Competition for M16/M4 replacement opens

[Bordoy 0]

So the weapons currently running for the US armed forces standard issues rifle are:

G36

XM-8

SA80 (?)

what else?

I don't think the SA80 is actually in consideration, it has too bad a reputation (deserved or not)

Well if HK has entered it, doesn't it have to be looked at?

[stgn 39]

So the weapons currently running for the US armed forces standard issues rifle are:

G36

XM-8

SA80 (?)

what else?

For those who are interested here is the AUG A3:

Big picture of GL

I am prity sure G36 and SA80 isen't running

The weapon systems i know of i running is:

XM8

LW 5.56C-P(Basicaly the same as the M4 today except it has a pusher rod and new bolt/bolt carrier and is 40 times more reliable)and the MRS version of it.

Posibilities:

Robinsonarms XCR(problery since they did not get the SCAR contract(they never got tested because they did'nt make a BFA))

COLT M5, at least im prity sure they are gonna submit somthing.

If HK was too submit another gun it would problerly be M416

FN, Steyer and the rest of the small arms industri problery are gonna see if they have somthing they can submit.

STGN

[MontyVCB 0]

So the weapons currently running for the US armed forces standard issues rifle are:

G36

XM-8

SA80 (?)

what else?

I don't think the SA80 is actually in consideration, it has too bad a reputation (deserved or not)

i think iraq has given the the SA80A2 a new better rep than before, tho the magazine fiasco in afghanistan did'nt help

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

So the weapons currently running for the US armed forces standard issues rifle are:

G36

XM-8

SA80 (?)

what else?

I don't think the SA80 is actually in consideration, it has too bad a reputation (deserved or not)

i think iraq has given the the SA80A2 a new better rep than before, tho the magazine fiasco in afghanistan did'nt help

It has a much better reputation for reliability, but it still has the other major failings - too heavy, outdated gas system, difficult to clean, etc.

[pajama 0]

HOLY CRAP!

That Steyr AUG A3 looks...BAD@SS!!!

I say the the FN F2000 just lost the beauty contest for the best looking bulpump (?) carbine.

I'd be really piss if some one dos'nt do a custom model  (not a hackjob) for CS, even if I don't play it any more.

*drools*...

[Ares1978 0]

HOLY CRAP!

That Steyr AUG A3 looks...BAD@SS!!!

I say the the FN F2000 just lost the beauty contest for the best looking bulpump (?) carbine.

I'd be really piss if some one dos'nt do a custom model  (not a hackjob) for CS, even if I don't play it any more.

*drools*...

christ..  

The FN F2000 lost before it entered the contest and the bullpup beauty contest is still lead by the SAR-21.

[MontyVCB 0]

So the weapons currently running for the US armed forces standard issues rifle are:

G36

XM-8

SA80 (?)

what else?

I don't think the SA80 is actually in consideration, it has too bad a reputation (deserved or not)

i think iraq has given the the SA80A2 a new better rep than before, tho the magazine fiasco in afghanistan did'nt help  

It has a much better reputation for reliability, but it still has the other major failings - too heavy, outdated gas system, difficult to clean, etc.

how much more heavier is the SA80 than other NATO rifles? the reason i ask is that i've never held a armalite or anything like that, so the weight of the SA80 has never really bugged me

[Bordoy 0]

SA80 - 5kg with SUSAT and 30 rounds of ammo

M16A2 - 4.47Kg with 30 rounds of ammo

FAMAS G2- 3.8kg with NO ammo

XM8 - 2.659KG Empty

G36C - 2.8Kg Empty

Its the heaviest out of them but 5kg ain't that heavy.

[Gordy 0]

Its the heaviest out of them but 5kg ain't that heavy.

How about carrying it for a whole day? It starts to weight, doesn't it.

[Ares1978 0]

Its the heaviest out of them but 5kg ain't that heavy.

How about carrying it for a whole day? It starts to weight, doesn't it.

Imagine just being a few kg heavier. That's about how big the difference is.

Besides, the total weight of your gear doesn't usually change, a lighter rifle only means you can carry something else too.

The weight also has a couple of advantages, but their value can always be questioned, when you are talking about rifles made for combat.

[stgn 39]

SA80 - 5kg with SUSAT and 30 rounds of ammo

M16A2 - 4.47Kg with 30 rounds of ammo

FAMAS G2- 3.8kg with NO ammo

XM8 - 2.659KG Empty

G36C - 2.8Kg Empty

Its the heaviest out of them but 5kg ain't that heavy.

a few corrections

M16A2- ca. 3.90kg with 30 rounds

XM8(carbine)- ca. 3.90kg with 30 rounds

STGN

[stgn 39]

Its the heaviest out of them but 5kg ain't that heavy.

How about carrying it for a whole day? It starts to weight, doesn't it.

Imagine just being a few kg heavier. That's about how big the difference is.

Besides, the total weight of your gear doesn't usually change, a lighter rifle only means you can carry something else too.

The weight also has a couple of advantages, but their value can always be questioned, when you are talking about rifles made for combat.

Year but when in combat u usualy don't carry the gear you don't need like enything els that is not in you basis.

STGN

[Ares1978 0]

Year but when in combat u usualy don't carry the gear you don't need like enything els that is not in you basis.

STGN

Like extra ammo?

[MontyVCB 0]

Its the heaviest out of them but 5kg ain't that heavy.

How about carrying it for a whole day? It starts to weight, doesn't it.

i've done it, its not that heavy if you have a sling on it

[Necromancer- 0]

SA80 - 5kg with SUSAT and 30 rounds of ammo

M16A2 - 4.47Kg with 30 rounds of ammo

FAMAS G2- 3.8kg with NO ammo

XM8 - 2.659KG Empty

G36C - 2.8Kg Empty

Its the heaviest out of them but 5kg ain't that heavy.

true... but i prefer the 2 kg's to be used for other stuff than the rifle..

Although, holding a 5 kg bullpup rifle in shooting position isn't really heavy.. actually... it's not heavy at all.

[stgn 39]

Year but when in combat u usualy don't carry the gear you don't need like enything els that is not in you basis.

STGN

Like extra ammo?

Year cause you don't need extra ammo You problery would load up your basis with everything you can carry of ammo but backpack, food, sleepingbag etc have little use in combat. I am thinking a direct action a planed attack not getting ambushed wihle on patrole.

STGN

[wipman 1]

Hi, i think that the L85A1's of the 1St serie, were a shit. Now with the L85A2 (aka L86 i think) it's better (gas system of the H&K G36A). Carry an iron of 5.4 or 5.6Kg all the day... + the vest + extra ammo + nades + backpack + helmet + some other shits... can left you, with between 15 to 20Kg of basic equipment. The mags use to be in good condition in most of the AR (= Automatic Riffles) of the armourys of the armys, not the bounce; instead carry 30, u use to carry 20 or 25 rnds; i belive that the L85A2 it's a good weapon, i don't like the sight, the same sight than in a cetme LV; it have a very small periferic view field in comparison to other sights but those need an adapter at least for be used on a cetme LV. Sure that the 70% of the M16's suck; but i think that they haven't made it so bad with the improvements on the M16A4; for CQB a M4A1 could be better than a full AR, it's shorter... & u can collapse the stock & then make it as shorter as a bullup AR; u can turn better in the doors but if u gonna shoot with "that" at 400m... make 1 or 2 preys before pull the trigga 'couse ya don't gonna hit a shit wiz that bullshit, over all... in full auto. The real life it's not the OFP; but at least the real life... don't have lag. Let's cu.

[MontyVCB 0]

the L85A2 gas parts are not all that different from the A1, HK just made some slight modifications to them and made out of higher quailty of matierals. the L85A2's gas parts are totally different to the G36's, i also still think having full rifles is the way to go, this carbine fad is just because of all the close urban fighting in iraq, what happens when you are on a open landscape and you need to engage targets at 400m+, are you gonna be able to do this with a M4 or a XM8, i think not, i don't know what the US army have against bullpups, but if they want a weapon with the range and accuracy of a rifle and the size of a carbine, they are going to have to give the bullpup concept a good think.

[Bordoy 0]

Has anyone heard anything about a L85A3 (SA80A3)?

My brother was on about it today, that improvements could be made in the future.

[Bordoy 0]

SA80 - 5kg with SUSAT and 30 rounds of ammo

M16A2 - 4.47Kg with 30 rounds of ammo

FAMAS G2- 3.8kg with NO ammo

XM8 - 2.659KG Empty

G36C - 2.8Kg Empty

Its the heaviest out of them but 5kg ain't that heavy.

a few corrections

M16A2- ca. 3.90kg with 30 rounds

XM8(carbine)- ca. 3.90kg with 30 rounds

STGN

You sure?

M-16A2 weights

XM8 weight

[MontyVCB 0]

i've never heard of the A3, i've seen it in a newspaper once, but it was a typo , i would'nt think it would be a major upgrade, maybe its a special forces version?

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I've not heard anything about the L85A3, there's nothing about it on the DPA's site (where you'd expect to be able to read about all of the MoD's existing and future equipment programs) either.

Are you perhaps thinking about the Carbine version of the SA-80 that's due to be issued to tank crews from 2006? Not sure what the designation for that is yet.

[MontyVCB 0]

the SA80K has already been issued in small numbers IICR

[Ares1978 0]

Year cause you don't need extra ammo You problery would load up your basis with everything you can carry of ammo but backpack, food, sleepingbag etc have little use in combat. I am thinking a direct action a planed attack not getting ambushed wihle on patrole.

STGN

How about just being there? Not specifically in combat at that moment. You are usually issued a certain amount of ammo based on a few things, among other things how much the average soldier can carry (usually a certain weight is reserved for weapons and ammo). The lighter the rifle, the more ammunition you can (and probably will) carry. If it's not ammo, it's some other piece of vital equipment. The few hundred grams you save by making a lighter rifle doesn't benefit you one bit after that, the total weight you will carry into combat will be the same.

[Bordoy 0]

I'm not sure about the A3 thing.

Maybe the US are planning to use it and are merely having it has an upgrade lol