The Iraq thread 4

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Their religion will not allow it.

Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Just a quick introductory quote:

Quote[/b] ]Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

- Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, explaining why one of his first orders after taking power in Iran was to censor pictures of himself smiling

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Their religion will not allow it.

Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Just a quick introductory quote:

Quote[/b] ]Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

- Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, explaining why one of his first orders after taking power in Iran was to censor pictures of himself smiling

since when did Khomeni become synonimous with Islam?

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

DOR, you've had enough warnings and bans, but because of placebo's generosity, you are back. however, should you try to incite with your rhetorics, you are not welcome.

Let me tell you something buddy, I do not believe I am breaking any forum rules, and if not you have no right to tell me to shut it. If I can't share my views what the point of even being here? So if you have to ban me, then do it. Let's let the board be filled with anit-american voices, who even gives a care?

Quote[/b] ]You contradict yourself..

Britian is one of those "weak european countries" as you put it and "america  is the only one who stands for what it believes in"  then you go and name 3 countries, 2 of which are european, 1 of which was colonised by europeans, that are "standing for what they believe in". If peoples' views make you feel sick, then they're probably right.

Nope, I said most European nations. Not all. Most are afraid to act alone, afraid to offend. Scared that it might cost them something.

Quote[/b] ]So the British Empire should have had the right to keep you as their colony by force since you 'just hate what they represent' and because you conducted unsportsmanlike guerrilla warfare?

Uh yeah.......

Quote[/b] ] supported the war but I don't believe such shallow rhetorics you keep repeating constantly.

I do however believe the US military has a role in keeping the peace in the world and forcing it if necessary, like Bosnia and Kosovo where Europe proved it's military and political weakness in the initial 'peace-enforcing' phase. But in every sense Iraq is an invasion of a country and not similiar task than the previous.

I do not think it is the job of the U.S. to keep peace in the world, not our place at all. TO defend our selves is the job of the military. Your right, Iraq and Kosovo are two different things. To me Kosovo was a place Americans did not belong, they were nt hurting us. Those people over there were fighting eachother, the muslims and the "christians". Ofcourse we sided with one group, which both were bad, but if we should have took no side.

Quote[/b] ]How can't you see that they are not fighting for your perception of the word freedom. They fight for whatever reasons they find suitable against the occupiers and use barbaric death-despising tactics against their own people regardless the cost. I think this has shocked must of us on this forum. The invasion caused them to resist the US, not what you represented before the war.

I know they are not fighting for my idea of what freedom is. They are figthing for what they believe in, and I do give them credit for that, it's more than most people will do. Though Iraq just gave them a place to fight the U.S., not to "resist" us.

Quote[/b] ] already posted about those foreign fighters 2 times. Can´t you read ?

No.

Quote[/b] ]Who are you to know that ? Have you even been to any ME country in your life ? What do you know about the muslim world ?

I know they hate Americans, and don't give me some crap that they don't. That the only reason they fight us is becuase we invaded Iraq, or something like that. Thats just stupid. The religion the practice will not allow true freedom, nor for any other beliefes to be allowed.

Quote[/b] ]Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Ill give it to you, I have not done hours of research on the religion. Still, when a whole group of people hate you(of the same religion), even people who are not from the ME, commom snese should let you know something is not right. Read the Koran, how it talks of killing the infadales.

Quote[/b] ]What ? Yes , I go okay with not starting another world war. Europe was in flames for more than 2 times and yes, we have learned from that. Yes, we practise tolerance before we bomb someone back to stoneage. If you see that as weakness YOU have not taken part in the evolutionary process of understanding.

Tolerance to terrorism? To me that is an unacceptable concept.

Quote[/b] ]Defend itself ? In Iraq  

Against what ? Huh ? Tell me what threat did Iraq pose to the US !

Tell me !

All this shit-phrases and so called war - reasons you are accounting for. Tell me ! Wich of them have turned out to be true ?

Has any Iraqi soldier killed anyone within the borders of the USA ?

Was anyone aboard the 9/11 flights Iraqi or were the planners for the attack Iraqis or is AQ an iraqi organization ?

Defend ? Against what ? Specify !

Heh. Saddam hated the U.S., you really think he was not/would not help the terrorist?

Quote[/b] ]Proof ? Last time I checked the reports said that the children were called via megaphones to the US convoi. That´s were the bombs went of, at the convoi. The bombs were not at the children. The US called the children to the convoi where they exploded. Purpose ? Yes to kill americans, that was the purpose.

Funny that you don´t say that US kills children on purpose. By your logic they do as they bomb  and shell civillian urban areas. Snipers in Sammarra even shoot people who want to pull wounded of the streets and deny ambulances to pass and help wounded and dying people. You talk of purpose ?

You saying American snipers are doing that?

Quote[/b] ]I dont hate America, but I do hate peole like you.

Good, because if you liked me, then I would probably be doing something wrong.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Their religion will not allow it.

Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Just a quick introductory quote:

Quote[/b] ]Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

- Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, explaining why one of his first orders after taking power in Iran was to censor pictures of himself smiling

since when did Khomeni become synonimous with Islam?

You're right. Care to quote some Wahhabis for us, too, Ralph?

Or maybe some Baath Sunnis?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Their religion will not allow it.

Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Just a quick introductory quote:

Quote[/b] ]Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

- Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, explaining why one of his first orders after taking power in Iran was to censor pictures of himself smiling

since when did Khomeni become synonimous with Islam?

You're right. Care to quote some Wahhabis for us, too, Ralph?

Or maybe some Baath Sunnis?

if you are having hard time understanding my statement, here's a more blunt one.

"one person does not represent entire group"

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Their religion will not allow it.

Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Just a quick introductory quote:

Quote[/b] ]Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

- Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, explaining why one of his first orders after taking power in Iran was to censor pictures of himself smiling

since when did Khomeni become synonimous with Islam?

You're right. Care to quote some Wahhabis for us, too, Ralph?

Or maybe some Baath Sunnis?

if you are having hard time understanding my statement, here's a more blunt one.

"one person does not represent entire group"

I understood you quite clearly. Apparently you don't understand who the Muslim terrorists are that are attacking the coalition and Iraqi forces, as well as the Iraqi civilians and foreigners attempting to contribute to projects that would benefit and stabilize Iraq.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Their religion will not allow it.

Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Just a quick introductory quote:

Quote[/b] ]Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

- Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, explaining why one of his first orders after taking power in Iran was to censor pictures of himself smiling

since when did Khomeni become synonimous with Islam?

You're right. Care to quote some Wahhabis for us, too, Ralph?

Or maybe some Baath Sunnis?

if you are having hard time understanding my statement, here's a more blunt one.

"one person does not represent entire group"

I understood you quite clearly. Apparently you don't understand who the Muslim terrorists are that are attacking the coalition and Iraqi forces, as well as the Iraqi civilians and foreigners attempting to contribute to projects that would benefit and stabilize Iraq.

apparently you forgot that there were no insurgents in iraq prior to US moving into Iraq.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Their religion will not allow it.

Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Just a quick introductory quote:

Quote[/b] ]Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.

- Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini, explaining why one of his first orders after taking power in Iran was to censor pictures of himself smiling

since when did Khomeni become synonimous with Islam?

You're right. Care to quote some Wahhabis for us, too, Ralph?

Or maybe some Baath Sunnis?

if you are having hard time understanding my statement, here's a more blunt one.

"one person does not represent entire group"

I understood you quite clearly. Apparently you don't understand who the Muslim terrorists are that are attacking the coalition and Iraqi forces, as well as the Iraqi civilians and foreigners attempting to contribute to projects that would benefit and stabilize Iraq.

apparently you forgot that there were no insurgents in iraq prior to US moving into Iraq.

That's very nice and true but what does it have to do with Balschoiw's original question to DOR's claim that "Their religion will not allow it", which is what I replied to?

Nice and legitimate quote pyramid forming here.

[ralphwiggum 6]

That's very nice and true but what does it have to do with Balschoiw's original question to DOR's claim that "Their religion will not allow it", which is what I replied to?

having Khomeini as the representation of Islam is like having me represent Springfield.

Quote[/b] ]Nice and legitimate quote pyramid forming here.

i was debating whether I should take 100 posts off per quoting in your reply or not.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ] supported the war but I don't believe such shallow rhetorics you keep repeating constantly.

I do however believe the US military has a role in keeping the peace in the world and forcing it if necessary, like Bosnia and Kosovo where Europe proved it's military and political weakness in the initial 'peace-enforcing' phase. But in every sense Iraq is an invasion of a country and not similiar task than the previous.

I do not think it is the job of the U.S. to keep peace in the world, not our place at all. TO defend our selves is the job of the military. Your right, Iraq and Kosovo are two different things. To me Kosovo was a place Americans did not belong, they were nt hurting us. Those people over there were fighting eachother, the muslims and the "christians". Ofcourse we sided with one group, which both were bad, but if we should have took no side.

So you don't think it was worthwhile stopping the Serbs from wiping out an entire race of people from the Balkans?

Or do you forget that the premise of NATO's involvement in Kosovo was to stop ethnic cleansing, not to simply stop the Balkans war?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Who are you to know that ? Have you even been to any ME country in your life ? What do you know about the muslim world ?

I know they hate Americans, and don't give me some crap that they don't. That the only reason they fight us is becuase we invaded Iraq, or something like that. Thats just stupid. The religion the practice will not allow true freedom, nor for any other beliefes to be allowed.

You think they dislike you for no good reason? They considder you a threat to their values, same as you considder AQ a threat to yours. Some aspects of Western culture clash heavilly with Islamic values so the fact that they're bombarded with stuff that they don't belive is right to the extent that it threatens to engulf their culture and turn it into something else so that they can be considdered more economically viable by the West will undoubtedly piss people off a great deal.

Islamic Fundamentalism isn't about destroying the enemies of Islam, it's about returning Islam to its original values.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Ill give it to you, I have not done hours of research on the religion. Still, when a whole group of people hate you(of the same religion), even people who are not from the ME, commom snese should let you know something is not right. Read the Koran, how it talks of killing the infadales.

An infidel is someone who does not hold a faith. In this case someone who does not follow Islam. Similar sentiments of killing those who do not follow your religion have been expressed by other religions many times throughout history. It's wrong but it's nothing new.

[theavonlady 2]

That's very nice and true but what does it have to do with Balschoiw's original question to DOR's claim that "Their religion will not allow it", which is what I replied to?

having Khomeini as the representation of Islam is like having me represent Springfield.

We're mincing words here. When DOR said "their religion", I took it to mean he was referring to the terrorists in Iraq and not to the entire world Muslim population.

And again, you can add to the Khomeini quote numerous Wahabbi doctrine quotes. These are the 2 main religiously motivated groups which Iraqi terrorists seem to belong to.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ] supported the war but I don't believe such shallow rhetorics you keep repeating constantly.

I do however believe the US military has a role in keeping the peace in the world and forcing it if necessary, like Bosnia and Kosovo where Europe proved it's military and political weakness in the initial 'peace-enforcing' phase. But in every sense Iraq is an invasion of a country and not similiar task than the previous.

I do not think it is the job of the U.S. to keep peace in the world, not our place at all. TO defend our selves is the job of the military. Your right, Iraq and Kosovo are two different things. To me Kosovo was a place Americans did not belong, they were nt hurting us. Those people over there were fighting eachother, the muslims and the "christians". Ofcourse we sided with one group, which both were bad, but if we should have took no side.

So you don't think it was worthwhile stopping the Serbs from wiping out an entire race of people from the Balkans?

Or do you forget that the premise of NATO's involvement in Kosovo was to stop ethnic cleansing, not to simply stop the Balkans war?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Who are you to know that ? Have you even been to any ME country in your life ? What do you know about the muslim world ?

I know they hate Americans, and don't give me some crap that they don't. That the only reason they fight us is becuase we invaded Iraq, or something like that. Thats just stupid. The religion the practice will not allow true freedom, nor for any other beliefes to be allowed.

You think they dislike you for no good reason? They considder you a threat to their values, same as you considder AQ a threat to yours. Some aspects of Western culture clash heavilly with Islamic values so the fact that they're bombarded with stuff that they don't belive is right to the extent that it threatens to engulf their culture and turn it into something else so that they can be considdered more economically viable by the West will undoubtedly piss people off a great deal.

Islamic Fundamentalism isn't about destroying the enemies of Islam, it's about returning Islam to its original values.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Huh ? Explain ! Share your knowledge.

Ill give it to you, I have not done hours of research on the religion. Still, when a whole group of people hate you(of the same religion), even people who are not from the ME, commom snese should let you know something is not right. Read the Koran, how it talks of killing the infadales.

An infidel is someone who does not hold a faith. In this case someone who does not follow Islam. Similar sentiments of killing those who do not follow your religion have been expressed by other religions many times throughout history. It's wrong but it's nothing new.

You are correct, they fight because they feel we are a threat to their values. Which if it is to restore Islam to its original values, that is a scary thing. Look at the history of the religion. Now you can say what you want, I am not aginst people who are Islam, but if you truly look at the religion it is a dangerous thing. The differance between the killing for not believing in Islam, and the killing ofr not believing in other religions is that Islam preaches it. You can't argue against that, that is just how the cookie crumbles.

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]To me Kosovo was a place Americans did not belong, they were nt hurting us.

I fail to see your logic in claiming that stopping the etnic clensing and war which cost 200,000 lives in Bosnia by relatively short bombing campaign was less justified than invasion of Iraq.

[denoir 0]

Although I've tried to avoid wasting my time on DOR, here are a few basic simple facts that I hope he will understand.

1. The Iraqis did not attack you. You attacked them.

The people that attacked you (Osama and his merry men) are sipping tea somewhere in Afghanistan/Pakistan. On 9/11 you were the victims, Osama was the agressor. In Iraq, the Iraqis were the victims, you were the agressor. Osama killed some 3,000 civilians. You have killed tens of thousands of them.

2. Saddam had no WMD and no links to 9/11

On the contrary, it is documented that Saddam, a secular dictator had a mutual loathing for the religiously extreme AQ.

3. The Iraqi resistance are fighting to liberate their country

In September there were on average over 100 resistance attacks in Iraq every day. And yet the US led forces killed twice as many civilians. Sure, there are terrorists in Iraq (notably those that behead people and bomb civilian targets), but they are a minority. The same way that all American soldiers are not like the Abu Ghraib guard, all resistance fighters are not terrorists.

You invaded their country. If Russia invaded the US, would you not be defending yours?

[Acecombat 0]

This thread is becoming a laughing stock so can the mods like please start moderating here?

Quote[/b] ]Their religion will not allow it.

This one had me laughing as well , do you even know how to spell Islam ? Comments here are delivered in such conviction. Truly ignorance is bliss. I see Avon still thinks Islam is whatever Bin Laden or every Muslim villian that crossed this planet is .... ah well some people never change.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]This thread is becoming a laughing stock so can the mods like please start moderating here?

It´s not the mods being responsible for stupidity and ignorance but at least they could have a go for the ones who broke forum rules in a very clear way, like they did that do others.  

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]This thread is becoming a laughing stock so can the mods like please start moderating here?

It´s not the mods being responsible for stupidity and ignorance but at least they could have a go for the ones who broke forum rules in a very clear way, like they did that do others.  

Yes thats what i meant , i dont blame the mods for the ignorant comments.

Its getting a repititive here arguing back and forth over the same thing with people with a similiar frame of mind but a different nick. Its time to move this debate forward.

[Donnervogel 0]

To anyone who thinks muslims are not allowed to have freedom, not allowed to have fun and would fight any infidel should make a trip to Turkey or Egypt. They're muslims too and they do have lots of fun. They do like westerners if they behave good and respectful towards their culture and they have quite some freedom. Maybe not as much as in western countries but they surely know what freedom is ;)

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Heh, I hate this crap. Why do I even bother? Why does anybody even bother? Nobody is going to change their opinions.Besides we all know I am right.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Heh, I hate this crap.

Yeah I know it must hurt to realize that one´s view of the world is too simple and narrow minded to comply...

Anyway, where were you debating us?

We offered you so much facts but you failed to argue even one of it. DOR it is, nothing else. Nice to see that you´re still the same...

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]On the contrary, it is documented that Saddam, a secular dictator had a mutual loathing for the religiously extreme AQ.

I guess he would of been a excellent leader in the war against terror....

Quote[/b] ]

You invaded their country. If Russia invaded the US, would you not be defending yours?

People talking about me posting BS...

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]On the contrary, it is documented that Saddam, a secular dictator had a mutual loathing for the religiously extreme AQ.

I guess he would of been a excellent leader in the war against terror....

Yes he would have. He would have been a great partner. Ruthless as hell and could do various dirty work. In realpolitik terms, he's ideal.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

You invaded their country. If Russia invaded the US, would you not be defending yours?

People talking about me posting BS...

Care to elaborate? You think that Americans have right to defend their country, while Iraqis don't?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]People talking about me posting BS...

Sometimes you have to keep things very basic to make them understandable for let´s say "some guys".

It´s funny you follow your tradition of bobbling in without actually following the thread....

[turms 0]

Again from Billybob; no facts, just "i feel that", just like duke of ray.

[bn880 5]

Heh, I hate this crap. Why do I even bother? Why does anybody even bother? Nobody is going to change their opinions.Besides we all know I am right.

People do change their minds it turns out, especially after a certain age when their brain matures. (it's actual science, not making fun)