human rights for the al-queda terrorists

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 15 2002,23:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well i think its sick for anyone to want to watch a man be killed live on television. Sick enough to warant needing help, no matter who the guy getting executed was.

That kind of thing might have been all the rage in the middle ages but it has no place in todays society.<span id='postcolor'>

Are you telling me, you would not watch a gladiator battle?

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am pro-death penalty.  It costs way too much to keep someone for life, especially when they get older.  The costs are astronomical.<span id='postcolor'>

This is sickening. It makes me miserable to see that kind of comment.

What kind of pricetag are you setting on somebodys' life?

Where do you draw the line?

50.000$ 1 Million $?

How much is your life worth?

Do you truly believe that it helps, if you act in the same way as the guy, whose actions you condemn?

Oh God, the logic is so simple.

[Guest]

I probably wouldn't watch the execution. I might watch a gladiator battle. See? That's called freedom of choice. I don't watch stupid ass sitcoms either, but you don't see me complaining about them or making judgements on people who watch them (i.e. that they are sick). Just change the channel. Or better yet, turn off the set.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nordin dk @ Jan. 15 2002,13:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is sickening. It makes me miserable to see that kind of comment.

What kind of pricetag are you setting on somebodys' life?

Where do you draw the line?

50.000$ 1 Million $?

How much is your life worth?

Do you truly believe that it helps, if you act in the same way as the guy, whose actions you condemn?

Oh God, the logic is so simple.

<span id='postcolor'>

Someone walks into your house and rapes your 3 month old son to death. Does that person deserve to die?

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is sickening. It makes me miserable to see that kind of comment.

What kind of pricetag are you setting on somebodys' life?

Where do you draw the line?

50.000$ 1 Million $?

How much is your life worth?

Do you truly believe that it helps, if you act in the same way as the guy, whose actions you condemn?

Oh God, the logic is so simple.

<span id='postcolor'>

Someone walks into your house and rapes your 3 month old son to death.  Does that person deserve to die?<span id='postcolor'>

There and then I probably would have killed him if I could. Genereally speaking I still believe it's the society who should do the punishment.

[DVII 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OBiJuan @ Jan. 15 2002,23:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is sickening. It makes me miserable to see that kind of comment.

What kind of pricetag are you setting on somebodys' life?

Where do you draw the line?

50.000$ 1 Million $?

How much is your life worth?

Do you truly believe that it helps, if you act in the same way as the guy, whose actions you condemn?

Oh God, the logic is so simple.

<span id='postcolor'>

Someone walks into your house and rapes your 3 month old son to death.  Does that person deserve to die?<span id='postcolor'>

yes.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Jan. 15 2002,13:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There and then I probably would have killed him if I could. Genereally speaking I still believe it's the society who should do the punishment.<span id='postcolor'>

You mean like mob lynching?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Someone walks into your house and rapes your 3 month old son to death.  Does that person deserve to die?<span id='postcolor'>

yes.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, some people seem to think that keeping them in prison for the rest of their lives, costing taxpayers $50,000 a year and likely $100,000 a year when they get older is the answer.  Because their life is "worth something."

Frankly, THAT kind of thinking sickens me.

[DVII 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OBiJuan @ Jan. 15 2002,23:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There and then I probably would have killed him if I could. Genereally speaking I still believe it's the society who should do the punishment.<span id='postcolor'>

You mean like mob lynching?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes some good ol' mob lynchin!

Hang him at the highest tree

If someone really comittes a crime like raping a 3 month year old kid then i wouldn't mind him being lynched by such a mob.

[KingBeast 0]

Talk like this reminds of a quote from the Lord of The Rings book, concerning Gollum.

goes something like

"There are those that deserve life and those that deserve death. You cannot give life to those who are dead, so what gives us the right to give death to those who deserve it?"

The quote is not exactly like that, but i cannot be bothered to page through the book and find it

But it is pretty much what i wrote.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 15 2002,13:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Talk like this reminds of a quote from the Lord of The Rings book, concerning Gollum.

goes something like

"There are those that deserve life and those that deserve death. You cannot give life to those who are dead, so what gives us the right to give death to those who deserve it?"

The quote is not exactly like that, but i cannot be bothered to page through the book and find it

But it is pretty much what i wrote.<span id='postcolor'>

I think it's great that you feel that way, but I like to have more substance in my reasoning. I can't see how Lord of the Rings reasoning applies in the real world. I can't pinpoint it, but there's some kind of fallacy happening there.

[DVII 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 15 2002,23:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Talk like this reminds of a quote from the Lord of The Rings book, concerning Gollum.

goes something like

"There are those that deserve life and those that deserve death. You cannot give life to those who are dead, so what gives us the right to give death to those who deserve it?"

The quote is not exactly like that, but i cannot be bothered to page through the book and find it

But it is pretty much what i wrote.<span id='postcolor'>

Kingbeast what gives a criminal the right to take life?

I believe that (if possible) the criminal should experience the same thing the victim did. That is the only way for the criminal to learn what he did.

[KingBeast 0]

So you think rapists should be raped as a punishment? :|

2 wrongs dont make a right and I dont understand why so few people on this forum understand that.

And as for the quote, yes it may be from a fictional book written probably over 50 years ago, but if you fail to see the logic within that quote then I guess theres no point in me going on.

We (society) have come a long long way from the days where execution was very common and was used as entertainment for the peasants. Why bother taking steps backward?

[Satchel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well i think its sick for anyone to want to watch a man be killed live on television well unless you are very sick person you wouldent watch it just to 'watch a man be killed' but for closure..  what he did effected LOTS of people in a very big way, and seeing justace done oftin helps people 'move along' in life..

I dont think I would watch it though..<span id='postcolor'>

In over 100 years of american history over 8000 suspects had been executed, lowest age for death penalty candidates 16 years in some states.

All executions, even when broadcasted, couldn´t prevent further crimes from happening; for the year 2000 U.S. population was 281,421,906 with 15,517 cases of murder, 90,186 cases of rape, 407,842 cases of armed robbery and 910,744 cases of armed assaults.  

Put this all in a pot and you get 1.424.289 cases of severe criminality, 1/16 of them making the death penalty applicable, but not always executed because suspects couldn´t be caught, unsoved crimes and death penalties that had been  changed to life time prison, note this is only for a single year.

So according to these statistics the Death penalty has no real effect or use, other than "you did bad" "we do bad to you in return"...a basic human emotion for revenge. Besides those directly affected by someone that is going to get executed, there is a much greater audience watching for the morbid fascination when an execution is broadcasted, you know those people staring and standing in the way hindering rescue operations when a traffic accident occured, same stuff.

Personally i think the U.S. is way behind most other western states when it comes to justice, social and economical belongings.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 15 2002,14:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you think rapists should be raped as a punishment? :|

2 wrongs dont make a right and I dont understand why so few people on this forum understand that.

And as for the quote, yes it may be from a fictional book written probably over 50 years ago, but if you fail to see the logic within that quote then I guess theres no point in me going on.

We (society) have come a long long way from the days where execution was very common and was used as entertainment for the peasants. Why bother taking steps backward?<span id='postcolor'>

THe problem with the quote from LOTR:

There are those that deserve life and those that deserve death. You cannot give life to those who are dead, so what gives us the right to give death to those who deserve it?"

The first sentence is fine.

The first part of second sentence is stating something obvious.

The second part of the second sentence jumps to a conclusion without giving sufficient arguments.

That is a SLIPPERY SLOPE, I believe. It's like saying: "If I make an exception for you then I have to make an exception for everyone."

Here's the link to where I found the example: Stephens Fallacies

That's why I can't see the logic in your quote. It's nonsense.

[DVII 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 16 2002,00:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you think rapists should be raped as a punishment? :|<span id='postcolor'>

If a girl or kid is raped they are marked for life, do you realize that? Most criminals don't care about it and many would do it again if they could. Keeping them in prison will just move the next crime(rape) till they get out of jail.

[Guest]

Satchel - I didn't know they had broadcast executions in past. Where can I find that info?

Also, c'mon - there have been 8,000 executions in 100 years and then you give stats of 89,018.0625 executable crimes a year. Let's see: that's 8,901,806.25 in 100 years. Only 8,000 executed? That's a 1 in 1,112 chance of being executed for commiting a crime that is covered by execution. That's a bad ratio.

If you told me I had a 1 in 1,000 chance of something happening to me, I'd laugh it off too.

We need to up that ratio to decide if executions deter crime or not.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DVII @ Jan. 16 2002,00:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There and then I probably would have killed him if I could. Genereally speaking I still believe it's the society who should do the punishment.<span id='postcolor'>

You mean like mob lynching?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes some good ol' mob lynchin!

Hang him at the highest tree    

If someone really comittes a crime like raping  a 3 month year old kid then i wouldn't mind him being lynched by such a mob.<span id='postcolor'>

Why do we have a law system???

If you were supposed to do the judging yourself you could just as well move to afghanistan or any other country where you could do whatever you wish.

[KingBeast 0]

Yes i realise that, but by your logic the criminal should get what his victim got. But how does that solve anything?

If for example someone tortures and the kills another person, should the criminal then be tortured and killed?

How is creating more evil and suffering ever going to sovle anything.

And no im not excusing rapists or murderers or anything like that, and anyone to accuse me of such a thing is narrow minded indeed.

All im saying is, as i keep saying. TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE A RIGHT

"Do unto others as you would have them do to yourself"

okay now look at this quote. Criminals/sickos dont abide by this. Good "normal" people usually do.

So, when we start making up rules and treating people bad (ie this is relating not only to our current discussion but also to the thread topic) we are crossing that line.

[DVII 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Jan. 16 2002,00:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There and then I probably would have killed him if I could. Genereally speaking I still believe it's the society who should do the punishment.<span id='postcolor'>

You mean like mob lynching?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes some good ol' mob lynchin!

Hang him at the highest tree    

If someone really comittes a crime like raping  a 3 month year old kid then i wouldn't mind him being lynched by such a mob.<span id='postcolor'>

Why do we have a law system???

If you were supposed to do the judging yourself you could just as well move to afghanistan or any other country where you could do whatever you wish.<span id='postcolor'>

Good idea! I didn't like it around here anyways! LOL

If the crime has been proven the mob can have him. They should not kill someone whose quilt has not been proven.

Sorry if i wasn't clear about that.

[DVII 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 16 2002,00:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes i realise that, but by your logic the criminal should get what his victim got. But how does that solve anything?

If for example someone tortures and the kills another person, should the criminal then be tortured and killed?

How is creating more evil and suffering ever going to sovle anything.

And no im not excusing rapists or murderers or anything like that, and anyone to accuse me of such a thing is narrow minded indeed.

All im saying is, as i keep saying. TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE A RIGHT

"Do unto others as you would have them do to yourself"

okay now look at this quote. Criminals/sickos dont abide by this. Good "normal" people usually do.

So, when we start making up rules and treating people bad (ie this is relating not only to our current discussion but also to the thread topic) we are crossing that line.<span id='postcolor'>

There is some truth in what you say but i still stand behind my opinion.

Altough i don't like killing the criminal imediatly, it doesn't punish him, it frees him.

[Guest]

TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT.

That is a true statement.

But you first have to accept that capital punishment is wrong. Where's your proof for this? So far you are "begging the question":

Q: Is the Death Penalty is wrong?

If YES, then why?

If NO, then why?

Right now, your answer is "yes, it's wrong, because two wrongs don't make a right."

C'mon, you can do better than that!

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 16 2002,01:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes i realise that, but by your logic the criminal should get what his victim got. But how does that solve anything?

If for example someone tortures and the kills another person, should the criminal then be tortured and killed?

How is creating more evil and suffering ever going to sovle anything.

And no im not excusing rapists or murderers or anything like that, and anyone to accuse me of such a thing is narrow minded indeed.

All im saying is, as i keep saying. TWO WRONGS DONT MAKE A RIGHT

"Do unto others as you would have them do to yourself"

okay now look at this quote. Criminals/sickos dont abide by this. Good "normal" people usually do.

So, when we start making up rules and treating people bad (ie this is relating not only to our current discussion but also to the thread topic) we are crossing that line.<span id='postcolor'>

There is one difference.

Criminals have the choice of committing the crime, or not. If they commit the crime, they should be very aware of the consequences.

But when these bastards DO commit their crimes, they give the victims no choice at all.

I agree that summary execution is unnacceptable; even one mistake is one too many. but when the case is cut and dried, why prolong a life that doesn't give a shit about taking others?

[KingBeast 0]

Well the Death Penalty isnt right because its "inhumane"

And its a lack of freedom, the Government decide who gets killed and who doesnt. Not the family or friends of the berived.

No one has any right whatsoever to dish out death like it was a tasty dish.

What does it achieve, other than killnig someone? Absolutely bugger all. And people on death row arent even encessarily evil people that deserve death. Im sure many of them are but not all of them.

You always give the situation of "If your son got murdered would you want the perpetrator to fry etc"

But what if your dad killed some people. Or your mum. Not because they were evil, but because they felt it needed to be done, or for whatever reason. And take into fact these people arent psycho and dont have a case that can get them off of death row

Would you sit back, hands behind your head and say

"Cya mum, cya dad. The death penalty is right, you guys deserve to fry"

Not likely guvnor...

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DVII @ Jan. 16 2002,01:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There and then I probably would have killed him if I could. Genereally speaking I still believe it's the society who should do the punishment.<span id='postcolor'>

You mean like mob lynching?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes some good ol' mob lynchin!

Hang him at the highest tree    

If someone really comittes a crime like raping  a 3 month year old kid then i wouldn't mind him being lynched by such a mob.<span id='postcolor'>

Why do we have a law system???

If you were supposed to do the judging yourself you could just as well move to afghanistan or any other country where you could do whatever you wish.<span id='postcolor'>

Good idea!  I didn't like it around here anyways! LOL

If the crime has been proven the mob can have him. They should not kill someone whose quilt has not been proven.

Sorry if i wasn't clear about that.<span id='postcolor'>

I strongly believe criminal offenses should be treated by societies institutions like courtsystems and prisons (excluding death penalty).

About this thread - It's strange that the hole of Nato was involved because of an "act of war". During this campaign it has always been a "war against terrorism" and the "war in Afghanistan. Why then do the US deny the prisoners the status as a prisoner of war?