International Politics Thread

[Spokesperson 0]

Quote[/b] ]Jeez! You're a greedy bastard! Not content with gadgets, you want a friggin factory before you consider yourself to own something?!

Then I would become a capitalist myself. Don't want that. I want all the means of production in the hands of the citizens in the country where I live. And the same to all other countries. I want democracy.

No I said means of production. The means of production are in socialism owned by the community, not by a few.

So it's alright to steal land from a farmer?

So it's alright to steal my catering company? (which IS a means of production)

That depends on how much land there is. If you look at the USSR, China or Cuba landlords i their mansions were owning most of the land, while peasants didn't own anything at all, but worked for them. The revolutions changed that.

In that case it's correct to distribute the land to those who work it. The farmers would own the farms together, in collective farms, cooperatives or through the state.

In the USSR all citizens were free to build their own "dacha" /summerhouse and own/lease a certain amount of land in the countryside. Russia today is the country where most people in % have a second home. That's thanks to the fact the the land was owned by the people themselves and not by a few.

When it comes to your catering company I would say it's ok if you are self-employed or have family members as employees or share the ownership with all your employees. If not you're profiting from the work of other people. If you manage to live by the profits of it, purely by owning the company, and not working, you would be classed as a capitalist.

No, the employees wouldn't be happier off unemployed. Entrepeneurs are needed for the capitalist system to function. You can't pull out the capitalists and think the system is going to work. But if you change the system, you don't necessarily need the capitalists. In all socialist countries there's full employment. People in Haiti are unemployed, people in Cuba aren't. And there are no private owners in Cuba. Everything is owned collectively or through the state (which citizens control through democratic elections). So you both have a economic and political democracy. Western "democracies" lack economic democracy which is fundamental to a working political democracy.

[Necromancer- 0]

When it comes to your catering company I would say it's ok if you are self-employed or have family members as employees or share the ownership with all your employees. If not you're profiting from the work of other people. If you manage to live by the profits of it, purely by owning the company, and not working, you would be classed as a capitalist.

In this world (YES! REALITY! your theory would not work... I (and probably everyone else except for the minority called "you") am never going to start a company if I have to share the profit with other people I don't really know. In the beginning the profit would be so bloody low, that it wouldn't be interesting at all to start with.

Second..

It would be MY initiative.. my bloody idea to start with. No effect without cause. Perhaps I would have started it with SOME FRIENDS and share the profit with them NOT everyone else who come in later and profit as much for doing LESS initiative than that was done before. Perhaps that person would get a good bonus if that person came with a refreshing idea to turn more profit... other than that NO. If a cleaner gets in the company later on, just for the 19 other workers not to have to waste their time throwing the trash out, I am not going to give that person 5% of the 80.000 Euro revenue a month.

No no no.. that doesn't work..

The only fairly working social states are in Western Europe. Income comes from taxes and are spend on subsidies for blablabla.

So yeah.. I am a capitalist... and a damn lucky one as well.

..bite me..

I like it.

[Spokesperson 0]

As I said, you can't remove the capitalists out of capitalism, capitalism has to be removed first. You provide arguments for that yourself.

If you are a capitalist, then there's no discussion with you really as you know your interests. So naturally you don't like socialism or communism and do everything against it. Most of the people here and in general, however, aren't capitalists. They are the same kind of people that you employ in your company and who work for you. Without them you wouldn't earn those €80k a month. But they don't need you (anymore). They maybe need an organizer, but not one that owns the company.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

As I said, you can't remove the capitalists out of capitalism, capitalism has to be removed first. You provide arguments for that yourself.

If you are a capitalist, then there's no discussion with you really as you know your interests. So naturally you don't like socialism or communism and do everything against it. Most of the people here and in general, however, aren't capitalists. They are the same kind of people that you employ in your company and who work for you. Without them you wouldn't earn those €80k a month. But they don't need you (anymore). They maybe need an organizer, but not one that owns the company.

So, what incentive is there to go above and beyond your peers? Why would anyone ever bother to be innovative? Development is enforced by competition and I simply don't see any of that in Fantasy-Communism.

[Necromancer- 0]

As I said, you can't remove the capitalists out of capitalism, capitalism has to be removed first. You provide arguments for that yourself.

If you are a capitalist, then there's no discussion with you really as you know your interests. So naturally you don't like socialism or communism and do everything against it. Most of the people here and in general, however, aren't capitalists. They are the same kind of people that you employ in your company and who work for you. Without them you wouldn't earn those €80k a month. But they don't need you (anymore). They maybe need an organizer, but not one that owns the company.

Any goods and service transfer where there is currency involved is a form of capitalism.

Of course it is your own decision that if you start your own company, that you share the profits with all the workers in the company.

Next..

Lets say there is an initiave for 200 people to start a company. They all have to have the same thoughts on how to run that company. That is practically impossible to do as there will always be one to disagree with something in the end.

[Spokesperson 0]

Quote[/b] ]So, what incentive is there to go above and beyond your peers? Why would anyone ever bother to be innovative? Development is enforced by competition and I simply don't see any of that in Fantasy-Communism.

Yea why would people bother to be innovative? Look at the USSR or Cuba. Aren't they innovative? Compare Cuba to Haiti and other countries in the region. Cuba is a leading biomedical exporter.

Ten people who cooperate do better than ten people who compete against eachother.

Quote[/b] ]Any goods and service transfer where there is currency involved is a form of capitalism.

Of course it is your own decision that if you start your own company, that you share the profits with all the workers in the company.

Next..

Lets say there is an initiave for 200 people to start a company. They all have to have the same thoughts on how to run that company. That is practically impossible to do as there will always be one to disagree with something in the end.

No trade isn't capitalism. It's a natural part of all socialist, capitalist, feodal and slavery societies. You have capitalism when some people, the few, own the means of production and the rest work for them.

There are many examples in South America where companies have been making huge losses, they couldn't pay the wages of the workers and the capitalists abandoned the factories without paying anything for their workers. The workers then seized the company/factory and started to produce things on their own. They made a huge loss turn into a profit. No capitalists needed.

Decisions and wages are decided by the workers, democratically.

Naomi Klein and others have documented one of those companies in a documentary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Take

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_self-management

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I can't look at the USSR, it collapsed under itself.

Funny how that works. I guess you could say they were innovative at the epic /f/ail.

[Spokesperson 0]

The USSR never collapsed. The liberal Yeltsin signed a document and made Russia withdraw from the union. Without Russia a union would be pointless. So there the union was dissolved.

The economy wasn't very ok, like in the rest of the world at that time. But it was better than that of Russia (until now, 15 years later). GDP fell by more than 30% in the 90ies.

The youtube clips I posted show the situation one year after the dissolution. People wanted the union back. The parliament was with them. The military wasn't. People died while the military got higher wages.

Russia is a dictatorship, and turned one at that very moment. But at that time the west didn't care about it. Shooting protestors was ok back then. Now the elections mean nothing, and now west complains about the situation. Russia is a product of the west. Even if you won despite of the cheating, the capitalists would pay the generals to shoot people and make things their way. However, their money is enough for influencing politics without using violence. After all they don't like killing people, it's their final option.

[Necromancer- 0]

Russia is a dictatorship, and turned one at that very moment. But at that time the west didn't care about it. Shooting protestors was ok back then. Now the elections mean nothing, and now west complains about the situation. Russia is a product of the west. Even if you won despite of the cheating, the capitalists would pay the generals to shoot people and make things their way. However, their money is enough for influencing politics without using violence. After all they don't like killing people, it's their final option.

Russia has always been a dictatorship even before the age of the socalled "communism", although it was labeled a Kingdom because it was ruled by a "Tsaar" which is nothing more than a king. Russia has never been a product of the West. It has never been a colony of any West-European country in the past 600.

Quote[/b] ]There are many examples in South America where companies have been making huge losses, they couldn't pay the wages of the workers and the capitalists abandoned the factories without paying anything for their workers. The workers then seized the company/factory and started to produce things on their own. They made a huge loss turn into a profit. No capitalists needed.

I disagree, capitalists were needed to start those companies from 0 (initiative bee-otch). The workers basically started with free facilities left by capitalists. Woow.. stealing someone else's facility and make profit from it..

[baddo 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'm wondering.

Spokesperson, what are you trying to achieve here?

It has been said to you before, but I will say it again, no one here seems to be buying your ideas.

Why do you keep repeating the same things over and over again? Do you think that an utopistic idea becomes realistic if you repeatedly say it, over and over again?

You try to tell people how they should live their life. Like they didn't think about it by themselves. I've faced this kind of situations many times in my life, and everytime I thought "What a jerk... he likes to do something and thinks I'm not good if I don't do it too? Why don't he go and concentrate on his own things and let me decide what I will do. I don't want to live my life his way. I saw what his idea was, I considered it, and I rejected it."

I'm discussing politics with you. That's all. Hopefully most of you'll understand that you're too politically uneducated to contribute anything. The best thing I can do is to make you realize that.

Too politically uneducated to contribute anything?

Are you saying that some person is above other people in this discussion?

Are you saying that there is a class system in place in this discussion? Some people here belong to a lower class than you do and their opinions are thus worth less than yours?

[Spokesperson 0]

Modern day Russia is a product of the west. It created that monster. The politics run by Yeltsin were those of the neoliberals in Washington.

Quote[/b] ]I disagree, capitalists were needed to start those companies from 0 (initiative bee-otch). The workers basically started with free facilities left by capitalists. Woow.. stealing someone else's facility and make profit from it..

No, that wasn't theft. They didn't get paid by the owners, and they had been exploited their whole lives. Now that changed. Sure the capitalists were needed to start the business, but their only goal is to earn more money from it, while not doing work themselves. If you look at Cuba all people are employed, Cuban economy fares well with huge growth rates. And that's without capitalists. Same thing with the USSR. A different society is possible.

Quote[/b] ]Too politically uneducated to contribute anything?

Are you saying that some person is above other people in this discussion?

Are you saying that there is a class system in place in this discussion? Some people here belong to a lower class than you do and their opinions are thus worth less than yours?

Yes, because how can you discuss a subject if you have no clue what it means? When I hear people discuss fishing, I remain silent, because I don't know anything about it. And I don't think I know anything about it unlike other people here. People who have no clue about what they are talking about, like when they are repeating clichés, are impossible to have a constructive discussion with. If somebody doesn't know what communism means and has an opinion about it, that opinion is utterly worthless.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]None of those revolts made North Korea invade South Korea. Before the invasion, North Korea was conducting guerrilla operations in South Korea trying to destabilize South Korea. North Korea had to buildup its military before it could invade the South.

I'm not talking about guerilla operations (civilian initiatives), but bigger uprisings. There is a parallell in the Vietnam war here. The people of the South joined the guerilla and the north when it liberated the south from US puppet fascists and US-influence. The fact that the US was fighting an entire people made them lose the war. But it cost the vietnamese 2 million or more deaths. Seen as the US had nothing there to do, it can be seen a large scale mass murder.

The 'Liberation' was just a propaganda they later tried to justify their action. How many US troops were in South Korea before Korean war?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]1% of population moving in one moment is NOT normal. If this was 1% of US population moving to Cuba at once, you'd be hailing at this as the proof that Cuban system atrracted people. Heck a few hundred American was representation of Cuba's system.

It's completely normal if you haven't been allowed to leave the country before. They gave a chance for everyone who wanted to leave the island to do so.

And 1% left Cuba. That is MORE than number of people moving from US to Cuba, mind you. Notice that in US if you want to go to Cuba and live there, US government cannot do much. Just look at your ido Michael Moore. He is still walking and talking, not dead.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]In other words, the number of population can skew the GDP/capita, which runs against your argument that it is a better measurement. On top of that now you are changing our story and say that there are other factors. Which is the argument?

Number of population can skew the GDP/capita? GDP/capita means GDP/population. So naturally GDP/capita has to depend on the population? I think you know how to count people, GDP however is defined by this:

GDP = consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

As you see there are many other factors. Consumption is not only based on the amount of people you have either for instance.

Maybe you do some math, you will realize that

GDP/capita = consumption/capita + gross investment/capita + government spending/capita + (exports − imports)/capita

So indeed it it affected by number of people. You started the whole GDP/capita is better argument and now that I showed it is no better than nominal GDP, you are trying to say something to refute me but you can't.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]and just what reprisals happened? Do you honetly think that many companies would do business with Cuba if embargo was effective? Cuba trades with other nations, and there is no restriction that works.

A consequence of the embargo:

"International Sanctions against the Castro Government. Economic embargo, any non-US company that deals economically with Cuba can be subjected to legal action and that company's leadership can be barred from entry into the United States. Sanctions may be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba. This means that internationally operating companies have to choose between Cuba and the US, which is a much larger market. "

Respectable companies that sell medicine to Cuba for instance, got black listed.

And they are still around to make money. How can that be?

Quote[/b] ]It's illegal for US citizens to spend money in Cuba. It's illegal to travel to Cuba from the US. That's US law. Trade restrictions like the embargo are effective. Because people have to chose between the US or Cuba. Some companies, very few, that either are very essential to the US or are focused on trade with Cuba only, can naturally avoid the restrictions. If they aren't US based that is.

So you admit that US is better than Cuba here? Business people want to do business with US not Cuba. That says something! Even if your embargo idea is true it doesn't matter as tourists from around the world can goto Cuba and spend USD as free as they want.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]You gave a small handful of areas that Cuba is better and claimed that those make Cuba better than US. I showed you other areas where US accelerates, now you are trying to divert from your original argument. Yeah, working class rules so Castro was a dictator for last few decades, and there are only one political party.

Castro is extremely popular in Cuba and in the rest of South America, and parts of Africa. He has won every election, which doesn't mean he is a dictator. Political parties are not voted upon. People elect individual candidates. Non-party as well as party members.

Election where there are only one candidate. If that kind of crap happened here in US you "socialist" would be calling it a dictatorship. But as long as your "uncle Fidel" can do it, it's good. The only candidate that is allowed is the ones who show their "patriotism" i.e. loyalty to communism. There are no other political party than Communist party.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Have you seen reality? The life expectancy is 77.6 in Cuba, while as US is 77.8, making it virtually the same. You claim that people die here in US as result of lack of insurance. Too bad they live just as long as Cuba with its better climate.

Yes, that's extraordinary. Cuban, a third world country has a life expectancy that's higher than that of the super power USA. I heard it's higher than in the US now even. One would "expect" the US to perform better. (And the rest of south america).

You mean Cuba, with its so effective system can only do just as good as US, not better? Then there is no support to your argument that the Cuban system will work with US. Furthermore, the "inferior" US system is doing just as well as Cubans! How could this be?!?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Let's see he went to Cuba. Maybe Castro did it? Oswald was a loner and outcast from EVERY part of society. Look at how he was treated in USSR.

Dissident here in US don't get shot, but in Cuba they disappear. Or executed without telling the family.

You should always look at the motives. Who gained the most from it? Was it Castro? Or was it Lyndon B. Johnson, the CIA, and the military-industrial complex? Dissidents in the US get shot, as I showed you in that link. In Cuba they don't.

Yes, and there are so sociopaths in this world, right? Looking at motives, Castro had plenty too. Dissidents in Cuba get shot, in US they are yelled at. Look at all the dissidents in US. Are they shot? Nope.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]False. South Korea just elected first conservative president since 1992. Between 1992 and 2008 the presidents were those who did not go along with those in power. However they did not like communism to begin with. The Korean war happened as a result of North Korea's greed. There were very little protest in Korea back then, and as billybob said, North Korea tried to make an excuse that South was attacking them. The whole liberation angle did not come into play after the Korean war because before Korea war, there were little if any US troops(1949)

So South Korea was no fascist dictatorship?

There are huge strikes very often in South Korea, many laws are still from the fascist times:

Just made a quick look on google:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1081500.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996-1997_strikes_in_South_Korea

Uprising 1980:

http://www.onwar.com/aced/chrono/c1900s/yr80/fskorea1980b.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst....E948260

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/korea/story/kwangju/

And that's all from a liberal point of view.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/nov2003/kore-n19.shtml

Riots, uprisings, strikes are all features of the korean society. Both then and now.

You managed to pull 3 examples and call that the norm? I say if that's the logic, then Cuba is a muderous dictatorship as many were fleeing the country in 80s and many more were shot.

Maybe you are not reading things correctly, but as I said, last few presidents were leftwings. But I guess that does not fit into your argument of 'fascist state'.

Kwangju, while it was an uprising that signified the century is NOT a communist uprising. The same people who did taht ended up as major government figures. And you still call Korea a fascist nation? The strike of 1996 ended and that was it. Thesedays, the unions are looked down by Koreans as they ended up being fat cats themselves.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Most Russians DO NOT want the USSR days.

That's what you think. You have no idea why you think that way. But it has to do with where you live.

"Two-thirds of Russians miss the Soviet

Union and are sorry it is gone"

http://www.mail-archive.com/osint@yahoogroups.com/msg02071.html

Published by UPI Dec 29 2004

Did you read the article correctly? It asks about fall of the nation, not the life style of the USSR. If the question is rephrased as the life style, I bet the numbers will be different.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]People don't own means of production. Government oes. Remember? You are the one who said that. You also said that Central planning is the key, which I showed you that it was not a democracy.

In a capitalist society the working class owns no means of production. In a socialist society the working class owns all means of production.

So you do admit that USSR was not a socialist society as the Central planning and the country owned everything, not individuals.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]And the proof is? When things got bad in Africa they always want US to intervene, not Cuba. That says a lot about it. USSR explited too, and look at how other nations around it are now finally getting over that exploitation. US tries to step away from Africa but likes of you criticize it, and when US steps in get criticized again. Get a grip.

Funny that you should mention it. Cuba actually liberated Angola and Namibia from the US and the then racist US and UK -backed south africa.

LOL Angola was under Portugese control! Keep grasping the straws. And while US did not severe its ties with SA all together, it did criticize South Africa without hesitation. Speaking of racist, Stalin did not like Jewish population in USSR too.

Quote[/b] ]A good summary in quotes by Nelson Mandela.

Quote[/b] ]I went to Cuba in July 1991, and I drove through the streets with Fidel Castro. There were a great deal of cheers. And I also waved back believing that these cheers were for me. Fidel was very humble; he smiled but he never said a word. But when I reached the square where I had to make some remarks to the crowd, then I realized that these cheers were not meant for me, they were meant for Fidel Castro. Because everybody forgot about me, and was really aroused by Fidel Castro. Then I realized that here was a man of the masses.

Quote[/b] ]

Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro... Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom, and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny... There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people.

I wonder why the US isn't mentioned?

Quote[/b] ]

I wonder why Nelsom Mandela visits US later in his life quite often. Oh wait. Embargo prevents him from visiting US, right? Could it be that US did better job in later years and he never saw that coming?

In other words, since people in Cuba own means of production(according to you), they ARE NOT PROLETARIAT! LOL!

That's true, the people of Cuba are no proletarians. When proletarians sieze power in a country, that country turns into a dictatorship of the proletariat. Even if the proletariat ceases to exist. Capitalism (Bourg. Dictatorship)-> Prol. Dictatorship (/Socialism) -> Socialism -> Communism

Some people see the prol dictatorship and socialism as different things. I prefer to use the word socialism for prol. dictatorship countries as well.

Quote[/b] ]

ROFL! So a nation that is run by Proletariats are a dictatorship! USSR was a dictatorship. Do you even know what proletariat means?!? Communism was about proletariats! LOL! You just contradicted yourself and you probably won't even understand it!

Are you serious? There was no communism? Learn something new everyday

Does it look like I'm joking? You're probably one of those ex-soviet russian kids who have no idea of what communism and the USSR was. USSR was something, Russia today is shit. Look at the countries and compare. Even your president agrees it was a big mistake to dissolve the union.

LOL keep dreaming. YOU were born after USSR. You didn't see Chernobyl, the long lines for bread and the cold war. You only have fantasy of communism and don't even understand what it is. Your anti-social mind wants to go against what is in power right now.

Communism has never existed and can't exist in any countries or states.

Quote[/b] ]The US doesn't have many days left. At least not if it continues that way. Things look very bad, and the downfall of the capitalist system as we know it can be here very soon.

Sure, the US has growth, like most countries before a recession, but the debts increase at the same time.

Yeah that's what they said about 17 years ago while comparing to Japan. and beofre that with USSR and communism. Yet US is still here.

[Spokesperson 0]

Quote[/b] ]And 1% left Cuba. That is MORE than number of people moving from US to Cuba, mind you. Notice that in US if you want to go to Cuba and live there, US government cannot do much. Just look at your ido Michael Moore. He is still walking and talking, not dead.

No, it's illegal to go to Cuba for US-citizens. Moore probably went through Mexico. But, then he still can be charged for breaking the embargo by trading with cubans, eating food etc. I think he got into trouble when the movie was released.

Quote[/b] ]Maybe you do some math, you will realize that

GDP/capita = consumption/capita + gross investment/capita + government spending/capita + (exports − imports)/capita

So indeed it it affected by number of people. You started the whole GDP/capita is better argument and now that I showed it is no better than nominal GDP, you are trying to say something to refute me but you can't.

Yes, that's what I've been saying all the time. It's obvious. GDP/Capita means GDP/people. So naturally -people- will affect the ratio. GDP measures total production. That is worthless if you want to measure standards of living. As I said you can have 100 in production and 1 citizen. If you have 10 citizens and 100 in production, the latter case is worse. Because people get much less. That's why GDP/capita is better. In the first case it would be 100, in the second 10. So if you want to compare countries with anything that has to do with GDP, you should use GDP/capita and not GDP. I don't see why it's hard to understand.

Quote[/b] ]And they are still around to make money. How can that be?

They generally have to choose between the US and Cuban market.

Quote[/b] ]So you admit that US is better than Cuba here? Business people want to do business with US not Cuba. That says something! Even if your embargo idea is true it doesn't matter as tourists from around the world can goto Cuba and spend USD as free as they want.

US is a bigger market, you can sell more there, generally. A country is not better than another because people want to do business with it. Then Qatar and all those US-backed dictatorships would be the greatest. The system cuba has to offer is a lot better than the american one, that's why Cuba is better. It's more democratic and just. And you can't spend USD in Cuba.

Quote[/b] ]Election where there are only one candidate. If that kind of crap happened here in US you "socialist" would be calling it a dictatorship. But as long as your "uncle Fidel" can do it, it's good. The only candidate that is allowed is the ones who show their "patriotism" i.e. loyalty to communism. There are no other political party than Communist party.

No, not at all. I pointed out that there were 15 000 seats and more than 30 000 candidates. That's at least 2 per seat. Political parties don't participate in elections in Cuba. Cuba is a proletarian dictatorship, but it's more democratic than the bourgeois US.

Quote[/b] ]You mean Cuba, with its so effective system can only do just as good as US, not better? Then there is no support to your argument that the Cuban system will work with US. Furthermore, the "inferior" US system is doing just as well as Cubans! How could this be?!?

You don't seem to understand simple logics. If you have starting conditions X1 and X2, then apply system S1 and S2 respectively, System S1 is better than system S2, lets say S1 means a 50% boost while S2 means a 30% boost. Starting condition X1=0.75 (75% of X2) is worse than X2=1. So X1+X1*S1=1.12500 while X2+X2*S2=1.3. Even if the first system is better you get a worse final score. S1 is Cuba, and S2 is the US.

Quote[/b] ]Yes, and there are so sociopaths in this world, right? Looking at motives, Castro had plenty too. Dissidents in Cuba get shot, in US they are yelled at. Look at all the dissidents in US. Are they shot? Nope.

Dissidents in Cuba aren't shot. They are shot in the US though. Kent State, Malcolm X, Marthin Luther King Jr and so on.

Quote[/b] ]You managed to pull 3 examples and call that the norm? I say if that's the logic, then Cuba is a muderous dictatorship as many were fleeing the country in 80s and many more were shot.

Maybe you are not reading things correctly, but as I said, last few presidents were leftwings. But I guess that does not fit into your argument of 'fascist state'.

Kwangju, while it was an uprising that signified the century is NOT a communist uprising. The same people who did taht ended up as major government figures. And you still call Korea a fascist nation? The strike of 1996 ended and that was it. Thesedays, the unions are looked down by Koreans as they ended up being fat cats themselves.

Left wing of korean politics is still right wing.

More riots and uprisings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTPbK6YAF4M

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Revolution

That's South Korea for you. South Korea was a military dictatorship backed by the US, until recently.

Cuba is far from a murderous dictatorship. That's a word people use for the US. Fake democracy.

Quote[/b] ]Did you read the article correctly? It asks about fall of the nation, not the life style of the USSR. If the question is rephrased as the life style, I bet the numbers will be different.

Did you? It clearly says that 67% "regret the collapse of the

Soviet Union." Life style was a lot worse until just now. GDP fell by over 30%.

Quote[/b] ]So you do admit that USSR was not a socialist society as the Central planning and the country owned everything, not individuals.

The USSR was a socialist society. Planners were just like everyone else. Or do planners of big companies own the companies?

Quote[/b] ]LOL Angola was under Portugese control! Keep grasping the straws. And while US did not severe its ties with SA all together, it did criticize South Africa without hesitation. Speaking of racist, Stalin did not like Jewish population in USSR too.

No, Angola got independent from Portugal 1975. The conflict with the west starts after that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War

South Africans and other capitalist were driven out from Angola and Namibia by Cuban and Angolan forces.

Stalin thing; so two bad things makes one thing good? And besides all nationalities in the Soviet Union got their own republics. The jewish people as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast

Quote[/b] ]LOL keep dreaming. YOU were born after USSR. You didn't see Chernobyl, the long lines for bread and the cold war. You only have fantasy of communism and don't even understand what it is. Your anti-social mind wants to go against what is in power right now.

How would that work out? I thought I said I visited the USSR?

Quote[/b] ]Yeah that's what they said about 17 years ago while comparing to Japan. and beofre that with USSR and communism. Yet US is still here.

This is something different. The US is on a big decline.

[Commando84 0]

Lol, i cant believe for real that US could control Russia

seriously they can't control a medium sized country...

Seriously Russia always went its own ways, its no way washington can make the russian presidents to do like they want to spokesperson Usa can only try to negotiate and stuff cause Russia is a big country and all, if Russia would have been a smaller country like Switzerland or something they could have used some persuasive method like do as we want or we bomb you

I heard rumours about the pakistani president went along to help Us cause they would have been invaded and then the us would have deployed a base there...

[baddo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Too politically uneducated to contribute anything?

Are you saying that some person is above other people in this discussion?

Are you saying that there is a class system in place in this discussion? Some people here belong to a lower class than you do and their opinions are thus worth less than yours?

Yes, because how can you discuss a subject if you have no clue what it means? When I hear people discuss fishing, I remain silent, because I don't know anything about it. And I don't think I know anything about it unlike other people here. People who have no clue about what they are talking about, like when they are repeating clichés, are impossible to have a constructive discussion with. If somebody doesn't know what communism means and has an opinion about it, that opinion is utterly worthless.

Spokesperson, I asked you what you are trying to achieve because I saw that you are having the same discussion here as you already had in another thread on this very same forum. You are using the same words over and over again. You post the same hyperlinks again. What sense does that make? You really think that by repeating it over and over again your ideology turns from utopistic into realistic?

In the other thread I quite clearly told you why your ideology is utopistic in my opinion. I don't like to repeat it here.

Don't you realize that all you are getting here is opposition? Shouldn't you try to learn something from your obvious defeat instead of telling other people that they are uneducated?

Or then again, maybe you just want to have a discussion - not to achieve anything. I thought you were trying to get people agree with you about the ideology you love, but maybe I was wrong. Maybe you just want to have a discussion without caring if you get any results out of it. Currently it looks very much like there are no results, you are just blabbering and not achieving anything. Well, this is actually inaccurate - you have achieved something - you are driving people away from your loved ideology. You are not only ensuring that I reject it even more strongly than before, but as has been seen already in this thread, you have made sure that other people too are less interested in your ideology now. Don't you really see that the way you are advertizing your ideology doesn't work?

Now you have gone to declare me as "too uneducated" to participate in this discussion. Great strategy for a discussion from you. By declaring your opponents as uneducated you win this argument? Life is not so easy, Spokesperson. If it was, the Marxist ideas would have ruled the whole world by now. I don't want your ideology. I looked at it and rejected it. Is this too "uneducated" an opinion? Or is there some number of Marxist books I should read before my opinions count? Please explain exactly how does one qualify into this discussion.

You are showing quite significant arrogance - it is obvious by now that you are the one here who is 100 % right and everyone else's opinion is utterly worthless. Why else would you be repeating the same things over and over again? What you are doing here looks like you are not going to re-consider your ideas at all after getting a lot of opposing feedback from others. Why else would you be repeating the same things over and over again, in different threads? There are some goods words to describe this kind of behaviour... I leave your educated mind to find those words for you. An educated, intelligent person would be re-considering his/her ideology and re-phrasing his/her argumentation after getting so much opposing opinions as you have received on this forum. You are not showing any signs of re-consideration and re-phrasing and that eventually made me question what are you trying to achieve here. Why would someone repeatedly hit his/her head against a wall like you are doing here? I don't quite understand that (but maybe it's just because I might be too uneducated to understand).

[MehMan 0]

No, it's illegal to go to Cuba for US-citizens. Moore probably went through Mexico. But, then he still can be charged for breaking the embargo by trading with cubans, eating food etc. I think he got into trouble when the movie was released.

Did you say that people should watch Sicko? It seems to me that you didn't watch Sicko, otherwise you would've known that they sailed to Guantanamo Bay and from there they entered Cuba.

Also, jaywalking is illegal, but that doesn't stop people from doing it.

Quote[/b] ]No, not at all. I pointed out that there were 15 000 seats and more than 30 000 candidates. That's at least 2 per seat. Political parties don't participate in elections in Cuba. Cuba is a proletarian dictatorship, but it's more democratic than the bourgeois US.

Voting for one party is not democracy. Neither is voting for one ruler.

Quote[/b] ] The system cuba has to offer is a lot better than the american one, that's why Cuba is better. It's more democratic and just.

Right....

Quote[/b] ]Dissidents in Cuba aren't shot. They are shot in the US though. Kent State, Malcolm X, Marthin Luther King Jr and so on.

Just as there are no death camps in North Korea, right?

Just because the news doesn't come on TV or in the papers, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. We all saw what happened at Kent, to Malcolm X and MLK, there's no lie there. But you believe the lie Cuba is telling because it supports your views. Instead of condemning killings on both sides, you support them on one side but condenm them on the other.

Besides, your double standards are amazing, truly amazing.

You are the same as those neo nazi bastards. You condemn Hitler but support Stalin. What the hell is wrong with you?

Oh right, Stalin was defending the revolution. So that makes it ok to kill.

I find it amazing that YOU call us brainwashed, but then again, you like to live a lie so that fits your views perfectly. You seem to believe everything that a socialist state says, because surely they can't lie and they are controlled by the people and not by dictators. On the other hand you condemn all western media as full of lies and western states as run by evil people and we are all slaves and sheep. And calling us sheep, amazing, truly amazing. I don't know how your brain doesn't explode from all the contradictions you spew out.

Everything that doesn't fit in your view must be a lie. Lovely standards.

As you can see, nobody here accepts your views and there are about 50 people in the whole world that do. It's hard to find such extremes like you, but we seem to have found one.

Calling us uneducated is also absurd. An educated man would know to have a central approach instead of a extreme one like you. I don't know how you can call yourself educated. Reading Marx and dealing with internals of one system is not being educated, it's called being close-minded.

Also, congratulations, I used to think communism and socialism wasn't so bad, the kind Yugoslavia had under Tito would be fine with me, but your views and influence only made me dislike it.

[Sennacherib 0]

to have a new subject.

what do you think about the Aggressiveness in the trade in China?

the fact also that the prices of a lof of goods have increase -wheat, metals etc etc?

And the fact that China is member of WTO but doesn't follow the rules.

[Necromancer- 0]

to have a new subject.  

what do you think about the Aggressiveness in the trade in China?

the fact also that the prices of a lof of goods have increase -wheat, metals etc etc?

And the fact that China is member of WTO but doesn't follow the rules.

I just blame that to the greed of mankind...

It's unstoppable unless the greed destroys ourselves. All we can do is adapt to that situation.

[Spokesperson 0]

Quote[/b] ]Lol, i cant believe for real that US could control Russia

seriously they can't control a medium sized country...

Seriously Russia always went its own ways, its no way washington can make the russian presidents to do like they want to spokesperson Usa can only try to negotiate and stuff cause Russia is a big country and all, if Russia would have been a smaller country like Switzerland or something they could have used some persuasive method like do as we want or we bomb you

I heard rumours about the pakistani president went along to help Us cause they would have been invaded and then the us would have deployed a base there...

Russian politicians (and the most of the world) thought US advice on economics (the current policy/trend back then was neoliberalism) was the right thing to follow in order to create a market economy. But it didn't go as expected. The economy collapsed twice and huge parts of Russia went into the hands of a few oligarchs and foreign enterprises. Now the state plays a greater role in the economy and things have stabilized.

The US didn't control Russia, but had a huge influence over its politicians and businessmen. They followed every advice. Now ordinary people have grown tired of market economy and what they call "democracy". Democracy and liberalism are used as taunts in Russia today. Using democracy as a taunt is pretty sad. Because real democracy should be a priority.

Quote[/b] ]Spokesperson, I asked you what you are trying to achieve because I saw that you are having the same discussion here as you already had in another thread on this very same forum. You are using the same words over and over again. You post the same hyperlinks again. What sense does that make? You really think that by repeating it over and over again your ideology turns from utopistic into realistic?

Well, the more you debate the better you get. The more you discuss the more you learn. Debates as long as they are on an intellectual level are purely positive.

I don't like repeating things, but some people don't read all threads. So I just take the links here instead.

Quote[/b] ]Don't you realize that all you are getting here is opposition? Shouldn't you try to learn something from your obvious defeat instead of telling other people that they are uneducated?

Defeat? In what way? That the US is better than Cuba? That cuban healthcare is better? That people in cuba can go to school without paying? Full employment, and no homelessness? That it's the only country with sustainable development? I see it the other way round. I present loads of facts that back my statements. People don't know what they talk about even. Is that my fault? Or their? Just because a majority thinks something it doesn't mean it's right. Ask a heap of kindergarten kids what 1+1 and they'll teach you it's 3.

Quote[/b] ]Or then again, maybe you just want to have a discussion - not to achieve anything. I thought you were trying to get people agree with you about the ideology you love, but maybe I was wrong. Maybe you just want to have a discussion without caring if you get any results out of it. Currently it looks very much like there are no results, you are just blabbering and not achieving anything. Well, this is actually inaccurate - you have achieved something - you are driving people away from your loved ideology. You are not only ensuring that I reject it even more strongly than before, but as has been seen already in this thread, you have made sure that other people too are less interested in your ideology now. Don't you really see that the way you are advertizing your ideology doesn't work?

No, that's impossible. That's not how people are convinced about something. Material conditions have to be right for people to get convinced. I don't believe in idealism.

Quote[/b] ]Now you have gone to declare me as "too uneducated" to participate in this discussion. Great strategy for a discussion from you. By declaring your opponents as uneducated you win this argument? Life is not so easy, Spokesperson. If it was, the Marxist ideas would have ruled the whole world by now. I don't want your ideology. I looked at it and rejected it. Is this too "uneducated" an opinion? Or is there some number of Marxist books I should read before my opinions count? Please explain exactly how does one qualify into this discussion.

If one doesn't know what communism means and tries to debate it that person is uneducated and sort of stupid.

Quote[/b] ]You are showing quite significant arrogance - it is obvious by now that you are the one here who is 100 % right and everyone else's opinion is utterly worthless. Why else would you be repeating the same things over and over again? What you are doing here looks like you are not going to re-consider your ideas at all after getting a lot of opposing feedback from others. Why else would you be repeating the same things over and over again, in different threads? There are some goods words to describe this kind of behaviour... I leave your educated mind to find those words for you. An educated, intelligent person would be re-considering his/her ideology and re-phrasing his/her argumentation after getting so much opposing opinions as you have received on this forum. You are not showing any signs of re-consideration and re-phrasing and that eventually made me question what are you trying to achieve here. Why would someone repeatedly hit his/her head against a wall like you are doing here? I don't quite understand that (but maybe it's just because I might be too uneducated to understand).

Marxism is no ideology, it's a science. In 16th century Galilei claimed that Earth orbited around the Sun. He had to re-consider if he wanted to stay alive. But your argument fails, does the massive opposition make the sun have its orbit around earth? It's the type and validness of the opposition that decides if an argument is good or not. You (not necessarily you) haven't provided any valid opposition, primarily because you don't know what we're discussing. Why should I re-consider anything in that case? I'm still waiting.

Look at vektorboson for example, he probably doesn't share my opinions, yet he is educated and can discuss the subject. That unlike many people here who like to discuss things they don't know anything about. Especially those who repeat things they heard in Top Gun or movies like Jurassic Park, without thinking. Your country is no democracy, that's what you're told. There is no god (although that's an assumption), but that's what you're told. They are all lies.

Quote[/b] ]Did you say that people should watch Sicko? It seems to me that you didn't watch Sicko, otherwise you would've known that they sailed to Guantanamo Bay and from there they entered Cuba.

I saw that sequence too, but it doesn't show how they got there. I don't think they went there by boat or helicopter (at least not those). Sure they showed a clip where they went off from the marina and far out to the sea. But it isn't clear whether they actually went there by boat or by plane (through mexico). If you know how long a trip around the island to Guantanamo would take + how much fuel one would need I would be eager to know. Then it would be some practical issues with getting off in Guantanamo and in into Cuba. Anyway due to what he did Moore is subject for a civil investigation.

Quote[/b] ]Voting for one party is not democracy. Neither is voting for one ruler.

They are not voting for any parties. They are voting on individual candidates. I.e. anyone who is a candidate. Sure, some of them are party members, while some aren't.

Quote[/b] ]Just as there are no death camps in North Korea, right?

Nope, there are no death camps in North Korea. (As far as I know). However, it's likely there are labour camps. Many prisoners in the US and in North Korea work while they are in jail.

Quote[/b] ]But you believe the lie Cuba is telling because it supports your views. Instead of condemning killings on both sides, you support them on one side but condenm them on the other.

Tell me when Cuba killed its dissidents. And then I mean, dissidents.

Quote[/b] ]You are the same as those neo nazi bastards. You condemn Hitler but support Stalin. What the hell is wrong with you?

Oh right, Stalin was defending the revolution. So that makes it ok to kill.

The reason why you think it's strange is because you don't understand the difference. I don't know if you're trying. Stalin killed a few hundred thousand, that was bad, of course. In my eyes, he was say 80% good and 20% bad. Most people in Russia think he was more than 50% good. And they are supposed to have been oppressed and tortured by him. In fact Stalin contributed to the fact that the USSR still holds the growth record. Russians never lived that well before. Basic human rights were protected unlike in the west.

Quote[/b] ]As you can see, nobody here accepts your views and there are about 50 people in the whole world that do. It's hard to find such extremes like you, but we seem to have found one.

There are quite many who think the way I do and there are more and more of us for each day. Hundreds of millions of workers, peasants, students and intellectuals all over the world.

Quote[/b] ]to have a new subject.

what do you think about the Aggressiveness in the trade in China?

the fact also that the prices of a lof of goods have increase -wheat, metals etc etc?

And the fact that China is member of WTO but doesn't follow the rules.

Trade is trade. It's aimed at maximizing gain.

Price increases in basic food stuffs are a result of people making food into "biofuel".

[-Snafu- 78]

Marxism is a theory. It is not fact. Not a science. Don't see many Universities offering joint Marxism and Chemistry degrees. It's a social science. Studying people's behaviour. People are not logical (generally). Maths and science are logical.

You think you know everything in the world. Here's a fun fact: you don't. I try and go into everything with an open mind. You don't. You have already made up your mind. You are non-sensical. You are ridiculous. You contradict yourself all the time.

Oh and now you say there are hundreds of millions of you. Big fcuking LOL. Wait you must be right because Communist and Socialist parties are winning elections everywhere. Oh wait, you said that people do not know about these theories.  

You see how stupid you look? See how you contradict yourself?

Not to mention you rarely produce any evidence for your facts. Or is it all from your Crystal ball? Or that little voice inside your head?

[MehMan 0]

Quote[/b] ]Just as there are no death camps in North Korea, right?

Nope, there are no death camps in North Korea. (As far as I know). However, it's likely there are labour camps. Many prisoners in the US and in North Korea work while they are in jail.

"Labour" camps.

Camp 22

Camp 12

Just a couple. That we know about. Concentration camps. They are death camps, they either starve people to death or beat them to death, shoot them or experiment. Just like the Nazi regime. It's not a jail like in the US, yes the prisoners work in the US, but they don't die from working, neither are they beaten to death for no reason, neither are their families detained, neither are they generational camps.

Yes, there's abuse in US prisons too, but it gets reported and news spread out. Guard abuse is rarer than prisoner on prisoner abuse.

Quote[/b] ]Tell me when Cuba killed its dissidents. And then I mean, dissidents.

Here's one.

You can believe the accusations of the Cuban goverment or the other explanation.

An estimated 15k to 17k died from politcal persection in Cuba.

Quote[/b] ]The reason why you think it's strange is because you don't understand the difference. I don't know if you're trying. Stalin killed a few hundred thousand, that was bad, of course. In my eyes, he was say 80% good and 20% bad. Most people in Russia think he was more than 50% good. And they are supposed to have been oppressed and tortured by him. In fact Stalin contributed to the fact that the USSR still holds the growth record. Russians never lived that well before. Basic human rights were protected unlike in the west.

I don't understand the difference? There is no difference. It was cold murder. In camps, with exectuions or just starvation.

A few hunderd thousands? More like 3,5 million to 20 million. 700,000 people disappeared just during the Great Purge, where Stalin in his manic paranoia made them dissappear from the face of the earth. They even photoshopped pictures for crying out loud.

Most people? You know why so many think that? Because the rest were killed. All the people who showed the slightest opposition and even those with no grudge against Stalin got killed. School teachers that the children didn't like got deported to Gulags and killed. I could recommend a movie that deals with this era and the massive killings, that showed the situation, a Russian movie, but I can't recall the name.

People also like Hitler. Guess what, he was bad, so was Stalin. What does that tell you?

And don't pull up any polls, they are worth shit in my opinion. I've conducted those, you mainly get old people to answer, and do the math with what I said above.

Quote[/b] ]There are quite many who think the way I do and there are more and more of us for each day. Hundreds of millions of workers, peasants, students and intellectuals all over the world.

Like where? And a moronic college student wearing a Che Guevara shirt is not a supporter, he's a trend whore.

Hunderds of millions? Yes, they are rebelling against the tzar, right? The only reason why the socialist revolution happened in Russia was because it still had feudalism by 1917 while the rest of the European nations abolished the system more than 70 years prior to that.

If an intellectual supports you, he's not really that bright. Every socialist system has killed any intellectuals that thought differently than was allowed or spoke out against bad ideas. And intellectuals are famous for thinking differently.

And you are one of the 50 people that goes to the very extremes of things and calls us brainwashed, while the reality is reverse. You are the one who is brainwashed.

Can I ask you just one thing, where are you from?

[-Snafu- 78]

What Spokesperson doesn't undertsand is that Stalin is popular because he is a symbol of Russian power. Iron will against the invader. Blah blah blah. The people in Russia today won't understand what it was like to live under him. They won't really understand that. But it's ok for them as he is long dead and not a threat to their safety anymore. Exactly like Jacobitism in Scotland. Once the chance for the Stuarts to get back in power was long gone it was ok to 'flirt' with it. Like loyal toasts, for example.

Spokesperson won't tell you where he is from. But he has left enough comments to give you some idea. I seem to recall him saying his country had a monarchy. He has also used the word 'kindergarten' a number of times. Commonwealth country? Dutch? Maybe.

Anyway I'm just OT now.

[USSRsniper 0]

Spokesperson

I was talking about bigger property then jsut a house, what if you have your own factory, and then dictator comes and says give  it to me. And I never said about that i want USSR back or not, i'm jsut saying that you can't tell what people want by reading news.

And about russians having private security forces, US has more of them.. Blackwater for example.. And why i don't really like idea of getting USSR back. becase i have head, instead of beign brainwashed zombie, most of the people I know about, that want USSR badly, had their parents in communist party and were taking advantage over everyday people.  Don't think you wouldn't miss it, when you ccould get any car you want, live in better house then regualr people. USSR had idea about have everyone equal, but it really didn't work. People that want to abuse the system exist everywhere. Russia can still be strong as US, and be supepower, without getting USSR back. Even after USSR collapsed, US can't tell Russia what to do...

And don't get me started about alcoholism in Russia, what about US? Children in middle school already having sex, and then high school, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, school shootings, and large amounts of illegal weapons.  No one is perfect, eventhough most peopel want to have goverment perfect.  Especially Russia, which is biggest country, and when country is big, its harder to control it. And when you visited country, it doesn't make you know everything about it. Did any of your family members were in Afganistan? Or did any of your family members were liquidators in Chernobyl, with radiation levels lowered by officials, while they were much higher. Or did any of your family members survived the russian revolution, with nothing to eat?

[otk-member 0]

Quote[/b] ]More like 3,5 million to 20 million. 700,000 people disappeared just during the Great Purge, where Stalin in his manic paranoia made them dissappear from the face of the earth.

MehMan you told a bullshit.

You a victim of propagation.

It was not kept even traces of the system, capable to provide so scale reprisals: there is no necessary quantity of camps, there are no delivery roads, investigatory insulators. And tombs with " in millions shot " are not found. Is absent also there are no demographic effect which necessarily would give so enormous reprisals (besides famine and the Second World war).

Look at this, pal

It is demographic structure of the population of Russia. Look itself. Within reprisals - the population did not decrease! And it means that some hundreds thousand person have been killed. Not millions!

For an example. In the second world war Russia has lost 20 million person. Look the schedule - 1941-1945. Here so millions person look!

Years of political reprisals - 1930-1939. Look the schedule - the population only grows! Yes, there is some falling in 1930-1931 - but at that time there was a famine. And after - only growth of the population. And the big growth.

Quote[/b] ]By estimation of the historian (B. N. Zemskov), for the period from January, 1st,  1934 till December, 31st, 1947 in corrective-labour camps GuLaGa has died 963 766 prisoners, however in this number enter not only political concluded, but also condemned for criminal offences.

And now my opinion. Stalin was the ideal anti-recessionary manager. It has received a collapsing country without the industry. It has created from it one of the strongest countries of the world.

Yes, sometimes it was necessary to operate rigidly. But easy ways does not happen. But the purposes have been reached. And owing to it we have won the second world war. And you too, by the way. Really you think that your landing in Normandy was a determinative of war? LOL  

Read It! - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jun/11/russia.secondworldwar

Your "British Empire" already by that moment has lost all power. You were afraid to be put out from the island. Americans have helped. But if the red Army has not crushed 160 German divisions - your landing simply would smear on a beach of Normandy.

Germans by that moment, have already been beaten out from territory of the USSR. They receded. You send to finish off already half-dead opponent.

So learn history. But, only not history Churchill (Uinston Churchill - "the Second World War"). There the delirium is written.

But even he spoke good about Stalin

Quote[/b] ]It is very fortunate for Russia in her agony to have this great rugged war chief at her head. He is a man of massive outstanding personality, suited to the sombre and stormy times in wich his life has been cast; a man of inexhaustible courage and will-power and a man direct and even blunt in speech … Above all, he is a man with that saving sense of humour which is of high importance to all men and all nations, but particularly to great men and great nations. Stalin also left upon me the impression of a deep, cool wisdom and complete absence of illusions of any kind. I believe I made him feel that we were good and faithful comrades in this war — but this, after all, is a matter which deeds not words will prove.

An, after that - look at the man who start a cold war!

http://britannia.com/history/docs/sinews1.html

And here is Stalin answer. I will not translate it. Try to you own. http://www.coldwar.ru/stalin/about_churchill.php

P.S. I think Spokesperson from Russia. Like me.

[Sennacherib 0]

well this is the past, communism is dead, and with it, the dreams of Spokerson. (North Korea is not communist, but just lead by a dangerous monster.)

now, i'm more afraid by the illegal attack in Kurdistan by the Turkish army. they don't have the right to invade a country (Irak), whitout the agreement of NATO.

that could be a cause of a spreading of the war in this region. i think at Iran or maybe Syria.