Does the uk belong into europe

[Balschoiw 0]

Britain should get over her empire complex and join the european boat.

Right now, they are more blocking than supporting the EU and Blair should remember who his close allies are. False friends like Mr Bush won´t do much good for Britains people and soldiers.

If they continue to cook their own soup like with Iraq and try to undermine the EU like they did before and during the war, they are not ready for the EU idea. They are not ready for EU money also then

[denoir 0]

The British of all people should have no complaints about the proposed constitution. It will eliminate a lot of beaurocracy and special rules and regulations. It is mainly a consistent simplification of the rules that we have.

As from the EU, it should abandon its idea of trying to please everybody. You're not going to build a good foundation if you start integrating special interests of various countries in the core. What would be right would be to set an ultimatum for the constitution. If you don't ratify it, you're out. If the British don't want to join, fine. Leave them outside the EU and let them feel what it means to be outside. Let them see how happy they would be without getting a piece of the inter-European trade etc I mean, seriously, you can't have a prominent member in your organization that keeps sabotaging it and working against it. Ultimately it should be the choice of the British people, but Britain can't both have the cake or eat it. Either you are in and play ball like everybody else or pack your bags and try your fortunes elsewhere.

Actually I think that it would be the best thing to do. Let Britain stand on its own for a while and you'll see how quickly they'll come back and be proper team players.

There are three core problems with Britain. One is that it is suffering from island mentality and a portion of its citizens having delusions about the importance of their country in the world. The second problem that for decades consistently the British politicians have taken credit for all the EU successes while they blame all the bad things on the EU. It has led to a quite perverted view of EU. The third problem is a national paranoia of France and Germany running Britain.

The bottom line is still that Britain is an European country, doing trade with mainly other European countries has European views on most political things etc. Ultimately it's place is within the EU, both for its own benefit as well as for the benefit of the other European countries. While it for one reason or another may not be ready today, I'm very sure it will be one day.

Edit: Forgot to say that Sweden is quite similar to Britain in its EU thinking. Well educated people and people in the cities are pro-EU while people living in more rural areas (especially up north) tend to be very anti-EU.

[aj_addons 0]

im with the welsh guy in that i dont wont to belong to the uk either for the only reason that i would rather have a scottish mp screw us rather than a english one . plus there was a thing in the newspaper awhile ago saying that if scotland was to become independant from britain it would have to reapply to join the EU again

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Do you have to be so insensitive?  

This "paranoia" certainly does exist. But it did also exist between France and Germany, Poland and Germany, Holland and Germany but 2 generations of outstanding politicians have succeeded in bringing the countries together. And I dont mean "back" together cause there never had been great friendships between the major european nations.  Suddenly Mitterand, Delors, Kohl and many others became what we now consider the outstanding politicians of the last century. Strangely not because they defeated another nation but because they didnt.

In the UK Sir Winston Chruchill will for all times remain the major politician and soul of a Brit. And that simply because he defended his country against intruders! It is the Enemies that shape your national ego! That times have the possibility of changing things is in your eyes a fake excuse for a german to win back power. Maybe you remember the day when Thatcher came forward with a map of Nazi Germany and said "the germans want the european union? ...this here is what they realy want back". And I believe that deep deep down in most british hearts everyone believes that.

The fear of loosing something... where is that coming from. Probably Thatcher created that image of europe. For a german entrepreneur a european union means the opposite. If you are good you can take from others, be the best in your sector and you can expand into other european markets or find good partners. An opportunity!  But for a Brit it is a threat mixed up with the complex that foreign companies are stronger and will steal from and parasite the UK.

I agree that you may have to adapt to foreign standards, but you can also streamline certain aspects of other countries that improve the competitive power of your own companies. You want to seel more Mint Sauce. Fine! Then implement strict european guidelines for Mint Sauces that only the british can fullfill so far!

[stgn 39]

I think the EU is a good idear it and nukes prevent us form going to war whit each other, but ho knows maby in a vile we be shoting each other, Let's hope not.

I don't want the Euro(im Danish) either tho it would mean nothing as the Krone is locked to the Euro but If it goes down we all go down and I dont want French and Germany to run my contry either which they can do if they get permanently leaders in EU just beacuse they are big and we are very small I know that Denmark only 5 mio and ex Germany 85 mio but i don't want German laws or mentality.

STGN

[tankieboy 0]

Goodbye USA, goodbye Europe, Keep England English.

Take your bloody McShite and sue everything ethos with you.

Close the tunnel.

[denoir 0]

Keep England English.

Keep Scotland English and keep Wales English as well?  

[tankieboy 0]

So that is what I said.

OK keep the UK for the UK not Brussels or Washington.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I think the EU is a good idear it and nukes prevent us form going to war whit each other, but ho knows maby in a vile we be shoting each other, Let's hope not.

I don't want the Euro(im Danish) either tho it would mean nothing as the Krone is locked to the Euro but If it goes down we all go down and I dont want French and Germany to run my contry either which they can do if they get permanently leaders in EU just beacuse they are big and we are very small I know that Denmark only 5 mio and ex Germany 85 mio but i don't want German laws or mentality.

STGN

That is exactly what I mean!!!

A masterpiece of full misinterpretation of what the EU is about.

[denoir 0]

OK keep the UK for the UK not Brussels or Washington.

So, you think that this little globalization thing we have going on (trade, communications etc) is a bad thing?

I cannot help to notice that you happen to be using the internet, an American invention and apparently you use OFP, a Czech product. And you'll be replying that sure, you want trade and communications, but you don't want others imposing laws on you. Well, guess what? You can't both have the cake and eat it. If you want to do trade etc then you have to have a set of common rules. And automatically your economies will be tied. Through economy, so will politics.

So sure, UK for UK, fine, but live as you preach and burn your OFP CD and turn off that damn internet connection!

[theavonlady 2]

Close the tunnel.

It would be cheaper to just drill a hole in it and let it fill up slowly.

[MLF 0]

Keep England English.

Keep Scotland English and keep Wales English as well?  

Scotland is not part of England

[tankieboy 0]

OK keep the UK for the UK not Brussels or Washington.

So, you think that this little globalization thing we have going on (trade, communications etc) is a bad thing?

I cannot help to notice that you happen to be using the internet, an American invention and apparently you use OFP, a Czech product. And you'll be replying that sure, you want trade and communications, but you don't want others imposing laws on you. Well, guess what? You can't both have the cake and eat it. If you want to do trade etc then you have to have a set of common rules. And automatically your economies will be tied. Through economy, so will politics.

So sure, UK for UK, fine, but live as you preach and burn your OFP CD and turn off that damn internet connection!

Ok so I cant have a say without some smart arse ripping me a new one.

Maybe I a little pissed at loosing my job because the EC is expanding.

I will shut the fuck up and post nothing more so ‘stupid’.

P.S. Where are you from denoir?

[CosmicCastaway 0]

The problem is, in the UK in general the populace are forever being given a 'cloak and dagger' type of affair about the European Union in general. For whatever reason, successive UK governments have been extremely reluctant to involve the people in any sort of discussion about it (or even discuss it full stop!), and henceforth the general people on the street treat it with a level of suspicion.

This propsed referendum on the constitution is the first real involvement many people will have had. Personally I think a general constitution can only be a good thing, hopefully streamlining the whole adminning of the EU in general. Anything that reduces the levels of bureaucracy generally inherent in the system, can only be good.

As for the rest of Europe. The UK is practically there anyway. The integration of the Euro will always be sore point however. If it gets adopted or not, I don't really see it hindering cooperation/trade with Europe.

On a side note, I always enjoyed using the many varied currencies when I travelled through Europe, it added to the experience. Obviously having one single currency is easier and streamlines business and commerce, but it takes away some of the thrill of travelling in my opinion.

[denoir 0]

Scotland is not part of England

Yes, that was the point.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

On a side note, I always enjoyed using the many varied currencies when I travelled through Europe, it added to the experience.

Quote[/b] ]On a side note, I always enjoyed using the many varied currencies when I travelled through Europe

So true.   Bringing currencies back home and showing them to everyone. Collecting coins, either for yourself or for the day in the future you might have to travel there again.

But do you remember all those rip-off exchange-shops. Gare du Nord (Paris) that one realy screwed me over once! I was young, innocent and naive and couldnt speak a word of that strange language.

Now the money looks pretty boring and the individualised image on the coins dont change anything about it.

[denoir 0]

Ok so I cant have a say without some smart arse ripping me a new one.

It's a debate, what did you expect?

Quote[/b] ]Maybe I a little pissed at loosing my job because the EC is expanding.

Well that sucks I'm sure but it's a normal development. It is an inevitable effect of globalization that you trim the business organization. That has however little to do with EU, the political organization.

Quote[/b] ]

P.S. Where are you from denoir?

Sweden

[tankieboy 0]

Well this ‘little person’ knows it going to happen as it is already. But I wont help it along.

The country has gone to the dogs anyhow so good luck to Washington and Brussels.

I’ll just be around the corner eating a McIRA burger in the no smoking café sipping my €8 latte.

[MLF 0]

o loved the dutch money, so colourful and bright, especially with all sunflowes on them.

[denoir 0]

I’ll just be around the corner eating a McIRA burger in the no smoking café sipping my €8 latte.

Yepp, but that's globalization for you. It's a general world trend and has very little to do with the EU. It's the huge multinational corporations that you should complain about.

Not that it will make any difference. What is the alternative? Going back living in caves? You can't just pick the parts that you like. It doesn't and can't work that way. And again, this is not an Americanization or Europization of Britian, it is a globalization. Everybody else around the world will be eating the McIRA burger as well.

Britain does not exist in a void. If you wish to trade with the world you'll have to do it on the same terms as everybody else. And that's how we end up with the McIRA cost efficient burger solution.

[tankieboy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe I a little pissed at loosing my job because the EC is expanding.

Well that sucks I'm sure but it's a normal development. It is an inevitable effect of globalization that you trim the business organization. That has however little to do with EU, the political organization.

So Customs borders have nothing to do with politics.

Thanks for the info.

So when is Sweden joining the EU?

[denoir 0]

So Customs borders have nothing to do with politics.

Of course it does. Sure and there are other areas that will be affected (how many new jobs in Brussels?) but those are special cases.

If you want to talk work, then you should look at the European work market that is open to you.

Quote[/b] ]So when is Sweeden joining the EU?

We joined in '95.

[tankieboy 0]

So Customs borders have nothing to do with politics.

Of course it does. Sure and there are other areas that will be affected (how many new jobs in Brussels?) but those are special cases.

If you want to talk work, then you should look at the European work market that is open to you.

Quote[/b] ]So when is Sweeden joining the EU?

We joined in '95.

Oops my bad. Got mixed up.

[denoir 0]

Total crap.

Come on wife and kids we are moving into the European motherland so daddy can get a job.

No different than "Come on wife and kids we are moving to London so daddy can get a job."

or

"Come on wife and kids we are moving to Scotland so daddy can get a job." or whatever.

Quote[/b] ]Just sit behind your borders and preach mate.

I have worked for a German company and I'm planning to move to south of France for a year or so.

[Postduifje 0]

Total crap.

Strong argument

Anyway, I'm not british, but am pro-europe, so I say they either join fully or walk away, but make up your mind for once!