USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[Balschoiw 0]

It´s funny that people are up to vote for a VP who can´t even remember the quote of the day on a coffeemug...

I guess she really needs to be wired as Bush was during the TV debate some years ago.

Right now it looks like Barbie and Crashken are running for the White House.

Palin misquotes Albright

If there are Aliens somewhere out there and they happen to see the current election runups they will order some popcorn and wait for 5 more minutes before they hit the "Zapp" button to clean the planet if they think that Barbie and Crashken are the best the USA can get.

[scubaman3D 0]

HAHAH,  are you seriously bringing this garbage here, to me. I hardly think this is worth spending time on. So she said the word "support" instead of "help" and that is significant to you.  You expect more from this poor woman than you could ever achieve yourself.

You found some obscure "Huffington Post" - and God knows who they are, about something not even newsworthy.  

Maybe where you come from , coffee mug quotes are very important to remember. Just don't pretend you have never misquoted somebody ever in your life.

[Scorpio 0]

Quote[/b] ]I see, you're an idealist.

You think the world will frolic and live at peace after the evil capitalist empire has fallen?

Hardly. I think that not only will the evil capitalist empire fall, but all others will fall with it. I think mankind is destined to stray towards greed and violence, and ironically the only thing that would show them the error of their ways is for a calamity to occur.

Quote[/b] ]What about my statement regarding McCain is unclear?

I just didn't get it. Forgive me

Quote[/b] ]I disagree that we are loosing. I think we have to put some hard work into making Iraq work and I'm one of those idealists that democracy can eventually develop there - unless you think there is something inherently wrong with the Iraqi people...

Funny you should mention that, and yes I do. I'm from Iraq, and one thing I know about Iraqis: when they're united and in agreement, they are a prosperous and intelligent people, but divided and we're the laziest, most unreliable people in the world. If you'd really like to know why I think nobody is winning in Iraq, I'll tell you:

-Corruption remains a huge problem over there, especially in the reconstruction programme. Costs billions, and most of the time external bodies (i.e. the US) can't intervene in "investigations" and those responsible usually get away with it. One example among countless others: there's one former Baa'th party official that robbed a clean water programme in Najaf of millions and fled the country. Now this man lives right here in Manchester, UK.

- Government workers are lazy. No, its not a generalisation. You have to use brute force to get them to work. Only the scariest of managers can exercise their authority properly, I've seen this for myself and its quite funny in a sick way. It is my belief that if you withraw American forces quickly, it'll give a kick in the backside of the police and security ministers to organise their forces and use their huge budget surplus to secure the rest of the nation.

- The reconstruction programme is a joke, and the country's infrastructure is nowhere near sufficient - imagine having running water and electricity only a few hours a day in the searing heat.

- There is a severe brain-drain in Iraq. This is obvious since doctors and engineers (in our culture its preferable to be one of these ) are leaving the country, due to death theats and/or poor fiscal situations.

- The biggest problem is the aura of violence that has gripped the country. It is beyond brutal. It's just plain insane. Let me give an example: a tenant in the Karrada district in Baghdad had an argument with his landlord and didn't want to give the apartment back in good condition, so he blew it up, killing two people.

This kind of thing goes on every day. Don't think the bombs are gone either. They are ongoing. And its become part of daily life for Iraqis. "Ohh its just a bomb", they normally say. So many have died and so many have been left traumatised by their experiences, especially the children.

- There also remains countless kidnapings, death threats, and just general senseless violence that puts the people in constant fear.

- The former Sunni insurgents fighting alongside Al-Qaeda are now being paid to cooperate with the US and Iraqi government and provide a security force. Many cite this as a victory but how long can this last before the lads get bored and decide to start shooting again. Just shows theyre just a bunch of punks.

- There are also deep divisions in Iraq. Its funny how before the war, there were no differences between Sunni and Shia. The only time these distinctions were made were among scholars when they debated religious matters. And yet now the media mentions the sect of each person and group it reports on, as if Sunni and Shia are different ethnicities or something.

What good is democracy when you don't have the freedom to live your lives?

In concept I supported the removal of Saddam Hussein (ironically most fitting since the US helped to put him in power) But its obvious the war wasn't for this reason. Any person who wasn't deluded knew this. I knew the current administration, even in the laughable notion that they even had good intentions, I knew they would screw things up. And they did, and they just got away with it. Amazing.

The end does not justify the means. If in the very unlikely event that you eventually establish a thriving, secure democracy in Iraq, the fact remains that it was done through violence. The Ba'ath party has been comitted to destroying everything that is good in this land, and the western powers have either profited from the wars or caused the further destruction of the land. It's amazing how strong the Iraqi people are after Saddam's time, but this is just too much.

Quote[/b] ]And the obama campaign is built, in part (even in your eyes), that we have lost the war in Iraq and that he will end it.

Therefore a win in Iraq will mean one of his running platforms will no longer resonate in people's opinions.  If we win in Iraq, its bad news for his campaign. Therefore I say a win in Iraq is a loss for obama.

I hope this isn't true. Because if it is, it just shows, nobody gives a shit about the Iraqi people. As long as America "wins" and as long as the credibility of politicians isn't smeared, nobody cares about the destruction of a nation they can't even point out on a map.

[scubaman3D 0]

I happen to believe that is learned behavior. I don't think there is something "wrong" with Iraqis. I think they just need time to kind of get up to speed.

But thank you, that was actually a very interesting take on the problem.

[DrBobcat 0]

Thank you, Scorpio, for the insight. While somewhat... blunt, I cannot think it could have been put any better. One of my professors was born in Iraq and he shares much of your sentiment. I only wish the general public knew more as well. Perhaps, actual progress would then be made.

*shrug*

- dRb

[walker 0]

Hi all

Says it all

http://sadguysontradingfloors.tumblr.com/

Kind Regards walker

[TheReddog 0]

Palin has no place in the presidential campaign at all, she is unqualified, inexperienced and not cut of the right cloth. The fact that McCain chose her as his running partner baffles me to no end. It's almost as if he thought, "Well they have a black man I'll get myself a woman!!!".

The fact that someone like her is even involved at such a high level coupled with the latent mud slinging and bullshit going on, once and for all time confirms that American politics is a freaking circus.

Did you hear her answers to the press when they questioned her experience with foreign policy, "I governed a state which borders Canada and is really close to Russia so I have foreign policy experience!". What a steaming load of shit! The really sad thing here is that half the country will swallow it anyway.

[Lamont 0]

It is beyond mental retardation for anyone to think that the "discussion" between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden was a debate.

It goes against the whole point of a debate because Palin did not answer questions she was uncomfortable with (which were most of them). Instead she was going off topic and talking about senseless crap that her script writers made her memorize.

Thats not a debate, thats just ranting. And thats what she did.

[scubaman3D 0]

I guess you're a disciple of the demo-messiah, Obama, then?

Last time I checked, praise songs to Presidential candidates was just creepy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8tLtiTW-M

[TheReddog 0]

I'm not an American and therefore I don't really support either side.

That said I think McCain can only hurt his campaign with someone like Palin on board.

[Balschoiw 0]

You gotta love Larry Flynt

Larry Flynt's 'Palin porno' is legal

Quote[/b] ]Publisher Larry Flynt has announced that Hustler is releasing a porn film featuring a Sarah Palin lookalike and a tank full of stranded Russian soldiers.

Thank god *cough* we have Angela

[MehMan 0]

McCain defends Obama?

[chops 111]

McCain defends Obama?

"No ma'am he's not an Arab".

Fuck me!

'Defends' Obama by saying he's not an Arab!

As if being an Arab would be the worst thing ever. He didn't even bother to defend Arab Americans or call her out on her racism.

[froggyluv 2136]

"No ma'am he's not an Arab".

Fuck me!

'Defends' Obama by saying he's not an Arab!

As if being an Arab would be the worst thing ever. He didn't even bother to defend Arab Americans or call her out on her racism.

Hehe- good point.

It is this level of intolerance that have led many away including myself from the Right.

[scubaman3D 0]

He didn't even bother to defend Arab Americans or call her out on her racism.

Ok, come on this is stupid.

He said "No m'am he's not. He's a descent, family man citizen, who I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues."

The crowd laughed at her statement that he's an Arab and they clapped at his response to her.

Do you think he should have endorsed Obama because of this?  

Use your head.

Also, froggy - it would be ignorant minded if you think there is no intolerance on the extreme Democrat side either.

After all, people like Spokesperson lurk on that side of the isle.

[froggyluv 2136]

He didn't even bother to defend Arab Americans or call her out on her racism.

Ok, come on this is stupid.

He said "No m'am he's not. He's a descent, family man citizen, who I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues."

The crowd laughed at her statement that he's an Arab and they clapped at his response to her.

Do you think he should have endorsed Obama because of this?  

Use your head.

Also, froggy - it would be ignorant minded if you think there is no intolerance on the extreme Democrat side either.

After all, people like Spokesperson lurk on that side of the isle.

Some also booed McCain when he defended Obama. I respect McCain's attempting to curtail his faithful's wrath but it's kinda lika trying to stick a genie back in the bottle that he, himself, let out.

I'm not sure who Spokesperson is, but surely you can't equate the chants of "Get him! Kill Him! He's a Terrorist!", as well as threatening a black camerman at a McCain rally with anything going on at the Dems. Since the Southern Democrats switched to the Republican Party during the Civil Rights days of the 50's-60's, there has been a general undercurrent of intolerance at best, out-right predjudice at worst in some segments of the Republican Party.

[scubaman3D 0]

Please. Use your head.

There are extremes on both sides. You can't say that the KKK represents Republican values in the same way you cant say that the Earth Liberation Front represents the Democrats.

You call yourself an independent or a moderate, yet there is nothing moderate, or independent in your formulated ideas about politics.

In this place, it is as if the Democrats can do no wrong and the Republican's shouldn't even have the right to exist.

I wouldn't call that moderate or independent thought.

You know what is probably the difference between me and most people around.

I think having a majority in the house, senate, and presidency would be bad for either party.

I happen to believe that the reason the US has been so successful for so long is because of the constant give and take between the two parties, so while I fundamentally disagree with Obama and the democrats on many things, I think it is still very important to have them in the government. The party should never take precedence over the country.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

This is independent thought.

[froggyluv 2136]

Listen, I don't give a monkey's banana if you don't think I'm 'Independent' or 'Moderate' enough for you. There has been a climate of ignorant slurs and intolerance by the base of the Republican Party which has turned me as well as many others off to them. Many high-level Republican advisors and strategists have faulted McCain's inability to reel this in so stop pandering your 'equal' stance as a moderate and open your eyes.

[scubaman3D 0]

Sure, maybe we should dissolve the Republican party and inaugurate chairman Obama?

Ok, we'll find out how independent you really are then.

Answer me one question. Would the US be better off without the Republican Party?

[froggyluv 2136]

Sure, maybe we should dissolve the Republican party and inaugurate chairman Obama?  

Ok, we'll find out how independent you really are then.

Answer me one question. Would the US be better off without the Republican Party?

Absolutely not, if no other Party where there to keep things in check. Frankly, I think we need more minor parties recognized as I'd bet most American's look at their primary party as the 'lesser of 2 evils'.

As far as proving my moderate mindset to you, trust me, I have some social views to the far right of Rush, I just don't impose them on others.

[scubaman3D 0]

That's almost exactly what I said.

Quote[/b] ]I happen to believe that the reason the US has been so successful for so long is because of the constant give and take between the two parties, so while I fundamentally disagree with Obama and the democrats on many things, I think it is still very important to have them in the government. The party should never take precedence over the country.

What, then? Are you just disagreeing with me for the sake of argument now?

[froggyluv 2136]

That's almost exactly what I said.

Quote[/b] ]I happen to believe that the reason the US has been so successful for so long is because of the constant give and take between the two parties, so while I fundamentally disagree with Obama and the democrats on many things, I think it is still very important to have them in the government.  The party should never take precedence over the country.

What, then? Are you just disagreeing with me for the sake of argument now?

Scuba, sorry if I was gruff I just get frustrated with people trying to constantly pigeon-hole me in this party or that.

No, I agree with your ideas on a general level but I just don't like with what I've seen with the Republican majority's over the last 8 years so I am less inclined to give them much latitude right now.

[scubaman3D 0]

alright then...its agreed.

[chops 111]

He said "No m'am he's not (an Arab). He's a descent, family man citizen, who I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues."

Which implies that an Arab is the opposite. Granted this is a very semantic argument though.

Scubaman, lately you seem not to discuss any flaws or faults with the Republicans without flying off the handle, throwing "stupid" and "ignorant" around and misreading people completely.

Criticism of the Republicans = "they have no right to exist" ?  

[scubaman3D 0]

Which implies that an Arab is the opposite. Granted this is a very semantic argument though.

Semantic, weak - I agree.

Talk about misreading people...I think you have misread him completely.

And its hard not to get frustrated when you're getting sandbagged by multiple people every single time you post one of your opinions.

I imagine even as flawless as you are, you might have a breaking point as well.

But you could be on to something. Maybe I should just accept this forum as a hostile, irrelevant place to discuss these ideas and just move away.

By the way, you never PM'd me back.