The Iraq thread 4

[denoir 0]

Found this interesting from the BBC blog - an interview with a truck driver who was in Iraq:

Quote[/b] ]

...

Last year, Terry and Lee had taken a leave of absence from their trucking company in the US to drive for Halliburton in Iraq. Halliburton had wanted them to stay a year, but both of them came back after only six months because of the worsening security situation. Lee had been back in the US since January of this year, and Terry returned in April.

They hauled military supplies between Nasiriya and Baghdad. The money was good, $2000 a week, but the hours were long, up to 100 hours a week. And they were constantly being ambushed and shot at with roadside bombs, rocket-propelled grenades, mortars, bricks and rocks.

"We were glad to see rocks and bricks," Lee said.

RPG attack

Little children were taught to step in front of the convoys to stop them and set them up for an ambush. "They thought it was a game," he said. They wore Kevlar body armour, but said there was little they could do. They didn't carry guns, and the Army couldn't protect them.

"We were more of a target because we couldn't shoot back," Lee said. Terry had an RPG go past the front of his truck, and Lee had a bullet go through his cab.

"The Lord was looking out for me that day," Lee said. While they were there, 49 truckers were killed.

And, of course, there were the kidnappings, the hostage taking. They were given a small booklet telling them what to do in the event they were abducted, but "they don't care. They will kill you regardless," Lee said. They were shocked by the poverty there. They used to throw MREs, military meals-ready-to-eat, to children along the roads.

But they had to stop because the wind would blow them under the trucks and children would risk running under the moving trailers to catch them.

And they were shocked by Halliburton's spending there. "The taxpayer would be appalled. Waste, waste, waste", Lee said.

If the truck had a flat tyre, they would bring another truck, and a Humvee would come and blow up the old one so the Iraqis wouldn't get it, he said.

'Long haul'

They both said that Iraqi people were thankful for getting rid of Saddam Hussein but now they want us gone.

"They're waving at you during the day and shooting at you at night," Lee said.

But they don't see the US leaving Iraq anytime soon. "It ain't gonna get any better. We're gonna be there for the long haul," he said.

....

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]get a few of those gun toting crackpots raise a bit of violence in Pro-Bush area and then use this logic lets see how TBA likes that

Won't work, you don't have sufficient redneck population concentration in urban areas to do this. The true crackpot militias are all spread out over states like Montana (And even if Montana was removed, it would take away *GASP* 3 electoral votes from Bush).

[sputnik monroe 102]

If an area is too out of control to hold elections in then the Iraqis have no one to blame but your/their beloved "freedom fighters". If any one of the militants bitches about how no elections are allowed in the town they have destroyed I'll snicker.  

    I guess maybe they just got a little confused. I mean when you think about it the best way to show your town is ready, capable, and deserving to particapate in a election is to behead people, blow up work lines and police stations of course. Elections can't be delayed forever on the account of a bunch of thugs and murderers. Screw them.

[Balschoiw 0]

Tock , tock anybody home ?

The USA and it´s coaltion is responsible for the situation in Iraq, don´t you remember ? They´re also responsible for the terrible security situation , don´t you remember ?

I´d like you to go to Bagdad and tell the regular Iraqi Joe who get´s blown up because the US fail to provide any security at all that he himself is responsible for that...

I´d say yopu have an average survival time of 0.2 seconds after your statement.

Shove it !

Edit:

BTW I could beat you dead with all the lies the TBA told the people of Iraq and the world community about the bright future of Iraq....

Look at Bushy ! He still says everything runs great !

Are the US people really that ignorant not to see that NOTHING is running great....except for some companies of course...???

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]´d like you to go to Bagdad and tell the regular Iraqi Joe who get´s blown up because the US fail to provide any security

    You know at some point they are going to have to step up and provide their own security. You say the US failed to provide Joe in your example with security, it could easily be argued that the Iraqis are guilty for not providing their own.  

    Put this paradox in perspective, they want us to leave but they want our security? What are they a bunch of schitzophrinics? " Honestly officer I don't want you patroling my neighborhood, but the blame lies with you if you don't provide me security!". Do you see what I'm getting at?  Or are you just going to pout and tell me to "shove it" again?

     As for how you would like to see my head on a pike so to speak,

Quote[/b] ]d like you to go to Bagdad and tell the regular Iraqi Joe

I wouldn't bother.That would be suicide (which is why you would like to see it). You can't have a rational discussion with an arab unless you are one also, which I am not.  Hell for the most part they can barely have a rational discussion with other arabs. Heck I'd like to see you go talk to joe Iraqi. Do you honestly think they would treat you any better because your German? Do you honestly think they would care what you have to say? Face it if there is one thing you and I share in common it's that we are both infidels in their eyes. For the record I don't wish any harm on you.

      If there is one thing I hate it's the status quo. Though I have to ask how about this plan balschoiw. There are no WMDs there we have destroyed their military. How about we just put good ol Saddam back in power? He'll put them all back in order and the UN can put sancions back on him like it was before. How about that? Would that make you happy? A return to the status quo?

    I hate the status quo. Personally on the day Fidel Castro dies I'll dance a merry jig and watch the following news in excitement. Why? Because it will be the end of the status quo. To see something new happen in Cuba besides Castro smoking a cigar and dressing like GI Joe will be nice. I like to see change.

     I was as happy as a clam when they captured saddam. I was happy because I knew change would take place. Some times change is difficult and painful and sometimes it's not for the better. If you never give change a chance based on the idea that it might turn out bad though, then you'll never see good change occur either.

    Saddam was an asshole I'm happy he is gone. I'm happy the risk was taken that things might get better there without him. The place might get worse I'm not a seer I can't see the future but if left under Saddam the odds are pretty damn good things would have gotten worse, espescially after his sons would take over. At least with out them there is the chance it could get better. Any chance is better than none.

      It's true that taking out Saddam and liberating Iraq wasn't the main reason for going in. I'll be honest it's a side effect. In the end I'm happy with it though. If I find out a serial killer gets arrested on bogus drug charges, I'm still happy because the serial killer is off the streets. Saddam is gone I'm happy. Some one worse might take his place, some one better might. I like those odds, compared to the %99.99 shot that saddams sons would have taken control.

       You know in the long run I think every one is to impatient these days. The Iraq situation has only been going on for a year now. I really think every one needs to give it some time. Sure all through history people have bitched about hard times. I'm pretty sure the WW2 generation said every day "god when will this fucking war end". Back then though at least they had the resolve and patience to survive and see it through to the to the end.  Today people start losing resolve and dignity after 1 week.

       

Quote[/b] ]Shove it !

     Spoken like a true ass hole. I can only imagine the penalty I would have recieved for such a comment.

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]´d like you to go to Bagdad and tell the regular Iraqi Joe who get´s blown up because the US fail to provide any security

    You know at some point they are going to have to step up and provide their own security. You say the US failed to provide Joe in your example with security, it could easily be argued that the Iraqis are guilty for not providing their own.  

    Put this paradox in perspective, they want us to leave but they want our security? What are they a bunch of schitzophrinics? " Honestly officer I don't want you patroling my neighborhood, but the blame lies with you if you don't provide me security!". Do you see what I'm getting at?  Or are you just going to pout and tell me to "shove it" again?

     As for how you would like to see my head on a pike so to speak,

Quote[/b] ]d like you to go to Bagdad and tell the regular Iraqi Joe

I wouldn't bother.That would be suicide (which is why you would like to see it). You can't have a rational discussion with an arab unless you are one also, which I am not.  Hell for the most part they can barely have a rational discussion with other arabs. Heck I'd like to see you go talk to joe Iraqi. Do you honestly think they would treat you any better because your German? Do you honestly think they would care what you have to say? Face it if there is one thing you and I share in common it's that we are both infidels in their eyes. For the record I don't wish any harm on you.

      If there is one thing I hate it's the status quo. Though I have to ask how about this plan balschoiw. There are no WMDs there we have destroyed their military. How about we just put good ol Saddam back in power? He'll put them all back in order and the UN can put sancions back on him like it was before. How about that? Would that make you happy? A return to the status quo?

    I hate the status quo. Personally on the day Fidel Castro dies I'll dance a merry jig and watch the following news in excitement. Why? Because it will be the end of the status quo. To see something new happen in Cuba besides Castro smoking a cigar and dressing like GI Joe will be nice. I like to see change.

     I was as happy as a clam when they captured saddam. I was happy because I knew change would take place. Some times change is difficult and painful and sometimes it's not for the better. If you never give change a chance based on the idea that it might turn out bad though, then you'll never see good change occur either.

    Saddam was an asshole I'm happy he is gone. I'm happy the risk was taken that things might get better there without him. The place might get worse I'm not a seer I can't see the future but if left under Saddam the odds are pretty damn good things would have gotten worse, espescially after his sons would take over. At least with out them there is the chance it could get better. Any chance is better than none.

Ok, let me give you a conter example. As I hate status quo too, I decide for a regime change in the US. Since about 50% of the Americans really want Bush out (incidentally about the same number Iraqis that were glad that Saddam is gone), so I'll call it a liberation.

I have plenty of motivation. The man has started two wars and has a vast array of WMD. He cheated in the last elections, so he might do it again. He is responsible for a lot of human rights abuses  (Gitmo for instance).

So by removing him I'll:

1. Make the world a safer place

2. Liberate the Americans

Hell that's better than Bush's reason for Iraq, so that will have to do.

Ok, so I begin my invasion, and it goes surprisingly well. America has been liberated within a month. The US civilian casualties are around 100,000 - but hey - that's war.

But damn, why aren't the Americans happy? I liberated them, didn't I?

Sputnik Monroe, why arn't you thanking me? You are a free man now!

Oh, but that's just the beginning, now apparently the US military surrenderd a little bit too quickly. In reality they took a lot of their weapons to various militias that now start making trouble for me.

At this point, I'll just quote Bernadotte's text:

Quote[/b] ]

What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, DC, but mainly above the Mason Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, DC and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and Federal troops could not go into those cities?

What if, during the past year, the Secretary of State (Aqilah Hashemi), the President (Izzedine Salim), and the Attorney General (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

What if all the cities in the US were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

What if, from time to time, the US Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by US Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and even pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial over on the Mall? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the US Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, DC, and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

What if municipal elections were cancelled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors?" What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?

Now, Sputnik Monroe, what would you think of me and my invasion. Would you be demanding that I get the hell out of your country? Would you be demanding that I fix what I broke?

[Acecombat 0]

@Sputinik:

Quote[/b] ] You can't have a rational discussion with an arab unless you are one also, which I am not.

Wtf does this means?

Why cant you have a rational debate with an 'arab'? You have trouble talking to them you racist prick?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]You say the US failed to provide Joe in your example with security, it could easily be argued that the Iraqis are guilty for not providing their own.  

Bullshit. The US and coaltion are the ones who ripped the security infrastructure apart and disbanded the military. Average Iraqi Joe has to search for work as he got thrown out of his old one by the US. I do not talk about lack of equipment, lack of trining and lack of interest to work under a puppet government that is only the marionette of the US election boy.

It´s very nice of you to blame the Iraqis for their fate now. You have created the atmosphere of terrorism in Iraq. You have destabilized the country to it´s bones.

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE !

What about all that promises from your disturbed president ?

Any of those fulfilled yet ?

Besides that oil is pooring into pipelines.

You were so generouse to ride Iraq into a wartorn country with no security offside military camps.

I bet they are extremely thankfull.

It´s a very nice move to blame it on Arabs and cultural differences now. But no realistic one. I have coworked with arabs and they are fine people. People like everyone else.

But they don´t smash into your house, arrest your dad and put him to jail on suspect for months and when asked don´t even know where he´s kept, while he´s beaten naked in a prison of US choice.

The only thing they demand is that G.W Bush holds his promises. Promises that were wrong, silly and unrealistic. But they were enough to start a war for. A war that has run totally out of control. And you still claim that Iraqi´s are responsible...

Thank you very much for your opinion...so called opinion....

And about your "Status Quo": Status Quo is that the US election campaign seems to be more important than lives on Iraq´s roads as US troops simply setup "No - go" areas to avoid elector-influencing casualties. That´s the status -quo. Half - hearted, half-minded, doomed to fail.

[bn880 5]

@Sputinik:

Quote[/b] ] You can't have a rational discussion with an arab unless you are one also, which I am not.

Wtf does this means?

Why cant you have a rational debate with an 'arab'? You have trouble talking to them you racist prick?

I don't know, I've had rational discussions with arabs before, I think just yesterday...

You have rational and irrational people in every culture, so I would not jump to conclusions.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

@Sputinik:

Quote[/b] ] You can't have a rational discussion with an arab unless you are one also, which I am not.

Wtf does this means?  

Why cant you have a rational debate with an 'arab'? You have trouble talking to them you racist prick?

Ace, I think you are being too sensitive once again. I think what he is trying to say is that Arabs dont trust noone except Arabs. There is a certain truth in that. IT IS A FACT that currently arab nations are the toughest ones to negotiate with ... too much pride.

This is because part of their culture considers our western values as weak and uncivilised ... not realy the basis for equal talks.

There are many poor nations and regions in the world. But anti-western terorism grew and prospered only in arab countries. There must be a reason for that.

I can blame the US for many things, I can blame Israel for many things too... but that doesnt mean arab nations are innocent in every way.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ] IT IS A FACT that currently arab nations are the toughest ones to negotiate with ... too much pride.

Pride ? Or a bucket full of bad experiences with the occupational forces ? Not to mention the way western forces approach arab tradtions and habits. They simply ignore them...

I´d say the people of Iraq DO have very much reasons NOT to trust the western forces. They can see the results when they go out on the streets every day.

The war in Iraq shattered this trust to dust. And I can understand them very good. Disrespect, that´s what the western forces stand for in Iraq.

[Akira 0]

Interesting article in my paper today. Iraqi Health Ministry came out with a new study indicating (the obvious) that the multinational force's (Coalition) and Iraqi police are killing twice as many Iraqi civilians than the insurgents.

I can try and find the text for an easy cut and past.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]If an area is too out of control to hold elections in then the Iraqis have no one to blame but your/their beloved "freedom fighters".

In direct answer to this claim maybe this read will open your eyes why there is not more security right now.

I´d say it speaks for itself...

Demise of Iraqi Units Symbolic of U.S. Errors

Quote[/b] ]SAQLAWIYA, Iraq -- The police outpost here is supposed to house 90 armed members of Iraq's National Guard. Their job is to keep watch over a stretch of six-lane highway, deterring insurgents from laying roadside bombs and trying to blow up a bridge over the nearby Tharthar Canal.

But when the U.S. Marine commander responsible for the area visited the outpost this month, he found six bedraggled guardsmen on duty. None of them was patrolling. The Iraqi officer in charge was missing. And their weapons had been locked up by the Marines after a guardsman detonated a grenade inside the compound.

The unit's demise underscores the degree to which errors committed by civilian and military leaders during the 15 months of rule by the U.S.-led occupation authority continue to impede the U.S. effort to combat a vexing insurgency and rebuild Iraq's shattered government and economy. Recovering from those mistakes has become the principal challenge facing the United States in Iraq, three months after the transfer of political authority to an interim government.

"We're trying to climb out of a hole," said an official with the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, who spoke on condition of anonymity. American missteps during the occupation, the official said, "continue to haunt us."

The errors have had a major impact on almost every aspect of the U.S. agenda here, from pacifying rebel-held cities to holding elections in January to accelerating reconstruction projects. In each area, past mistakes have made it far tougher to accomplish U.S. objectives and those of Iraq's interim government.

The guardsmen in Saqlawiya, who come from the nearby city of Fallujah, were not always this pathetic. Early this year, their battalion was lauded by the U.S. military for repelling insurgent attacks on the mayor's office and police headquarters in Fallujah. They were, as one Army officer put it in March, "a glimmer of hope in an otherwise dark place."

The battalion disintegrated in April because of an order by the White House and the Pentagon (news - web sites) to have the Marines lay siege to Fallujah -- a decision top Marine officials now acknowledge was a profound mistake. As Marines advanced into the city, the guardsmen were put in an untenable position: Either flee, or join the Marines in fighting Iraqi neighbors -- and risk violent retribution. The guardsmen fled.

When the Marines were ordered by Washington to pull out of the city and hand over security responsibilities to a brigade of former Iraqi army soldiers -- another grave miscalculation, in the eyes of Marine commanders -- the National Guardsmen returned to work. They manned checkpoints and conducted patrols with the former soldiers, who called themselves the Fallujah Brigade.

But before long, an alliance of foreign-born and local insurgents eviscerated both the Fallujah Brigade and the two National Guard battalions in the city.

Soldiers in the brigade who had been former insurgents were either lured back into the resistance or intimidated into submission. The commanders of both National Guard battalions were kidnapped by militants loyal to Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian-born militant who is now the most wanted man in Iraq. One commander was beheaded; the other is missing and presumed dead. As soon as the commanders were captured, the battalions melted away.

Some Marine officers contend that if they had not been ordered to invade Fallujah after the March 31 killing and mutilation of four American security contractors, the city's National Guard battalions and security forces would be functioning. Although both units had incompetents and insurgent sympathizers in their ranks, the Marine officers maintain that the units could have served as a helpful ally to U.S. forces in the effort to squelch the insurgency.

Now, the Marines are trying to reconstitute the two battalions, mustering members to report to outposts in such nearby towns as Saqlawiya. In some ways, it is exactly what the Army's 82nd Airborne Division did a year ago, when it formed the two battalions.

In an attempt to build discipline, guardsmen who do not show up in their desert camouflage uniforms and with their identification cards are sent home without pay. Training and patrolling are secondary. Attendance is the first challenge.

"The soldiers on duty, they will be paid, they will be taken care of," Marine Lt. Col. Gregg Olson, the commander of the 2nd Battalion of the 1st Marine Regiment, told Iraqi Lt. Wissam Hamid.

After Olson's comment was translated, Hamid nodded but his expression betrayed disagreement. "There is a war there," he said, referring to Fallujah. "People are afraid to come to work."

Olson asked about the unit's vehicles, which were stolen by the insurgents over the summer. Had the guardsmen recovered them? Hamid said they had not.

As Olson walked out into the bright afternoon sun, the task ahead was clear to him. "We have to start from scratch," he said.

Not Enough Forces

In early April, as the Marines were besieging Fallujah, U.S. commanders ordered one of the first battalions of Iraq's reconstituted army to join the fight in a supporting role. The commanders figured it would provide the Iraqi soldiers with a valuable lesson. It turned out to be the other way around.

When the soldiers, who had just finished basic training, were told where they were being sent, they staged a mutiny and refused to board transport helicopters. The Iraqis told U.S. officers that they did not enlist in order to fight fellow Iraqis.

Stunned U.S. military officials tried to determine what had gone wrong. According to several commanders, they eventually concluded that it was a mistake to have a private contractor conduct basic training, a concern that had already been raised by some veteran military officers, who maintained that the military would have done a better job. Their objection was ignored by the Pentagon's civilian leadership. Once the soldiers finished boot camp, they were put under the command of U.S. officers whom they had never met.

The officials concluded later that U.S. Special Forces soldiers should have conducted the training and remained with the units during their first few missions, an approach that would have increased the likelihood of trust and confidence between the Iraqis and the Americans.

That conclusion required a wholesale revision of the training system, which delayed the deployment of Iraqi army units. Instead of fielding 12,000 soldiers by June, as the U.S. occupation administrator, L. Paul Bremer, had promised a year earlier, there were about 4,000 soldiers. There are currently about 6,000 in the field.

Although the director of the training effort, Lt. Gen. David Petraeus, has vastly expanded boot camp capacity -- an additional 12,000 soldiers should be ready by the end of October -- the current size of the Iraqi army has placed the U.S. military and Iraq's interim government in a bind.

The top U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. George W. Casey Jr., and the interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, share a desire to flush insurgents out from Fallujah, Samarra, Ramadi and other Sunni Muslim-dominated cities where militants have congregated. But both men want those operations to involve a significant number of Iraqi forces.

With just six active Iraqi army battalions -- three of which have been deployed in the Shiite holy city of Najaf to oppose an insurgency there -- there are too few soldiers to conduct those joint operations.

"We simply don't have enough trained Iraqi forces right now to do what we need to do," said a senior U.S. military official in Iraq who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Senior U.S. commanders in Iraq said they intend to mount assaults against insurgent strongholds in the Sunni Triangle before the end of the year to allow Iraqi police and National Guard forces to reassert control. But the wait for trained Iraqi soldiers to conduct those operations means that they will occur precariously close to January's national elections.

Had the training mistakes been avoided, the official said, "we would have far more options now. We could retake Fallujah. We could deal with Samarra."

Dealing With Sadr's Militia

Another place on the list of no-go zones yet to be pacified is Sadr City, the vast Shiite slum in eastern Baghdad where support runs strong for Moqtada Sadr, the rebel cleric whose illegal militia has become the most serious security threat after the Sunni insurgency.

U.S. diplomats and military commanders have complained in private that Sadr's militia should have been dealt with in the early stages of the occupation, when allegations first surfaced that he had ordered the slaying of a rival cleric. At the time, Sadr's militia amounted to no more than a few hundred young men with guns. Today, it has thousands of members and an arsenal that includes mortars and rocket-propelled grenades.

Although Bremer attempted to rein in Sadr in the spring by closing his newspaper, a move that sparked a fierce uprising by his militiamen, U.S. forces did not capture or kill him as they pledged -- or even dismantle his militia. A cease-fire deal gave Sadr effective control of Najaf.

When Sadr's forces violated the agreement in late July by attacking a police station there, the response by U.S. forces was swift and severe, and ultimately compelled Sadr to withdraw his militia from the city's holiest shrine under an arrangement brokered by Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, the country's top Shiite leader. A condition of that deal was that U.S. troops in the city would be replaced by Iraqi soldiers. As a result, three of the country's six army battalions are tied up there, making it difficult for U.S. commanders to mount joint operations against Sadr's militiamen in Sadr City.

"We've spent a lot of our time and energy dealing with a problem that should have been taken care of months ago," a U.S. commander involved in operations against Sadr's militiamen said.

'Making Up for Lost Time'

When Bremer went to Congress last fall to plead for a massive infusion of U.S. taxpayer dollars to help Iraq, he outlined a blueprint for stability based on far-reaching improvements to the country's shattered infrastructure. In November, Congress approved an $18.4 billion aid package that called for spending nearly $10 billion on electricity, water and sanitation projects. Congress allocated $3.2 billion to train and equip Iraqi security forces.

After taking over from Bremer in late June, U.S. Ambassador John D. Negroponte and his staff concluded that more money needed to go into building Iraq's security forces and generating new jobs. Arguing that immediate concerns trumped long-term development, Negroponte asked the administration to divert $2.3 billion from infrastructure projects to security initiatives, including the funding of Iraqi security forces, and to job programs.

Many U.S. civilian and military officials say the reallocation is long overdue. They contend the occupation authority should have used the aid package to accelerate the training of Iraqi security forces and put hundreds of thousands of unemployed young men to work. By the time Bremer left, just 15,000 Iraqis had been employed with the aid money.

"We think we've found the right balance" with the reallocation, the embassy official said. But the challenge, the official said, "is making up for lost time."

"We should have done this last year," the official said. "If we had, we'd be in a much different, and better, position now."

Welcome to the reality of bogus planning and half-hearted initiative...

Still up for your claim sputnik ?

Wary voices about the trouble in Iraq

Quote[/b] ]The voice of the moment on Iraq is Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. Almost as audible are his fellow Republican senators John McCain of Arizona and Richard Lugar of Indiana.

Hagel was with several guests on CBS's "Face the Nation" last Sunday. Before he spoke, Republican Sen. Jon Kyl, also of Arizona, was given a chance to discuss whether President Bush was talking straight with the American people about Iraq.

Kyl answered, "Absolutely." He described Bush as a leader who "has a firm idea of what he wants to accomplish." He said, "Freedom is on the march." He praised Bush's decisiveness, saying, "Hand-wringing does not win wars."

Hagel had none of that partisan jingoism. He was asked by the host, Bob Schieffer, "Do you think, Senator Hagel, that we're winning?"

Hagel said, "No, I don't think we're winning. In all due respect to my friend Jon Kyl, the term 'hand-wringing' is a little misplaced here. The fact is, a crisp, sharp analysis of our policies is required. We didn't do that in Vietnam and we saw 11 years of casualties mount to the point where we finally lost. We can't lose this. This is too important. There's no question about that. But to say, 'Well, we just must stay the course and any of you who are questioning are just hand-wringers' is not very responsible. The fact is, we're in trouble. We're in deep trouble in Iraq."

We are in such deep trouble in Iraq that when Hagel was asked how long it would take to get an Iraqi army and police force up to speed to secure the country, Hagel said, "It's probably two years."

We are in such deep trouble that McCain, who just a couple of weeks ago was hugging Bush in a show of unity, said on Fox: "We made serious mistakes right after the initial successes by not having enough troops on the ground, by allowing the looting, by not securing the borders." While Bush says on the stump "we are winning and we will win," McCain said, "the situation has obviously been somewhat deteriorating, to say the least."

More important, McCain was asked by his host, Chris Wallace: "Is the President being straight with the American people? Is he leveling with them about just how tough the situation is in Iraq?"

McCain answered, "Perhaps not as straight as maybe we'd like to see. ... It's not satisfactory to just use airstrikes or artillery. You've got to send our troops in there on the ground. And that, of course, means the most difficult kind of fighting. ... I'd like to see more of an overall plan articulated by the President."

On yet another talk show, yet another influential Republican senator, Richard Lugar, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, was scathing. On ABC's "This Week," he said the reason so little of the Iraq reconstruction money has been spent is because of "incompetence in the administration." This was on the heels of Lugar's comments last week at a hearing when he said: "Our committee heard blindly optimistic people from the administration prior to the war and people outside the administration -- what I call the 'dancing in the street crowd' -- that we just simply will be greeted with open arms. The nonsense of all that is apparent. The lack of planning is apparent."

Neither Hagel, McCain, nor Lugar is about to jump the Republican ship. All three were careful to say they still want Bush's policies to succeed. But when three such prominent Republicans issue such pointed statements a month and a half before the presidential election, when they've had enough of hearing "we are winning" from their standard-bearer and when it is Hagel, not Kerry, the liberals, or the left, invoking Vietnam, it is a sign that the administration's policy in Iraq is falling into a tailspin.

Hagel is a Purple Heart Vietnam veteran who worried about Bush's obvious unilateralism in the buildup to the invasion of Iraq. He wrote in 2002: "I can think of no historical case where the United States succeeded in an enterprise of such gravity and complexity as regime change in Iraq without the support of a regional and international coalition."

Two years later, Bush is on the stump, keeping the war simple. His favorite punch line, after depicting John Kerry as a hand-wringer, is "there is nothing complicated about supporting our troops in combat."

Hagel, McCain and Lugar, not just the Democrats, are worried Bush's blindly optimistic and simple-minded invasion is leading to a grave, complex defeat. It is easy for Bush to call Kerry a flip-flopper. But what about those hand-wringing Republicans?

Still up for your claims sputnik monroe ?

It´s all the fault of Iraqi´s, right ?

Well, reality tells a different story. A story of incompetence, a story of wasted chances, a story of headless warmongering and a story of ignoring reality. That´s the US story of the war in Iraq.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Statistics: More Iraqi civilians killed by U.S. than by insurgents

U.S.-led forces are killing twice as many Iraqis -- most of them civilians -- as attacks by insurgents, according to statistics from Iraq's Health Ministry

By Nancy A. Youssef

KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE

Saturday, September 25, 2004

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Operations by U.S. and multinational forces and Iraqi police are killing twice as many Iraqis -- most of them civilians -- than are insurgents, according to statistics compiled by the Iraqi Health Ministry.

According to the ministry, the interim Iraqi government recorded 3,487 Iraqi deaths in 15 of the country's 18 provinces from April 5 -- when the ministry began compiling the data -- until Sept. 19. Of those, 328 were women and children. Another 13,726 Iraqis were injured, the ministry said.

The ministry said it lacked statistics for three mostly Kurdish northern provinces.

Iraqi officials said about two-thirds of the Iraqi deaths were caused by multinational forces and police; the remaining third died from insurgent attacks. The ministry began separating attacks by multinational and police forces and insurgents June 10.

From that date until Sept. 10, 1,295 Iraqis were killed in clashes with multinational forces and police versus 516 killed in terrorist operations, the ministry said. The ministry defined terrorist operations as explosive devices in residential areas, car bombs or assassinations.

While most of the dead are thought to be civilians, the data include an unknown number of police and Iraqi national guard troops. Many Iraqi deaths, especially of insurgents, are never reported, so the actual number of Iraqis killed in fighting could be significantly higher.

During the same period, 432 U.S. soldiers were killed.

Some say these Iraqi casualties are undermining popular acceptance of the U.S.-backed interim government.

"The Americans do not care about the Iraqis. They don't care if they get killed, because they don't care about the citizens," said Abu Mohammed, 50, who was a major general in Saddam Hussein's army in Baghdad. "The Americans keep criticizing Saddam for the mass graves. How many graves are the Americans making in Iraq?"

Iraqi officials said the statistics show that U.S. airstrikes intended for insurgents also were killing large numbers of innocent civilians.

The Health Ministry is convinced that nearly all of those reported dead are civilians, not insurgents. Most often, a family member wouldn't report it if his or her relative died fighting for rebel cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia or another insurgent force, and the relative would be buried immediately, said Dr. Shihab Ahmed Jassim, a member of the ministry's operations section.

"People who participate in the conflict don't come to the hospital. Their families are afraid they will be punished," said Dr. Yasin Mustaf, assistant manager of al Kimdi Hospital near Baghdad's poor Sadr City neighborhood. "Usually, the innocent people come to the hospital. That is what the numbers show."

U.S. military officials blamed insurgents for endangering innocent people by embedding themselves in communities.

Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, a military spokesman, said insurgents were living in residential areas, sometimes in homes filled with munitions.

"As long as they continue to do that, they are putting the residents at risk," Boylan said. "We will go after them."

[Acecombat 0]

@Sputinik:

Quote[/b] ] You can't have a rational discussion with an arab unless you are one also, which I am not.

Wtf does this means?  

Why cant you have a rational debate with an 'arab'? You have trouble talking to them you racist prick?

Ace, I think you are being too sensitive once again. I think what he is trying to say is that Arabs dont trust noone except Arabs. There is a certain truth in that. IT IS A FACT that currently arab nations are the toughest ones to negotiate with ... too much pride.

This is because part of their culture considers our western values as weak and uncivilised ... not realy the basis for equal talks.

There are many poor nations and regions in the world. But anti-western terorism grew and prospered only in arab countries. There must be a reason for that.

I can blame the US for many things, I can blame Israel for many things too... but that doesnt mean arab nations are innocent in every way.

No albert i am not being sensitive here!

Who said all arabs dont trust anyone? Can you verify this as a fact , have you taken surveys ? Have you looked for possibilities over those who dont trust?

Arab nations sure do have some pride problem i will agree i have seen it here , but i have none i dont give a damn about who i am or what colour it doesnt matter. But the question at hand is wtf has it got to do with the Iraqi war? Are you saying Iraq got attacked because iraqis had big egos? They got attacked because their leader was a mental lunatic with a big ego and that seems to be the case with nearly all arab countries , stupid leaders but thats no reason to generalize us all. What about Bush its hard enough getting sense in him or any of his rep party supporters when it comes to this issue and they also hold on to it because of pride they dont wanna admit they are wrong. So shall i generalize the whole of texas all conservatives and the whole american nation for it?

The only reason why anti-westernism spread was (duh) imperialism , invasion by foreign countries of our lands ( i wonder how would you feel about it? ) continued degraded treatement of people on the basis of colour, racism and then religion and then ideological differences. Pride is only a part of it. Count all factors please dont dump it on one side. The west has major faults too the way they dealt with us wasnt fair either in the not so distant past.The hostility isnt one sided its mutual.

And i dont claim Arab nations are bastions of freedom,equality or innocence either.

[theavonlady 2]

Of general interest:

Quote[/b] ]Soldier Blogs Detail Life in Iraq

37 minutes ago

By ELLEN SIMON, AP Business Writer

Iraq (news - web sites) war blogs are as varied as the soldiers who write them. Some sites feature practical news, war pictures and advice. Some are overtly political, with more slanting to the right than to the left. Some question the war, some cheer it. While some military bloggers (or milbloggers) say their commanders have encouraged their online literary ventures, a few say their commanders have shut them down.

For the folks back home, soldier blogs offer details of war that don't make it into most news dispatches: The smell of rotten milk lingering in a poor neighborhood. The shepherd boys standing at the foot of a guard tower yelling requests for toothbrushes and sweets. The giant camel spiders. The tedium of long walks to get anything from a shower to a meal. A burning oil refinery a hundred miles away blocking the sun. A terrifying night raid surprised by armed enemies dressed in black.

Spc. Colby Buzzell and a handful of others write unvarnished war reporting. But many of these blogs have been shut down.

Buzzell's squad was on a mission in a poor neighborhood in Mosul when two Iraqi boys ran up carrying old artillery shells. "Give me a dollar!" they said.

Another came carrying bullets and demanding money.

"Then, all of a sudden, this really skinny Iraqi kid comes running up to us with a f---- HAND GRENADE in his hand," Buzzell wrote on his war blog. " 'Drop the f---- hand grenade! Drop it now!' We all started yelling. The little kid, still with this proud smile on his face that said, 'Look what I just found' just dropped the grenade on the ground, and walked over to my squad leader and said, 'Give me money!'"

The grenade didn't go off.

The squad leader explained to his men that an Army division that had been in the area earlier had paid children for weapons or unexploded ordnance.

For Buzzell, an infantryman in an Army Stryker brigade, it was grist for his online war diary, http://cbftw.blogspot.com, whose fans range from soccer moms and truck drivers to punk band leader Jello Biafra. Before the counter dropped off the site, says Buzzell, he was getting 5,000 hits a day.

Buzzell says he was banned from missions for five days because of the blog and has stopped adding new narrative entries.

On the blogs, soldiers complain, commiserate and celebrate their victories and ingenuity.

What do you do if the electricity goes out while you're sitting in the latrine, leaving you in complete darkness with a dead flashlight? Blog answer: Reach into your cargo pocket and crack open a Chemlight.

The blogs offer more than war stories, they offer images from Iraq not seen elsewhere, like a sign in an office with no air conditioning: "We're in the desert. The desert is hot. Now quit your whining." and a sign on a truck, presumably driven by National Guardsmen: "Two weekends a month, my a--!"

Sean Dustman, a 32-year-old Navy corpsman from Prescott, Ariz., started writing his blog, http://docinthebox.blogspot.com, after reading other war blogs.

"I was entranced with their stories," said Dustman, who recently returned from six months in Iraq. "This was where the real news that mattered to me was coming from, unlike what you saw through the regular media. Reading them (the blogs) helped me and my Marines prepare for the trip."

Dustman started a photo blog, where he'd post pictures of his unit. Relatives visited religiously — and let him know with instant feedback when he wasn't getting new pictures up fast enough. One comment: "Where is my Cody??!!"

Other bloggers encouraged him to write more than photo captions, so he did.

In April, Dustman wrote about flying over Baghdad. "At night there's hardly a flight that there's not someone shooting at you. They can't see the aircraft (hopefully), but as soon as they hear one coming, they come out and shoot into the air. Mainly they're hoping to get a lucky shot in. A tracer flies by a window and we're banking and rolling, which is kinda like gambling, they can't see us, we can't see them either, a great game of Battleship in the sky."

Leaving Iraq, he gave a litany of advice for soldiers heading there.

"The biggest way to save money on a trip to Iraq is to have a quality battery charger," he began. Later, he wrote, "Be nice to everyone. Remember, everyone is armed ...."

A recurring theme is the flashes of military absurdity, such as the hurried martial arts training some Marines undergo before they leave Iraq.

One blogger said his platoon is trying "to qualify everyone in the company for the next belt level in, like, fifteen days with only one instructor (the other having gone slightly nuts and been shipped off for everyone's safety.)" The blogger asked that his name and screen name not be used because he feared disciplinary action.

Jason Hartley called his blog "Just Another Soldier" and wrote unflinchingly about everything from his buddies' families to the conditions on base.

"I think I've been duped," he wrote from a base in October 2003, while his unit was preparing to go to Iraq. "I'm not actually at a modern US military installation, but Sing Sing, circa 1940."

"My commander had a meltdown when he discovered it," Hartley, a sergeant in the New York National Guard, said of his blog in an instant message. "He demanded I take it down."

The Pentagon (news - web sites) has "no specific guidelines on blogging per se," said Cheryl Irwin, a Defense Department spokeswoman. "Generally, they can do it if they are writing their blogs not on government time and not on a government computer. They have every right under the First Amendment to say any darn thing they want to say unless they reveal classified information, and then it becomes an issue as a security violation."

Military bloggers say they're careful not to reveal any information that would be useful to enemies. "Nowhere does either blog say where I was or give out full names of anybody but myself," Dustman said.

One military blogger speculated on his site that the Army would eventually develop a liberal policy on blogging and other instant communication.

"The Internet is such a wonderful tool to keep soldiers connected with their friends and family and has a huge morale impact that prohibiting access would create a huge outcry," wrote Eric Magnell, a lawyer whose blog, http://www.daggerjag.blogspot.com, chronicles his work with the Army as it tries to build a legal system in Iraq. "The Army isn't a sinister organization looking to trample individual freedoms, but, as any large bureaucracy, it can be slow to react to new situations and changes in the environment."

Said Dustman, "Most people do have their minds made up about the war, but bloggers let them know that we're human too, just like them. We're the best way for the public to take a pulse on how we're handing the situation."

Waiting for http://PinsDaSmoka.blogspot.com/.

[Balschoiw 0]

Civilians die as US forces attack 'al-Zarqawi's bases' in Fallujah

Quote[/b] ]US aircraft, tanks and artillery have pounded the resistance stronghold of Fallujah, killing at least eight people and wounding 15, while rebels struck back in Baghdad by killing six police recruits.

The US said that it is hitting the strongholds of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Islamic militant, with pinpoint accuracy, but doctors at the local hospital in Fallujah said at least seven civilians were killed and 13 wounded, including women and children.

The US-appointed Iraqi interim government, which supports the air strikes, last week banned the Ministry of Health in Baghdad from announcing figures for civilian casualties. Television pictures showed a boy and later a woman being rescued from the rubble.

"There were no innocent civilians reported in the immediate area at the time of strike," said a statement from the US military.

"Multinational forces took multiple measures to minimise collateral damage and civilian casualties."

During the night-time assault, with explosions lighting the sky, prayers were chanted defiantly through loudspeakers from the mosques in Fallujah.

Since the US lost control of much of the Sunni heartlands in April, it has developed a policy of keeping up pressure on rebels by sustained air attack. US military commanders are saying that they will retake Fallujah, but the White House probably does not want to launch an all-out assault until after the election in November because it might refocus voters' attention on Iraq.

Insurgents are fighting back in other parts of Anbar province, covering much of western Iraq and including the mid-Euphrates cities of Fallujah and Ramadi.

Four marines were killed in three separate incidents on Friday. Another soldier was killed by a bomb yesterday, bringing to 1,042 the total number of US military killed since the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. A further 7,000 have been wounded.

In western Baghdad gunmen opened fire and threw grenades into a van, killing six new recruits to the national guard, which is a frequent target of attack. The young men had just left a recruiting centre where they had signed up in the Al-Jamayah neighbourhood.

People in Baghdad wonder why recruitment for the police and national guard doesn't take place in camps on the outskirts of the city where recruits would be safe from gunmen and suicide bombers who routinely slaughter them.

In the same part of the city an Iraqi intelligence officer was assassinated and a warning spray-painted on his car. Five mortar shells landed on the giant Oil Ministry in east Baghdad.

The claim by the Prime Minister Iyad Allawi that 14 or 15 Iraq provinces out of 18 are peaceful has been greeted with astonishment by Iraqis who see it as wholly addressed to a US audience to help President Bush win re-election.

The violence outside Baghdad goes increasingly unreported because it is too dangerous for journalists to go there because of the danger of being killed or kidnapped.

The kidnapping of two French journalists, who have still not been freed, in August is leading to an exodus of the French media.

The US networks are very much penned inside their offices or the hotels where they live.

The war in Iraq has turned into a political election scenario for the USA. Does this help ? Or does it do harm to the situation ?

You be the judge.

[Gollum1 0]

I found a blog run by a U.S soldier currently in Iraq here, pretty intense stuff! Just look at this August update, sorry if it's a bit long:

Quote[/b] ]Thursday, August 05, 2004

Men In Black

This is what CNN wrote on their website about what happened yesterday here in Mosul:

Mosul clashes leave 12 dead

Clashes between police and insurgents in the northern city of Mosul left 12 Iraqis dead and 26 wounded, hospital and police sources said Wednesday.

Rifle and rocket-propelled grenade fire as well as explosions were heard in the streets of the city.

The provincial governor imposed a curfew that began at 3 p.m. local time (7 a.m. EDT), and two hours later, provincial forces, police and Iraqi National Guard took control, according to Hazem Gelawi, head of the governor's press office in the Nineveh province.

Gelawi said the city is stable and expects the curfew to be lifted Thursday.

Now here's what really happened:

I was in my room reading a book (Thin Red Line) when the mortars started coming down. Usually when we get mortared it'll only one, maybe two mortars. But this mortar attack went on for almost 20 minutes. Each one impacting the FOB every couple minutes. Something was up. My roommate ripped open the door and yelled "Get your guys, Go to the motor pool! The whole BATTALION is rolling out!" Holy shit, the whole Battalion? This must be big. So I ran over and woke my guys up, yelled, "Get your fuckin shit on and head down to the motor pool! Time: Now!" I grabbed my shit and started running to the motor pool, hearing small arms fire off in the back ground. By now everybody was running to motor pool. Putting their cloths on while they were running. At the motor pool, everybody was strapping on there shit and getting ready. One by one a Stryker was rolling out of the motor pool ready to hunt down whoever was fucking with us. People were hooting and hollering, yelling their war cries and doing the Indian yell thing as they drove off and locked and loaded their weapons. These guys that are attacking us just fucked with the bee's nest, and now they're getting the swarm. As I got the vehicle ready to go I overheard on our radio that shit was hitting the fan all over Mosul, large amounts of people attacking us with small arms, RPG attacks, burned vehicles, and there was a bunch of people in all black armed with AK's over Mosul. Fuck. I overheard one of our iraqi interpreter say in broken English, "Give me gun, I want to kill these motherfuckers!"

As we rolled out the main gate, our FOB was getting attacked, we had soldiers laying down in the prone up on the outer perimeter of the FOB firing there weapons out. We rolled down the main exit out and drove down a busy two way street. I was the T.C. for our vehicle, my job is to be behind the .50 cal, and operate the system, which allows me to fire it. This was only my second day as a T.C. Sitting right next to me out the hatch was my Plt Sgt.. Shortly as we were driving down the main street leaving our FOB, a man, dressed in all black, jumped out from the side corner of a building, pointed his AK47 right at me. Right at my fucking head and all I saw was the fire from his muzzle flash leaving the end of his barrel and brass shell casings exiting the side of his AK as he was shooting directly at me. I heard and felt the bullets whiz literally inches from my head, hitting all around my hatch and 50 cal mount making a "Ping" "Ping" "Ping" sound. I ducked the fucked down in the hatch. I yelled "We're taking fire! 3 O'clock!!! Turned the gun around towards where the guy was and fired a burst. I fired a burst right over our back air guard hatch where our First Sgt was sticking out of and shooting. He yelled "Tell him to stop fucking shooting over my head!!!" Shit. My bad. I looked over and my PLT Sgt who was sticking out the hatch next to me a couple seconds ago was now dropped down from the hatch and now on his back. He was yelling, "I'm Hit! I'm hit!" I looked at his helmet and a bullet went right through his helmet and exited through the other side. Holy shit! I didn't see any blood on him. He looked completely dazed though. He took his Helmet off and observed the holes in his helmet. No fucking shit, the bullet entered his helmet, and exited through the other side, missing his upper forehead by like 1-100th of an inch. A fuckin miricale. He was standing right next to me, that's how close the bullets were from hitting us.

We continued driving. We had to drive to the Mosul Bridge that was right next to the Mosul hotel about a couple miles away. There was reports of a buncha people, wearing all black armed with AK's hanging out there. Our job was to locate and kill them. We were driving there on that main street, when all of the sudden all hell came down all around on us, all these guys wearing all black (Black pants, and a black t-shirts tucked in), a couple dozen on each side of the street, on rooftops, alleys, edge of buildings, out of windows, everywhere just came out of fucking nowhere and started firing RPG's and AK47's at us. I freaked the fuck out and ducked down in the hatch. I yelled "WE GOT FUCKIN HAJI'S ALL OVER THE FUCKIN PLACE!!! THERE ALL OVER GOD DAMNIT!!!" Bullets were pinging off our armor all over our vehicle, and you could hear multiple RPG's being fired and flying through the air and impacting all around us. All sorts of crazy insane Hollywood explosions bullshit going on all around us. I've never felt fear like this. I was like, this is it, I'm going to die. I cannot put into words how scared I was. The vehicle in front of us got hit 3 times by RPG's. I kind of lost it and I was yelling and screaming all sorts of things. (mostly cuss words) I fired the .50 cal over the place, shooting everything. My driver was helping me out and pointing out targets to me over the radio. He helped me a lot that day. They were all over shooting at us. My PLT was stuck right smack dab in the middle of the ambush and we were in the kill zone. We shot our way out of it and drove right through the ambush. The street we were driving down to escape, had 3 to 4 story high buildings all along each side, as we were driving away all you could see were 100's and 100's of bullets impacting all over these buildings. Finally we went over to the area we were supposed to be at. We parked the vehicles there, and dismounted the guys. The Pepsi bottling building across the street was all up in flames. Then after a couple minutes, we were told to load up and go back to where we got ambushed. I'm not going to lie, I didn't want to go back. Fuck that shit, I don't want to get killed. That was the last place on earth I wanted to be. I was scared to death. But we had to go back, and we did.

On the way back I was up out of the hatch, scanning , I saw people running down steets that we passed with AK47's, I didn't have a shot at them with the 50, cuz we were going way to fast and how the gun was positioned. We past several men with a AK's running down a street, I pulled out my Berretta and fired a several shots at them. We rolled back to the area where we all just dodged death, and we were taking fire from all over again. Again, I fired and fired and fired and fired and fired. At everything. We were taking fire from all over. I was just 360ing the 50 cal and shooting at everything. We were taking fire from all over, and every single one of us had our guns blazing. At one time I saw a dog try to run across the street, and somebody shot it. Again, at one time I had the 50 cal traversed and pointing all the way back of the vehicle and I was firing at some guys who were shooting at us up on a rooftop, and I didn't know I was shooting right above the guys heads who were in the back airguard hatchs on our vehicle. My roommate (Sgt from Idaho) tapped my arm, which startled the hell out of me and I quickly jerked back and looked at him and he yelled, "Hey!! Get that gun to the 12!!! Let that one go!! Your doing good!!!" He later told me, when he tapped me on the shoulder, and I jerked back to look at him, I had this crazed look in my eyes that kind of freaked him out.

Hovering up above we had Army Kiowa and Apache helicopters flying around. At one time I had to grad something from outside, and on top of the vehicle. So with my hands I did the sign of the cross thing on my chest, said a prayer (Please god, I don't want to fucking die) and as my Plt Sgt layed down some suppressive fire, I got up out of the hatch, got my whole body completely outside of the vehicle and went over, got what I needed and went back to the hatch, as fast as possible. Scared out of my fuckin mind as I did this. RPG's were still whizzing by and non-stop gun shots were being fired all over. We had our guys in 3rd Sqd dismounted, they had both 240's with them and they were in heavy contact with the enemy, firing AT4's and everything they had at them. Strykers were also launching missiles back at them. I got down in the hatch and started scanning my sector with the 50. Suddenly about 300 meters away I saw 2 guys creeping around this corner, they were hunched down sneaking around hiding behind a stack of truck tires. I could tell by their body language something was up. I placed the cross hairs right on them, but I didn't fire, because I didn't see a weapon on them and I wanted to wait. Next thing you know, I saw another guy come out of that corner with an RPG in his hands. I freaked the fuck out and yelled "RRRPPPPGGGGGGG!!!" My hands was shaking like crazy, my cross hairs were bouncing all over the screen. I gathered my composure as fast as I could, put the cross hairs on them and engaged them with a good 10 round burst of some 50 cal, right at them. Get Some. My Plt Sgt said "good job!". I didn't see anybody move from behind those tires after that. Shortly after that the vehicle parked directly in front of us took an RPG. This gunfight went on for 4 1/2 hours. A Stryker got fucked up with three RPG's, and their TC (The guy who wrote SOF magazine that letter) took shrapnel to the face, and had to go back for medical attention. So 3nd squad was now going to roll in our vehicle because there vehicle was all fucked up and had go back to the FOB to be repaired. The ING's showed up, and they were clearing the buildings on the street. 3nd squad was helping them, and I was providing over watch for them with the 50. Then all the sudden mortars started impacting around us. These bastards were now firing mortars at us.

Time passed and we were extremely low on ammunition and all out of water. My entire DCU uniform was completely wet from sweat and filth. So we all mounted up and drove back to the FOB to get more ammo, water and re-fuel. On the way to the FOB we passed a watermelon stand, all the watermelons had bullet holes in them. In fact, everything on that street had bullet holes in it. The cars, the buildings, everything. There were thousands and thousands of brass shell casings littered all over the streets. Our vehicle was also covered inside and out with brass shell casings and links. Once we got to the FOB, and parked near the motor pool to re-supply, a Sgt ran up to us holding all his gear and his kit and asked, "Hey you guys rolling back out? Do you have room for one more?" This guy who asked us if he could ride with us back out, was in that vehicle that was right in front of us earlier that got RPG'd. They had to drive back to the FOB because the LT was seriously hurt. And now he was now asking us if he could come with, to go give em some more hell. We had no room for him in our vehicle, we were jam packed because we had the guys from third squad with us because there vehicle was out of commission from multiple RPG hits. Since there was no room for him, he gave us all the ammo and his water he had on him, and told us "Go get em." By now it was night, and we were now fully stocked and ready to roll back out. I didn't want to go back out, but you don't have a choice, you have to.

Right when we were about to leave the gate, they told us to go back to the motor poll and stand by. So we drove back packed the vehicles, and waited. I was chain smoking right now, one right after another. My nerves were completely shot and I was emotionally drained and physically exhausted. My hands were still kinda shaking. I was sitting up against the tires by myself on the side of the vehicle smoking a cigarette. I've never been through anything like that. I've never felt fear like that. And I've never seen anything like that. Usually these guys do this hit and run bullshit, but these guys today were on the offensive and showed no fear of us. My friend from San Diego, came over and sat next to me. Asked if I was O.K., and I told him "I don't know." We discussed everything that happened today, how it went down, what he did, what I did, what they did. Then the Battalion Commander came by the motor pool to check up on us and told us all we all did a great job today. Finally they told us to go back to our rooms. I went back to my room, thanked god, and passed out on my bed.

Note: I dont think CNN's report of only 12 dead is accurate.

Quote of the day: "I just want this day to end."

[Homefry 0]

More negatives than positves, as usual.... I'm just curious how the problem can be fixed, or what should be done to get the country into a better position... because bickering about how TBA messed up isn't going to fix anything....

[Balschoiw 0]

Denial of reality does. And that´s what the TBA does right now.

According to Bush everything is running great, only pockets of resistance you know...

That is what does the harm. He is not determined to do anything significant before the freakin election are over. Meanwhile people die. He still hasn´t come up with a plan, something to work with. The plan is missing from day one of this operation. That´s the problem.

As Rumsfeld already indicated US tropps will withdraw from Iraq even , or better say, because the country is totally not pacified.

That´s immoral, that´s stupid and that´s another crime against humanity. They are used to that as it seems.

[Acecombat 0]

More negatives than positves, as usual.... I'm just curious how the problem can be fixed, or what should be done to get the country into a better position... because bickering about how TBA messed up isn't going to fix anything....

I cant believe it that youve said that twice now

Acceptance of ones mistake is the initial step towards getting to a solution , or so i think atleast. If the TBA doesnt even acknowledges the fact that Iraq is now more in trouble now then before , that there are more terrorists formed out of people that didnt even bother to hold a gun before then how can you fix something or anything at all?

According to Bush all is well and only a few rogues are messing with them , judging by that blog it sure doesnt looks like a few rogues i wonder how grateful that soldier would feel about this , all his efforts being shadowed by the ego of the TBA. Since they dont put such things up in public do they now? People wanna see optimism they dont wanna see realism

So what do you suggest Homefry we run clips of Iraqi children dancing in the streets and so forth with roses in their hands playing ring a ring a roses? But oops theres a problem they might die if they stay in the street too long either from a USAF bomb raid targetting 'Zarqawi' (i dont know how many times hes been bombed or his associates from pak-Afg-Iraq but he never seems to die , the guys got many lives or .... ) or bullets from the street skirmishes between rebels and US army.

Be realistic a bit maybe then you could find a solution however if you want to be optimistic and hope GOD solves this one for you then just sit back and enjoy the news cats nothing to worry about atleast not for you or us who are sitting far away from Iraq!

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]More negatives than positves, as usual.... I'm just curious how the problem can be fixed, or what should be done to get the country into a better position... because bickering about how TBA messed up isn't going to fix anything....

You cant "fix" all things! Iraq is and will remain a pretty volatile country for the upcoming decade.

That is why the EU insisted that "no action" is currenty better than "any action".  Or do you believe that Saddam Hussein was so brutal uniquely for the fun of it? You need to keep the people constantly at fear to hold a nation together that doesnt belong together. Lets face it, before the war began Bush probably thought shiite" is an insult with a spelling mistake.

What can be done to "fix" it? Well, we dont know and we dont have to know it since we didnt cause that trouble in the first place.

That was a president who thinks that a military can solve everything and that all people of the world love US soldiers like they love Mickey Mouse.

And as long as the insults and the "we were right" of the republicans continue noone will want to give a helping advise.

Only our sympathy for the soldiers prevent us from wishing the president to miserably fail in Iraq.

And having watched the images of a wounded child on TV this morning made me furious once again ... in the future I need to watch my fists when I hear the words "...but we liberated the iraqi people". The republican voters should become aware of the fact that they have more blood on their hands than they believe.

So the insult "you euros would have done nothing!" is in so far correct as we believe time and serious approaches will bring opportunities and not a military strike.

And for Israel, a volatile Iraq is just as dangerous as a Saddam funding terorist families.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ] Bush probably thought shiite" is an insult with a spelling mistake.

I highly doubt it Albert , he probably thinks thats the correct one  

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ] Bush probably thought shiite" is an insult with a spelling mistake.

I highly doubt it Albert , he <span style='color:red'>probbaly</span> thinks thats the correct one  

That's P-R-O-B-A-B-L-Y.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]BREAKING NEWS

Two Italian women hostages kidnapped in Iraq three weeks ago have been released, the sister of one woman tells CNN. Details soon.

There is some good....