M21 and SVD fire power

[sanctuary 19]

From my ingame experience, i always thought that the SVD Dragunov was a bit more powerfull than the M21.

I even approved there was a real difference ingame when i hit targets in the chest , noticing that i had more chance to kill them in one bullet in that part of the body with the SVD than with the M21.

But ...

This was before i begin to give a look to the config.bin turned in config.cpp version thanks to the CoC BinView.

After looking for the ammo defintions (CfgAmmo) and weapon definitions (CfgWeapon) , i ended to find that the only differences between the M21 and the SVD are in the zoom department , the sound, the ammo number by magazine and the model/optics graphics.

The M21 and the SVD seem to share the exact same ammo and weapon definitions .

And unless there is a definition that i have overlooked or not found yet, it should mean that the M21 is exactly as powerfull as the SVD ?

So it was a dream that the SVD was ingame more powerfull than the M21 , was i alone to think there was a difference of fire power between those 2 sniper rifles from ingame tests ?

Funny to see that this fact i was so sure about was after all just in my head.

[stgn 39]

Well I have allways considered the SVD to be more powerfull too but I must edmit that the M21 kills just as good how ever the zoom(and Scope) on the SVD is better mainly do to the fact that when you zoom fully whit the M21 the bullet dosen't hit center of the sight. But the real reason why I consider the SVD more powerfull is the fireing sound the SVD sounds cool and the M21 sounds dumb.

I always use the M21 mostly cause of the 20 shots v 10 in the SVD eventho I like it better.

I think its kinda the same thing what Rifle you like better the M16 or AK74 I always crab hold of the M16 if I can get one cause I condsider it better, more accurate and cooler But I know that there realy is no difference OFP vise.

STGN

[SEAL84 0]

Well I have allways considered the SVD to be more powerfull too but I must edmit that the M21 kills just as good how ever the zoom(and Scope) on the SVD is better mainly do to the fact that when you zoom fully whit the M21 the bullet dosen't hit center of the sight.

That's because you're not supposed to zoom in all the way.  You're supposed to bracket the target with the horizontal hash marks - line the top one up with the top of the target's head and line the bottom one up with his feet, move the crosshair to where you're aiming (head, for example), then lower your aim just a tad to account for the recoil.  

When I actually started using the ART the right way....the number of head shots I took went up dramatically

Right way to range:

Wrong way:

I thought this was in the OFP instruction manual

[stgn 39]

Well I have allways considered the SVD to be more powerfull too but I must edmit that the M21 kills just as good how ever the zoom(and Scope) on the SVD is better mainly do to the fact that when you zoom fully whit the M21 the bullet dosen't hit center of the sight.

That's because you're not supposed to zoom in all the way.  You're supposed to bracket the target with the horizontal hash marks - line the top one up with the top of the target's head and line the bottom one up with his feet, move the crosshair to where you're aiming (head, for example), then lower your aim just a tad to account for the recoil.  

When I actually started using the ART the right way....the number of head shots I took went up dramatically

Right way to range:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v422/seal84/rightscope.jpg

Wrong way:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v422/seal84/wrongscope.jpg

I thought this was in the OFP instruction manual

cool thanks I diden't knew that I don't remember reading about in the manual but then again it been along time.

STGN

[edejl 0]

How about someone show how to use the other scope properly, with the arrows...I read the manual but now I've forgotten what it means exactly, I have the jist tho.

[stgn 39]

How about someone show how to use the other scope properly, with the arrows...I read the manual but now I've forgotten what it means exactly, I have the jist tho.

Shearch Avonlady's FAQ for Dragunov and you will find a decription of the scope and a Manual for the SVD(the real one).

STGN

[gandalf the white 0]

SVD will likely be more powerfull, even if it was just because it's russian

never understood the sights though , the M21 has that advantage

[stgn 39]

SVD will likely be more powerfull, even if it was just because it's russian  

never understood the sights though , the M21 has that advantage  

Funny I alwys liked the SVD scope better.

STGN

[InqWiper 0]

I think there are 2 different bullets. BulletSniperW and BulletSniperE. Place a civilian in the editor and give him an eventhandler that shows how much damage he takes.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

this addeventhandler ["Hit",{hint format ["%1",_this select 2]}]

When I shot him in the leg with M21 it said about 0.110 damage and when I shot him in the leg with Dragunov it said something like 0.055 if I remember right.

[stgn 39]

I think there are 2 different bullets. BulletSniperW and BulletSniperE. Place a civilian in the editor and give him an eventhandler that shows how much damage he takes.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

this addeventhandler ["Hit",{hint format ["%1",_this select 2]}]

When I shot him in the leg with M21 it said about 0.110 damage and when I shot him in the leg with Dragunov it said something like 0.055 if I remember right.

Try shooting him different places.

STGN

[sanctuary 19]

I think there are 2 different bullets. BulletSniperW and BulletSniperE. Place a civilian in the editor and give him an eventhandler that shows how much damage he takes.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

this addeventhandler ["Hit",{hint format ["%1",_this select 2]}]

When I shot him in the leg with M21 it said about 0.110 damage and when I shot him in the leg with Dragunov it said something like 0.055 if I remember right.

That is strange.

In the config the only values defined by the BulletSniperW and BulletSniperE are the tracers colors (and they are in fact defined with exactly the same values for both weapons)

The BulletSniperW and BulletSniperE both use the values of the same class "BulletSniper" that modify itself the values of the "BulletSingle" class , that already modify he values of "Default"in the CfgAmmo class.

So as their values/definitions are exactly the same , there is no reason the damage would be different according to the config values.

Unless there is something not present in the config file that change something between SVD and M21 ingame.

[AgentFox2 0]

Unless there is something not present in the config file that change something between SVD and M21 ingame.

Yes, the player.

Interesting discussion.

Perhaps sometimes before we even start playing a game, we have a weapon preference in our mind. Maybe we want it to be better, and so subconsciously we either fabricate or influence our reality to reflect that?

Wow, philosophy in OFP.

[USSRsniper 0]

SVD is better i like it not because its russian but because its easier to aim at moving target

[bn880 5]

Odd, I also seem to notice the SVD has more power, and never for a second did it cross my mind they could be the same ammo, hmmm.

funny

[Hitman 10]

In real life, they should be equal powerful but in OFP, I find it that the SVD kills with 2 shots max. when the M21 might even take 3-4 shots. They are the same caliber and all so why does the SVD do more damage? Ive looked trough all the documents I have about sniper rifles and still haven't found anything that might affect the damage in either rifles.

OFFTOPIC: is it true that in OFP, if you run lets say 5km with a sniper rifle, the aim in the scope isn't that accurate anymore? As if the settings of the scope would have moved while running?

[ozanzac 0]

I've always thought the SVD had slightly greater power in a trade off to the M21's larger magazine.

Also, I've always had this niggling feeling that the players Rank and/or skill setting has an effect on the amount of damage a bullet from any weapon has on an opponent.

[USSRsniper 0]

Hitman^

same thing with t80 NOT ONLY svd! T80 is faster then abrams but in OFP

its like you need less shoots in t80 then in abrams... but in real life i dont think that ABRAMS can survive hit with  125mm antitank shell   in weak spot... but in OFP squad of abrams always win squad of t-80 even if they have lower skill then t80   and you only noticed SVD ?? LOL

[Ares1978 0]

In real life, they should be equal powerful

Just about. In terms of kinetic energy (and depending on the application), the Russian military loads are more powerful.

(source: Cartridges of the World, 9th Edition)

[Shalashaska 0]

SVD is a bit too mathmatical to use the scope.

M21 is idiot proof. Even an idiot could pick it up and have some general understanding of how to use it.

At least ingame. Have no hell of an idea about real life but I can see choosing the SVD over the M21 if you know how to use it.

[stgn 39]

Hitman^

same thing with t80 NOT ONLY svd! T80 is faster then abrams but in OFP

its like you need less shoots in t80 then in abrams... but in real life i dont think that ABRAMS can survive hit with  125mm antitank shell   in weak spot... but in OFP squad of abrams always win squad of t-80 even if they have lower skill then t80   and you only noticed SVD ?? LOL  

And you think a T80 will just be able to take a 120mm SABOT enyplace???

besides normaly tank battels go front to front and here the abrams is stronger.

Besides the M1A1 vs T80 has been discused before I don't remember enything about the SVD and M21.

STGN

[Edge 2]

SVD is a bit too mathmatical to use the scope.

Well, for me the scope of SVD works quite fine. It even works as it does in real world... M21 is somehow "worse", I guess it is the already mentioned "wrong zoom+strange ballistics" issue.

About the ingame power of the sniper rifles - maybe there is a source of disbalance somewhere else in the code, which applies to the whole spectrum of game entities? I mean, some constant "improving" every parameter of East vehicles, weapons etc. (I know it sounds a bit stupid...)

[Hitman 10]

Hitman^

same thing with t80 NOT ONLY svd! T80 is faster then abrams but in OFP

its like you need less shoots in t80 then in abrams... but in real life i dont think that ABRAMS can survive hit with  125mm antitank shell   in weak spot... but in OFP squad of abrams always win squad of t-80 even if they have lower skill then t80   and you only noticed SVD ?? LOL  

Make a topic about T80 vs M1A1 and Ill reply to that.  

Quote[/b] ]M21 is idiot proof. Even an idiot could pick it up and have some general understanding of how to use it.

Maybe BIS meant that to be that way? The SVD as more powerful and more harder to use (to a new guy) and the M21 as the basic sniper?  

Thanks to all the addon makers, we now have a variety of rifles to choose from nowdays.  

[Madus_Maximus 0]

The M21 uses 7.62 x 51mm NATO, it's a powerful round, but it's not as mean as a Russian 7.62 x 54mm which the SVD uses. It's made of stronger material too so it does more damage to the thing it hits, NATO rounds are designed to break up (as in the 5.56) and tumble a bit (7.62). The Russian 7.62 has more tumble damage and causes the body MUCH more shock when hit. Also Russian cartridges tend to have more powder in the rounds that give them a higher muzzle velocity.

P.S.

I personally prefer the SVD scope (POS-1 methinks it's called). Each cheveron is aprox 500m, which is handy, much easier to get longer ranged shots. It's pretty realistic in OFP aswell because the real scope is set so each cheveron = 500m, and also try using it at ranges less than 100m (with the scope), it's pretty damn hard lol, just like the real thing, its zero'd at about 200-300m or so.

[Heavy Metal 0]

The actual ballistic performance of the 7.62 NATO and the 7.62X54r round the SVD uses are so close to one another, there should be no modeled difference in trajectory or terminal performance. Both shoot a 145-150 grain projectile at 2850 to 2900 fps. (unless you are talking match ammo in the 7.62 NATO)

The 7.62 Nato projectile is .308 in diameter and the 7.62x54r round projectile is .311 in diameter.

The reason the SVD magazine is limited to 10 rounds is due to the limitations of using a rimmed cartridge.

[Shalashaska 0]

I think if that was the intent *SVD to be more 'advanced' than the M21*, then it was a very nice touch by BIS.

Then again, Isnt the M21 a weapon made out of nessisity? The Army basically straps on a scope to the M14, limits it to single shot (Removing full auto) and produces it as a sniper rifle. I imagine it would be, real life and ingame, a more rugged and general issue firearm. The SVD would have been designed, from rifle to scope, for sniping. It took awhile for the US to realize sniping was effective, part of the reason Soviets also added someone with the SVD into squads and platoons in the 70s and 80s.

I'd rather have the M21 in closer combat, urban fights and use the SVD in longer ranges, with more traditional sniper-actions.

I noticed with the SVD, though. All I have to do is target with the highest chevron, the tip of its shape, and that seems to always be what hits. Perhaps lots of OPF players would think the M21 targets not in the way as it was instructed to in this topic, because of the playing of much less sim. games like CS or UT and such, where scopes generally are just zooming the ironsights into a crosshair.