human rights for the al-queda terrorists

[caz 0]

who else gets sicken by all these human rights groups that are complaining about the way they were (al queda, terrorists) transported to Cuba

like come on to f**k , do they live in a dream world or something? these people dont deserver ANYTHING

[red oct 2]

i totaly 100% agree with you, if anything they should force them to walk through NYC while taking a onslaugt of beer bottles, rocks, and other blunt objects thrown by angry victoms, than force them to clear away the rubble of the WTC.

[nordin dk 0]

Hmm

Let's say you took part in a US military operation, that the other side decided to brand as terrorism (take for instance the US shooting down of Iraqi airplanes), and you got captured...wouldn't you want to have some human rights?

And get this straight, I'm not saying 9/11 wasn't terrorism, or that the Al-Queda are the nicest people on earth.

But I think that dragging them kicking and screaming through the streets wont do anybody any good. (Remember the US soldier in Somalia?)

Bring them before the internatinal war tribunal in Haag. That's what it's there for.

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ Jan. 13 2002,04:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmm

Let's say you took part in a US military operation, that the other side decided to brand as terrorism (take for instance the US shooting down of Iraqi airplanes), and you got captured...wouldn't you want to have some human rights?

And get this straight, I'm not saying 9/11 wasn't terrorism, or that the Al-Queda are the nicest people on earth.

But I think that dragging them kicking and screaming through the streets wont do anybody any good. (Remember the US soldier in Somalia?)

Bring them before the internatinal war tribunal in Haag. That's what it's there for.<span id='postcolor'>

probley not but it would make many feel better and for that matter i could serriously care less of the treatment of terrorists, they can burn them alive for all i care

secondly i seriously dougt that no matter how well we treated iragi prisoners, that they would return the favor.

[Placebo 28]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ Jan. 13 2002,03:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">secondly i seriously dougt that no matter how well we treated iragi prisoners, that they would return the favor.<span id='postcolor'>

Well that's really not the point is it, two wrongs don't make a right and all that, we're supposed to be the western world, we're supposed to act better than that, to treat people better than that.

If we treat terrorist prisoners badly then it will simply create yet more terrorists, if we treat them decently and someone sees that and they think "Hmm maybe they're not so bad after all" then one person stopped from growing up to be a terrorist is one more step towards a future were terrorism isn't a global concern

[Wobble 1]

Let's say you took part in a US military operation, that the other side decided to brand as terrorism

the intentional and planned murder of over 3000 innocent men women and children isnt 'branded' as anything.. it IS terrorism..

further more the method in which the Al-Queda prisoners were transported conforumed to the the terms set in the Geniva convention IN EVERY way..  

as for these people who say it was 'cruel'... well.... umm... fuck em.  they dont know cruel.

[red oct 2]

well said

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Yeah, I heard that Amnesty (sp?) International was complaining that the hand cuffs and the bags over the heads was unnecessary and in-humane. What a load of sh*t. They are criminals and they should be treated as such.

Tyler

[el Gringo Loco 1]

I don't know what all the nuisance is about, what I heard of Rumsfeld the prisoners are being treated accordingly to the rules set in the Geneva convention, even if it can be argued if you can call these murderers soldiers. So actually they are treated like real POWs. Amnesty should be concerned with the real human right problems in the world, like political prisoners in muslim states or child labour in India and Pakistan.

IMO those al-queda members are treated good enough (apart from the ones bombed to oblivion) and I have no problems with the fact that maybe they are going to be a little roughed up in order to extract more informations on Bin Laden.

I saw a very disturbing documentary on Discovery a couple of days before. I had to do with the 78 russian nuclear briefcase bombs which can't be found anymore. There were also some russian specialities who told there is a good likelihood that one of these days one or more of these briefcases will end up in the wrong hands. And with Bin Laden still on the loose, it doesn't look like a very good omen for the US. On the other hand I don't think that Bin Laden will be captured, despite the billions of extra funding the CIA, NSA, FBI received they are seemingly not making any progress in locating this piece of shit, which IMO is a very unsettling thought for the US citizens who still are forced to live in fear. Also the bulk of the al-queda members (80%) has fled to another country.

[foxer 0]

I saw a very disturbing documentary on Discovery a couple of days before. I had to do with the 78 russian nuclear briefcase bombs which can't be found anymore. There were also some russian specialities who told there is a good likelihood that one of these days one or more of these briefcases will end up in the wrong hands. And with Bin Laden still on the loose, it doesn't look like a very good omen for the US. On the other hand I don't think that Bin Laden will be captured, despite the billions of extra funding the CIA, NSA, FBI received they are seemingly not making any progress in locating this piece of shit, which IMO is a very unsettling thought for the US citizens who still are forced to live in fear. Also the bulk of the al-queda members (80%) has fled to another country.

i'am not scared of being in a nuke,because it would be soo fast,scared part would be ,to see one go off.

[Pete 1]

if "roughing up" means torture...u better rethink it.

even if the torture is used to find a nuke, and if the torturers (americans, in this case) arent trialed and sentenced for crimes of war for the torture...then it would only legalize torture for all nations.

torture is never acceptable.

and if usa decides to do it, it should find some volunteers who are willing to get trialed and sentenced as war criminals....

[el Gringo Loco 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @ Jan. 13 2002,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if "roughing up" means torture...u better rethink it.

even if the torture is used to find a nuke, and if the torturers (americans, in this case) arent trialed and sentenced for crimes of war for the torture...then it would only legalize torture for all nations.

torture is never acceptable.

and if usa decides to do it, it should find some volunteers who are willing to get trialed and sentenced as war criminals....<span id='postcolor'>

Ehhhh, not exactly torture like with electrodes stuck high up in your ass, I mean the occasional slap on the cheek to get a nice discussion going.

BTW

I have no problems with torturing these people mentally, like a little witheld sleep or some white noise or some stimulating drugs. Main goal is to get the animal locked up or shot if you will, so that the masterbrain of 11 september will not get off that easily this time. Sad thing tho' he'll become a martyr and people around the world will see it as their holy duty to revenge his death. So in other words it is a vicious cycle.

I feel sorry for the people, especially the americans who believed bush when he said that he's going to root out terrorism around the world, his mission seems to run out of steam right now because lack of accurate information. I'm afraid that within 10 years we will be sitting again chained to our tv-set wondering if we're looking at some new hollywood blockbuster when some mushroom cloud forms somewhere above a US city or people are falling down from some bio/chem. attack. Sad but true, the wheels are set in motion and it seems that the bandwagon is going downhill without breaks. I think people around the world, especially the US know by now that their governments can't protect them anymore (or they should do something about their political agenda abroad) so I think this is a war we're we need to go further than we ever have gone.

Also in europe attacks are being prepared and thankfully up till now uncovered in time by the authorities. There was also an attack planned on the EU building in brussels. I think we have to fight for a better future, and if the need is there to torture known terrorists or sympathizers than it should be that way!

You can call me shortsighted, but in this case I think we should make any effort to get rid of these animals.

[Pete 1]

i know what you mean, and what we have against us.

but the problem ís that if "we" do something morally wrong to others, we cant complain when the same is done to us.

osama and al-queda needs to be tracked down, but even if we get all of them, and all of todays terrorists.....nothing still prevents a new group of terrorists from rising up somewhere.

about the captured terrorists..they are not soldiers, and if they are sentenced to a life in prison (or death, but i dont support death penalties) it would be no problem, but torture..it would only let the world know that usa thinks it is acceptable, even with those methods u mentioned..it is still torture.

since these men are not soldiers, but more like criminals..it would mean that usa approves to torture of prisoners..and then how can we complain over china's violations of human rights for example?

usa will not use torture, they are not that stupid.

would torture be used, it should be inofficially done, by men who "break" the rules of its own goverment..and the goverment should sentence those men for committing war-crimes.

if torture is what it takes to save the lifes of millions..please do so, but also to prevent millions in prisons all over the world being tortured you need to punish the torturers according to the law.

i hope i make any sence.

about the terrorists that are still free...killing them all wont prevent the rise from future terrorists, for me it doesnt matter much what happens to them..the main important thing is to prevent a new terrorstrike, and to do that us. foreign policy needs to change radically.

[KingBeast 0]

As far as I know, only a very small amount of Bin Ladens closest friends new of the planning of Setp 11th, so i doubt that these few low level Al Quaeda people know anything about that.

So in reality these people may not have even done anything wrong at all (other than being part of Al Qaueda of course)

Of course im not sympathising with them, there were Nazis that didnt actually ever do anything, but that doesnt mean i wouldnt have kicked them in the nuts if I saw one

But anyway back to the point, I from BBC news, it would seem that because America has decided not to refer to these people as POWs, the Geneva convention does not apply whatsoever so I myself expect those people to be having a pretty rough time.

Though i wouldnt be surprised if the yanks just used a truth serum on them and got it over with

[Satchel 0]

I´m confident Al Queada prisoners will meet Mr. Psy Ops, CIA and other specially trained interrogation units. And i´m pretty sure that during the interrogation there is little room for exchanging polite small talk, AFAIK the complex is sealed off completely from every outside influence, so noone except those working there will know what happens to those prisoners. There are no names, exact numbers or anything about Al Queada prisoners flown in, so it won´t be easy to track if some of them magically dissapears during his stay there.

Edit:

Might i also add that the U.S. doesn´t categorize them as POW´s, but as suspects or criminals, so they´re not protected by normal means as a soldier would be when he´s fallen in enemy hands. Simple but effective way to justify whatever is going to be done to those prisoners.

[nordin dk 0]

Even though they might not be "oficially" tortured, you can bet your a** they will be.

And the whole points is, as placebo said, that two wrongs don't make a right. If you want to brand yourself as more human than the terrorists, dont terrorise them.

And I didn't say in my first post that 9/11 wasn't terrorism, although I can see it might come out that way, if you really want to put words in my mouth.

It's amazing how it's impossible for some people to see things from different viewpoints.

As for the killing of 3000 innocents....well, let's just say that the so called "civilized" western world isn't beyond this, and never has been. Can anybody say "Dresden"?

[Charlie_McSheenie 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @ Jan. 13 2002,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if "roughing up" means torture...u better rethink it.

even if the torture is used to find a nuke, and if the torturers (americans, in this case) arent trialed and sentenced for crimes of war for the torture...then it would only legalize torture for all nations.

torture is never acceptable.

and if usa decides to do it, it should find some volunteers who are willing to get trialed and sentenced as war criminals....<span id='postcolor'>

i personally don't care if we kick the shit out of them to get a bit of information. They're terrorists, and they probably treated the afghan people in a torturous fashion. Simply being human doesn't mean they should be spared from the same kind of thing they enjoyed so much while in power (remembering these people started massacring taliban people as well ).

Just like i wouldn't object to sending peadophiles to prisons were i know they'd get the shit kicked out of them every day they're locked up.

Its not like they're innocent, what do you think they wanted to do when they joined the al queda?

Most drug lords, peadophiles, rapists, petty theives etc... would have you believe they were tortured in some way by the police. Thats why when people go on a violent protest they whinge about being knocked over by riot police.

And no doubt many countries like china, russia, middle eastern countries... will be happy to torture people in search of info. (and no doubt many people in our o so great countries will think about it as well ).

I think most people would understand the US torturing people to find out the location of a nuke or find out the next terrorist targets or something. Of course minority groups will protest but what the fuck do they know?

I think terrorists, as terrorists, should if neccessary be subjected to torture if its the only way to get information.

So it'll fuel hatred towards the US in the middle east, who cares. Bush needs to fart or smile to have some minor ass middle eastern faction declare jihad on his devil country.

But thats just imho

[Pete 1]

i think you missed my point ruskie.....

i wouldnt care less if you hang the al-gueda dudes by the balls..i have no problem what so ever, they are scum.

BUT...if the most (supposedly) civiliced nation does that to its prisoners, if the worlds most powerfull nation violates human rights...it looses its argument when saying that other nations should not torture prisoners..political prisoners, or just petty thiefs who stole candy.

look at the new soon-to-be-a-war between pakistan and india, you think india would have threatened with war after a terrorstrike if not usa had pawed the way first and made it clear that it can be done for that reason.

the reason WE cant torture is becouse WE are supposed to set an example for others to follow, WE need to have a moral upperhand when telling others to stop it.

as i said....if use wants to use torture, the torturers should be prepared to face trial and sentence for doing that...i am sure that in a nation where u find so many people ready to kill and die for there country u find some who are ready to torture and sit in a prison (without honor) for there country.

the thing is..WE cant be allowed to do what WE want to stop others from doing...if in your opinion USA is allowed to torture these men, and if usa does so and gets away with it, then you should also be prepared that if your dad (who is military) gets caught by the enemy can and will be "legally" tortured without any possible punishment to the torturers.

look at the wider scale picture.

if the stakes are this high....usa better find volunteers willing to spend a long time in prison for trying to get the information by torture.

torture is not acceptable...and if it is used as a last resort, the torturers still need to be punished.

[red oct 2]

if you just killed all the terrorists there wouldnt be a problem

[Wobble 1]

define 'torture'.. you cant..

because what is torture varies from country to country, person to person.. some of the moronic assholes from UC berkley and such consider almsot ANYTHING besides giving someone a bubble bath as torture.. while some countries in the middle east consider breaking fingers and such a perfectly acceptable form of interroagation...

ahh theres the word.. INTERROGATION..

is interrogation torture? well what kind? how? to who?

aside from VERY VERY VERY extreme acts of brutality you cant really say "this is offically torture"

they way I see it as long as you do not cause any long term (month +) damaging physical or mental problems to the person you are interrogating then it is not torture.. but thats just me, there are people who will be on VERY VERY different sides of that..

similar to what I said before.. if someone thinks that sitting some murder down under a hot light for a few hours asking the questions is torture.. fucke em... they dont know what torture is..

you want to see cut and dry torture.. rear about some of the 'interrogations' given to captured russian soldiers by Chechen rebles.. I would ask ask a formerly captured russian soldier but I doubt there are many alive, as most chechen interrogations ended in decapitation.

[red oct 2]

.. I would ask ask a formerly captured russian soldier but I doubt there are many alive, as most chechen interrogations ended in decapitation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i would think it would be viceversa as most chechens dont really take prisoners. in russia, police brutatlity is a common practice. ever watch some of those "worlds scariest police chases"? it showed russian police doing a raid on some mafia guys, before they put them in cuffs they pummled them to the ground and gave in a few kicks than escorted them to the car

[red oct 2]

for mindless entertainment relating to this topic go

Here

[Longinius 1]

1. What right does America have bringing those guys to Cuba to start with? Aren't they POW's?

2. Isn't it illegal to keep prisoncamps like the one on Cuba, where prisoners are exposed to the elements like that?

3. Do you really think all Taliban soldiers are terrorists, or even knew about WTC? If you do, you are truly stupid.

Its all utter crap and a big setback for international law and human rights. Again, the biggest guy on the block does whatever he damn pleases.

As for defining torture, it is rather simple. Any action deviced to do physical or mental harm to a defenseless person(s) is torture.

[foxer 0]

You people seem to forgeting people don't go to afghanistan for a fun week off.They go there to train and learn how to make bombs and kill people.I really doubt any of these prisoners will get the shit kick outta them,i think they are just going get mind rape.

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. What right does America have bringing those guys to Cuba to start with? Aren't they POW's?

2. Isn't it illegal to keep prisoncamps like the one on Cuba, where prisoners are exposed to the elements like that?

3. Do you really think all Taliban soldiers are terrorists, or even knew about WTC? If you do, you are truly stupid.

Its all utter crap and a big setback for international law and human rights. Again, the biggest guy on the block does whatever he damn pleases.

As for defining torture, it is rather simple. Any action deviced to do physical or mental harm to a defenseless person(s) is torture.<span id='postcolor'>

1. i believe there classified as "detianies" not P.O.w.'s

2. No and they do have shelter

3. It depends

whats with the crap on everybody accusing or suggesting my country on torture? we aint torturing nobody, the only time it would ever be acceptable if there was a scenairo were a nuke was hidden somewhere in a densely populated city (new york for example) and the only person who knew where it was located was a single captured terrorist. But that kinda thing is unlikely.