Have you ever tried quitting smoking/alcohol?

[turms 0]

Has anyone started smoking alcohol?

(I hear you can do that nowadays)

[Acecombat 0]

Its fun ok...jeez

Whats so fun about stoning your mind out , not knowing what you might do, lose your ability to perform even the simplest of actions , not to mention health issues and being a nuisance to others?

to relax!

Something you Ace should try from time to time! (without the help of alcohol of course)  

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Maybe I just drink and smoke to rebell against this upcoming trend of "living healthy makes you live happily". We have all those freaking fitness tapes coming over from Florida and California of people eating the most disgusting artificial health food, taking Botox and youth hormons, sleeping in oxygen tents and beginning the day with Joga and a facial scrub. I just hate this fakeness...

I rather have a good discussion with someone who is drunk and smells from cigarettes than with a phoney californian fittness trainer.

Albert i know several other ways to relax my myself thankfully , instead of stoning myself in to relaxation. Maybe i should borrow one of those valium injections and knock myself out in to gagaland eh if thats whats relaxation is about .

I still think the disadvantages of doing both are much much higher then any advantage. But heck this worlds only made of humans , people have even altered their religions scriptures to make way for wine/beer/alcohol so who am i to say its bad.

On a sidenote by the way recently the city of Makkah and Medina here in Saudi Arabia were declared smoke free zones , so no one can smoke there now , ironically the notion was passed because the 'mullahs' thought 'smoking' is haram or makruh in the religion after smoking Dunhill for 50 years themselves , took the dumbnuts sometime to realize that though

P.S: You cant have reasonable talk with someone whos drunk Albert

[stgn 39]

Don't smoke, drink or take enything. I Have to agree whit acecombat here what do you need alcohol for? Do i need to drink to dance: no, do i need it to act a bit silly: no. If I want to relax i just put Queen on and take on my M81 woodland jacket nothing more relaxing than that.

I have a question why do all you drinkers and smokers try so hard to make other people do the same crazy thing, it took 10 partys or so before people realised that I meant it,I go to high school, and some people just can't stop asking.

STGN

[ozanzac 0]

You cant have reasonable talk with someone whos drunk Albert  

You can. When one consumes alcohol, one doesn't suddenly turn into a totally unreasonable person.

Even when I'm blotto, I'm still more reasonable than unreasonable. Sure, I might slur a little whilist talking, but give me some time, it will come!

Trust me.....I just got home from a friday night down the pub.  

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

Don't smoke, drink or take enything. I Have to agree whit acecombat here what do you need alcohol for? Do i need to drink to dance: no, do i need it to act a bit silly: no.  If I want to relax i just put Queen on and take on my M81 woodland jacket nothing more relaxing than that.

I have a question why do all you drinkers and smokers try so hard to make other people do the same crazy thing, it took 10 partys or so before people realised that I meant it,I go to high school, and some people just can't stop asking.

STGN

haha, I have to agree here.

I never really understood why it was so 'funny' to have a game where the first one to trow up (because of alcohol) wins. I'm in college and often the most important subject on monday-morning is who was most drunk and how many beers he took. geting drunk it something you need to do to b epart of the club.

Well I've stopped drinking over two years ago and haven't touched a glass with alcohol ever since. And I don't even have to work hard to do so; I just don't want it and I don't feel the need for it either. (I don't smoke either btw)

One of the reasons why I don't go out anymore is becuase I have to hang out with my so-called friends who think going out means getting drunk. And I hate the smoking.

Call me a health-freak, but I rather spend my evening in the gym than in the pub.

[Acecombat 0]

You cant have reasonable talk with someone whos drunk Albert  

You can. When one consumes alcohol, one doesn't suddenly turn into a totally unreasonable person.

Even when I'm blotto, I'm still more reasonable than unreasonable. Sure, I might slur a little whilist talking, but give me some time, it will come!

Trust me.....I just got home from a friday night down the pub.  

yeah sure i believe you , just like i believe those people who after smashing up their car tell the policemen they are not drunk and that the tree came in the middle of the road on a hgihway so not their fault

Were talking about 'drunk' here not a single glass deal here ozanzac.

[denoir 0]

P.S: You cant have reasonable talk with someone whos drunk Albert  

You can have the most reasonable and meaningful conversation, if you are drunk as well

Now let me first make one thing clear - I'm not encouraging anybody to start drinking and smoking. This goes especially for younger people who are still developing and have a lower body mass. There are physical differences that make it far more dangerous than for an adult.

Having said that, I think people should get a more balanced view. Listening just to the regular propaganda, you can conclude that smoking gives you lung cancer while alcohol makes you behave like an idiot.

If that was the whole story, nobody would smoke or drink.

It's like saying that chocolate makes you fat and is bad for your teeth - and leaving out the fact that it tastes good.

Drinking and smoking makes you feel good. There are a few things in the world that are as good as a cigarette after a good meal or after sex. It's a wonderful pleasure. Incidentally the addiction that you get creates dynamics during the day. You build up a craving and the release it when you take a smoke. I think my days would be very dull if I stopped smoking.

There are however of course down sides. Nothing good in life comes without a price. You run a higher risk of various health problems, you smell bad to non-smokers and it costs money.

As a reasonable adult, it is a choice you have to make as an individual.

As for drinking - it can be wonderful to be drunk. First of all, you feel just great. Second, alcohol breaks down various mental barriers. One side of it is that you can behave like an idiot, but another is that you are able to communicate on a much more personal and deeper level with other drunk people. It breaks down inhibitions, both good ones and bad ones.

Payback is a bitch though. Hangovers can be terrible. You usually pay the price for being drunk the day after, and it can be very unpleasant.

Personally I don't drink much, and very rarely get drunk (a few times per year at most). The first two years at the uni. I went out quite often, and got really drunk on average say about once a week. I grew tired of it however and concluded basically that given the following hangovers, it wasn't worth it. Now when I go out I have a beer or two at most. This is mostly a social form rather than I get anything out of it. I don't get drunk and I don't have hangovers.

Last time I was actually drunk was in February or so. It was really really nice, but the hangover the day after was terrible. So I'm basically happy with my current very moderate drinking.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]There are however of course down sides. Nothing good in life comes without a price. You run a higher risk of various health problems, you smell bad to non-smokers and it costs money.

And what about health issues isnt that a down side? I cant believe you dont consider as a very viable threat. I mean for godsakes i can take bad breath but it isnt the ONLY downside to it. Smoking is related to different types of cancers IIRC like Lung/throat. I dont think that smoking makes you feel good. Whats this 'good' thing anyway? A feeling which you dont even comprehend and which simply passes by in a whiff of a moment isnt worth endangering your life for IMO but thats just me probably.

Quote[/b] ]Payback is a bitch though. Hangovers can be terrible. You usually pay the price for being drunk the day after, and it can be very unpleasant.

Once again youve not scoped the depth of the downside here , i dont know why either but a hangover would be the least of my worries after getting drunk just surviving would be enough. A person whos drunk is a menace if he drives or does something in which his full brain concentration is required , he becomes irresponsible and prone to make faulty decisions.

As i said before this sort of fun which is equally dangerous for yourself is not worth it. A drunk person usually doesnt know what hes saying to whom hes saying and often ends up compromising himself and then later regrets it plus not to mention the criminal acts committed by people under such circumstances like drugs/alcohol and not know the other day what they did. I just saw on Discovery a woman relating her story about she got drunk and then went to her mothers house and killed her and next morning she didnt knew anything about it

But i have to say i find one thing very hypocritical that the same people arguing about banning guns in America and crying about their detrimental effects on society and how they should work out their social problems can speak in favour of drugs/alcohol and not condemn it as it also has major adverse negative affects on the society.Atleast without the presence of such things a person HAS HIS OWN FREEDOM of mind and health

Try climbing mountains , chasing tornadoes they are fun too and dangerous if thats what you people who crave fun want

[Supah 0]

Quote[/b] ] I dont think that smoking makes you feel good.

Take it from someone who HAS smoked, it does.

Quote[/b] ]Whats this 'good' thing anyway? A feeling which you dont even comprehend and which simply passes by in a whiff of a moment isnt worth endangering your life for IMO but thats just me probably.

Well you not having smoked I dont think you can really comment on how it feels to smoke and wether its worth it It would be like me saying giving birth is easy.

Quote[/b] ]Once again youve not scoped the depth of the downside here , i dont know why either but a hangover would be the least of my worries after getting drunk just surviving would be enough.

You are overestimating the depth of the downside, very few people end up dying after having drank a bit too much. Sure there are exceptions but they are just that, exceptions. Making it seem as if you can just drop dead is short sighted.

Quote[/b] ] A person whos drunk is a menace if he drives or does something in which his full brain concentration is required , he becomes irresponsible and prone to make faulty decisions.

That is why you are not supposed to drink and drive but take a cab home or walk. As for faulty decisions ,.... most people don't need alcohol to make those.

Quote[/b] ]

As i said before this sort of fun which is equally dangerous for yourself is not worth it. A drunk person usually doesnt know what hes saying to whom hes saying and often ends up compromising himself and then later regrets it plus not to mention the criminal acts committed by people under such circumstances like drugs/alcohol and not know the other day what they did. I just saw on Discovery a woman relating her story about she got drunk and then went to her mothers house and killed her and next morning she didnt knew anything about it

Saying things you shouldn't .... well maybe you should drink less. On the other hand as long as the things are not too bad there is no problem. A lot of shy people will tell you they had the guts to say things they wanted to say drunk that they would never dare to say sober in social situations (IE Dating) About the murder "story", ask yourself, is she the rule or the exception to the rule? And how credible is her story? Isn't she just using it as an excuse to get off with a lighter sentence?

Quote[/b] ]

But i have to say i find one thing very hypocritical that the same people arguing about banning guns in America and crying about their detrimental effects on society and how they should work out their social problems can speak in favour of drugs/alcohol and not condemn it as it also has major adverse negative affects on the society. Atleast without the presence of such things a person HAS HIS OWN FREEDOM of mind and health

Guns are designed to kill, alcoholic beverages aren't. You have some hysterical fear of all things drug related and have unrealistic ideas of what people who have been drinking alcoholic beverages are like. I drink alcohol on a regular basis and I have yet to kill, maame and/or hurt a person under the influence. Does me drinking every now and then make me a idiot and dangerous? No it doesn't. I would suggest you try and get some first hand experience BEFORE you pass judgement.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]There are however of course down sides. Nothing good in life comes without a price. You run a higher risk of various health problems, you smell bad to non-smokers and it costs money.

And what about health issues isnt that a down side? I cant believe you dont consider as a very viable threat. I mean for godsakes i can take bad breath but it isnt the ONLY downside to it. Smoking is related to different types of cancers IIRC like Lung/throat.

It is, but smoking doesn't mean you will get cancer. Not smoking doesn't mean you won't get cancer. There's an elevatated risk, but we're talking about small minorities here.

Quote[/b] ]I dont think that smoking makes you feel good.

If you havn't smoked, how on earth would you know?

Quote[/b] ]Whats this 'good' thing anyway? A feeling which you dont even comprehend and which simply passes by in a whiff of a moment isnt worth endangering your life for IMO but thats just me probably.

Of course you comperhend and it lasts for a good while. And yes, today there are very few people unaware of the elevated risks to your health, so smokers do indeed think it is worth it.

Quote[/b] ]Once again youve not scoped the depth of the downside here , i dont know why either but a hangover would be the least of my worries after getting drunk just surviving would be enough. A person whos drunk is a menace if he drives or does something in which his full brain concentration is required , he becomes irresponsible and prone to make faulty decisions.

Of course you shouldn't drive when your drunk and people are aware of it and don't do it. You should not be drunk when you do something that requires concentration and motoric skills. You don't however need these things when you are with friends in a pub.

Quote[/b] ]As i said before this sort of fun which is equally dangerous for yourself is not worth it. A drunk person usually doesnt know what hes saying to whom hes saying and often ends up compromising himself and then later regrets it plus not to mention the criminal acts committed by people under such circumstances like drugs/alcohol and not know the other day what they did.

Nonsense. Of course you know what you are doing when you are drunk. You reduce your inhibitions etc, but it's not that you are out of control. You still have your basic awareness and are quite able to interact with the environment. Hundreds of millions of people worldwide get drunk every day and you don't see them dying in large numbers or wreaking havoc in society.

You have some very fucked up perceptions of what alcohol does to you.

[Supah 0]

Seems me and denoir agree

[iNeo 0]

You don't have to get a bad hangover. One good thing is to drink lots of water when you get home at night, and another is to drink stuff with less methanol because that's what causes hangovers. There's almost no methanol in vodka so that's good. Cognac, whiskey and some red wine has much more methanol.

Source, worth reading if you speak Scandinavian.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]P.S: You cant have reasonable talk with someone whos drunk Albert  

No, Acecombat. There are not always ways to relax yourself. A glass of wine makes people talk more openly. They drop all their self discipline and suddenly get more emotionaly accessible.

I have been to many dinners with and without alcohol and the best discussions occur when people drink a few glasses of beer or wine, when it gets cozy and people are slowly forgetting about their daily problems ... and that is when you notice that "the moment counts... now is now and tomorrow is tomorrow".

We are not saying here that you have to be smashed all the time, nor do we say we only drink alcohol for the taste. But a reasonable amount is great medicine that lets you and the others forget about routine and enjoy a nice evening out.

AND YES, you can have great discussions when people are a little drunk. I can still think clearly, the others can, and even german girls can mostly control themselves after a few glasses (bottles). (actually I had some of the best romances when I was a little drunk )

Alcohol is not killing you Ace, it is not liquid heartpoison. One day your life will be so full of obligations and problems that you wont have any chance to always fully relax when you want it to.

Of course I would never suggest to you to try alcohol, but every culture has its own drugs to simply calm your mind for a while.

May it be sex, cigarettes, alcohol, spices from Amsterdam, or just a whirlpool... everything may help. But for a dinner or a night at a bar... alcohol is just the most comfortable and common thing here in europe.

[shinRaiden 0]

So it's the alcohol dictating you and your relaxation then. You have the same thing in Japan, where the culture trains people to be so uptight that they can't effectively communicate with each other until they go get sloshed at the sake-ba afterwards. The problem isn't that they aren't drunk (or even mildly enibriated) more often, it's that they're on the wrong track to begin with in terms of human relations.

Now with smokes.

Quote[/b] ]You build up a craving and the release it when you take a smoke.

Well those of us that don't smoke don't have that craving, and we don't have the mental and physical straightjackets that the addicitions bring with them. While you do have the choice to bend an elbow or not, you do not have the choice to pick and choose which consequences will follow, unless you have Washington State courts to appeal to.

The fact that the so-called 'release' is 'needed' is to patch a hole that didn't need to be there in the first place, and the 'solution' actually increases your dependance on the problem. Of course if you don't see it as a problem then it is a totally different arguement.

Quote[/b] ]One day your life will be so full of obligations and problems that you wont have any chance to always fully relax when you want it to.

You have your booze, women, and smokes today, we have our faith in tomorrow. You get hangovers, morning-afters, and stinky clothes. We a whole new day to build on, always looking proactively to the future, rather than reactively responding to physical cravings in the here and now.

[Supah 0]

We a whole new day to build on, always looking proactively to the future, rather than reactively responding to physical cravings in the here and now.

You sound like a management-training instructor

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]It is, but smoking doesn't mean you will get cancer. Not smoking doesn't mean you won't get cancer. There's an elevatated risk, but we're talking about small minorities here.

Why eleviate the risk in the first place?

Isnt prevention better then cure?

Quote[/b] ]If you havn't smoked, how on earth would you know?

My dad and Grandad were chain smokers , i threw away as many cig stubs that you could have made a Taj Mahal out of them , i have asked about it from them. Initially you might get a kick out of smoking but when it develops slowly in to addiction its no fun.

Quote[/b] ]Of course you comperhend and it lasts for a good while. And yes, today there are very few people unaware of the elevated risks to your health, so smokers do indeed think it is worth it.

What do you comprehend about it denoir?

My dad use to smoke a lot during the Gulf war when ever he was worried about his job and stuff so what good does this good feeling does for you apart from luring you in to a false sense of wellbeing or a momentary window of fake happiness/fun whatever. I would rather be a man and face up my problems rather then smoke them off.

Smokers are human beings in the end and not all human decisions are wise or correct. Just because 'they' think so doesnt make them right. I find it stupid and am thankful i dont have to depend on a puff of smoke coming out of mouth to let myself have fun and relax. True relaxation only comes from peace of mind which can only be truly achieved when your in a complete conscious state of your mind and understand that everythings hunky dory, and not drifting in gagaland.

Quote[/b] ]Of course you shouldn't drive when your drunk and people are aware of it and don't do it. You should not be drunk when you do something that requires concentration and motoric skills. You don't however need these things when you are with friends in a pub.

Yeah right how many are aware? How many give a sh!t about it? Nearly everyday people die because of such cases , just a few months ago i read about a women suing a bar for allowing her to drink so much that whenshe drove home and crashed and got her hand cut off it was their fault

When your in a pub or whatever you will eventually head off home wont you? Many people make this mistake of driving from there or parties , a taxi isnt everywhere at everytime. Its a variable situation anything can happen , i'd rather once again be safe then sorry and avoid one wrong and protect myself from thousand others that entail it.

Quote[/b] ]Nonsense. Of course you know what you are doing when you are drunk. You reduce your inhibitions etc, but it's not that you are out of control. You still have your basic awareness and are quite able to interact with the environment. Hundreds of millions of people worldwide get drunk every day and you don't see them dying in large numbers or wreaking havoc in society.

Quite the opposite , it depends on the amount of alcohol intake once again a variable scenario , if your mildly drunk you might have your senses intact but if your highly drunk then forget it people dont even make it past their table then , it truly is not fun whatsoever. You cant interact with your envoirnment that well thats wrong denoir because if you can then why not drive?

Hundreds of people drink everyday true but to different extents all of them as i said its variable. Many fall in the examples i have given and many in the way youve described.

Once again i'll state its the disadvantages which lie heavily against the few broken down advantages and i'd rather not be any part of it and save myself from a hell of a lot other problems. Something which robs your mind of its basic functions is not worth it. I thought you'd have a better grasp of such things coming from whats it called a 'free society' or whatever the new word for it is these days.

Quote[/b] ]You have some very fucked up perceptions of what alcohol does to you.

No i have a 'different' perspective to it then yours. You come from a different society then mine and have your priorites set different then mine. I dont see much fun in such things as being drunk but over there its probably a cultural thing having its roots ingrained back 1000s yrs ago so you see it differently. We used to have it here to one time ago before Islam and the way this place was going was fucked up IMO. Wine/gambling the works certainly wasnt a top class society we had here , and i am glad it came to an end.

@Albert i agree with whatever shinraiden so pardon me for not answering your post , but my response is the same as shinraidens.

[denoir 0]

My dad and Grandad were chain smokers , i threw away as many cig stubs that you could have made a Taj Mahal out of them , i have asked about it from them. Initially you might get a kick out of smoking but when it develops slowly in to addiction its no fun.

You have to be joking. Do you expect your dad to want you pick up smoking?

Quote[/b] ]What do you comprehend about it denoir?

Quite simple. It feels good

Now before you try it, you could not possibly know what it feels like.

Quote[/b] ]My dad use to smoke a lot during the Gulf war when ever he was worried about his job and stuff so what good does this good feeling does for you apart from luring you in to a false sense of wellbeing or a momentary window of fake happiness/fun whatever. I would rather be a man and face up my problems rather then smoke them off.

Who's talking about problems? I'm smoking because I like the effect of nicotine. The same way I eat ice cream, because I like the taste of it. I'm not eating ice cream to cover up my 'problems'.

Quote[/b] ]True relaxation only comes from peace of mind which can only be truly achieved when your in a complete conscious state of your mind and understand that everythings hunky dory, and not drifting in gagaland.

What a load of crap.

Quote[/b] ]Yeah right how many are aware? How many give a sh!t about it? Nearly everyday people die because of such cases , just a few months ago i read about a women suing a bar for allowing her to drink so much that whenshe drove home and crashed and got her hand cut off it was their fault  

And here in Sweden recently a guy killed his wife and daughter because he said that they 'wern't obeying him' and that according to the Quran he had the duty to kill them. Does that mean that the Quran is bad or that the man is a moron as an individual? Should we ban the Quran because some individuals can't handle it? Should we ban alcohol because in rare cases some individuals can't handle it?

Quote[/b] ]When your in a pub or whatever you will eventually head off home wont you? Many people make this mistake of driving from there or parties

No they don't. 30 years ago, perhaps. Not today. Drunk drivings are a minor percentage of the people killed in traffic.

Quote[/b] ]

Quite the opposite , it depends on the amount of alcohol intake once again a variable scenario , if your mildly drunk you might have your senses intact but if your highly drunk then forget it people dont even make it past their table then , it truly is not fun whatsoever.

Yeah and you can eat so much ice cream so that you get sick. Point being that in normal cases responsible individuals can handle it.

Quote[/b] ]Something which robs your mind of its basic functions is not worth it.

You mean like religion?

Quote[/b] ]I thought you'd have a better grasp of such things coming from whats it called a 'free society' or whatever the new word for it is these days.

That's one of the main features of a free society: trust in the individual. The core belief that a human being has a free will that should not be imposed upon. Your life is yours as is your body and your mind and are free to do what you wish with it.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]You have some very fucked up perceptions of what alcohol does to you.

No i have a 'different' perspective to it then yours. You come from a different society then mine and have your priorites set different then mine.

No, I'm taliking from experience while you are citing dogma.

Quote[/b] ]Wine/gambling the works certainly wasnt a top class society we had here , and i am glad it came to an end.

Yeah and you truly have a top class society now  

If you don't want to drink, that's fine. If your culture is against it, that's fine as well. But you can't speak about it with authority unless you've tried it, and you certainly don't have the right to moralize to others about it.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]You have to be joking. Do you expect your dad to want you pick up smoking?

No , but he knows me i will never smoke i am the one who made him leave it so why would he worry about me , i am quite old to figure out whats good and not good for me.

Quote[/b] ]Quite simple. It feels good

Now before you try it, you could not possibly know what it feels like.

Who's talking about problems? I'm smoking because I like the effect of nicotine. The same way I eat ice cream, because I like the taste of it. I'm not eating ice cream to cover up my 'problems'.

Eveyr good feeling is explainable , so explain it to me whats so good about it? For e.g sexual pleasure has a different feel to it so do many others but what makes Cig so good?

So what effect does Nictone have one yoy denoir? Ice cream is good its cool thats why i eat it to cool my mouth and tummy whats makes nicotine worth taking?

Quote[/b] ]What a load of crap.

once again for you maybe not me.

Quote[/b] ]And here in Sweden recently a guy killed his wife and daughter because he said that they 'wern't obeying him' and that according to the Quran he had the duty to kill them. Does that mean that the Quran is bad or that the man is a moron as an individual? Should we ban the Quran because some individuals can't handle it? Should we ban alcohol because in rare cases some individuals can't handle it?

LOL denoir denoir your deviating from the argument here your parable isnt applicable here , religion and its scriptures are BEYOND worldy nonsenses like wine/beer and etc etc.

Religion cant be banned because you cant deny God hes the one who made us , hes above this all its got nothing to do with what a person does here one earth with whats hes been told to do even if hes in complete contradiction.

Wine/beer is something else , it has a different disposition , its man made and is has to do with our will to use it right or wrong , it ends up in wrong more because of weak people and more often because it robs us of our will itself. We own wine not GOD. Argument dismissed.

Quote[/b] ]Yeah and you can eat so much ice cream so that you get sick. Point being that in normal cases responsible individuals can handle it.

Yes and i agreed with it.

Quote[/b] ]That's one of the main features of a free society: trust in the individual. The core belief that a human being has a free will that should not be imposed upon. Your life is yours as is your body and your mind and are free to do what you wish with it.

Exactly thats why God gave us a free mind. You do as you please and reap the rewards/loss later and to some extent in this life too. My mind says if something i take will take away my minds ability to concentrate and my willpower then i better not touch it. Freedom to my mind then.

Quote[/b] ]No, I'm taliking from experience while you are citing dogma.

And your experience is universal ? You claim to have seen it all?

My argument is also based on what i have seen elsewhere , you see ive been elsewhere too ....

Quote[/b] ]You mean like religion?

LoL your intellect on religion is really a laugh , i'll let you in on a little secret Religion invites you to listen and observe things around you and then make up your mind whether you want to believe or not. The choice is yours its never forced upon you. "Let there be no compulsion in religion" Quran.

Quote[/b] ]Yeah and you truly have a top class society now

It could be thousands times worse with the presence of wine so think about how fucked up it could get. Still its not that bad here

Quote[/b] ]If you don't want to drink, that's fine. If your culture is against it, that's fine as well. But you can't speak about it with authority unless you've tried it, and you certainly don't have the right to moralize to others about it.

My culture isnt against it lol it used to be IN TO it sunk sometime ago. I am against it myself. I might have talked about the effects of alcohol on a human being and might have been wrong about it to some 'extent' but all of it is based on what i have come to read and see.If the whole world is wrong in general then forgive me.

I am not talking 'about' it i am talking about the problems which usually entail it later on , go read a book or a newspaper and see how many nuisances and criminal acts are caused by such a thing which is used for fun , reminds us of the rednecks in the american society who want to shoot tin cans with guns for fun too.

And i am definitely not moralizing you about it , just giving my opinion which might be in contradiction with yours SIMPLE enough. Funny how you find it moralizing?

[Akira 0]

Both of you are going to drive brnorway back to smoking.

[ran 0]

I've never really smoked (just the casual cigarette, when I was offered to smoke).

Thr real problem is alcohol ... I have never tried to quit drinking and I doubt I ever will

My alcohol consumption varied from a period to the other in my life but it never caused any real problem and I could, if needed, stop drinking for some time. I've never developped any kind of dependancy to alcohol and nicotine or any other drug for that matter ... except maybe cafeine. It's just a matter of being reasonable and avoiding abuses

[denoir 0]

Eveyr good feeling is explainable , so explain it to me whats so good about it? For e.g sexual pleasure has a different feel to it so do many others but what makes Cig so good?

So what effect does Nictone have one yoy denoir? Ice cream is good its cool thats why i eat it to cool my mouth and tummy whats makes nicotine worth taking?

Ok, as you wish. First there are two basic differences, one is if you don't smoke, then your first smoke will be very strong, intoxicating - similar to being drunk, just very short. Smokers don't expereince it and have generally no desire to do so.

The second one that smokers get is a tension relieving effect. It is unique, but I'd place it in the same category as sex or the feeling when you take a piss after holding it in too long. It is a climatic form of releasing tension. (A smoke is a very mild form of it).

Quote[/b] ]LOL denoir denoir your deviating from the argument here your parable isnt applicable here , religion and its scriptures are BEYOND worldy nonsenses like wine/beer and etc etc.

Religion cant be banned because you cant deny God hes the one who made us , hes above this all its got nothing to do with what a person does here one earth with whats hes been told to do even if hes in complete contradiction.

Wine/beer is something else , it has a different disposition , its man made and is has to do with our will to use it right or wrong , it ends up in wrong more because of weak people and more often because it robs us of our will itself. We own wine not GOD. Argument dismissed.

On the contrary, nicotine and alcohol are very real substances that affect your very real body. Religion is bullshit written down in a book by people probably smoking a lot stronger stuff than cigarettes.

Quote[/b] ]You do as you please and reap the rewards/loss later and to some extent in this life too. My mind says if something i take will take away my minds ability to concentrate and my willpower then i better not touch it. Freedom to my mind then.

Any form of pleasure disconnects the neocortex (the analytical part of the brain). It's how we are wired. You can't feel intense pleasure and think clearly at the same time. Endorphines do that. And it doesn't matter if it's taking a smoke, relieving a full bladder, getting a good workout, eating a good meal or having sex.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]No, I'm taliking from experience while you are citing dogma.

And your experience is universal ? You claim to have seen it all?  

My argument is also based on what i have seen elsewhere , you see ive been elsewhere too ....

..but you havn't smoked or drank alcohol, so you have no way of relating to how it is. You simply don't have that experience and can't speak with any authority on it. It's like if you've never tasted chocolate and go telling everybody that it tastes bad.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah and you truly have a top class society now  

It could be thousands times worse with the presence of wine so think about how fucked up it could get. Still its not that bad here  

Or the other way around. We drink and our society has not fallen apart. On the contrary the quality of life is second to none.

Quote[/b] ]I might have talked about the effects of alcohol on a human being and might have been wrong about it to some 'extent' but all of it is based on what i have come to read and see.

Not to some extent, but more or less everything of it. You are taking extreme examples. Yes, you can abuse alcohol, but that's not what people on average do. And average people get drunk from time to time, without the society going under. Just as you can abuse alcohol, you can abuse anything.

Quote[/b] ]I am not talking 'about' it i am talking about the problems which usually entail it later on , go read a book or a newspaper and see how many nuisances and criminal acts are caused by such a thing which is used for fun

Very few. And that's what you don't seem to understand. Alcohol is widely used. People get drunk all the time, and the problems that come with it is very minor. Drunk criminals? Come on get a grip.

Quote[/b] ] reminds us of the rednecks in the american society who want to shoot tin cans with guns for fun too.

Guns are made for killing people and they have lots of people getting killed. It's an actual problem. People getting drunk and wreaking havoc is an imaginary problem. There are no wide-spread alcohol-related problems in society. Sure you have a very small minority of alcoholics, but that's generally their private problem and does not affect soceity.

I'm telling you, you have some very strange and false perceptions about what alcohol does to you and on what scale.

[shinRaiden 0]

Your mental discipline is your religion, and the cravings you have evidently impact it as you have stated that the so-called relaxation helps your mental activity.

Quote[/b] ]We drink and our society has not fallen apart.

Or it could be rephased as "Despite our self-centeredness expressed in our desire to hand over personal responsibility and self-control to the bottle, society has been lucky to survive in one piece."

Quote[/b] ]On the contrary, nicotine and alcohol are very real substances that affect your very real body.

And of course the response is that you're ignoring half of 'your very real body', but that's not a debateable topic here as there is far too much other OT traffic involved.

Quote[/b] ]Yes, you can abuse alcohol, but that's not what people on average do.

So the reason people light up and bend the elbow is to pass the buck of dealing with life's problems to something else? Has it ever occured to you that that is only denial of the problems, and that they will still be there?

Quote[/b] ]People getting drunk and wreaking havoc is an imaginary problem. There are no wide-spread alcohol-related problems in society.

Either you live in a remarkable area or you have a pretty low standard of expectation for life. Every family that I know that has had a family member who drinks or smokes has had it impact their relationship significantly. When people turn to addicting stuff in an effort to drown out their awareness of things that are not just going to go away, that's not being honest and resolving the issues now is it?

Religion on the other hand, which you so virilantly dismiss out of hand, expressly focuses on building the personal and societal character needed to deal with and resolve daily life's concerns.

Quote[/b] ]Now before you try it, you could not possibly know what it feels like.

True, but you can judge as to what effect it will have. I have no idea what it is like to have killed someone - since I haven't - but does that automatically disqualify me from commenting on it since I have no 'experience' in that area?

Quote[/b] ]Guns are made for killing people and they have lots of people getting killed.

I have a pellet gun sitting up on a top shelf in the garage. It hasn't moved on it's own volition, nor do I expect that it ever will. It has no consciense, and it is an inanimate object devoid of life or thought. Now if I picked it up and put a pellet in to it and shot something, I would be obligated to deal with the consequences of it, whether picking up a plinked can, or getting rid of a starling body, or going to prison for assualt, depending on what I choose to shoot.

On the other hand, if I choose to drink or shoot up before hand, I'd have pretty good odds in this state for getting off as my 'impaired' judgement was clearly 'not' my own volition. A lot of local judges (who have serious drinking problems themselves, a state supreme court justice for example plowed into a couple parked cars and tried to drive off after a party in Seattle a couple years back) are of the opinion that you can just write off personal responsibility so long as you are drunk or high, and that is only indicative of the societal attitudes at large.

[brgnorway 0]

Both of you are going to drive brnorway back to smoking.  

hehe........the hell they are. Seriously, that's the funniest comment all day - and I'm still laughing.

I believe a few things have to be said:

First of all: you do not get a "kick" out of smoking! It only helps you feel good - like any habitual doing. If anything it can make you dizzy if you haven't eaten and smoking is the first thing you do in the morning. It is hazardous in the long run but it also makes on feel comfortable - especially in the way that it never makes you feel bored when you have nothing else to do. Smoking is like "doing something" .

And no, I'm not going back to it! I already feel much better without it. Yesterday I decided to walk home from work. That's exactly 9.6 km (measured with bicyclecomputer) and I felt so good. I usually walk more than that during an ordinary walk with my dog - but not in this pace - and not after 8 hours at work. I felt very good and used 1 hour and 10 minuttes.

And then there's alcohol! I have to say I feel slightly conserned about a discussion on alcohol and not beverages with alcohol. This all reminds me so much about a very northern european phenomenon that drinking and being intoxicated is more important than the taste of good wine and good beer (and XO Cognac/brandy of course) .

This is especially so in the scandinavian countries.

Some time ago scientists (I'll see if I can find it) presented the results of a survey about drinking and sexual debut. Very interesting it was too!

There was a marked difference in sexual debut and the use of alcohol between countries in the south of europe and those in the north. The further north the earlier sexual debut - and in most cases the youths had been significantly intoxitated by alcohol. In the southern nations such as Italy and Spain almost none reported early debut and use of alcohol. Various cultural factors could explain the findings and the researchers highlighted the fact that youths from the south of Europe understood lack of control due to a large amount of alcohol would be shamefull. Not so in scandinavia though where being drunk - and very often something to bragg about - is the norm and socially accepted.

Sorry for all the typo's - I've just had a wonderfull "Indian Pale Ale" beer - and I'm not drunk at all. Going to bed cya tomorrow!

[shinRaiden 0]

Good to hear. Fresh air does wonders, or so my mom says. Guess I'll have to check it out sometime, though I like my cave.

[GoOB 0]

This isn't meant to offend anyone in anyway, but what is THIS?

Quote[/b] ]Either you live in a remarkable area or you have a pretty low standard of expectation for life. Every family that I know that has had a family member who drinks or smokes has had it impact their relationship significantly. When people turn to addicting stuff in an effort to drown out their awareness of things that are not just going to go away, that's not being honest and resolving the issues now is it?

Religion on the other hand, which you so virilantly dismiss out of hand, expressly focuses on building the personal and societal character needed to deal with and resolve daily life's concerns.

My mother smokes and my father "snuffs" if that says anything to anyone of you. Both of my parents are addicted to these things, they are indeed. But it never had ANY impact whatsoever on our relationship. I don't smoke myself, but the best conversations I have had with my mother have been had in our backyard, often late at night and my mother smoking a fag.

It's not like snuff (chewing tobacco, more or less) or cigarretes "drown out your awareness of things that aren't going away". Wer'e not speaking about heroine, or cocaine here. Sure, some get "nicokicks" the first few times they smoke. Which to make them woozy and a bit dizzy. But after a week of smoking those "kicks" aren't there anymore, just the habit, or the addiction of smoking.

My parents both started at about 16 years of age, they both say they don't want to quit, since it feels good for them. It's much like any habit you have, like my habit of sleeping for an hour after I get home from school. I couldn't get by without it. My father has quit temporarily now though, since snuffing was hampering his stamina. Which prevented him from doing what he likes to do the best, hiking.

And what gives you the right to say what solves problems? Only a few people I know have found comfort in religion, it too can build false hopes.

None of my friends that drink each weekend do it to feel good the morning after, they do it to enjoy themselves and relax a bit more. Which can be quite hard after a week of sitting stiff in chairs looking at books. It doesn't make them forget their day-to-day problems, it helps them concentrate on having fun and socializing. Instead, of like me obsessing about more or less trivial things that troubled me during the past week.