USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[froggyluv 2130]

But you could be on to something. Maybe I should just accept this forum as a hostile, irrelevant place to discuss these ideas and just move away.

Say it ain't so Scuba!  

Seriously man, it ain't worth getting too boiled up over on anyone's part. I might disagree with you on many issues but just know that I do listen to your points and reflect on them. I used to get in really heated debates on one of the major news forums with both Liberals and Righties but once in a while I'd walk away re-examining my positions and sometimes modifying them due to a well put argument.

[.kju 3240]

DP

[.kju 3240]

For a good laugh

John Cleese about Sarah Palin

Thats nice too.

[chops 111]

And its hard not to get frustrated when you're getting sandbagged by multiple people every single time you post one of your opinions.

My dear scubaman3D, you've got enough of your finger on the political pulse to know that any Republican is going to be outnumbered here in an international forum.

But you could be on to something. Maybe I should just accept this forum as a hostile, irrelevant place to discuss these ideas and just move away.

Here we'd call that throwing all your toys out of the cot (crib).

Quote[/b] ]You know what is probably the difference between me and most people around. I think having a majority in the house, senate, and presidency would be bad for either party.

I guess that makes you a Maverick then right?

Back to the bigger picture, it's interesting to see McCain now running around the garden trying to catch the attack dogs he let loose on Obama. It would seem the Presidency is Obama's to lose, which is a surprise as he'd be a very weak candidate in any previous election year.

For my own two cents, I'd have liked to have seen Al Gore have another crack at it.

[scubaman3D 0]

You'll have to try harder than that.

You think calling me a baby is going to somehow instigate me?

Grow up.

[chops 111]

Jeez dude. Relax. Just having a bit of fun with ya! I thought the little smiley face man there might have lightened the tone a bit. Sheesh!

Edit: Quote added.

Quote[/b] ]One only wishes that the election could be over now and a proper and dignified verdict rendered, so as to spare democracy and civility the degradation to which they look like being subjected in the remaining days of a low, dishonest campaign.

Well said Mr Hitchens

[scubaman3D 0]

Alright.

Sorry, I'm taking this a bit too seriously.

[Commando84 0]

its pretty funny how everyone seems really over serious in a place like the offtopic corner

[Sophion-Black 0]

oook... long time no see. But this was discussed within a couple other marines in my platoon. Which we each had are own opinion on what would happen. This was the topic:

How would the world respond if the US restarted combined arms nuclear test. Meaning, How would other countries- and other organizations (i.e. Al Qaeda) react to the US detonating a nuclear bomb in a training exercise in such a scenario to simulate the usage of the weapon and putting boots on the ground after the detonation. Given the tremendous trust in our MOPP Gear, and restrictions from the PTBT makes this very unlikely. But is a show of such aggression the right remedy to scare terrorists and future enemies away from war with the US?

My Answer: Although training exercises to influence international policies abroad. Such an exercise may be taken as overkill. HOWEVER, such a scenario may occur. The possibility of the US using a nuclear weapon is still on the table, sure its .0000000000003%... (dramatization) but something like that needs to be looked at and have at least some training of what may come.

[MehMan 0]

You'd be trying to scare people who are ready to die for their cause with death...how is that effective?

[gsleighter 0]

How about trying to rectify or at least apologize for some of the damage we did to the world trying to hold the Soviets in their corner? Terrorists don't hate the US for our freedoms, or they'd be attacking Norway, or Iceland, or a number of other countries with a greater degree of personal freedom and liberty. They hate us because of our skewed development and foreign policy decisions overseas.

We've been doing a pretty terrible job so far, stripping away personal liberty, granting the government all sorts of new surveillance powers. In America now, people talk about Muslims like they used to talk about blacks, or people used to talk about Jews. Take any sentence about Obama being a Muslim, or some stereotype about Muslims, and replace the word Muslim with Black or Jewish. We've heard all this before, unfortunately. The more things change...

Seriously, trying to demonstrate our willingness to commit atrocities as a show of strength?

[chops 111]

I can't imagine a scenario where a nuke would possibly be of any use against insurgents. I'd guess they know the US has them.

Detonating a nuke would further set back the USA's already very shaky image in the rest of the world. French nuclear testing in the Pacific in the 1990s is still bitterly remembered here in Australia.

Atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons put more radioactive material into the atmosphere (and the food chain) than the Chernobyl disaster. Even the wacky North Koreans set theirs off underground.

[scubaman3D 0]

How about trying to rectify or at least apologize for some of the damage we did to the world trying to hold the Soviets in their corner?

We've been doing a pretty terrible job so far, stripping away personal liberty, granting the government all sorts of new surveillance powers.

Seriously, trying to demonstrate our willingness to commit atrocities as a show of strength?

You don't have to apologize if you're never wrong

I agree that freedoms appear to be eroding and will continue to do so under our next president, Barak Hussein Obama.

There are different kinds of freedoms. Under Bush, we traded personal freedom for the illusion of national security. Under Obama, we will trade economic freedom for the illusion of economic security. Either way, I say we're screwed in the long run.

And the point about the nuclear detonation is to deter conflict, not demonstrate a desire for it.

[MehMan 0]

How again? They won't care much. They won't go: oh no, nukes, we better stay off. They never have.

[scubaman3D 0]

dude, I'm not taking a position, I'm clarifying a point.

Detonating a nuke would not be in order to demonstrate a will to "commit atrocities", rather deter conflict in the long run by an aggressive action.

Thats the argument. If you need me to assuage your fears that I am disagreeing with you, let me say that I don't think it would be a good idea to detonate a nuke - not just now anyways.

[Second 0]

I don't see reason why blowing something nuclear up would be any different from calling military exercises in face of conflict. Or in world of peacekeeping they use live-fire exercises to demonstrate readiness and willingness to use power if needed. It's called showing power. It has relative big part of evading conflicts/problems... Well wars are hard to prevent due their nature (or atleast it requires more "than last minute's lets have a drill"-power showing). Forexample peacekeepers have had positive results from burning some powder to pop-up targets, violations gets smaller and even ceases completely.

Ofcouse nuclear weapons is bit different thing... It might make situation teeny weeny worse than it was at first . But one has to keep in mind that US keeps and has kept nuclear weapons as option and in quite "liberal" fashion infact... i believe OFP's CWC campaign would have resulted to use of (tactical) nuclear weapons when US got kicked to ass quite badly as start. Also even that Cuba was rogue actor with his Scud, but i believe Soviet general would have had same option as well.

[Second 0]

Why is my post invisible? I write intelligent and brilliant post which takes half an hour, and it's not there.  

I see that i'm last poster, but - i - don't - see - the - #%@$€ - post

Huston. I believe we have a problem.

EDIT: Ahh now i see it. And i'm filthy triple poster, it seems. Spit on me  

[MehMan 0]

Terrorist aren't convetional fighters.

[Second 0]

There are other opponents. China is potential opponent, Iran is potential opponent, Russia is potential opponent for US. Indeed terrorists are opponents now, but that could change in coming years.

Like Sophion-Black said:

Quote[/b] ]But is a show of such aggression the right remedy to scare terrorists and future enemies away from war with the US?

[MehMan 0]

oh wait, I just read al gayda and thought that was it. In any case, no, nuclear arms testing wouldn't scare china. They have their own, the US have done it before and well, I don't think that would change the situation with China. Besides, china is fast becoming a good friend with the US. There are other means, though, like crippling the enemy,

[Second 0]

Yeah. Having military exercises should not scare either. It just shows readiness and will to use force (nuclear in this case) if facing threat, to owns and to enemy.

Sure in China's or Russia's case it probably would just throw world into new nuclear race because they (China, Russia) might have their own nuclear exercise as response and so on...

[Sophion-Black 0]

ok, you hit more birds with one stone on using a nuke in an exersise.

THE MOST OBVIOUS POINT OVERLOOKED: ITS AN EXERSISE, TRAINING. What would you do if you was in a building in Iraq and you was blown off your ass and noticed a mushroom cloud oustide the window? You dont know do you? Higher wouldnt have any way of reaching you, you wont know where the allied forces are, you wouldnt know where that crazy is that drove you to the building would be at... blackout. a nuclear explosion is exrteemly big you can have more than one exercise run off of it. so you can cover more than on scenario with it.

But they arnet "willing to die" they arent suicidal, they want to do something. not join and be killed without ever having a chance. If i was a terrorist, i simply wouldnt care that the US was setting of nukes. but i would be mindful once regular forces started wearing MOPP suits. there are little tricks we can do. on a serious note, it was brought to my attention that launching a nuke to strike into a cave would not be considered an atmosphereic detonation. it would be undergroud... hence a loophole to launching one. but, milary value of doing so... nothing really

[cozza 24]

You can do nuclear weapon testing but terrorist arnt gonna be scared. They'll know your bluffing

America will never risk setting a nuke off in an Urban area just to kill a few terrorist. If Anything, nuclear testing to scare off terrorist will just gain more support for there side. America will show there prepared to kill thousand's of lives to kill a few people.

Its a stupid idea that will just make people hate America more. And that something I been hearing about in the presidential race is they want to restore America's pride in the world

[Second 0]

ok, you hit more birds with one stone on using a nuke in an exersise.

THE MOST OBVIOUS POINT OVERLOOKED: ITS AN EXERSISE, TRAINING. What would you do if you was in a building in Iraq and you was blown off your ass and noticed a mushroom cloud oustide the window? You dont know do you? Higher wouldnt have any way of reaching you, you wont know where the allied forces are, you wouldnt know where that crazy is that drove you to the building would be at... blackout. a nuclear explosion is exrteemly big you can have more than one exercise run off of it. so you can cover more than on scenario with it.

Why should nuke be blown to train what to do under NBC-attack? Individual soldier can't do much anything else that wear protective gear he has been given and have basic understanding of nuclear weapon's effects.

You don'' get shelled by real 155mm barrage when training what to do when shells are landing into you positions... You simulate it at best.

[Viper169th 0]

This is my 2 cents about the polictical theater in the US

I watch howe we are printing money faster then ever I see Obama sweet talking everyone with all his give aways programs or welfare like We use to call it do you know whats wrong with Health insurance the economy I can show you it the politicians in Washington when they put their heads together they can't come up with anything good what we truly need to do in this country is stop voting republican and democrat thats what got us in this position they're one in the same anymore just ones taking you there faster. Our country is moving to socialism at a speed our four fathers would be ashamed of us for. We need to get real people back into government not politician!

Sincerely,

 Viper

P.S.

The only one I like is Palin she hasn't been to Washington