International Politics Thread

[Teo 0]

The Queen is a parasite.

Haha. The Brits in this forum are going to love you.

Quote[/b] ]I support a secret police that protects the ruling working class.

Who would they arrest? Will there be executions, concentration camps maybe a guillotine for the sake of it?

Spokesperson you are an extremist. It's a real pity if you believe what you write, what do your parents do for a living?

[NoRailgunner 0]

k@voven your are really count on this "what if next week..." bs?

Beside that - do you judge people only by origin or where they were born or what some media "reports" tell? Maybe its time for you to go and see the real world in your country. Things are never as bad as they seem.

Spokesperson do you get some privileges if you posting such mantras?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Nazis have no theoretical framework behind them. Their ideology is based on belief in their own superiority and the jewish world-conspiracy. It's a violent religion.

A violent religion ?

Are you sure you had a look at the NPD manifest ? I guess you´re just pulling things from your anus again as the NPD for sure has it´s party manifest that certainly does not any of the above you wrote.

Anyway, I´not here to educate you on german ultraright parties but pls do yourself and us a favour and only talk about things you really know something about. Todays ultra-right parties are acting much smarter than you might think, so do the ultra-left parties.

Quote[/b] ]But if you look at PDS they have a very stable theoretical scientific framework. It might not look so, because of all slogans, but there is one.

Now what kind of nonsense is that. "they have a very stable theoretical scientific framework " Oh cool. Where is it ? What are you talking about here. Can you be more specific, or is this only blahblah again. Show me where the PDS has a "very stable theoretical scientific framework" and please enlighten me how this should be transported to nowadays german politics. I for myself can also claim that I have the solution for all people, but I will judged by my plans and the reality factor of that ideas. So far the PDS haven´t even presented a single plan that would have any effect on daily life and is somewhat realistical.

The PDS is ALL slogans and NO content. That´s how it is. Do not try to tell a politically interested german how germanies political landscape is. You may be the internet-google-socialist/communist number one, but as demonstrated this comes with a limitation. The limitation of NOT knowing what you´re talking about.

Quote[/b] ]They can't talk about how society works without being labeled communists.

They can´t talk about how society works because all they got are NO plans, but only slogans. They label themselves communist s and noone in germany has a problem with such. We are not the US with a Mc Carthy background. In germany there is hardly a bad taste coming with the word communist. I could stand at the Brandenburger Tor all day long and shout "Communist!" at people going by. You know what ? Noone would care. If I replace "Communist !" with "Nazi !" I certainly get my physical response. But communist ? This is a joke. Again, you only show that you haven´t the slightest idea on the society in germany and the political developments. The PDS already has publically announced that if they got into power germany will be transformed to a communist country. They retracted that statement because their own voters became brain-hickups after that.

The party is a joke. A criminal joke with quite a history.

Quote[/b] ]SED-money etc, that's up to the bourgeois courts to decide. Who knows if there was money in the first place.

Aha. So they lie all day long, cover up, threaten journalists with legal suites if they report about their criminal acts and it´s then up to the courts ? I´m sorry, but doesn´t this interfere a bit with your all-praised fraternity and working class bull ? Could you pls just for a moment take off your red glasses and read what nonsense you write ? You find a justification for everything but the justifications themselves contradict each other in the most absurd way. You theories don´t hold up with reality Spokesperson. In reality the PDS is no nice player, nor interested in the people. They are interested in power and money as any other politaly party here. There are no good boys that are following your words of wisdom. Reality does simply not match your words. It may be in your private brain-universe but on the ground there´s nothing like that.

Quote[/b] ]Who knows if there was money in the first place.

Sorry but this is just too much...

Up to 2006 16000000 Euro from the SED that have been hidden abroad by Gysi and his SED friends have been recovered and the process is still going on. Again you´re looking a bit like a clown now.

Quote[/b] ]Occupation is never humanitarian. What are they doing in Afghanistan? What did the Bundeswehr do in Yugoslavia? The Bundeswehr is just another agent of imperialism. But on a minor scale.

Occupation ? Where does the Bundeswehr occupy Afhanistan ?!?

We were asked to go there repeadetly by the Afghan government and the afghan people. We rebuild and extend infrastructure there and we take care that the Talibans don´t transport the country into the middle ages again because people there do want us to do that.

In Yugoslavia the Bundeswehr pacified the region and kept conflict parties apart. This contributes to peace, you know. Apart from the rebuild-program the Bundeswehr and furthermore the german police educated and trained local civillians in duties needed for daily life. We didn´t bomb anything to pieces, so you better watch out what you´re saying now as this thing for sure will turn personal if you go on like that. I don´t need no internet knowsitall to tell me what I have done or if it made sense. Go there, do the same, come back and talk. If you only judge things from your milehigh communist cloud you better shut up if you don´t know what you´re talking about.

You better google Bundeswehr and it´s record on humanitarian missions before you open your mouth only for a single inch again.

Quote[/b] ]I support a secret police that protects the ruling working class.

As if the working class ever were the ruling class. Dream on.

Quote[/b] ]Yes, that's no propaganda. But there's propaganda too, and the best propaganda comes with some truths to back up all the lies with. Wherever anti-capitalists gain ground there's a capitalist reaction. And as capitalists own media, they use those means to counter the advance. There's no exception to this in history. Including Germany. If you don't see it, you've fallen into the propaganda trap.

I just fell of my chair laughing. You want to sell us that the Gauck-Behörde is a propaganda gag ?

You sre know what they have there right ? They have all Stasi papers, reports, IM´s, surveilance papers, etc, etc. They have everything. But it´s not made up. Those are the real deal papers. The idea itself that they have made the Stasi archives up for propaganda reasons is simply stupid. I really like to hear your facts about it. No wait, scrap it. Too much nonsense.

Quote[/b] ]The more you work in socialism, the more you get.

For the DDR this is simply untrue. It was about connections and not your personal skill or will. In fact it was quite the other way around. Too many workers for the job that could have been done the same way by fewer people. That´s why there was no unemployment officially. People didn´t even have a choice on what they do. They were told to be mechanic, carpenter or whatever if such were needed. Talking about slaves you could mention the DDR as they had no free will to choose their job.

In fact the DDR is the best example that it didn´t matter if you work hard or not. It had no effect on your career. The "working class rulers" as you call them where a system of corrupt politicians that only took those among their rows that they could benefit from and were loyal to SED. It was no "you are a qualified guy" - decision. It was a decision of sticking to the course and widen the influence.

The husband of the friend I told you about for example was a athlete as well as she was. He had won the DDR masters once and was training at the same sports school as his later on wife. The difference between those two was that she was a member of the SED as her mother had forced her into it and he refused to be part of the SED. The result was that he was not allowed to take part in certain competitions anymore and she was sent abroad to training camps. He was under strict Stasi control while she was able to move around freely.

In the end it wasn´t about hard work or anything of that Spokesperson Humbug. It was about the membership within the ruling political party.

You idea of the system is obviously wrong, as most of your ideas and facts are. I´m pretty sure you will again find some great words of zero content but tbh I´m fed of your nonsense for a while now.

[scubaman3D 0]

hmm i wonder why noone comments that Russians self now 'dropped' the 2-3k deaths tool on SO and adjusted it to ~150 ...

which would easily mean Russians killed more Georgians in Georgia than Georgians killed in 'police/security' operation in SO ...

so much for very well done media war ...

Interesting. Where did you find that info?

[igor drukov 0]

Stalin is definitely no criminal. He was one of the most successful politicians of the last century. People loved him and a majority of the Russian people still do. In the west you learn something completely different about him. Open your eyes instead of repeating hollywood bullshit. And it's quite evident why I don't like Hitler. Or do you really think there's no difference between them?

This is as serious in my eyes as Holocaust denial. It sends chills down my spine to think of the sort of people this person claims to be the spokesperson for. Red Khmers maybe?

On how stalinism and nazism are two forms of one same régime, totalitarianism, the similarities in structures and methods decribed in Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism are baffling.

Of course, this, like the work of renowned historians and philosophers, will likely be dismissed as "Hollywood bullshit". Well, they're pretty high, the standards in Hollywood, these days...

[kavoven 4]

k@voven your are really count on this "what if next week..." bs?

Beside that - do you judge people only by origin or where they were born or what some media "reports" tell? Maybe its time for you to go and see the real world in your country. Things are never as bad as they seem.

Spokesperson do you get some privileges if you posting such mantras?

You don't read my posts correctly.

I judge those 30 or 40 percent that vote for the SED/want the GDR back. And hell I'll stand up on the street and repeat every single word against those parasits!

Voting for Die Linke (SED) is just like voting for the NPD. It's just another extremist group with better rethorics. Nothing else. Luckily I had to work 11 hours today and Bals already wrote some stuff about them. I support every single word.

[Baff1 0]

Pensioners and savers in pension funds are generally no capitalists. If you don't work that doesn't mean you're capitalist. But if you are a capitalist you don't have to work. You can live on the profits.

Pensions of most people are not made up of profits to such an amount that you can live on the profits alone. If you can, then you're a capitalist. But you can be wealthy without being a capitalist.

Quote[/b] ]Capitalists work. You don't.

How? What's their work. What work did they do to get their profit?

We aren't talking about me, you have no clue who I am and what I do. I might be a capitalist myself. Who knows. We talk about society, individuals are not interesting in that context. Or do you think social scientists write a chapter about themselves in every book they write?

Quote[/b] ]Once a house is built. It's built. The worker no longer adds any value to it. He is no longer the reason the house holds value. Or the reason why the value of the house increases.

He is the reason that it holds value. The value of a house doesn't increase if no new work is added to it. The price however can change depending on the market. Price and value are completely different things.

Ownership creates no value. Work is the only thing that does so.

Of course you can say that something is valuable for you, like an emotion. But then you're confusing economic value with other linguistic meanings of the word. There are different kinds of values. Air has a high use value, but no exchange value, and no price.

Quote[/b] ]With regards to workers not needing capitalists, how do you feel about China's economic revolution.

How do you feel about 300 million people, that used to be starving or subsistance farmers, all becoming workers in the last 10 years.

The growth of China's middle classes to 600 million people.

The fruits of foreign investment.

Capitalism in action. Creating workers.

You only have to look at Cuba or the USSR, or any self-managing factory in the dawn of the 21th century socialism in South America. Capitalists are not needed. They are parasites.

According to the stage theory, you can't jump from feodalism to socialism. Or from slavery to capitalism. Capitalism has to be developed enough, the accumulation of capital in the system has to be working, before socialism can be implemented. Capitalism has a role in history, just like slavery had. The nepalese maoists (="stalinists") who won the elections recently, for instance, do not want to nationalize anything at the moment. Their revolution was bourgeois, like the French, they crushed feodalism, and now they have to build capitalism. "Hard-line" communists ("Stalinists") can be supporters of capitalism, free markets and liberal democracy, without contradicting marxism.

Quote[/b] ](*)The Queens wealth is insignificant when compared to the combined wealth of the nation.

Yes, and the wealth of some oil tycoon or Bill Gates is insignificant combined to the world. The Queen is a parasite. But her company is the state, that gives her tax %.

I use the word slavery as an "allegory" (but at the same time not). But the real word to use is wage-slave. If you're interested in a full definition of it you can go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

Are some examples of types of slavery. There's one for every mode of production.

Yes mate. We are talking about you.

When you are willing to face up to who you are, when you are ready for it, you will have something to teach us all.

Until then it's just a one sided discussion where we are all sharing our knowledge with you for no return.

You don't have a house. Ask your dad about house prices, or someone else who owns one. Instead of pretending to know stuff about which you have no experience.

Capitalists work. There are billions of working capitalists on the planet today.

Perhaps you should use Wiki and look up the word capitalism too, or is this another "allegory"?

Price is a score used to quantify value.

Capitalists aren't needed in the USSR?

Then why are they all borrowing so much money from me?

How come they couldn't drill their own oil wells?

Lay their own pipelines?

The oil has always been there. The workers have always been there.

The Queens companies are not the state. She has her own privately owned companies.

[Baff1 0]

Stalin is definitely no criminal. He was one of the most successful politicians of the last century. People loved him and a majority of the Russian people still do. In the west you learn something completely different about him. Open your eyes instead of repeating hollywood bullshit. And it's quite evident why I don't like Hitler. Or do you really think there's no difference between them?

This is as serious in my eyes as Holocaust denial. It sends chills down my spine to think of the sort of people this person claims to be the spokesperson for. Red Khmers maybe?

On how stalinism and nazism are two forms of one same régime, totalitarianism, the similarities in structures and methods decribed in Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism are baffling.

Of course, this, like the work of renowned historians and philosophers, will likely be dismissed as "Hollywood bullshit". Well, they're pretty high, the standards in Hollywood, these days...

There is one fundamental difference between Hitlers regime and Stalin's regime you are missing.

And for me it is the critical one.

Hitler's regime was trying to kill my family. Stalin's regime was on my side trying to kill his.

Stalin was a very much loved leader and a great historical figure. A hero of Europe.

That's not to say all his people loved him, by no means, but not many leaders share the same domestic popularity as he did.

[echo1 0]

There was starvation, mainly in the Ukraine. That's bad of course, but you can't blame the government of the USSR for that.

That's a bit like "There were some gassings in Poland, but you can't blame the German government for that!". No my friend, the government must stand over its actions, and be accountable for when shit hits the fan. In fact, you're criticizing western systems for doing the exact same things the Russians did on a wider scale, except when the Russians did it, it was automatically right somehow.

Quote[/b] ]They had to democratize the agricultural sector.

There was no democratization, just transfering the power from rich owners to government controlled comitees. Either way, the lowly peasants got fucked by the system, the rhetoric just changed...In fact, considering the kulaks were often the most productive farmers, when they were killed, efficiency went down and this is widely considered to be a cause of many of the famines.

[Baff1 0]

It's not that simple.

Communism is the one of the  most effective forms of government in poor or crisis struck area's.

In times of emergency critical resources are nationalised in most if not all countries.

In an emergency a totalitarion regime is able to respond faster and with less dissent.

Unpleasant decisions can be made efficiently and do not paralyse the government as they so regularly do in two party systems.

(They don't have to defer the decison until after the next election or risk being voted out).

The tractor is a massive Soviet icon. They transformed Russian agriculture.

Peasants didn't just get "fucked". I'm sure plenty did, but the country as a whole greatly benefitted.

I'm no scholar of Russian history, but I pretty much guarentee that Famine is one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalpyse.

A natural disaster that has befallen any number of civilisations throughout history.

Blaming it on the government seems a bit weak in my opinion. While governments can certainly attempt to mitigate and have even been known to exaserbate acts of god, they don't cause them.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Communism is the one of the  most effective forms of government in poor or crisis struck area's.

In times of emergency critical resources are nationalised in most if not all countries.

Agree, it can certainly work "for the good of all" better than western systems at times, but that "emergency" time was over decades ago!

A good communism system would know when to loosen its grip, back down and let the people take over again.

edit: typo

[Spokesperson 0]

Quote[/b] ]Who would they arrest? Will there be executions, concentration camps maybe a guillotine for the sake of it?

Spokesperson you are an extremist. It's a real pity if you believe what you write, what do your parents do for a living?

Counter-revolutionaries, i.e. people who want to overthrow socialism. I'm against executions, but pro labour camps.

I'm definitely no extremist. Liberalism is extreme. It's extreme that people are homeless, unemployed, exploited, without political power, and starving.

Quote[/b] ]Are you sure you had a look at the NPD manifest ? I guess you´re just pulling things from your anus again as the NPD for sure has it´s party manifest that certainly does not any of the above you wrote.

NPD aren't nazis officially. Talking politics with a nazi is like talking about god with a religious person.

Quote[/b] ]Now what kind of nonsense is that. "they have a very stable theoretical scientific framework " Oh cool. Where is it ? What are you talking about here. Can you be more specific, or is this only blahblah again. Show me where the PDS has a "very stable theoretical scientific framework" and please enlighten me how this should be transported to nowadays german politics. I for myself can also claim that I have the solution for all people, but I will judged by my plans and the reality factor of that ideas. So far the PDS haven´t even presented a single plan that would have any effect on daily life and is somewhat realistical.

The PDS is ALL slogans and NO content. That´s how it is. Do not try to tell a politically interested german how germanies political landscape is. You may be the internet-google-socialist/communist number one, but as demonstrated this comes with a limitation. The limitation of NOT knowing what you´re talking about.

I know the politics of most western countries. I have it all in my head. PDS is definitely no communist party, but they have communist currents whose theoretical framework is marxism(-leninism). That's scientific socialism, based on rigorous economic theory.

Quote[/b] ]In reality the PDS is no nice player, nor interested in the people. They are interested in power and money as any other politaly party here. There are no good boys that are following your words of wisdom. Reality does simply not match your words. It may be in your private brain-universe but on the ground there´s nothing like that.

PDS isn't interested in the people, they represent the interests of the working class through their politics. The bills by the PDS MP show that in a quite obvious way. You're stuck in a liberal anti-socialist propaganda campaign.

Quote[/b] ]Up to 2006 16000000 Euro from the SED that have been hidden abroad by Gysi and his SED friends have been recovered and the process is still going on. Again you´re looking a bit like a clown now.

So, where did you hear that? What's your source? ARD Propagandaschau?

Quote[/b] ]Occupation ? Where does the Bundeswehr occupy Afhanistan ?!?

We were asked to go there repeadetly by the Afghan government and the afghan people. We rebuild and extend infrastructure there and we take care that the Talibans don´t transport the country into the middle ages again because people there do want us to do that.

In Yugoslavia the Bundeswehr pacified the region and kept conflict parties apart. This contributes to peace, you know. Apart from the rebuild-program the Bundeswehr and furthermore the german police educated and trained local civillians in duties needed for daily life. We didn´t bomb anything to pieces, so you better watch out what you´re saying now as this thing for sure will turn personal if you go on like that. I don´t need no internet knowsitall to tell me what I have done or if it made sense. Go there, do the same, come back and talk. If you only judge things from your milehigh communist cloud you better shut up if you don´t know what you´re talking about.

You better google Bundeswehr and it´s record on humanitarian missions before you open your mouth only for a single inch again.

You got to be kidding me. "Asked by the Afghanistan government"? Of course, it's led by the US/NATO-puppet and former Oil-boss Karzai. Puppet-governments usually don't say no. The will of the afghan people shows through the increased number of NATO-casualties.

Germany had no right to be in Yugoslavia, they were part of the "defensive-pact"-style NATO-aggression in the area. Germany participated in the bombing of Yugoslavia. It's occupation. Being a member of NATO and cooperating with the US shows that Germany is on the side of imperialists, and an imperialist power itself.

Quote[/b] ]For the DDR this is simply untrue. It was about connections and not your personal skill or will. In fact it was quite the other way around. Too many workers for the job that could have been done the same way by fewer people. That´s why there was no unemployment officially. People didn´t even have a choice on what they do. They were told to be mechanic, carpenter or whatever if such were needed. Talking about slaves you could mention the DDR as they had no free will to choose their job.

In fact the DDR is the best example that it didn´t matter if you work hard or not. It had no effect on your career. The "working class rulers" as you call them where a system of corrupt politicians that only took those among their rows that they could benefit from and were loyal to SED. It was no "you are a qualified guy" - decision. It was a decision of sticking to the course and widen the influence.

Full employment is better than unemployment and more work for those who work. Sure, not all could get the job they wanted in the GDR. But you could study and get a job that matched your qualifications that way. Under capitalism not all people can afford getting a higher education, or even get good marks in the elementary schools, because of their financial situation. Furthermore, an unemployed person isn't free to pick a job. And jobs are limited to the ones that are available just like in the GDR. But the difference is that you have no risk of getting fired or get your rights abused. You could plan ahead and live a good life. I know East-Germans too and they have far from your opinions. But knowing someone doesn't matter. People have different interests.

Quote[/b] ]This is as serious in my eyes as Holocaust denial. It sends chills down my spine to think of the sort of people this person claims to be the spokesperson for. Red Khmers maybe?

On how stalinism and nazism are two forms of one same régime, totalitarianism, the similarities in structures and methods decribed in Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism are baffling.

Of course, this, like the work of renowned historians and philosophers, will likely be dismissed as "Hollywood bullshit". Well, they're pretty high, the standards in Hollywood, these days...

That's bullshit. It's what you feel, not how it is, socialism is very different to nazism (or national democracy -they like to use words that are popular -for the moment).

The Red Khmers were funded by the US and China. Socialist vietnam stopped them.

Quote[/b] ]Yes mate. We are talking about you.

When you are willing to face up to who you are, when you are ready for it, you will have something to teach us all.

Until then it's just a one sided discussion where we are all sharing our knowledge with you for no return.

I explained why I don't want to talk about myself. Persons are completely unimportant, arguments are important. It's irrelevant. Besides, it's dangerous, as my opinions warrant a ban on work for me. I know people who had to leave their jobs due to their opinions, the bourgeois secret police wrote a file about them and now they aren't allowed to work anymore. It's called blacklisting.

Quote[/b] ]Capitalists work. There are billions of working capitalists on the planet today.

Perhaps you should use Wiki and look up the word capitalism too, or is this another "allegory"?

Price is a score used to quantify value.

Capitalists aren't needed in the USSR?

Then why are they all borrowing so much money from me?

How come they couldn't drill their own oil wells?

Lay their own pipelines?

The oil has always been there. The workers have always been there.

Then tell me a capitalist that does work. The Queen, if what you say is correct, is a capitalist. How does she work? Which tube of toothpaste did she make? Or how did she organize production, ie make it more efficient? Or maybe she is involved in product design? Tell me.

Yes, the USSR worked without capitalists. However, they still had to follow international intellectual property laws. Trade with companies or countries is completely ok. But no USSR workers were exploited, as there was no surplus value production.

However, I don't think you know the terminology good enough to debate this.

But you have some quite unconventional views on Stalin, for being a citizen of the west.

Quote[/b] ]There was no democratization, just transfering the power from rich owners to government controlled comitees. Either way, the lowly peasants got fucked by the system, the rhetoric just changed...In fact, considering the kulaks were often the most productive farmers, when they were killed, efficiency went down and this is widely considered to be a cause of many of the famines.

Transferring power from a few, even to a government, is democratic. However powere was transferred from a few to those who worked the fields. There were democratic councils all over the place. But naturally, in a planned economy there's a production-quota every factory has to meet. Kulaks were efficient, but there existance was a threat. You can say that they held a gun towards the heads of the Soviet people. If they didn't like the politics or prices, they were keeping their meat or grain back. So people starved. When the soviets socialized agriculture, the kulaks burned their granaries, and more people starved. The year after, the government poured in a lot of food into the area affected by starvation.

In the USSR you could vote on a lot of things, like where to put a park or airport or your local politician. But the whole political direction of the country could only be decided by the numerous party members. The times were such that that was the only realistic option.

Besides, a communist system has never existed. It's liberal ignorance. You're talking about socialism.

[scubaman3D 0]

Hitler's regime was trying to kill my family. Stalin's regime was on my side trying to kill his.

Some might argue that its worse to kill one's own people.

If you have that much indifference to life, you will not hesitate one second to kill somebody else's people.

In sheer numbers, I think Stalin was probably worse than Hitler - in that he killed more people. In motivation, however, Hitler was far worse because of his ambitions.

Makes for an interesting discussion anyways.

[Spokesperson 0]

It's meaningless to judge people for how many people they have killed. And besides it isn't known how many people died in Stalins USSR. Bourgeois historians who got their information from the hitler-propaganda apparatus, (Hearst-press in the USA) wrote about tens of millions. The Soviet Archives have a max of 1-2 millions. In total including victims of famine.

But if we are to talk about famine as mass-murder. Then the west is responsible for tens of millions of deaths every year. The west is worse than Hitler and Stalin together in that aspect.

But for me the most important thing is why you kill, not that you kill. History is no teletubbie-show, there has to be violence if any kind of slave wants to free himself. Class-war is a conflict about power, and it's bloody.

Freedom is more valuable than the lives of the oppressors.

Anyhow, I don't have time to write here anymore. For the moment at least. You can reply and all that, but I won't reply back. The only reason I started debating here again was the Geor-Russia conflict. I wanted to see how indoctrinated people were by the media. Turns out that most people bought the NATO-imperialism stance. A few didn't, and that says that they're able to think independetly.

[echo1 0]

It's meaningless to judge people for how many people they have killed. And besides it isn't known how many people died in Stalins USSR. Bourgeois historians who got their information from the hitler-propaganda apparatus, (Hearst-press in the USA) wrote about tens of millions. The Soviet Archives have a max of 1-2 millions. In total including victims of famine.

Are these the same Soviet archives where people magically disappear out of photographs?

[Mr_Tea 0]

Then the west is responsible for tens of millions of deaths every year. The west is worse than Hitler and Stalin together in that aspect.

Sure, see that you get down from the drugs you take.

Post again once you are clean, and don`t have strange visions anymore.

[scubaman3D 0]

Anyhow, I don't have time to write here anymore. For the moment at least.

The CIA, MI5/6, Mossad, BND, and the Salvation Army must be after him.

Don't worry, I'm sure the FSB will protect you.

[-Snafu- 78]

Quote[/b] ]The Queen is a parasite.

In your ridiculous, incredibly one sided opinion.

*Proudly sings God Save the Queen*

Quote[/b] ]I explained why I don't want to talk about myself. Persons are completely unimportant, arguments are important. It's irrelevant. Besides, it's dangerous, as my opinions warrant a ban on work for me. I know people who had to leave their jobs due to their opinions, the bourgeois secret police wrote a file about them and now they aren't allowed to work anymore. It's called blacklisting.

LMAO, that's hilarious! Are you a comedian? Unless you have an opinion that has something to do with supporting the slotting of loads of people ie if you are a Nazi (well you think it was quite okay for that cunt Stalin to do what he did) or something similar to that you have nothing to fear. People criticise the system all the time! Look at the comments section in newspaper's etc. If you can't see that get a pair of glasses.

Quote[/b] ]

I know the politics of most western countries. I have it all in my head.

lololololololol

I urge you to see a mental health professional.

Quote[/b] ]Under capitalism not all people can afford getting a higher education, or even get good marks in the elementary schools, because of their financial situation.

Rubbish. It just depends on the country. I have already explained to you before that in Scotland your Higher Education fees are paid for by the government and if you require more support for accommodation or travel you will get it if you or your parents don't make enough money. Yet you conveniently forget this fact because it destroys your 'argument'.

Furthermore not everybody has the ability to do further education.

Quote[/b] ]Then the west is responsible for tens of millions of deaths every year. The west is worse than Hitler and Stalin together in that aspect.

'The West' is used to describe a collection of nations that are somewhat similar to each other. It is not some binding organisation that work together. You can't compare 'The West' to Stalin or Hitler. They are not the same thing.

@Balschoiw

That's awesome!

[Balschoiw 0]

Yes, Stalin is great and the rest is liberal propaganda.

The real version before it got remixed by infidel libaral propaganda Hollywood capitalists. Millions of working class heroes were killed and eaten during the production of the liberal remix production while 7 millions of childs were given birth after Stalins visit to the studios in the original version.

[Baff1 0]

Hitler's regime was trying to kill my family. Stalin's regime was on my side trying to kill his.

Some might argue that its worse to kill one's own people.

If you have that much indifference to life, you will not hesitate one second to kill somebody else's people.

In sheer numbers, I think Stalin was probably worse than Hitler - in that he killed more people. In motivation, however, Hitler was far worse because of his ambitions.

Makes for an interesting discussion anyways.

Ah, the old "killing your own people" nonsense.

It hasn't occoured to you that the people Stalin killed, he didn't consider to be his own people?

Any more than Saddam did or in fact any participant in any civil war ever.

I myself take it as a given that people who are trying to kill others, don't really consider them "part of the family".

I'm one of those people who thinks that killing other people to preserve your own is not so much an action born out of indifference to life as one born out of a very heartfelt love of it.

It's the bit where you are willing to sacrifice your immortal soul, so to speak, to benefit those you hold most dear.

To preserve those things about your life you hold most sacred.

I think that killling brings people into a closer relationship with life. An understanding of what death looks like, and of how much people want to escape death. Of mankinds relationship with nature and our place in the world.

I think the closer you come to death, the more you appreciate life, and not less.

I do a lot of killing. Daily even. I like the things I kill. It is an unpleasent act.

But if I didn't do it, someone else I love would have to perform that duty. Better me.

There is a funny kind of nobility to be found in war. It is at once the lowest human act of morality and the highest.

I think of it as being like cleaning the toilets!

Someone has to do it. No one wants to, but someone has to.

So when someone cleans my toilets, instead of pointing out to them that they now smell of shit, I like to thank them.

Stalin may well not have been one of these people. He may in fact have been a complete homocidal monster.

I don't know.

I never met him.

It's not beyond my imagination that he might have been.

But ultimately it doesn't matter to me in the slightest how many people I don't care about that he killed.

It's how many I do care about that he saved that I shall judge him by.

Some evils are necessary.

[Baff1 0]

I explained why I don't want to talk about myself. Persons are completely unimportant, arguments are important. It's irrelevant. Besides, it's dangerous, as my opinions warrant a ban on work for me. I know people who had to leave their jobs due to their opinions, the bourgeois secret police wrote a file about them and now they aren't allowed to work anymore. It's called blacklisting.

Quote[/b] ]Capitalists work. There are billions of working capitalists on the planet today.

Perhaps you should use Wiki and look up the word capitalism too, or is this another "allegory"?

Price is a score used to quantify value.

Capitalists aren't needed in the USSR?

Then why are they all borrowing so much money from me?

How come they couldn't drill their own oil wells?

Lay their own pipelines?

The oil has always been there. The workers have always been there.

Then tell me a capitalist that does work. The Queen, if what you say is correct, is a capitalist. How does she work? Which tube of toothpaste did she make? Or how did she organize production, ie make it more efficient? Or maybe she is involved in product design? Tell me.

Yes, the USSR worked without capitalists. However, they still had to follow international intellectual property laws. Trade with companies or countries is completely ok. But no USSR workers were exploited, as there was no surplus value production.

However, I don't think you know the terminology good enough to debate this.

But you have some quite unconventional views on Stalin, for being a citizen of the west.

Your arguments are completely unimportant.

You don't have a job to lose and the secret police aren't monitoring your forum posts.

You prat.

There are 61 million capitalists in Great Britain.

Mr Jones is a popular capitalist name.

What does having a job or not have to do with being a capitalist?

Please look up the word in a dictionary before you use it again.

It might have escaped your notice, but the Queen isn't exactly representative of the ordinary citizens of this country.

The Queen is a capitalist that does not work. Most people do.

Bill Gates is capitalist you might have heard of.

No one on the planet works more than he does.

He's richer than the Queen too. (Though not British). I won't waste time naming you all our homegrown captains of industry.

It wasn't surplus production that was the U.S.S.R.'s problem. It was under-production.

Their workers weren't so much exploited, as starved.

Pretty humiliating for a Block such as their's to be reduced to accepting U.S. food aid don't you think?

My views on Stalin are pretty commonly held amongst the WW2 generation here.

Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt.

Stalin was a Londoner. Trotsky and Lenin too.

We funded the Russian Revolution (dirty capitalists that we are).

You really need to go to America or Eastern Europe for the staunchly anti-soviet ideology.

Historically, we always fight on the same side.

[echo1 0]

Stalin may well not have been one of these people. He may in fact have been a complete homocidal monster.

I don't know.

I never met him.

It's not beyond my imagination that he might have been.

But ultimately it doesn't matter to me in the slightest how many people I don't care about that he killed.

It's how many I do care about that he saved that I shall judge him by.

Some evils are necessary.

Considering you never exactly explain why this evil was necessary, of just how exactly his seemingly purposeless acts of murder saved those you love, all that still doesnt really account for his motivation now does it? I mean, if I was a raging anti-Semite, I could repeat most of what you said about the holocaust. Unless of course you don't care what other people think about Stalin and you're asserting that you admire him, which is barely a half-step up from what Spokesperson is doing.

[Second 0]

Stalin may well not have been one of these people. He may in fact have been a complete homocidal monster.

I don't know.

I never met him.

It's not beyond my imagination that he might have been.

But ultimately it doesn't matter to me in the slightest how many people I don't care about that he killed.

It's how many I do care about that he saved that I shall judge him by.

Some evils are necessary.

Considering you never exactly explain why this evil was necessary, of just how exactly his seemingly purposeless acts of murder saved those you love, all that still doesnt really account for his motivation now does it? I mean, if I was a raging anti-Semite, I could repeat most of what you said about the holocaust. Unless of course you don't care what other people think about Stalin and you're asserting that you admire him, which is barely a half-step up from what Spokesperson is doing.

+1

[Teo 0]

Enough about communism and capitalism.

Looks like the Russians, as I predicted, are keeping a buffer zone outside the two provinces South Ossetia an Abkhazia.

My opinion on this is I believe the Russians should pull out of both regions. Abkhazia should be allowed to vote as to whether it wishes to be an independent State (historically it was). South Ossetia should not be allowed to vote as it has always been part of Georgia and the Russian descendants in this region moved there as part of colonisation/plantation. The region belongs to Georgia.

Finally if Abkhazia is given it's right to independence so should Chechnya.

Oh and if I was Georgian and the Russians do not move out after talks with NATO, I would be very tempted to take up arms against them (Guerialla warfare). But violence is never the best solution so let's hope it gets sorted in a diplomatic fashion.

[scubaman3D 0]

Ah, the old "killing your own people" nonsense...

I take it you didn't read my whole response.

The conclusion I made was that Hitler was far worse than Stalin - because of his motivation and ambitions.

Also, I'm not really being dogmatic about it - I can see the opposite point of view.

Lighten up my friend. You can post a thesis about your ideas here but at the end of the day, what will you really achieve?

edit: after further review...I think you have some pretty twisted ideas about life and death.