Chinese Navy could surpass size of USN

[D34N 0]

Quote[/b] ]No way Chinese Navy is going to surpass the USN in the next 10 years.

Exactly, Rumsfeld is just using scare tactics to ensure massive military funding in the future.

Quote[/b] ]I can't believe that we have people here that would trust Communist China over the U.S. Are you people nuts?

China is really more of an authoritarian open market government.

Quote[/b] ]If China is expanding its military, it's doing it for a reason.

Because they are going to become a superpower, and superpowers have big militaries.

Quote[/b] ]They either feel threatened by U.S. influence or they want more weight to push around other nations.

A lot of nations feel threatened by the United States, And the US uses its power to push other nations around.. what from stopping China? (Other than an invasion)

Quote[/b] ]All of that has to come from somewhere, right? What are they going to do if they can't get enough?

Probably try and look for alternative resources. I doubt they would invade the middle east, even when they are a superpower. I also doubt the US would stand for it, mind you when China becomes a superpower the US won't wither away and die.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Quote[/b] ]China is really more of an authoritarian open market government.

True.... and they use cheap (or slave) labour to under-bid any country in the Western world for just about any kind of product or service. Then they turn around and use the money to invest in (or buy out) Western business. Just for an example; the Chinese own something like 25% of the beer companies in the U.S. Just a few months ago a Chinese company bought up the largest coal company in Canada.

A few decades from now the Chinese shouldn't have to invade anyone, they'll own half the world.

By 2007 Chinese cars will make their way onto the North American market (organised by the same guy who imported Yugo's back in the 80's). The starting price is something like $7000, that's half the price of most entry level cars made by the "big three" or any other maker. The same thing happened with electronics back in the 70's/80's. It's all just part of a slow take over.

[theavonlady 2]

I still remember when Japan was said to be taking over Europe and N. America.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

I still remember when Japan was said to be taking over Europe and N. America.

And then their economy tanked.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I still remember when Japan was said to be taking over Europe and N. America.

And then their economy tanked.

Which makes the results found in recent NATO-sponsored Workshop in Universidade da Beira Interior that more worrying, laying bare the ties between the laws governing economic tendencies and the insurgence of great conflicts. It has been generally accepted that the Kondratieff cycles are a hard-fact law in action that act upon the economic conditions, and it was discovered that when the economies are in a bad shape or in the phase of recovery, it is a very propicious time for large-scale conflicts to arise. From that Workshop as well came conclusions that about in 30 years a MAJOR conflict will happen between the oriental and the ocidental countries, perhaps even a global-scale war. This is a very scary prospect because, compared to what the armies of the most powerful countries had in storage in the last two world-wide conflicts, the current weapons are of an unimaginable lethality. So, let's just hope that, since we're able to predict something, we may also be able to prevent another world-wide conflict from happening!

[somebloke 0]

If you ask me, i couldn't give a damn bout the size of the Chinese or US Navy.

The Royal Navy beats them all.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Aircraft Carriers are over-rated. They're actually very vulnerable to attack as wargames have proved. An old Dutch sub scored several kills including a carrier against the USN. This was against an entire carrier battle fleet too! ONE diesel powered sub! The Americans didn't even find it and it escaped unharmed.

It's happened on several occasions, even the Canadian Navy has done it. Infact, I think the USN has the lowest score in these wargames. The Royal Navy manage to do even better. Although that isn't suprising seeing as our submarine fleet is the most potent in the world, even more so than the US Navy's because that's our nuclear deterant.

The Chinese have an un-natual ability it seems to pull of MASSIVE scale production, so I think these estimates are quite accurate. Plus if experts are saying this too, then I think those saying it's bull on this board lack the credibility. No offense.

[Nemesis6 0]

Well, the way I see it - If the Chinese military some time in the future surpasses that of the U.S. , I wouldn't worry - their rifles would eventually screw up internally one by one, their ships would sink one by one due to bad construction, and their army, generally speaking, would still be a poor match. I'd say one U.S. soldier is equal to about 10 to 15+ Chinese infantry-men. Quantity NEVER beats quality. Sorry for being so black & white, but this whole "take this gun and get out there" technique just doesn't work.

[EiZei 0]

Well, the way I see it - If the Chinese military some time in the future surpasses that of the U.S. , I wouldn't worry - their rifles would eventually screw up internally one by one, their ships would sink one by one due to bad construction, and their army, generally speaking, would still be a poor match. I'd say one U.S. soldier is equal to about 10 to 15+ Chinese infantry-men. Quantity NEVER beats quality. Sorry for being so black & white, but this whole "take this gun and get out there" technique just doesn't work.

Sounds kinda like what the nazis thought of soviet union back in 1940. "If they get their asses handed back by some poorly armed finns their equipment must be crap! Well surely match their superior numbers!"

Hubris is one step on a very long road to defeat.

[Necromancer- 0]

Mimicking stereo-type C&C:Generals voices of China...

"Expanding China's borders!"

Nemesis6.. I doubt that Chinese military equipment will never equal it's NATO's counter-part. In fact.. I think they will attain at least equal levels, because the Chinese are very known in copying foreign technology with success...

Despite the size of China's navy... they will all get sunk by superior US submarines such as the Los Angeles class and the Seawolf class.

No non-NATO country has such a superior submarine fleet such as the US.

And even if China has the technology to build massive amounts of warships that at least equal in quality as NATO ships.. it would take at least 20 years to do so.

Though China has one superweapon at its disposal of which we all fear of.. and that are nukes.

[red oct 2]

Rumsfeld is a idiot who should have a gag order slaped on him. only thing the man does well is scaring the crap out of the population w/ his concerns about China's Navy or other possible Dooms Day scenerio's. i really doubt there would be a war between China and the U.S. it would simply be too costly for either side and if oil really becomes a problem it would just be cheaper to switch over to a alternative like Biofuel which is made from soybeans and the United States alone produces 34% of the worlds soybeans.

[bonko the sane 2]

Despite the size of China's navy... they will all get sunk by superior US submarines such as the Los Angeles class and the Seawolf class.

No non-NATO country has such a superior submarine fleet such as the US.

And even if China has the technology to build massive amounts of warships that at least equal in quality as NATO ships.. it would take at least 20 years to do so.

Though China has one superweapon at its disposal of which we all fear of.. and that are nukes.

you seem to forget that russia developed Shkval rocket torpedo that are faster than any other right now, and nothing can stop them. Its also well known they sold some to china and Iran. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/4/23/220813.shtml China is not Afanistan or Iraq or some other 3rd world country where cowboys can play indians and robbers. Honestly i dont think the USA would survive a conflict with China, and thats why it wont happen.

[D34N 0]

Quote[/b] ]An old Dutch sub scored several kills including a carrier against the USN. This was against an entire carrier battle fleet too! ONE diesel powered sub! The Americans didn't even find it and it escaped unharmed.

Link?

Americans don't generally will war games.. although win have a habit of (generally) winning wars.

Quote[/b] ]It's happened on several occasions, even the Canadian Navy has done it.

Again link?

Canada got wicked old subs from Britain, and then there was a fiasco about a submarine malfunction.

Quote[/b] ]I think the USN has the lowest score in these wargames. The Royal Navy manage to do even better. Although that isn't suprising seeing as our submarine fleet is the most potent in the world, even more so than the US Navy's because that's our nuclear deterant.

Yes, both the British and Aussie RN submarines and their crew are of the highest quality, no doubt about it.

Quote[/b] ]Honestly i dont think the USA would survive a conflict with China, and thats why it wont happen.

Honestly that may be your opinion, my opinion is at least until 2012+ America could conduct an Air and Naval war and win, however there is variable that could affect the out come of the war: North Korea.

Quote[/b] ]

Though China has one superweapon at its disposal of which we all fear of.. and that are nukes.

China will not use nuclear weapons.

[cozza 24]

Yes, both the British and Aussie RN submarines and their crew are of the highest quality, no doubt about it.

Australia has quality submarine crews What I learn when I stay home from school

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ]An old Dutch sub scored several kills including a carrier against the USN. This was against an entire carrier battle fleet too! ONE diesel powered sub! The Americans didn't even find it and it escaped unharmed.

Link?

Americans don't generally will war games.. although win have a habit of (generally) winning wars.

.. winning wars with nations like Iraq, like hulk hogan taking on a 5-year-old retarded kid on a playground.

[D34N 0]

Quote[/b] ].. winning wars with nations like Iraq, like hulk hogan taking on a 5-year-old retarded kid on a playground.

Its not our fault that our Iraq military sucked, wait.. nevermind.. it is..

So 'we' go after the weak and evil sometimes (Unless they are in Africa or Central America)

[-MP-OFP-CRICON 0]

The maximum possible of conflict between China and U.S is the Taiwan Issue,not for the resource,North Korea issue etc.

Most Chinese Weapon system is the production of 60's and 70's,Now is time to change.so the increasing military spending

is not surprise.and that is much little than Japan's military spending.

Even when China becomes prosperous and powerful in the future, it will never seek hegemony.This is the basic state policy we will continue to follow unswervingly.

[D34N 0]

Quote[/b] ]The maximum possible of conflict between China and U.S is the Taiwan Issue

Quoted for truth.. just want to make sure everyone here knows that.

[HellToupee 0]

what happened in korea? i seem to rember the chinese sending the UN packing.

[DracoPaladore 0]

what happened in korea? i seem to rember the chinese sending the UN packing.

Korea was a cease fire, neither a win or lose situation for both sides if I remember.

[bucket man 2]

Well first NK beats the UN and SK into oblivion. Then UN performed the Inchon landing and whooped NK's ass. Then the chinese came in and drove the UN back to the original borders and then came the cease fire.

Korean War in a nutshell!

[Drongo69 117]

I'm reminded of the novel "Invasion" by Eric L. Harry in which China invades the USA. It's basically military science-fiction, but very entertaining. Central to the background of the story are Chinese super-carriers. The main point of relevance is that weak politics can be even more disastrous than a weak military.

I'm interested though. Which countries can be expected to have decent force-projection capabilites in the next 10-20 years? (A battalion or two of airborne troops not being considered "decent").

Finally, I think the magic of the USA is that by the time China is deploying reasonable aircraft carriers, the US will be refining zero-g infantry combat. Which reminds me of another novel.

[havocsquad 0]

Can you imagine the favors China would expect from the US if they threatened military action against their nuclear neighbor and friend North Korea?

It could be a possibility in the future if North Korean's political policy/strategy starts to turn more radical and more demanding for "power player" world political status. Regime change to something close to China's political system, still Democracy vs. Communism but not as many political prisoners, some added freedoms, more economic stability and hugely less "re-education" death camps.

South Korea might not like it, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if NK got turned into a puppet govt. of the PRC. At least some reform would be in action.

Anyways, that's just my two cents about the issue.

Later,

Havoc.

[Homefry 0]

I'm not worried at all about China building up their navy. I don't see any sort of new technology that really worries me coming out from their end, besides their new SSBN's. America has and will mantain superiority in the naval category. With the new Virginia class subs coming, and more advanced surface ships being readied for production, I don't see how China will surpass us.

China's navy is mainly compromised of older Soviet designs. Though not totally obsolete, the American ships are more advanced, and more deadly. Integration is a massive part of the US Navy war fighting stragedy, and it doesn't seem as if China's systems can match that of the US, or any other major NATO country.

[Daddl 10]

Chinese military to increase budget by 12% (bbc online)

Quote[/b] ]The rise comes as parliament is set to debate a so called "anti-secession law", aimed at curbing any bid by Taiwan for formal independence.

China always says it would oppose independence, by force if necessary.

The increase also comes amid mounting concern in the United States about China's military modernisation.