USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[froggyluv 2136]

haha, she seriously said that?

Ok, I'm honestly disappointed.  

Yeah-but granted it was a 'shout out' to a third-grade class which I suppose is better than to her 'Homies up North!'

 There has been a serious 'dumbing down' in America and it certainly crosses all political lines.

[chops 111]

If WW3 breaks out and China, Venezuela, Cuba, or any other country invades any part of the US, they're going to have a hell of a time dealing with our partisans.

You see this is a big part of what I don't understand about the USA. What are you so scared of?

Do you really, honestly think that the most powerful military to ever exist in human history isn't enough to protect you? That an armed citizenry is essential to repelling an invasion?

Suggesting that any of those countries, in fact any at all would invade the US is hysterical paranoia.

To quote Bill Hicks "I was in Australia and people asked me 'are you proud to be an American?' I don't know, I didn't have much to do with it, my parents fucked there, that's about all".

"That's how we can stop patriotism, put pictures of our parents fucking on the flag"

Amen

[Sennacherib 0]

an other danger for the world: Monsanto. this company try to put its hands on the food all around the world (corn, wheat, rapeseed, soybean ).

their modified seeds contaminate all the fields; and after the contamination Monsanto declare to be the owner of the seeds which are from the contaminated fields.

the only possible use for farmers and assert their rights in court. but they lose every time.

About Palin: when stupidity meets religious fundamentalism. the future of USA

and: 700 billion dollars (to save the banking system); joyful taxpayers-happy taxpayers

[gsleighter 0]

You see this is a big part of what I don't understand about the USA. What are you so scared of?

Do you really, honestly think that the most powerful military to ever exist in human history isn't enough to protect you? That an armed citizenry is essential to repelling an invasion?

Suggesting that any of those countries, in fact any at all would invade the US is hysterical paranoia.

It is powerful right now, but the world is changing rapidly. Who's to say Russia or China won't be in a position militarily to challenge the US in a decade.

Do you have an argument against guns besides "Guns are bad?"

[kernriver 4]

The Ramones!

Rock and Roll

Jazz

You forgot country music.  

[Panda-PL- 0]

This is bloody ridiculous!

"what would make YOU like USA.

And please answer with sollutions, and not copy-paste some nice speech with lots of nice generalities.

Imagine you are the president and have majority in congress. They come to you and ask what you wanna do and you need to be specific."

It is a formal argument.

It's a great question. In every debate the basic thing is to ask what kind of evidence would sway your opponenet. He has two choices:

1) admitt there is nothing that could possibly change his mind (and we can all go home)

2) name a few kinds of arguments that would sway you if shown true (and we work with this set criteria)

Actually you appealed to ridicule which falls under one.

You are free to hold your beliefs and you are free to be inconsistent and irrational in them. Feel free.

As to historical argument: my point was some people are more entitled to have pride than others (who cannot stand to  watch National Geographic). Some people are entitled to national shame but they still feel proud.

[-Snafu- 78]

@ Oct. 03 2008,10:27)]

This is bloody ridiculous!

"what would make YOU like USA.

And please answer with sollutions, and not copy-paste some nice speech with lots of nice generalities.

Imagine you are the president and have majority in congress. They come to you and ask what you wanna do and you need to be specific."

It is a formal argument.

It's a great question. In every debate the basic thing is to ask what kind of evidence would sway your opponenet. He has two choices:

1) admitt there is nothing that could possibly change his mind (and we can all go home)

2) name a few kinds of arguments that would sway you if shown true (and we work with this set criteria)

Actually you appealed to ridicule which falls under one.

You are free to hold your beliefs and you are free to be inconsistent and irrational in them. Feel free.

As to historical argument: my point was some people are more entitled to have pride than others (who cannot stand to  watch National Geographic). Some people are entitled to national shame but they still feel proud.

I think our wires have been crossed.

I never stated I hate the USA, I love the place. If I didn't like It I would never go there. As I have stated before I have family there. I have no reason to hate it.

How about reading what I posted instead of Scubaman3D's assumptions about me?

[Panda-PL- 0]

Allright snafu:

What would USA need to do to make you love it more?

Or would you change nothing?

I did read from your posts they are not a responsible superpower. I dismiss the charity argument, but I don't want to get into that since it's a bigger topic.

My oppinion on superpowers is that USA is dooing what I'd like them to do. They try to establish influences in various areas, like they allways did. And in each case the order thay are trying to establish is better than the alternatives and we do end up with better place (that is if they stay long enougth).

The only time you can blame them is when they pull out prematurely - this is when they loose wars and results ae not positive.

The present conflicts are more simmilar to the past ones than one could expect. They are simply reported different.

[chops 111]

It is powerful right now, but the world is changing rapidly. Who's to say Russia or China won't be in a position militarily to challenge the US in a decade.

Do you have an argument against guns besides "Guns are bad?"

Hehehee! Are you serious? Russia or China invading the US in the next ten years?

Exactly how are either of these countries going to overtake the US/NATO military in 10 years?

Where did I say guns are bad? I didn't. I said fear of an invasion is ridiculous.

It's this kind of attitude at a government level that has so damaged the reputation of the US in the wider world. Seeing the world in black and white. Enemies or allies. With us or against us.

"John MCain knows how to win a war" Sarah Palin.

Which one would that be exactly?

[scubaman3D 0]

Well why are Russia and China building their respective militaries at a rate more comparable to wartime than peace time?

Do you think they intend to challenge each other, or do you think they intend to challenge the US?

[gsleighter 0]

Chops, you may not know about Russia and China's military buildup, or the sale of high tech SAM systems to Iran, or more than a billion dollars of weapons being sold to Venezuela. That's all for a different thread. What you keep dodging, though, is "Why is personal firearms ownership a bad thing?"

Americans also own weapons to keep our own government from sliding backwards into tyranny.

[chops 111]

What you keep dodging, though, is "Why is personal firearms ownership a bad thing?"

Quote me saying that!  Your country do what you want with it. I don't care either way. You're just waiting to quote the 2nd amendment or whatever it is.

Chops, you may not know about Russia and China's military buildup, or the sale of high tech SAM systems to Iran, or more than a billion dollars of weapons being sold to Venezuela. That's all for a different thread.

Is this build up anything like the vast arsenal of chemical weapons Iraq had? OK, tell me, or provide some links to any non-crackpot websites where any nation on earth is a viable military threat to the US. Type military spending into Google and get back to me.

Americans also own weapons to keep our own government from sliding backwards into tyranny.

My point exactly. Even you're own government is viewed as a potential enemy.

[Second 0]

Chops, you may not know about Russia and China's military buildup, or the sale of high tech SAM systems to Iran, or more than a billion dollars of weapons being sold to Venezuela. That's all for a different thread.

Is this build up anything like the vast arsenal of chemical weapons Iraq had? OK, tell me, or provide some links to any non-crackpot websites where any nation on earth is a viable military threat to the US. Type military spending into Google and get back to me.

Americans also own weapons to keep our own government from sliding backwards into tyranny.

My point exactly. Even you're own government is viewed as a potential enemy.

Yup, It's just weird to see that (some) US people are actually still afraid of Red Dawn. I thought we 5 million people country here in arm's pit of Russia should be worried (well we are some amount), but no: it's US across Atlantic and Pacific ocean which should be worried about might tyrantic evil empire of Russia. This is classical stuff.  

Besides amount of additional money on defence budget isn't any more than add to other goverment's budgets.

About tyranny of goverment: Well hey, UN black choppers and stuff. You - never - can't - be - too - sure.  

[scubaman3D 0]

Even you're own government is viewed as a potential enemy.

Hell yes.

They answer to us and they should never forget that.

Its something that you may never understand unless you were raised here.

[echo1 0]

Americans also own weapons to keep our own government from sliding backwards into tyranny.

So, the government turns into an evil tyranny backed up by the army. What are a bunch of rednecks with AR-15s going to do? Lets face it, when the 2nd ammendment was written, wars were fought completely differently to how they are fought today. Back then a stockpile of muskets was all you needed. Now you need anti-tank, anti-air, mines, explosives, mortars etc etc etc to have half a chance of fighting against an even somewhat well equipped army. The way I see it, American legislators should really look at what the Second Ammendment is about and make one of two choices -

A) That the citizenry have a right to fight off oppressors and they should be allowed to stockpile huge quantities of whatever weaponry they desire. (This could "possibly" be slightly impractical and dangerous)

B) The law was an example of revolutionary saber-rattling drafted in a completely different age to the one we currently inhabit, and is thus out of date and unnecessary.

I don't know how it is anywhere else, but here in Ireland, guns are quite rare, and only sporting arms can be purchased, (ie. shotguns, single shot rifles, 22-calibre target weapons) our police force is unarmed, and we still have one of the lowest rates of crime anywhere in the world. I'm not entirely convinced about the need to carry around pistols and assault weapons to defend oneself, especially considering the amount of people killed by their own guns.

[-Snafu- 78]

@ Oct. 03 2008,12:59)]Allright snafu:

What would USA need to do to make you love it more?

Or would you change nothing?

What kind of question is this? I don't have some sort of like-o-meter where my like for a certain nation increases or decreases depending on what they do. My like for the US has never changed. Just because I criticised does not mean my like drops for them. Unless of course the US becomes something like Nazi Germany.

Quote[/b] ]I did read from your posts they are not a responsible superpower.

I pointed out to Scubaman3D that aid is measured via GDP and that aid has been used wrongly by many nations. I didn't do a critical analysis of their role as the superpower.

Quote[/b] ]I dismiss the charity argument

What?

[chops 111]

Its something that you may never understand unless you were raised here.

Well, we're in heated agreement on that my friend. I'd venture to say there are perhaps a few Americans raised there who fail to understand it too?

Has this happened often? The need to overthrow the government by force? Strange to be "exporting democracy" to the Middle East while preparing for a coup at home.

@scubaman3D. I gather your a Republican voter? I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the current administration. Seriously.

[scubaman3D 0]

snafu:

Why would we expect a system from Ireland to work in the US?

The two countries are completely different in so many ways, I barely know where to start.

You are more than welcome to repeal the amendment, if you'd like.

Unfortunately, for you, an amendment to the constitution is the only way to take guns away from people.

I personally own 3 rifles and 2 shotguns. I also stand to inherit several handguns from my father - though I do not own any of my own currently.

I can also proudly say I have not once pointed one of my firearms at a person, nor have I ever threatened or been threatened by anybody with a gun.

I have completed two firearms training courses for civilians and I am legally capable to keep arms in my home.

Chops:

Nobody is preparing for a coupe.

If you want to know my opinions, seriously, PM me.

I'm also on skype often in the evenings.

[froggyluv 2136]

I'd venture to say there are perhaps a few Americans raised there who fail to understand it too?

There is much peddling of fear-mongering here. All you have to do is tune your radio to one of the many Right-Wing nut talk-shows who would have you believe that certain 'ethnic groups' will one day horde 'mainstream' America so you better protect yourself  

They also propagate the allegation that another 'ethnic group' controls the banks and the media... you can see where this is going I hope. This type of hate-mongering has created a climate of fear where Armegeddon appears to be always on the horizon. This aspect of the Right-Wing is the primary reason for my distancing myself from them.

True fiscal conservatism is fine, the rest is just garbage.

[scubaman3D 0]

So then froggy, you don't agree with the bailout plan, since its not truly fiscal conservatism?

[froggyluv 2136]

So then froggy, you don't agree with the bailout plan, since its not truly fiscal conservatism?

I believe in prevention so that I don't have to go to the doctor. If there is an axe in my head, I'll have no choice but to see the doctor.

Point being, this should have never happened but it did so unfortunately, extreme measures seem to be needed.

[-Snafu- 78]

snafu:

Why would we expect a system from Ireland to work in the US?

The two countries are completely different in so many ways, I barely know where to start.

You are more than welcome to repeal the amendment, if you'd like.

Unfortunately, for you, an amendment to the constitution is the only way to take guns away from people.

I personally own 3 rifles and 2 shotguns. I also stand to inherit several handguns from my father - though I do not own any of my own currently.

I can also proudly say I have not once pointed one of my firearms at a person, nor have I ever threatened or been threatened by anybody with a gun.

I have completed two firearms training courses for civilians and I am legally capable to keep arms in my home.

Lol, wrong person mate.

It seems you have taken rather dislike to me because of those facts I pointed out that you are now seeing 'snafu' everywhere.

Warning: This post contains humour. Do not take it seriously.

[scubaman3D 0]

my bad.

[Placebo 29]

You know what they say about religion and politics?

"Get too heated talking about politics and you'll be praying Placebo don't ban yo ass"

Keep it civil and polite please folks

[Scorpio 0]

Yup, It's just weird to see that (some) US people are actually still afraid of Red Dawn. I thought we 5 million people country here in arm's pit of Russia should be worried (well we are some amount), but no: it's US across Atlantic and Pacific ocean which should be worried about might tyrantic evil empire of Russia. This is classical stuff.  

As well they should be as Putin rears his head to threaten Alaska!