The Middle East part 2

[Bernadotte 0]

Once upon a time...

and...

Actually, it was only 55 years ago when this currency was valid legal tender.  I know a few people who would be more disturbed by these images than the ones that deadsoldier posted.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Still drunk?

No but people like him dont deserve to have a word for them. They are nothing more than space vacuum canned in human bodies.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

lets get back on topic. Or we risk to bring down the peace-plan. Lets stay productive, and no terorist acts in this forum anymore please!  

And yes, I do have a serious minority complex because I am NOT a moderator!

[Bernadotte 0]

Ok... Since you're all just so anxious to find out why the currency images above are so interesting, I'll tell you.  

Each note and coin has "Palestine" on it in 3 languages:  English, Arabic and Hebrew.  However, the Hebrew text has something added.  See the Hebrew writing?  It's the non-Latin text on the left side of each.  Notice the brackets at the end of the Hebrew text?  They contain 2 letters - aleph and yod - an abreviation meaning "land of Israel."

This angered the non-Jewish majority of Palestine's population who feared that the British were lying to them and that their nation would ultimately be divided up or taken away from them completely.  

It also angered orthodox Jews who believed that only the Messiah could re-establish the nation of Israel.  

(Sorry.  I just couldn't resist misusing that smilie.)

It also angered the League of Nations because they'd assigned the Brits to administer Palestine according to the Mandate and remain neutral, rather than allow a reference to Israel to appear on the currency of Palestine.

[sarelg 0]

Most of the people believe that the battle in Jenin was throughout the city, it wasnt, it was only in the "refugee camp" which is only about 10 precent of Jenin

By the pictures of Jenin people think that it was completely destroyed, but actually only 8% precent of the refugee camp was destroyed

so, the actual damage is not that large, only 8% of the refugee camp, when the refugee camp is no more than 10% of the entire city

combat zone:

(That large undamaged building in the centre of the combat zone is the hospital)

BTW -

Quote[/b] ]It also angered orthodox Jews who believed that only the Messiah could re-establish the nation of Israel.

That's misleading, when you write stuff like that people think that ALL orthodox jews are against Israel which is not true, there are only a very few ULTRA orthodox jews that believe that, they are part of a movement called "Neturei Carta"

[Bernadotte 0]

BTW -

Quote[/b] ]It also angered orthodox Jews who believed that only the Messiah could re-establish the nation of Israel.

That's misleading, when you write stuff like that people think that ALL orthodox jews are against Israel which is not true, there are only a very few ULTRA orthodox jews that believe that, they are part of a movement called "Neturei Carta"

1.  I was referring to 1927 when the currency was introduced.  However, you present it as though I am writing about the present.

2.  I was only referring to the "orthodox Jews who believed that only the Messiah could re-establish the nation of Israel."  However, you claim I was referring to "ALL orthodox jews."

Sarelg, how can you expect any of us to believe anything that you post here when you so openly change the truth before our very eyes?    

[sarelg 0]

Quote[/b] ]1.  I was referring to 1927 when the currency was introduced.  However, you present it as though I am writing about the present.

2.  I was only referring to the "orthodox Jews who believed that only the Messiah could re-establish the nation of Israel."  However, you claim I was referring to "ALL orthodox jews."

I am not claiming anything, what I was merely trying to say is that the form in which you wrote it in could lead to false conclusions.

Quote[/b] ]Sarelg, how can you expect any of us to believe anything that you post here when you so openly change the truth before our very eyes?

Quite pathetic, don't you think?

[blackdog~ 0]

Why did you ban deadsoldier? I see no reason why he should be banned permanentley... he only posted the truth, and no matter how disgusting the images you saw were, they were real and you all know it. Those of you who dispute the fact that the gun wasn't pointed towards the children and mother in the one picture sicken me. It was, obviously. Why would the little boy and girl be hiding behind their mother if he was just defending them from that viewpoint.

I doubt he is sorry for what he did, and I understand why he isn't. deadsoldier has relatives in the Middle East which he lived in for 18 years and frankly, if someone said something that offended him and was pointed towards his relatives OR any one else in the middle east (except for terrorists etc), I understand why he would get angry. I know this, because I'm a good friend of his and normally, he is not like this. He is a loyal US citizen as well, and being of middle eastern decent (sp?) in the US is a hardship in itself especially after all of this terrorist shit.

Calling him anti-semtic, or racist because he was trying to DEFEND the people of the Middle East is flamebaiting. I would reccomend you apologize to him instead of him to you.

Nuff said....

[blackdog~ 0]

deadsoldier asked me to post this, for those of you who think he is a bad person. Regardless whether I agree/disagree with his points of view. Im just posting it for him cause he cant (ip banned). I hope I don't get PR'ed or banned for this.

Quote[/b] ]Dear all,

Since your decision was made based upon a fair and

balanced formula, i would assume that I still have the

chance to clear my self for

those who have misunderstood the whole thing, since my

post was completly removed making it hard for people

to understand the clear picture. And instead,

took the opinion of those few who found what i wrote

"racist" and "anti-semtic." With that said, allow me

to explain a few points that people have missed. When

i say "you" im talking to whoever called me a racist

and anti-semtic.

My post clearly showed the true picture of the

situation rather than getting lost in all the many

small problems that we see in the media today. It did

not contain

any hate words, any form of racism, or any anti-semtic

content. Beleive me, i know whats anti-semtic and

whats not. I grew up there my whole life hearing

anti-semtic this and anti-semetic that, to an extent

where it is being used today at a rediculous rate, and

rediculous situations. I know what not to say, and in

my post,

i was careful not to give anyone a chance to call me

anti-semtic. But it seems that a few people cant even

handle basic knowledge and facts. Thats because they

assume

they know all, and that their world is the only world.

Not only do they not realise, they CANT realise that

people all over the world live in completely differnet

worlds.

You cannot project your own life on others and expect

them to have the same feelings/thoughts/ideas as you

do. You see things from one perspetive, they see it

from another.

The things i said in my post are a common thing in my

part of the world, and it is a part of the world. Your

world is not the whole world. You dont seem to realise

that

you are part of the conflict as any body else inthe

middle east. Because of your lack of knowledge and

ignorance, and lack of tolerance and appreciation of

the extreme differences between

you and that part of the world, which helps keeping

this conflict alive, allowing the wrong picture to be

spread around,

knowing that most people will not question the

credibility or the trueth of it. Your ignorance helps

this conflict

grow rather than solving it.

 You are only adding wood to the

fire.

Just like you never knew that your tax money was

used to train bin-laden, and

also used to pay him over $300 mil just the summer

before sep 11th, your opinion in the middle east

conflict matters a lot to others around you who hear

you speak of it, and of those

uneducated people who just tend to live off other

peoples knowledge and information rather than make

their own opinion. People like you who created all

these differnces, people like you who caused the

frustration in people in the middle east, people like

you who have no tolerance to anything thats different

are the ones who are responsible for what is happening

today including sep 11th.

People that call me a racist just because i lived in

the conflict, and have a better understanding of the

situation than you.

Im by far not biosed, you probably think that i hail

bin-laden and saddam and the rest of our "great" arab

leaders, then you are what you are, ignorent. I

despise bin-laden, saddam, yasir arafat, all our damn

leaders for manipulating our people for their own

political plans and agendas. They are a greater enemy

to us and islam than they are to America and ISrael.

I grew up in both conflicts, the arab israeli

conflict, the islamic-western conflict and the inner

street man-goverment conflict. I grew up to know the

difference

between whats important and whats not, i grew up

learning that i should be treating the disease rather

than the symptoms. Like most of the news you hear

today in the media is 90% waste of time.

News and opinions and solutions that will not do any

good to the conflict, nor will it help end it. All it

is doing is making it more complicated when its a

rather simple conflict. DIFFERENCES AND TOLERANCE.

As i said in my post that has been deleted,i say it

again, the only solution these experts are coming up

with is giving the palestinians their own state. But

they forget the

fact that Jews will never look at non-Jews as equal.

History has shown that, its known worldwide, and its

not an anti-semtic remark, just like u dont think that

arabs are fanatics and terrorists is not anti-semtic.

And that will always cause a problem. Do i personaly

see any differences ? No. Im muslim, my best friend is

athiest, or an "infidel" as you would like to hear me

say. And my girlfriend is american christian.

So im not racist, nor am i biosed as i have explained

to you of my frustration and hatred towards my

leaders.

You calling me a racist is utter ignorance and an act

of revenge from not being able to handle my remarks,

and calling them anti-semtic is the typical answer

when you cant find one. Very old trick, as a matter of

fact, people are

sick of hearing the phrase "anti-semtic" GET OVER IT!

Balschoiw, if i came from a cave, atleast that cave

was open to the outside world, while yours was

sheltered, with small opening where the brave and

humane are trying to make it bigger for the rest of

people like you.

You are one of those who is afraid to look out your

world and see a differnt universe right out side your

front door. Your the weak, the faint hearted, the less

developed lowest form of human species. If there is a

person to come out

of a cave, that would be you, (ofcourse after

everybody have left it centuries before you.)

Banning me from this forum reflects the feelings

people with "differences" have towards us arabs and

muslims. If anyone was calling us terrorists on this

very forum, the worst he would get is a warning,

while my warning bar went from 1 right to 5 from one

time. That clearly reflects the violent retaliations

we see today to problems you have started.

No shit some young men get so frustrated and end up

blowing them selves up! Can you imagine what state of

mind you would have to be

to decide to kill your self? No you cant, and you

never will, unless you go and live there. But ofcourse

why should you, your comfy here.

If any one of you here was born palestinian, are you

gonna tell me that you will grow up there and still

have that same stance you have today? Which is why

the hell do palestinians throw rocks. You ask your

self that quesiton.

The only thing i admit to as doing wrong, was show the

picture of the dead body, while is whole body was

covered but his face. I apologise to that. Me being

banned reflects the true situation of the stance the

rest of the world has to the middle east issue.

They will only hear what they want, and will reject

what they want. It almost seemed to me that this was a

mini simulation of the middle east conflict.

Its pretty ironic that you can't handle seeing a dead

body, when this very game that you play and enjoy

simulates war/violence and death. And we the Modding

comunity trying hard to make it as real as it gets!

Very poor excuse.

Im banned

now, i dont know what it will solve, excpet for

filling that

hole in your heart called revenge. I can always sign

up with a different name/IP. Its your choice to unban

me or give me a warning like you would to others on

this board who have been into arguments about this

very same

issue. And i would request that this thread be closed,

because the responsibility of this issue

and opinion should not be put inthe hands of some

people who showed to be ignorant, uneducated and

proud.

If you have reached this line, then i respect you for

taking the interest to knowmy story rather than

comfortably deciding that im racist/anti-semetic and

should be banned.

With that said, I will say no more about this issue.

I agree for the most part with this. This thread should be closed and locked and this topic should never be discussed again. It hasn't gotten us any further in life nor has it helped us make friends with eachother. It just seperates us into a few different groups.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Balschoiw, if i came from a cave, atleast that cave

was open to the outside world, while yours was

sheltered, with small opening where the brave and

humane are trying to make it bigger for the rest of

people like you.

You are one of those who is afraid to look out your

world and see a differnt universe right out side your

front door. Your the weak, the faint hearted, the less

developed lowest form of human species. If there is a

person to come out

of a cave, that would be you, (ofcourse after

everybody have left it centuries before you.)

Hehe that´s quite funny. So working for the UN as a soldier that goes abroad to deal with problems that would not really touch me in germany is living in a cave...

Hehe, I´ll have to look for a portable cave when I leave germany for my next task.

Farewell deadsoldier ! You have proven yourself as a real knowing man

[Placebo 29]

Why did you ban deadsoldier? I see no reason why he should be banned permanentley... he only posted the truth, and no matter how disgusting the images you saw were, they were real and you all know it.

I see at least two rules that are relevant here.......

Quote[/b] ]§4)No posting of explicit images

No posting of pictures containing porn, real killing, mutilations and other disgusting images. This also includes links to such images.

And....

Quote[/b] ]§6)No discussion on how the forum is moderated

All comments about how the forum is moderated and your opinions on the moderators should be sent by PM to the moderator whose decision you disagree with.

The first quoted rule is why he was banned, end of discussion.

Deadsoldier has been banned therefore he has no voice on this forum, I would request that you refrain from making posts on his behalf and that the people who contribute in this thread refrain from making any further comments in response to Deadsoldier's quotes, if PR's need to be handed out to enforce that then so be it.

As for yourself Blackdog you used to be a really valuable contributor to the forums, however of late it seems to me that a couple of moderating decisions have gone against you and you've reacted to them in a rather negative manner, I would suggest you take the time to try to learn from that experience so you can continue to use the forums and hopefully go back to being an important part of this forum. If you have any issues with my post here feel free to PM me, otherwise I consider this matter closed.

[PitViper 0]

How sad.

Quote[/b] ] It did

not contain

any hate words, any form of racism, or any anti-semtic

content.

hmmm...

Quote[/b] ]As i said in my post that has been deleted,i say it

again, the only solution these experts are coming up

with is giving the palestinians their own state. But

they forget the

fact that Jews will never look at non-Jews as equal.

History has shown that, its known worldwide, and its

not an anti-semtic remark.

This is the key to everything there IMHO. I think that you have just proven (at least to me) that a Palestinian state will still not work because ultimately its "all about the jew" and your recycled stereotype.  your post confirms this.

Quote[/b] ]Banning me from this forum reflects the feelings

people with "differences" have towards us arabs and

muslims.

unbelievable. If the difference is not wanting the Jews pushed into the sea, then I embrace that difference.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Deadsoldier has been banned therefore he has no voice on this forum, I would request that you refrain from making posts on his behalf and that the people who contribute in this thread refrain from making any further comments in response to Deadsoldier's quotes

edit: you already had 4 boxes under your title and you yet decided to go on rule breaking.....

[Bernadotte 0]

From the discussion on Israel being mentioned on the 1927 Palestinian currency:

Bernadotte:  It also angered orthodox Jews who believed that only the Messiah could re-establish the nation of Israel.

sarelg:  That's misleading, when you write stuff like that people think that ALL orthodox jews are against Israel which is not true, there are only a very few ULTRA orthodox jews that believe that, they are part of a movement called "Neturei Carta"

Bernadotte:  I was only referring to the "orthodox Jews who believed that only the Messiah could re-establish the nation of Israel."  However, you claim I was referring to "ALL orthodox jews."

sarelg:  I am not claiming anything, what I was merely trying to say is that the form in which you wrote it in could lead to false conclusions.

I did not and would not write anything in any "form" that conveys the impression that "ALL orthodox Jews are against Israel."  But, since you are not "claiming" that my facts are wrong, perhaps you should simply rewrite my statement so that it presents the same info in a "form" that you will be satisfied with.

[Balschoiw 0]

The current peace process (called "the road map") has reduced terrorist attacks and, as a result, Israeli raids into Palestinian territory and battles between Palestinian terrorists and Israeli troops. But the Israelis continue to build their "security wall" (actually a system with multiple walls and sensors) to separate Israeli and Palestinian territory. But the Palestinians feel that this will become a permanent border. The Palestinians are also vexed that the wall incorporates many Jewish settlements in Palestinian territory. The 900 kilometer wall will cost $1.8 billion. Israeli intelligence says that the lack of Israeli raids has enabled the terrorist organizations to openly rebuild their infrastructure, recruit and train people. This violates the peace process, as the Palestinian terrorist organizations are supposed to be disarmed, but there is no sign that this is going to happen. There's a similar situation with the Jewish settlements in Palestinian territory. The current Israeli government says it is willing to remove a few, but not all, of them.

The death toll in 35 months of violence is now 3,386 (2,552 Palestinian and 773 Israelis plus some foreigners). Since the three month cease-fire began on June 29th, 12 people have been killed.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Mmmm the wall is very sad and im wondering how (or if) they are going to handle it in the future. I suppose it will be continued to completion. Kind of disheartening as it makes this peace plan look for all the world like a temporary blip that the Israelis are already planning beyond.

Then theres the question of terror groups (and settlers?) disarming. Here i have almost no hope . In the much less heated Northern Ireland situation and in a time of relative peace even the mainstream IRA have problems with disarming so as for Hamas etc disarming after so much carnage-well i cant see it happening without some kind of total revolution in affairs.

Still, less people have been dying in the cycle of violence and thats no bad thing

[Major Fubar 0]

Berlin Wall anyone? We all know what a step forward that was...

[Bernadotte 0]

The <span style='color:green'>green</span> line is the West Bank border.

The <span style='color:red'>red</span> line is where the wall is being built.

Question:  Why has the Palestinian town of Qalqiliya been completely isolated?

Hint:  The <span style='color:blue'>blue</span> areas are Israeli settlements.

[Acecombat 0]

Deadsoldier IMO had some excellent points which i fully support.

Too bad he had to banned for posting images (that werent allowed to be posted) but i guess he deserves a chance

Walls now ??

Whats next it already takes people here to travel from Israel to Palestine a day (yes a freakin day specially if youre a palestinian) road blocks and crap.

I guess we'll just build tunnels now

[Acecombat 0]

By an Arab author...

A few days ago I was asked by a concerned American on what she could contribute in aid of the Palestinian people and for the first time in my life I understood when Malcolm X was asked years ago again by an American what could she do to help the blacks in America and he answered her “nothingâ€. Of course Malcolm X apologized, later to that lady and I today apologize for thinking it if not saying it.

However, I can no longer suffer the excuses my American friends give me of their countrymen’s blinded support of Israel. They tell me that Americans are ignorant of the true facts about the Arab Israeli conflict. They say that the Arabs have failed in getting their message to the American public and we should try harder.

I find this very hard to believe. This is the strongest nation on earth today. It has been on the forefront of science and technology. It holds great institutes of knowledge and its people have easy access to them. Finally, they live in the age of information, which they were its creators.

If the Americans are incapable of finding out the truth for themselves on any thing than they are either dumb or criminally negligent.

They say the Americans know very little about Islam that is why they are hostile to it. I ask you do they know more about Buddhism or Hinduism or any other religion for that matter and does their ignorance of these other civilization and religions push them to hostility toward them.

They say that the Jewish lobby is dominating American politics and we should try do get our own lobby to influence the American politics in the other way. I thought human rights were given equally to all and in a democracy every individual has the ability to change the politics of his country. Is the American democracy a dysfunctional one whereby, the people no longer have a say in their government’s policy.

When the Second World War ended the Germans at the time claimed they new not what crimes their government had committed toward the people they conquered but the allies refused to accept this as an exculpation of the German peoples guilt. They put fines on the German people, which they are paying until today. If you couldn’t excuse the Germans claim of ignorance for the events, which took place for four years than, why should we excuse the Americans claim of ignorance for the crimes committed against us for the last 50 years?

[ralphwiggum 6]

yesterday, on a news, it was reported that US is telling Israel to stop construction of fence, or US will cut amount of support fund equalling that of constructing the fence to Israel.

[bucket man 2]

US should cut all funding and arms sales to Israel and force them to back of to borders set by U.N by threatening them with embargo.

Palestinian terrorist organizations could be forced to disarm by threatening them with bombings and U.N peacekeepers could establish temporary DMZ between Israel and Palestina.

I know thats not realistic but it could work.

[Schoeler 0]

US should cut all funding and arms sales to Israel and force them to back of to borders set by U.N by threatening them with embargo.

Palestinian terrorist organizations could be forced to disarm by threatening them with bombings and U.N peacekeepers could establish temporary DMZ between Israel and Palestina.

I know thats not realistic but it could work.

That might be the best strategy. Refuse to subsidize Israeli expansionist policy and cut off arms sales and funding to them, while simultaneously telling the radical terrorist groups that we'll help the Israelios root them out and destroy them as part of the war on terrorism.

Stage a few Delta or SEAL raids to eliminate the extremists who break the ceasefire, and simultaneously sanction Israel for every encroachment into Palestinian territory and for every anti-unification action they take.

[Acecombat 0]

yesterday, on a news, it was reported that US is telling Israel to stop construction of fence, or US will cut amount of support fund equalling that of constructing the fence to Israel.

You dreamer you

[bn880 5]

2 Suicide blasts against Israelis in retaliation for rocket attack on Hamas members and blatant stupidity on part of Western media:

Article

Why stupidity? because on TV here the news read: "This length of time of peace shattered by two suicide bombings" They say this twice on CTV news (very popular in Canada)

When in fact, the peace was shattered if at all by the rocket attack by israelis earlier, killing 2 Hamas members, or by israel not actually releasing (any?) prisonners as per the roadmap.