Religion

[denoir 0]

What I meant is what if there are entire sense's we are missing and cannot possibly comprehend because we lack them

That's interesting, say we never had hearing, we wouldn't know that we missed it and if we found out we missed it, it'd be pretty much impossible to understand it enough to be able to build something to compensate for it.

Hardly. The same way we can't sense EM waves, but can compensate for it with technology. If we didn't have hearing, we would have instruments that measure sound waves and represent them in some for us sensable way.

The senses that we have mean shit. It's just the output format. The input can be anything and is not limited to our human physiology.

[BraTTy 0]

I chose other but I am more scientific about it,until I see some proof.( I live by a motto: believe nothing you hear and half of what you see )

I think in the past most of our people needed to follow something and needed the book to explain some things that are unexplainable.

I do not need to follow things and I help myself rather than asking some unknown for help.

[Harnu 0]

What I meant is what if there are entire sense's we are missing and cannot possibly comprehend because we lack them

That's interesting, say we never had hearing, we wouldn't know that we missed it and if we found out we missed it, it'd be pretty much impossible to understand it enough to be able to build something to compensate for it.

Hardly. The same way we can't sense EM waves, but can compensate for it with technology. If we didn't have hearing, we would have instruments that measure sound waves and represent them in some for us sensable way.

The senses that we have mean shit. It's just the output format. The input can be anything and is not limited to our human physiology.

Yes, we may have ways of bringing things we know and cannot sense and bring them to be displayed to us in ways we can understand. We may be able to compensate, but reading a meter is no the same as having the sense, having something other than five senses we have.

[iNeo 0]

What I meant is what if there are entire sense's we are missing and cannot possibly comprehend because we lack them

That's interesting, say we never had hearing, we wouldn't know that we missed it and if we found out we missed it, it'd be pretty much impossible to understand it enough to be able to build something to compensate for it.

Hardly. The same way we can't sense EM waves, but can compensate for it with technology. If we didn't have hearing, we would have instruments that measure sound waves and represent them in some for us sensable way.

ok hearing was the worst sense I could pick as an example.

What if we didn't have eyes? We wouldn't be aware of "vision," and if we were, how would we be able to create something to compensate for it? Same goes for taste, feeling. Imagine there's one more such thing, one that we don't know of.

+ what Harnu said.

[denoir 0]

What if we didn't have eyes? We wouldn't be aware of "vision," and if we were, how would we be able to create something to compensate for it? Same goes for taste, feeling. Imagine there's one more such thing, one that we don't know of.

Perhaps I havn't explained it properly.

There are plenty of examples of things we can't sense in any way. Take radio waves for example. There's nothing in our body we can detect them with, but we have had no problems through technology compensate for our biological shortcomings. We can detect them and use them, although we are not in any way biologically aware of them.

How? Because we can detect their interaction with the physical world and we can use that interaction to detect them and manipulate with them.

The same goes with everything else. If it is interacting, then that very same interaction can be utilized to detect it. If it's not interacting in any way, then it's hardly relevant in any way.

Suppose that we all were blind. How would we detect color? Well, for instance, we'd soon realize that when heated different object emit different amount of heat (something that depends on the color) - and we would recognize that difference and we would be able to map colors, although we never would have experienced them first hand.

Which brings us to the brain. We're learning more and more about it and we have a decent understanding of the basic operating principles. If there was some form of external interference, some influence that we couldn't account for, then we'd have to investigate, analyze and explain it. Since we would be able to detect its effects (if there were no effects, then it would be irrelevant), we could deduce its cause.

Your thoughts, your beleifs, your sense of self are a bunch of bio-electrical impulses in the wetware in your brain. We're constantly learning more about it and sooner or later we will be able to make an exact mapping of the brain's signals to your thoughts (to some limited extent possible already today). In short, we will sooner or later know exactly how the brain works - the same way we know exactly how your muscles work. Therefor it would be no biggie to detect any external influence, by its effects - regardless if we can sense it directly or not.

If it has no effects on anything whatsoever, then it's not part in any way of our physical reality and hence pretty much irrelevant. I don't think any religion would be pleased with a god that can't interact with the world in any way and that's not detectable in any way.

[Donnervogel 0]

Quote[/b] ]Atheism is defined by disbelief in or dening of the existence of god(s). It can be both. Without believing in god there is no sense to have faith in god too. I don't understand how one can see it as "failure" - "failre" has a devaluating touch but how can it be a failure (in the sense of not noticing the obvious) to not believe in something that is nothing more a theory?

By definition, it has nothing to do with actively denying the existence of gods. The word people should use for someone who denies the existence of gods, should be something like "anti-theist".

uhmm well it should maybe be anti-theists but those people generally counted as atheist too. Every definition that I found in credible sources states that atheism inculdes those that actively deny the existence of god.

Quote[/b] ]The reason I used the word "failure", is because most people seem to be theists.

Still failure is IMHO a totally wrong term for it.

Quote[/b] ]I agree, but faith and ideology are not really related.

Well that's only because you seem to view a religion as something special. I don't. Religion is just a philosophy IMHO. Some religions have lots of followers and therefore develop code of conducts for everyday life and make institutions. These things make it easier for normal people to follow the religous principles and help administrating it. But for me those things have nothing to do with the religion itself. And faith is just a strong conviction that the philosphy of one's religion is the true one - without being able to objectively prove it.

For me the concept of faith is what I find repellent about the most religions. It contradicts with everything I have learnt in my humanistic education.

[russin 0]

Satan Rules this Earth

really not at all relgious it is all Fake biggest scam ever

[Colossus 2]

I will agree with John Lennon (in his song) on this, atheism.

I would say that religion, at first, was in a way to explane why things are as they are.

And I have seen that religion, is in many cases, the reason for war, racism and persecution.

But that doesn't mean there are good things in religion.

Whatever people belive in I'll repect what they belive, as long as they are humain and repect one and other.

EDIT: *deleted some here*

Btw.

Religion

List of religions (sub-belives)

[Tovarish 0]

I'm an insomniac-dyslexic-agnostic: I lie awake all night wondering if there really is a dog

[Ares1978 0]

uhmm well it should maybe be anti-theists but those people generally counted as atheist too. Every definition that I found in credible sources states that atheism inculdes those that actively deny the existence of god.

Well, you can't really be an antitheist without also being an atheist, can you? But not all atheists are antitheists. When it comes to atheism, there aren't many "credible" sources that have gotten it right. Almost every dictionary out there tries to squeeze a definition into a single short sentence anyway.

Quote[/b] ]Still failure is IMHO a totally wrong term for it.

Then you fail to see that I wrote it the way a believer might see it.  

Quote[/b] ]Well that's only because you seem to view a religion as something special. I don't. Religion is just a philosophy IMHO. Some religions have lots of followers and therefore develop code of conducts for everyday life and make institutions. These things make it easier for normal people to follow the religous principles and help administrating it. But for me those things have nothing to do with the religion itself. And faith is just a strong conviction that the philosphy of one's religion is the true one - without being able to objectively prove it.

I would rather categorize it as a mental illness than as a philosophy. A religion obviously has a philosophy, but faith is not a philosophy. You said it yourself, it's just a strong conviction without proof. Faith in higher powers is devoid of reason.

[TabloMaxos 0]

First of all I read all users opinions and I am not here to flame anyone nor to offend anyones religion(If something offends you please tell me to delete it)

I am Christian Orthodox and a part of Greek Orthodox Church.(I am not a very religious guy though)

@denoir

Quote[/b] ]Then we could see for instance that people who pray to the "right God" have longer, better lives etc

I will give you an example:

In Mount Athos monks(Hermites) leave only with pray.They don't have our "needs" they only need God so thier life with all their needs complete is a better life.

As for us the ordinary people difficulties are trials (or test dunno which word fits here better) but we always overcome them with our faith.

@thunderbird84

Quote[/b] ]The religon was always a source of problems

Actually religion is the solution of most of the problems.

There are some people who use religion as an exsuse for their wars.

Quote[/b] ]...while the Christian poor bastards live a comfortable life to spend an eternity in hell.

About "Christian poor bastards" such us me ,we always can do something to change it,so we could not "spend an eternity in hell".

Quote[/b] ]Is god ominpotent?

I don't understand this question(ominpotent <-don't know what it means sorry)

Quote[/b] ]Does man have free will?

Yes,and this is a proof that God loves man.

@kerosene

Quote[/b] ]Why does god need us to believe in him, shouldnt people be judged on their actions rather than the ceremonies they took part in?

Actually you are judged on your action,but going to church help you.It is not a man who goes to church who will be saved but the one who does the right thing.

Quote[/b] ]Unless your a convert later in life, your religon is chosen by your parents and the society your born into, you get no say in it, and yet people can be positive that there religon is the correct one

You are correct here I agree ,maybe if I was born in other country I would be some other religion.

@nephilim

Quote[/b] ]religion is the worst thing ever wot happen to mankind...

wot did it brought us?

nothing but sorrows pain suffering and fanatism

You forgot love,caring for each other,chance for eternal life

Quote[/b] ]but aswell of christs.

remember the crusades?

Once again I say:

There are some people who use religion as an exsuse for their war.

PS>Man has given free will to decide which is wrong and good and his conscience to help him.

Sorry for the long post

[FireflyPL 0]

religion is the worst thing ever wot happen to mankind...

What makes you think that?

wot did it brought us?

nothing but sorrows pain suffering and fanatism

You either dont know anything about religions or you are just prejudiced to it. I m not sure which one is worse.

remember the crusades?

Sure I do. But if its your only argument then you have really poor knowledge. Besides, do you remember what was before crusades and what was crusades goal?

they´re not better a dime

Of course not. Religion is priceless, money is worthless

[nephilim 0]

Quote[/b] ]I used to think the same, but religion meant a lot to people in the past. Christianity and Islam's ways to force their beliefs upon others are the worst thing... But there were religions before them that revolved more around nature and your own people, they never wanted to spread and they didn't.

yeah my words

specailly these forms are bad... (no offense towards people)

Quote[/b] ]@nephilim

religion is the worst thing ever wot happen to mankind...

wot did it brought us?

nothing but sorrows pain suffering and fanatism

You forgot love,caring for each other,chance for eternal life

HAHAHAHAHA

i feel pitty for anyone believing this crap:P

well love is another thing

just a thought:

anyone who talks a bout charing and eternal live is a maggot anyway (not u TabloMaxos personally more general)

its only empty words, they talk much but dotn do nothing

do u think they´ll give money to a beggar on the side walk?

or help a refugee woman with her baby on her arm braggign for money?

no

they just pass by pretending not to have noticed them

and those people are who talk about charity?

charity for their own pockets maybe!

it just makes me sick about them

or another thing

an aunt of mine is a very strict catholic..

on day at christmas we got into discussion about religion

she stated that our (christian) belive is so caring, warm

bla bla bla and mutilated other relgions..

can soem be that blind and screwed into something??

she didnt even know the bible really good anyway

example

when (as the bible states) noha was left on his ship during the flood

how did they populated the earth again?

right they had to fuck with each other

but doesnt the bible restrict incest??

and speaking of sexuality

if sex is such a dirty thing how should humans populate?

god would be pretty buisy then...

well my aunt aswered that thats one of the big secrets

in our (katholic) religion

bullshit it is if u ask me

the bible is a story nothing else

from past times where poeple coudlnt explain wots going on...

i hope u see my point of view now

i dont belive in anything that is soo fictional thats how it is

but it dont mean i dotn believe in anything

i still belive in myself and my bf

and that gives me strength

not an weird form of hollow words...

cheers

[nephilim 0]

firefly look

i come form a strict background

just like u i was born in poland (well ur polish as i see from ur sig)

so i know wot im talking about

Quote[/b] ]What makes you think that?

why? cant u see wot happens rightnow?

b4 it was the christians who wanted to christianise

because they meant that katholism/evangelism

is the ONLY TRUE religion

sure that it wasnt the only reason for the crusades

i dont say that

but i know that there have been massacres, slaughters

done by crusade knights in the name of GOD

now the same thign happens to the islam in a way

well both religions have a very fundametalistic and intolerant vein

and that what bothers me most

Quote[/b] ]Of course not. Religion is priceless, money is worthless

really?

well in the old days u were a bigger beliver if u payed more.

if u couldnt pay the church u´d burn in hell

also religion isnt so priceless as u think

if u want to belong to the church

(at least its os in germany)

u need to pay taxes

if u dotn pay taxes, ur not in church anymore

>consquence

u cant marry (well in church)

but i dotn want to insult people

belive wot u  want its a free world

at least it seems so:P

[nSe7eN 0]

I smell national and religious agenda for some people in this forum! It’s a gaming forum u know!

Many others used the religion as an excuse! And I only see the crusades as an example here! Just wondering who pushed them to do that!

Al Qaeda is a good example for some group or organization that used the religion as an excuse! Religion is so weak anyone can use for away or another to achieve his goals, science is the only thing responsible for this period of the freedom and advanced civilization religion was some sort of block in front of that sometimes!

I think religion started when human noticed some unexplainable nature or above nature activity in there time so they needed an explanation and when there current level of knowledge cant offered such an explanation they started with there mumbling thoughts and now you have A religion!

Saw many polls like this one before and it’s the first I post in one of them!

[TabloMaxos 0]

Quote[/b] ]just a thought:

anyone who talks a bout charing and eternal live is a maggot anyway (not u TabloMaxos personally more general)

its only empty words, they talk much but dotn do nothing

do u think they´ll give money to a beggar on the side walk?

or help a refugee woman with her baby on her arm braggign for money?

no

they just pass by pretending not to have noticed them

and those people are who talk about charity?

charity for their own pockets maybe!

it just makes me sick about them

That makes me sick too.Bragging makes me sick too.I see some people giving money only if someone else sees them.

"Your left hand shouldn't know what your right hand gives"(Free translation).

Anyone can help anyway they can.We will all be judged at the end for our actions that's the only thing that is sure.

Aslo I don't try to make anyone "believer" nor "I am here to save you all",I am just a maggot who believes that life doesn't end with death.

If you want more answer on Religious topics you can always visit a priest and I am sure that they will help you.

Quote[/b] ]Of course not. Religion is priceless, money is worthless

That the best thing I have read in this topic

Well done FireflyPL

[Ares1978 0]

Quote[/b] ]Does man have free will?

Yes,and this is a proof that God loves man.

How is that proof that god loves man? I think it's proof that he (if he/she/it exists) hates man.

Besides, I haven't yet seen anything that would prove that free will is nothing more than an illusion.

Quote[/b] ]You forgot love,caring for each other,chance for eternal life

You don't need religion for that. Those things existed before religion and they will exist after it.

[nSe7eN 0]

Quote[/b] ]You forgot love,caring for each other,chance for eternal life

You don't need religion for that. Those things existed before religion and they will exist after it.

That’s a good point!

Unreligious people are not evil as you think they are just open minded!

Religion either organized that or encouraged followers to do it.

And such things exist long before religion!

Religion is conflicting with many of our humanistic or scientific needs!

Now you need to choose! ;)

[kerosene 0]

Many others used the religion as an excuse! And I only see the crusades as an example here! Just wondering who pushed them to do that!

The Crusades were largley pushed by the Vatican as a way to stop European Christians fighting each other and direct their energies towards murdering non-christians. Protecting pilgrims in the holy land was a bit of a false pretext, most people who went to fight, went so they could steal or because they were forced to because they lived in a feudal society.

If there is a god I dont think he hates man, I think hes probably indifferent to man.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]Is god ominpotent?

I don't understand this question(ominpotent <-don't know what it means sorry)

Quote[/b] ]Does man have free will?

Yes,and this is a proof that God loves man.

Omnipotent = Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.

And according to Christianity, god is omnipotent. And as you said, according to Christianity, man has free will.

Those two statements are in logical contradiction. If god is all-powerful, he knows everything; including the future. He knows exactly what you will do, in ten minutes, in one day or in 10 years. If it is possible to know now exactly what happens in the future, then the future is already determined, Then you have no free will. God knows what you will do, before you make a choice. Since your future is already determined, so are the choices you will make and hence you have no free will.

And without any free will, I'm afraid most of Christian dogma falls. If everything is pre-determined, then you can't change in any way; there's no repentance, there's no personal responsibility etc

That's just one simple example of the internal lack of logic of most religions that are based on ancient dogma.

[Colossus 2]

Quote[/b] ]You forgot love,caring for each other,chance for eternal life

You don't need religion for that. Those things existed before religion and they will exist after it.

That’s a good point!

Unreligious people are not evil as you think they are just open minded!

Religion either organized that or encouraged followers to do it.

And such things exist long before religion!

Religion is conflicting with many of our humanistic or scientific needs!

Now you need to choose! ;)

I agree, you really don't need a religion to love.

I really don't see why a atheist is an evil person.

Think of me for example, I have the same ethics and moral as a religious person.

I don't kill/murder, kidnap, rape, steal nor adultery.

To be humain is enought to keep peace.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

Quote[/b] ]Those two statements are in logical contradiction. If god is all-powerful, he knows everything; including the future. He knows exactly what you will do, in ten minutes, in one day or in 10 years. If it is possible to know now exactly what happens in the future, then the future is already determined, Then you have no free will. God knows what you will do, before you make a choice. Since your future is already determined, so are the choices you will make and hence you have no free will.

Free will means that man can choose to follow God, or not to do so. God cannot make up your mind, even though he knows what you'll do.

[sanctuary 19]

Quote[/b] ]Is god ominpotent?

I don't understand this question(ominpotent <-don't know what it means sorry)

Quote[/b] ]Does man have free will?

Yes,and this is a proof that God loves man.

Omnipotent = Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.

And according to Christianity, god is omnipotent. And as you said, according to Christianity, man has free will.

Those two statements are in logical contradiction. If god is all-powerful, he knows everything; including the future. He knows exactly what you will do, in ten minutes, in one day or in 10 years. If it is possible to know now exactly what happens in the future, then the future is already determined, Then you have no free will. God knows what you will do, before you make a choice. Since your future is already determined, so are the choices you will make and hence you have no free will.

And without any free will, I'm afraid most of Christian dogma falls. If everything is pre-determined, then you can't change in any way; there's no repentance, there's no personal responsibility etc

That's just one simple example of the internal lack of logic of most religions that are based on ancient dogma.

Contradiction ? where ?

According to the majority of faith in Him, God is omnipotent, God knows the beginning and the end of the story.

When a human takes a decision, God knows already what decision he will take. But God will not take the decision for you.

That is where the concept of free will come in.

When a human makes a prayer, God knows already what the human will say, but God likes the prayers as it is by this way the humans express their personnal and private relation with Him.

I see no contradiction.

[FireflyPL 0]

firefly look

i come form a strict background

just like u i was born in poland (well ur polish as i see from ur sig)

so i know wot im talking about

Well yea, but I m not an ordinary Pole . I m qurious are you male or female? Cause on ofp.info it is written you are female

why? cant u see wot happens rightnow?

Of course I do. And? Dont you see so much worse things like biblical scale hunger? Tribe wars like in Rwanda? Natural disasters like Tsunami tragedy? Milions who die every year because of smoking? Milions dying of AIDS, Cancer etc? Hundreds of thousends who die in car accident every year? And how many people die in religious wars? Several thousends a year at most!!

b4 it was the christians who wanted to christianise

because they meant that katholism/evangelism

is the ONLY TRUE religion

You mess up christianity and katholicism. I think that you dont have enough knowledge of christian religion and ideas of Joshka Ben Josef aka Jesus.

sure that it wasnt the only reason for the crusades

It was not the reason at all! The only reason was muslim invasion onto Holy Land and lands of Christians. Crusades were descendant ideas of reconquista.

i dont say that but i know that there have been massacres, slaughters done by crusade knights in the name of GOD.

Of course there were. But If you know christianity you should pretty clearly know that it had nothing to do with christian religion. Fact is that religion was just a pretekst for robbing and raping and that later become known as massacres. To be honest at that times massakres as we call it today were just common method of warfare :/

now the same thign happens to the islam in a way

well both religions have a very fundametalistic and intolerant vein

Well there is a difference. In christianity you can change religion, in islam changing religion = capital punishment (death).

well in the old days u were a bigger beliver if u payed more.

if u couldnt pay the church u´d burn in hell

Again what it has to do with ideas of Jesus? It has nothing to do with christianity.

also religion isnt so priceless as u think

if u want to belong to the church

(at least its os in germany)

u need to pay taxes

if u dotn pay taxes, ur not in church anymore

>consquence

u cant marry (well in church)

Again what it has to do with religion?? It s just state law made by MPs, and I dont see any connection with religion. You constantlly mix up different facts with religion. I dont understand that.

[PainDealer 0]

heh I just resigned from church