The Iraq thread 4

[Tovarish 0]

To see something new happen in Cuba besides Castro smoking a cigar and dressing like GI Joe will be nice. I like to see change.

He's stopped smoking in the mid 90's and has worn a suit many of his appearences and all his international visits since roughly the same time. It's hard to see change when you're not looking for it. Or is it that you're waiting for another Batista? A "U.S friendly" status quoe

[EiZei 0]

Castro is a pinko liberal humanist compared to some certain regimes propped up during cold war in latin america..

[Tovarish 0]

Castro is a pinko liberal humanist compared to some certain regimes propped up during cold war in latin america..

Exactly. A big improvement over Batista. And who was Batista armed by?Where did he flee after the revolution to spend the rest of his life in luxury?

[kerosene 0]

The embargos only in place because f it wasnt Cuba would've been easily the best place to live in centeral or south america threoughout the 70's and 80's when the c.i.a turned the rest of Latin America into a hell hole. It'd probably be a very succsesful country now if there was no embargo.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

is it realy getting ... better?

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,394373,00.gif

I think this map is worth a look

[Balschoiw 0]

Of course it´s not getting better. US forces have switched tactics from ground patrols to airforce strikes. That´s only showing that they are still there but has no effect on rebels or insurgents. In fact those airstrikes kill more civillians than targets.

It´s the elections in the USA wich make the process halt in Iraq. A miserable failure of the TBA.

It´s more and more areas the US troops avoid. They sit in their camps and even fail to support iraqi forces who get slaughtered by numbers.

Well...you have to understand that...it´s election time...

Once more this shows how incompetent the TBA is in handling the situation in Iraq.

Anyone who claims different is a blind eyed president supported.

The US troops in Iraq indeed could ask their president:

"Why do you hate us so much?"

as he creates a very dangerous atmosphere for his own troops.

[python3 0]

Growing pessimism about Iraq

well, at least the people working for the administration in the CIA and army are getting it. Hopefully the american people and the president will get it soon rather than later

[Tozmeister 0]

There's a little dark part of me that wants Bush to win just to see what a f'king mess he'll make of the rest of the world.

i think the Second American Civil War will not be to far behind....

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]i think the Second American Civil War will not be to far behind....

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Balschoiw 0]

Another bloody day in Iraq:

Dozens killed in Baghdad bombings

Quote[/b] ]At least 35 people have been killed in a multiple bomb attack on a US military convoy travelling through Baghdad.

Police said the first blast appeared to be a car bomb, which was followed by two more as US soldiers rushed to help those hit in the first explosion.

A hospital said it had received many dead bodies, including many children, plus dozens of injured people.

Several US soldiers and Iraqi policemen were also killed in other attacks across Baghdad and elsewhere.

The casualties include:

Two Iraqi policemen and a US soldier killed by a car bomb in the Abu Ghraib district of Baghdad

A US soldier killed by a rocket fired at a US base near Baghdad

A senior policeman shot dead in Mosul

Four people killed in a car bombing in Talafar, according to local medics

At least three civilians killed in a US air strike on Falluja overnight

Reports from Baghdad say it is not clear whether those killed in the multiple car-bombing are children or troops.

The bomb struck near a ceremony to open a sewage station, and as a US military convoy was passing.

"Initial reports that we have is that it was a multiple vehicle-borne improvised explosive device attack in the same vicinity of western Baghdad," said Col Jim Hutton of the US 1st Cavalry Division.

A policeman at the scene, quoted by Reuters, said he had counted at least 33 bodies and said about 50 people were wounded.

Hospital sources gave higher figures.

In Abu Ghraib, a car bomber drove into a US military checkpoint near the mayor's office and a police station at about 0945 (0545 GMT), the US said.

It sent shrapnel flying around near a busy junction milling with crowds of people, an interior ministry spokesman told Reuters.

A doctor spoke of 60 people injured.

"This despicable act killed not only a multinational forces soldier, but Iraqis who were merely going about their business of defending this country," Col Hutton said in a statement.

"The terrorists offer nothing but destruction."

'Arms store'

In Falluja, doctors said at least three people were reported killed in a US air strike. They were said to include at least one woman and one child.

The US army said in a statement it had targeted supporters of the Islamic militant, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who is blamed for a string of kidnappings and suicide bombings.

"Several intelligence sources reported that Zarqawi terrorists were using the safehouse at the time of the strike to plan attacks against Iraqi citizens and multinational forces."

It said "significant secondary explosions during the impact" suggested arms had been stored in the house.

Up to eight people were reported injured. Witnesses said two houses were destroyed and four others damaged.

Thursday's attacks on US and Iraqi security forces come as part of an upsurge in violence in Iraq ahead of the US presidential election in November, and Iraqi elections planned for January

Thank god the situation is improving Mr. Bush.

Just think of it. The Iraqis are so lucky to have peace, freedom and democarcy.

Well at least the Pentagon speaks a different language than the liar Bush:

Pentagon Iraq strategy 'failing'

Quote[/b] ]A key element of the current US strategy in Iraq, the training of Iraqi forces, is still proceeding too slowly, a new report by a US think-tank says.

Iraqis will not be able to take over the most demanding security roles until late 2005-06, the Center for Strategic and International Studies' report says.

The report was published by a respected military analyst, Anthony Cordesman.

Many experts have said that the Pentagon does not have an effective strategy to deal with the insurgency.

Even Bush administration officials regularly concede these days that the violence in Iraq has increased and that it could, and may even be likely, to get worse still as the planned election there gets closer.

Pentagon's headache

A former Pentagon official, Mr Cordesman is now a senior analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

His report says it will be a race to have enough Iraqi security forces ready in time for January's planned election.

Behind the scenes Pentagon officials say what's unfolding on the ground in Iraq at the moment is a mixed approach to the insurgency depending on local circumstances in different areas.

Political negotiations in one location, air strikes and other types of military operations in, say, parts of Baghdad, and a waiting game in other areas, preparing for more Iraqi security forces to become available.

But if those forces aren't going to be ready in sufficient numbers in time, both to take on and, more importantly, to hold some of the more sensitive trouble spots, what's the calculation then?

Might it be feasible to put off further large scale military action and perhaps accept that it won't be possible to hold an election in the worst trouble spots?

Or would that be a sign of weakness that only adds to the momentum of the insurgency?

In which case, does some form of new offensive with all its attendant risks have to take place?

For the US military and the Iraqi authorities, the political and military equation isn't getting any easier.

Tata !

Finally someone who speaks fact and not that unrealistic bullshit Bush repeats over and over like a little puppet with an inbuilt record player...

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Reports from Baghdad say it is not clear whether those killed in the multiple car-bombing are children or troops.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....9

Quote[/b] ]

Baghdad Bombings Kill 35 Children

1 hour, 37 minutes ago   Top Stories - AP

By ALEXANDRA ZAVIS, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Three bombs exploded at a neighborhood celebration Thursday in western Baghdad, killing 35 children and seven adults, officials said. Hours earlier, a suicide car bomb killed a U.S. soldier and two Iraqis on the capital's outskirts.

The bombs in Baghdad's al-Amel neighborhood caused the largest death toll of children in any insurgent attack since the conflict in Iraq (news - web sites) began 17 months ago. The children, who were still on school vacation, said they had been drawn to the scene by American soldiers handing out candy.

The blasts — at least two of which an Iraqi official said were suicide car bombs — went off in swift succession about 1 p.m., killing 42 people and wounding 141 others, including 10 U.S. soldiers. The bombs targeted a ceremony in which residents were celebrating the opening of a new sewage system, and a U.S. convoy was passing by at the same time, said Interior Ministry spokesman Col. Adnan Abdul-Rahman.

"The Americans called us, they told us, 'Come here, come here,' asking us if we wanted sweets. We went beside them, then a car exploded," said 12-year-old Abdel Rahman Dawoud, lying naked in a hospital bed with shrapnel embedded all over his body.

.....

In the al-Amel bombings, grief-stricken parents wailed over the bodies of their children at the Yarmouk Hospital morgue. One woman tore at her hair before pulling back the sheet covering her dead brother and kissing him.

One man carried his younger brother — both legs bandaged — to the hospital, where some children were put two to a bed because of the many wounded. Outside, women sat on the ground and wept as they awaited news about their children.

The hospital received 42 bodies — including those of 35 children — and 131 wounded, said Iyhsan Nasser, head of the facility's statistics department.

At the site of the blasts, body parts were strewn in the streets amid pools of blood. A U.S. helicopter evacuated some of the wounded while other aircraft circled overhead and soldiers sealed off the area.

Lt. Col. Jim Hutton, spokesman for the U.S. 1st Cavalry Division, said 10 American soldiers were among the wounded.

Another spokesman, Maj. Phil Smith, said the first two explosions targeted the ceremony, while the third was aimed at a nearby Iraqi National Guard checkpoint. The Americans said all three blasts were from car bombs; Abdul-Rahman said two were suicide car bombs and one was a roadside bomb.

"This attack was carried out by evil people who do not want the Iraqis to celebrate and don't want (reconstruction) projects in Iraq," said Iraqi National Guard Lt. Ahmad Saad.

[billybob2002 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...._asylum

Quote[/b] ]

Iraqi Girl, 15, Granted Asylum in U.S.

Thu Sep 23, 5:48 PM ET

WASHINGTON - A 15-year-old Iraqi girl who claimed persecution in Baghdad because her family cooperated with the U.S. military has been granted political asylum here.

The girl and her mother, who asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation against other family members still in Iraq (news - web sites), received the letter Thursday from the Citizenship and Immigration Services, according to Jeff Sullivan, their Washington lawyer.

"They're very ecstatic and grateful, but are still concerned about the rest of their family," said Sullivan of Foley & Lardner. The mother is now pursuing asylum for the father and three other children still in Baghdad, he said.

The case is believed to be among the first U.S. instances of an Iraqi seeking political asylum. Some lawyers have said the victory could open the door for other Iraqis in the United States who claim persecution for reasons other than the standard causes of race, religion or political opinion.

The girl came to the United States last year with her mother for treatment of a cancerous growth in her cervix. The two subsequently applied for political asylum, citing death threats after family members provided "actionable intelligence" to the U.S. military on Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s cohorts, according to Army Col. Frederick Gerber, who submitted an affidavit in the case.

[Wilco 944]

There's a little dark part of me that wants Bush to win just to see what a f'king mess he'll make of the rest of the world.

i think the Second American Civil War will not be to far behind....

Wierd how you think we're going to go into a second civil war while you sit in England. Why do you think this now?

Weep 'em man, it's America  

[Wilco 944]

Snipers say U.S. ties angered comrades

Quote[/b] ]

Military probe claims they were deemed traitors

Hailed as heroes by U.S. troops in Afghanistan

BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH

OTTAWA BUREAU

OTTAWA—Hailed as heroes for their crack shots in the mountains of Afghanistan, a group of decorated Canadian snipers were considered traitors by their fellow soldiers for the simple reason they worked alongside American troops.

That's the troubling allegation behind a new probe under way by the Canadian military.

André Marin, the Canadian Forces ombudsman, has been given the task of finding out why the snipers were treated so poorly by their colleagues.

In an unprecedented request, Gen. Ray Henault, chief of defence staff, has asked Marin to probe the treatment that is blamed with forcing a few of the snipers from the military.

"It's the first referral we've received by the chief of defence staff," Marin said yesterday.

"The chief of defence staff is concerned about the nature of the complaints that he's heard and he wants an independent investigation to get to the bottom of it," Marin told the Star.

"These are very serious allegations," Marin said.

For the countless American soldiers whose lives were saved by sharp eyes and crack shots of the snipers, the Canadians were seen as heroes.

But other Canadian soldiers resented their close affiliation with the American troops and made no secret of it when the snipers returned to their base in Afghanistan and then home to Canada, a source told the Star.

The ombudsman said the abilities or the heroism of the snipers is not being questioned.

"They did a fabulous job over there. Everyone recognizes that they were heroes," Marin said.

The snipers, members of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, 3rd Battalion, were sent to Afghanistan in late February 2002 as part of the first deployment of Canadian Forces in that country after a U.S.-led coalition launched its war against terrorism.

More than 20 kills were unofficially accredited to the snipers during Operation Anaconda in Shah-i-Kot Valley.

Five of the snipers were nominated for one of the highest awards given by the United States military — the Bronze Star, two of them with Vs for Valour, marking exceptional bravery. But in what was a signal of the troubles they were encountering, awarding of the American medal was delayed by Canadian protocol officials.

News of the investigation was bittersweet for the father of one sniper, who suggests his son, now on medical leave, was denied the assistance he needed after the mission ended.

"It's dangerous work and as far as I'm concerned they need to be treated properly.

"They need counselling, they need all sorts of things," said the father, who asked not to be identified.

Asked if his son was denied those services because others resented his close work with the Americans, he responded, "I think that's a fair statement."

"I know how my son was treated in Afghanistan and upon his return to Edmonton. It wasn't appropriate," he said.

Maj. Rita LePage said the forces conducted its own internal investigation into the snipers' complaints but wanted an independent probe to ensure nothing was overlooked.

Marin said he's been given "carte blanche" for the investigation and hopes to report on his findings in a few months.

On a separate front yesterday, Marin also warned that the military will have a hard time adding 8,000 new recruits unless it overhauls a recruitment process marked by long delays and inflexible rules that turn away good candidates.

Marin launched a probe of military recruitment after receiving 570 complaints over the past five years from people frustrated by the hiring practices.

"What we're hearing so far are complaints about delays, about the too-rigid interpretation of entrance rules, about the need to show a little more compassion before rejecting applications," Marin said.

Marin said yesterday the system is ill-equipped to make good on the Liberal election promise of adding 5,000 soldiers and 3,000 reservists.

One of the main gripes is that applicants are left waiting for months, even up to a year, before they learn whether they've been accepted into the military — a delay that forces many to accept work elsewhere.

However, the officer in charge of recruiting said most applicants find out in seven weeks whether they've been accepted.

Col. Kevin Cotten made no apologies for the strictstandards.

"We're talking about enrolling somebody into the military of the country, not somebody to flip hamburgers," he said.

Link

[Balschoiw 0]

Blabla and what has this to do with Iraq Wilco ?

 

Maybe you can post some sucess stories from Iraq also. Cheering crowds, flowers and such...

Quote[/b] ]Weep 'em man, it's America

Yeah. Big killings daily. No fees, just step on the road and enjoy your personal airdrop scenario. Serving Iraqwide now....

Weep ém , it´s Iraq

[Wilco 944]

Blabla and what has this to do with Iraq Wilco ?

 

Maybe you can post some sucess stories from Iraq also. Cheering crowds, flowers and such...

Quote[/b] ]Weep 'em man, it's America

Yeah. Big killings daily. No fees, just step on the road and enjoy your personal airdrop scenario. Serving Iraqwide now....

Weep ém , it´s Iraq    

Will be more then happy too.

Quote[/b] ]CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq (Sept. 23, 2004) -- Call it the kinder side of the war effort.

While Marines combat anti-Iraqi forces, I Marine Expeditionary Force chaplains distribute pallets worth of books, toys and various other donated goods to combat poverty throughout the Al Anbar Province.

"Project Handclasp is a unique organization that allows American service personnel to act as ambassadors of good will," said M. Charles Tevelson, director of Project Handclasp. "I feel honored that Project Handclasp is able to make a contribution of this magnitude."

Since its inception in 1962, the program has received humanitarian, educational and goodwill material from individuals, service organizations, religious organizations and industry throughout the United States. Major donors include Johnson & Johnson and the Catholic Daughters of America. The project relies on Navy ships to get the donated items to needy people worldwide. Deployed sailors and Marines distribute most of the goods.

In Iraq, I MEF Headquarters Group chaplain Cmdr. Emilio Morrero requested support from Project Hand Clasp. The project responded with 75 pallets - or $50,000 worth - of aid for the region.

The pallets are packed with books for schoolchildren and adults, sewing machines, medical supplies, stuffed animals, friendship bags and writing and copier paper.

"We have soccer balls, we have sewing machines, and even Tylenol for children, and an array of different things to try to meet a need in a local community," Morrero said, adding that far more is coming from the project.

"Through Project Hand Clasp, we can show up initially and make a direct impact - leave them something ... that reminds them that we were there, that reminds them that we care, that we will be back, and we're going to be true to our word and be true to these promises we made them."

I MEF Marines will continue these humanitarian missions throughout their stay here, he said.

"One of our ultimate goals here is to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, and this is one concrete way for us to do this," the chaplain said.

Quote[/b] ]FORWARD OPERATING BASE KALSU, Iraq (Sept. 24, 2004) -- Amidst fighting, capturing enemy insurgents, dodging improvised explosives on the roadside, and finding hidden weapon caches used against coalition forces, Marines take every opportunity to do what they can for the innocent people of Iraq who have little but suffered much.

In one such humanitarian mission, Marines from Marine Expeditionary Unit Service Support Group 24 undertook to bring food, water and other items to local families in the town of Musayyib. Loaves of bread, pudding snack packs, peanut butter and jelly, bottles of water, small radios, backpacks, coloring books with crayons, T-shirts, and CDs were just some of the items Marines distributed to the community.

http://www.usmc.mil/marinel....%20.JPG

http://www.usmc.mil/marinel....%20.JPG

I don't care if you were being sarcastic either

God Bless America

[Balschoiw 0]

US forces don´t even step into Fallujah right now. They´re hiding in their bases shelling the town occasionally and dropping bombs in regular intervals. Great sucess...really.

Looks like they are really up to regaining control...

I wonder how you can fade out reality. It´s not about sarcasm, it´s about letting a country drift into civil war. And that´s what is happening right now in Iraq, just in case you don´t realize.

Just in case your patriotic eyes missed it:

Study: Insurgent attacks in Iraq widely spread

Quote[/b] ]US study's conclusions ran contrary to picture Allawi painted of Iraq during last week's visit to US.

WASHINGTON - Insurgent violence in Iraq affects nearly every major population center and is more widespread than Iraqi government officials describe, according to a study by a private security company with access to US military intelligence and its own informants in Iraq, The New York Times said Wednesday.

"If you look at incident data and you put incident data on the map, it's not a few provinces," said Adam Collins, a security expert and the chief intelligence official in Iraq for the Las Vegas-based Special Operations Consulting-Security Management Group Inc.

The group said more than 2,300 attacks of all types have been directed over the past 30 days against civilians and military targets, averaging about 80 a day and affecting areas from Nineveh and Salahuddin provinces in the northwest to Babylon and Diyala in the center and Basra in the south.

The number of attacks was lower than a peak in April, when they averaged 120 a day, but not a single Iraqi province went without an attack in the 30-day period, the report said.

The study's conclusions ran contrary to the picture Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi painted of his country during his visit here last week, when he insisted that 14 of Iraq's 18 provinces "are completely safe, there are no problems."

The US government has also attempted to put Americans at ease over the ongoing violence in Iraq, especially considering voter confidence prior to the November 2 presidential election, but lately it has warned of a possible surge in insurgent activity aimed at derailing President George W. Bush's chances of reelection.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell warned Sunday that the insurgency in Iraq was "getting worse" and could hinder the organization of Iraqi elections planned for January.

The Washington Post on Wednesday said a growing number of career professionals within national security agencies also believe the situation in Iraq is much worse, and the road to success much more tenuous than is being expressed in public by top Bush administration officials.

People at the Central Intelligence Agencies "are mad at the policy in Iraq because it's a disaster, and they're digging the hole deeper and deeper and deeper," said an unnamed former intelligence officer who maintains contact with CIA officials.

"There's no obvious way to fix it. The best we can hope for is a semi-failed state hobbling along with terrorists and a succession of weak governments," he added.

"It is getting worse," said an Army officer who served in Iraq and communicates with comrades in Baghdad. "There are things going on that are unbelievable to me. They have infiltrators conducting attacks in the Green Zone. That was not the case a year ago."

Welcome to Iraq 2004.

Thank youz very much Uncle Sam, represented by G.W and his incompetent crew. Thank you very much.

[Wilco 944]

US forces don´t even step into Fallujah right now. They´re hiding in their bases shelling the town occasionally and dropping bombs in regular intervals. Great sucess...really.

Looks like they are really up to regaining control...

I'm not saying you're lying or anything like that, just asking a serious question, where did you find this information out? I'm sure I'm blind and not looking in the right spots to find such information.

Regaining control isn't going to be an easy job amigo, and it's not going to take months, but years to do it.

God Bless America

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'm not saying you're lying or anything like that, just asking a serious question, where did you find this information out?

I just read the news....

US troops haven´t been on ground in Fallujah since April/June. Where have you been ?

Do some googling on "US fallujah tactical retreat"

[Wilco 944]

No kidding they haven't been in Fallujah, but you make it sound like they are randomly shelling the area like it's some god damn bingo map.

Do you hate The United States of America and the men and women in it's armed forces, or do you just dislike the person who leads them and this country?

You can piss and moan all you want, but you're not changing alot by doing so, really.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]No kidding they haven't been in Fallujah, but you make it sound like they are randomly shelling the area like it's some god damn bingo map.

That´s exactly what they are doing right now. They have no intel about fallujah hidouts or targets right now. That´s fact.

And they do bomb and shell the town daily. I´ve experienced such tactics on my own so it wouldn´t surprise me if it goes exactly like this in Fallujah right now. Hospital reports indicate that this is exactly what is happening and even an iraqi governmental official released a report about it that has been taken back on pressure of ..well...guess... government. Just switch back a few pages in this thread and read.

Quote[/b] ]Do you hate The United States of America and the men and women in it's armed forces, or do you just dislike the person who leads them and this country?

I don´t even feel tempted to answer such a bullshit question.

Just fulfill your proposals, that´s what I ask for and that´s what the people in Iraq ask for. I was not the one who started the war in Iraq. It was your government, so ask them why they hate their country so much, not me.

Quote[/b] ]You can piss and moan all you want, but you're not changing alot by doing so, really.

So ? Do I have to shut up because it doesn´t fit your line of blind-eyed support for a war without plan and a war influenced and controlled by election reasons ?

It´s sad that people outside the US have to oppose the war as the US people seem to fail in that.

I don´t have to justify anything to you. I do serve for democracy and I do serve for the freedom of people in other countries. I guess I have a lot of plus on that side, but I also do see when something is going down the drain, and that is what is happening in Iraq right now.

You may feel to fade it out. Your deal. But even US soldiers die for that bullshit and at least this should make you activate the remains of the non-patriotic infected brain you have.

[Akira 0]

Do you hate The United States of America and the men and women in it's armed forces, or do you just dislike the person who leads them and this country?

Holy crap! I haven't heard that BS is a LOOOOOOOONG time...

[Balschoiw 0]

Was about time it popped up again. Whenever you miss facts to argue just open the "why you hate us so much" drawer.

Unfortunally that is not that uncommon with US people. They have the best example sitting in the White House...

Freedom fries for everyone...

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Wow after 4 threads it looks like we are at the same place in the argument. Although I could be wrong, and I usually don't help matters any by my opinions. It just seems there is such a strong anti-american feeling around the world. I really do not understand what was ever wrong about protecting your country, but then again I was never a smart one. I do fully support our troops in Iraq, and as my B-day nears this October, I plan on joing the Air Force, to do my part, for my country. At this point in time, I am seroiusly considering voulentering to go to Iraq. I want to do my part, for something I believe in. I have no disrie to be killed or even kill, but I will try to do wht my country asks of me. It just makes me sick that our troops get such a bad rap in Iraq. I really do not care if other countries like the war or not, it's not their saftey I am concerned with. Uhhg, this is a terrible post..........

[EiZei 0]

I really do not care if other countries like the war or not

So why should have Iraq cared in 1991 about your opinion when they attacked kuwait?

Or why should China care about your opinion on Taiwan?

Or why should have USSR cared about your opinion on cuba missiles?

etc.

Quote[/b] ]

I do fully support our troops in Iraq, and as my B-day nears this October, I plan on joing the Air Force, to do my part, for my country.

Flying well above dropping laser guided munitions in the middle of towns on rpg and ak waving insurgents.. brave you.