave them any trouble compared with the remaining 22% (West Bank and Gaza) that they occupied, but chose not to conquer.

The answer is simple.  The Arab communities that remained in that conquered 28% were allowed to become Israeli citizens.  You don't see Hezbollah fighting for Israeli Arabs, do you?  You don't even see Israeli Arabs fighting for the liberation of their former homeland of Palestine.  Most are relatively satisfied with their livelihood, standard of living and Israeli passports.

There's only one reason that Israel hasn't completely conquered the West Bank and Gaza.  It's because the additional non-Jewish population would result in Israel having a non-Jewish majority, which would mean no more democratic Jewish state.  This is the only reason the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza have had to endure a stateless limbo for so long.  And this is why I've always been against a 2-state solution, in favour of a single state solution.

Having seen photo's of the Israëli girls in disco's and other parties...

I have solutions for that.

[Garcia 0]

Maybe if god loved everyone as much as people claim he would open the fucking skies and with a big stern face say "stop fucking killing each other you complete numpties".

As it is, there has been no divine intervention and it is quite reasonable to assume religion is once again the cause of death. It is a complete farce.

What exactly does this have to do with religion?

1: If it wasn't for religion, jews wouldn't have been "hunted" down during WWII (because obviously they wouldn't be jews), and would probably not need their own country.

2: If it wasn't for religion, jews wouldn't have had any reason to create the state of Israel at it current location.

3: If it wasn't for religion, what would have stopped jews and muslims from living together?

Most conflicts nowdays are based on religion...actually, you could go as far as to say that all conflicts nowdays are partly because of religion...

[j w 0]

But seriously, what's the big frikking problem.

Even if people think different, there's no excuse to kill other ppl. That's just retarded

[deanosbeano 0]

Quote[/b] ]What exactly does this have to do with religion?

glad you asked that question, i always wanted to ask what this had to do with religion ?

some on asked about a pysics chip and you saw it as a chance to , flame anothwer religion .

sorry for off topic, but on can only stand so much hypocrisy

[jakerod 254]

Quote[/b] ]Indeed...I wonder how people can still belive in those fairytales when they keep seeing so much shit...probably because they find the thought of not really having any purpose frightening. They feel they need some greater purpose than getting born, living and dying...and then the question is, how can jews and muslims be so stupid to keep fighting partly because of religion when their god obviously don't give a shit, since he's not really helping out...

Think about it this way. They were born and raised with their religion and because its so bad they believe that religion is what is saving them.

Lets say some house down the street gets hit by a rocket. The person living next door could think "Oh well my house didn't get hit it is obviously God's will that I was supposed to live and carry on the fight against those who hate my God. Thank you God for saving my life."

So then they go ahead and keep the fight up saying that God saved their life so they could rid the world of the 'evil non-believers'. Then they also go on saying that God saved them when in reality it was just a bit of luck. If the wind hadn't been so strong maybe his house would've gotten hit and he would be dead but then again you could also view it as hey "God wanted me to live."

Pretty much everything in the world boils down to a matter of opinion. Was it God's will that he lived? Was it luck? Was it fate? It all depends on your beliefes/opinion. It takes a lot for a person to lose faith in something that they have known their entire life to be true.

When they sit there and wonder why that poor little kid got killed by a mortar round they just make up something like "Oh maybe he was doing drugs or maybe he was going to be the next hitler or something."

God is pretty much just people's hope that their life is worth it and not just a waste of time. (As stated above)

This is probably the most unorganized post I have ever written.

[Nemesis6 0]

Excuse me, did you just criticize me for calling a person who says "Thank God for IEDs", and "God hates fags? She was and is a Christian fundamentalist nutjob. How exactly is it hypocracy that I don't like people like her? And this imaginary flamewar I started, where exactly was it? Lieing. Lieing doesn't really help your case.

I think one thing that you haven't understood is that you can criticize parts of a religion without criticizing the entire religion.

And Garcia, if it wasn't for religion, many parts of the world would be filled with cannibals today.

[kakagoegie 0]

Maybe if god loved everyone as much as people claim he would open the fucking skies and with a big stern face say "stop fucking killing each other you complete numpties".

As it is, there has been no divine intervention and it is quite reasonable to assume religion is once again the cause of death. It is a complete farce.

What exactly does this have to do with religion?

1: If it wasn't for religion, jews wouldn't have been "hunted" down during WWII (because obviously they wouldn't be jews), and would probably not need their own country.

2: If it wasn't for religion, jews wouldn't have had any reason to create the state of Israel at it current location.

3: If it wasn't for religion, what would have stopped jews and muslims from living together?

Most conflicts nowdays are based on religion...actually, you could go as far as to say that all conflicts nowdays are partly because of religion...

Hmm, I wouldn't say that so quickly.

1) Hitler did also target Gypsys (I hope I write this correctly). These were christians. But Hitler didn't slaughter all christians in Europe. If the "Jews weren't the Jews" Hitler would probaly have attacked the ethnic group with about the same result.

2) see 1

3) Look at central Africa, they're almost all christians (or local traditional religions) but still different tribes and ethnic groups keep slaughtering each other.

I must say I'm getting a bit sick about the "world without religion would be a world without conflicts" thingy. The greatest mass murderers in the history have been non-religious (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot).

And let's take a look at a "religious conflict": northern-ireland. Everybody (at least in Holland) calls it a conflict between catholics and anglicans. But it's a conflict between unionists and republicans.

regards

kaka

edit: nemisis, I agree that woman is a complete fool. Yes she is an christian fundamentalist.

[Messiah 2]

And let's take a look at a "religious conflict": northern-ireland. Everybody (at least in Holland) calls it a conflict between catholics and anglicans. But it's a conflict between unionists and republicans.

true, although remember that the religous background is by the fact that the republic of ireland is a staunch catholic country (as would have northern ireland), whereas the british are protestant (as a national religion)... the religous sides of the conflict came more by coincidence if anything, although it is used as reasons for tension... a catholic during the height of the tension could not live in a protestan area, and vice versa... obviously because the assumption was that catholic = republican, protestant = unionist

[Nemesis6 0]

That's just it. Being Jewish, for example, is as at least as much an ethnicity as it's a religion. And look at Africa, we didn't care about their religions. What mattered to us was the color of their skin, which we saw as making them less worth than us. The KKK couldn't care less if the Japanese are Shintoists and the Chinese are buddhists. To them, they're all just "chinks".

And saying that all religions are a farce is just arrogance on your part. You have no way of knowing if God exists or not. That's primarily the reason that I remain agnostic to this day.