The dutroux trial has begun.

[JAP 2]

Uhm

Try getting DSL in spain ... only took us about 6 weeks to complete ... not counting the 3 years we couldnt get phone cause the builders had squashed the pipe where the phoneline needed to go trough to get into the house ... which they didn t know where it was anymore and so did nothing to avoid taking the whole driveway, parking and terras apart.

I can write a book.

[Drakkhen 0]

[...]most of us consider you as the "little retarded neighboor" i know it is wrong but hell ..... when you offer us such exemples, how can we not follow the bandwagon and think all belgians are stupid and worst ?

French people on the other hand are generally quite proud and this pride sometimes reaches arrogance. We"re often no better than belgians, but at least we try to hide it.[...]

If this defines a french, then I know none.

Sorry, I'm french and I don't have such stupid considerations about who's the dumbest of our neighbours. We have ours and it's already more than enough. And the others taking part in this conversation are just the same: what the Hell!!!... are you trying to make the image of SOME people in very specific circumstances the image of whole countries and their people?

Stick to the dutroux crap and leave the other considerations with your naive views of the World.

"Il y a de plus en plus de con chaque année. Je crois que ceux de l'année prochaine sont déjŕ lŕ." Coluche

"There's more jerks each year. I think that next year ones are already here." Coluche

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]are you trying to make the image of SOME people in very specific circumstances the image of whole countries and their people?

I agree ,they are steriotype's of people's ,not a true reflection of what a people is ,i expressed that in my post to.This Frecnh/Belgian squabble was started by Ran ,though addmitingly he it probably started as a joke.So we fired some steriotype's back at him ,but i think noone here does even think that those steriotype's are a true reflection for the totality of that people.

I think Ran's comment was ment as a joke ,and although i don't like nation bashing i'm not i wouldn't advocate a total ban on not to offensive nation joke's.If i would see a dutchman here making joke's on Flemmish i would probably laugh at them and fire some jokes back.

I also expressed that this thread should return to the original topic.If allowed such not to offensive nation jokes should be limited to a joke forum or joke thread in the OT forum.

[Jacko 0]

Yep this is the time I don't watch TV or read the newsparper for 3 months anymore.

You put the tv on and what you see, he's ugly face.

This guy is getting way too much attention (I think he even likes it).

I'm tired if this farce

[ran 0]

[...]most of us consider you as the "little retarded neighboor" i know it is wrong but hell ..... when you offer us such exemples, how can we not follow the bandwagon and think all belgians are stupid and worst ?

French people on the other hand are generally quite proud and this pride sometimes reaches arrogance. We"re often no better than belgians, but at least we try to hide it.[...]

If this defines a french, then I know none.

Sorry, I'm french and I don't have such stupid considerations about who's the dumbest of our neighbours. We have ours and it's already more than enough. And the others taking part in this conversation are just the same: what the Hell!!!... are you trying to make the image of SOME people in very specific circumstances the image of whole countries and their people?

Stick to the dutroux crap and leave the other considerations with your naive views of the World.

"Il y a de plus en plus de con chaque année. Je crois que ceux de l'année prochaine sont déjŕ lŕ." Coluche

"There's more jerks each year. I think that next year ones are already here." Coluche

well, i don't know you personnaly, but it's the general feeling i have when i talk with my friends, relatives and coworkers

Get off your high horses, the Naational front has maade quite an impressive score during the last elections ...... not everybody is as white as you seem (no pun intended), a large ammount of people share the moronic view of this party and an even bigger part of the population in populous/industrious franges thinks that way, which is, i have to admit quite scary.

Now it's great to see somebody not basing his words on stereotypes but your definition of a mainstream, basic, rough frenchman is not mine ... and believe me, i've been able to see quite a few people during my yet short life to make the comparaison. Our population is in great parts made of bigots except mainly in the youth and some idealists. We will all go lower than dirt in certain circumstances and crawl in the mud.

When our president makes speeches about the "noise and odors" of an african familly, you can only fear the worst about the rest of the population, which often comes true.

But admittedly, our Belgian neighboors aren't the brightest when it comes to certain (numerous) domains (sorry but that's the thruth, well, at least for the Wallons i got to meet)

and notice the bold part

and finally, my view of the world is certainly flawed, but not so naive

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]are you trying to make the image of SOME people in very specific circumstances the image of whole countries and their people?

I agree ,they are steriotype's of people's ,not a true reflection of what a people is ,i expressed that in my post to.This Frecnh/Belgian squabble was started by Ran ,though addmitingly he it probably started as a joke.So we fired some steriotype's back at him ,but i think noone here does even think that those steriotype's are a true reflection for the totality of that people.

I think Ran's comment was ment as a joke ,and although i don't like nation bashing i'm not i wouldn't advocate a total ban on not to offensive nation joke's.If i would see a dutchman here making joke's on Flemmish i would probably laugh at them and fire some jokes back.

I also expressed that this thread should return to the original topic.If allowed such not to offensive nation jokes should be limited to a joke forum or joke thread in the OT forum.

i was not trying to bash anything, just describing what goes through the head of some of my "fellow" countrymen i share none of these views (well, except a few on which you agree too such as flaws in your justice). (though i have to admit some of my past experiences with belgians could be a great sources for jokes, for both sides)

Stereotypes are unfortunately one of the things which counts the most in people's minds.

[Drakkhen 0]

I see that there is no really offensive words yet. But always think about the ones who will take it as written.

American/French relations are kept cold because of such considerations, just look at papers and street interviews, for example and the first thing you get answered when you ask about french are these stereotypes and it's just getting boring. (I'm half-corsican, half-parisian... from my first half, I'm overproud, stubborn, touchy and lazy, from the second half, I'm disdainful, haughty, overpaid and egocentric... sure, I am since I talk about me right now )

Well... clichés are the essence of misunderstanding... let's try to avoid them, even for joking, in a thread about such a serious subject.

Quote[/b] ]not everybody is as white as you seem

"Un pur trouve toujours un plus pur qui l'épure." P.Valery

"A pure always finds someone more pure who purifies him." P.Valery

[Apollo 0]

The media coverage is not my only problem with this trial ,the other problem ist that FFS the investigation hasn't even been done correctly.Their has been a bad investigation work on the whole network behind Dutroux ,wich did exist and has just been put into the "Doofput". (a quite well known term in Flemmish wich you could translatte as "silence pit" ,meaning it's covvered up)

BBC once did an investigated report on the possible network behind Dutroux.At one point there wer on a good way ,but a few annonymous people that tried to talk about that network to the BBC were suddently Missing ,some not found yet ,one found Murdered in Liege.Even the BBC concluded that this case was so covered up that any new witness to the case that could supply information was killed before he could do that ,and the ones that did come forward but couldn't make their case hard innitinally were systematicly made rediculous by the police and justice apparatus and by the media.

There just isn't justice in this country.If you are a poor or simple middle clas person out here you can get rediculous punishments for small offenses to the law (try to park youre car wrong with the new "super fine's) ,but people that laundre Billion's of Euro's ,destroy whole company's get virtually nothing as punishment.Money can buy you justice out here ,truly ,and it can deffinatly buy you political connections ,as they are cheap and political connections can get you everywhere in this country.

Damn Free mason guilds in this country ,we should burn down theyre guild houses.  

Quote[/b] ]American/French relations are kept cold because of such considerations, just look at papers and street interviews, for example and the first thing you get answered when you ask about french are these stereotypes and it's just getting boring. (I'm half-corsican, half-parisian... from my first half, I'm overproud, stubborn, touchy and lazy, from the second half, I'm disdainful, haughty, overpaid and egocentric... sure, I am since I talk about me right now )

Oh but that was something tottaly else ,those were American's.  

I mean when they came up with their "Freedom fires" and variant's ,i really defended the French ,i mean that was just really retarted ,especially if you consider fries are BELGIAN.  

(even Asterix admits that)

I mean genneraly when American's start to Bash people it isnt funny anymore ,they take it to exagurated levels.Even the Canadians get murder feeling's when another American asks what he has done with his lumberjack clothes.  

[Pipski 0]

Won't be long `til every country in Europe has had its big media trial though. Germany just had its cannibal case, here in Britain we just had the Soham murder trial (fallout from which is still landing), not sure how the Swedish media are handling the guy who shot the foreign secretary ... How long before we all have televised trials and the other trappings of mob justice?

[ran 0]

I see that there is no really offensive words yet. But always think about the ones who will take it as written.

American/French relations are kept cold because of such considerations, just look at papers and street interviews, for example and the first thing you get answered when you ask about french are these stereotypes and it's just getting boring. (I'm half-corsican, half-parisian... from my first half, I'm overproud, stubborn, touchy and lazy, from the second half, I'm disdainful, haughty, overpaid and egocentric... sure, I am since I talk about me right now )

Well... clichés are the essence of misunderstanding... let's try to avoid them, even for joking, in a thread about such a serious subject.

Quote[/b] ]not everybody is as white as you seem

"Un pur trouve toujours un plus pur qui l'épure." P.Valery

"A pure always finds someone more pure who purifies him." P.Valery

Citations.com ? j/k mate

nice to see somebody with some general culture (a thing i badly lack)

AFAIK, i'm a quarter Italian, a quarter peasant from the Poitou(no, i'm not Raffy), a quarter polish and a quarter Parisian (not sure about the proportions )

so go make a list of all the clichés i could be the victim of

there's one thing that's universal to the whole Mankind, it's stupidity

I don't know who I don't know when

[ran 0]

Won't be long `til every country in Europe has had its big media trial though. Germany just had its cannibal case, here in Britain we just had the Soham murder trial (fallout from which is still landing), not sure how the Swedish media are handling the guy who shot the foreign secretary ... How long before we all have televised trials and the other trappings of mob justice?

next one : Jacques Chirac ? (would be nice to see this old crook finally jailed)

back on topic :

What was the opinion of the Belgian people about the flawed investigations concerning the affair ?

Do people actually believe in the "conspiration theories" to protect political heads ?

[Drakkhen 0]

Quote[/b] ]political heads

I easily imagine that's not only a belgian problem here, there were dutroux partners in other Union countries.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]What was the opinion of the Belgian people about the flawed investigations concerning the affair ?

Do people actually believe in the "conspiration theories" to protect political heads ?

I do ,our media ,politicians and justice opperates denies it so i don't know how others think about it.But i folowed the case with BBC to instead Belgian media alone ,and from BBC i know that all their investigations in the case had to be ceased simply because the leads they had ,the people that wanted to talk to them ,misteriously dissapeared some of them to be found later murdered.

Someone was covering stuff up ,and by very violent means.

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]political heads

I easily imagine that's not only a belgian problem here, there were dutroux partners in other Union countries.

Well ... pedophily networks and pedophiles are a nasty thing, a disgrace of the Earth's surface, unfortunately, you find deviants everywhere.

[Drakkhen 0]

Well ... pedophily networks and pedophiles are a nasty thing, a disgrace of the Earth's surface, unfortunately, you find deviants everywhere.

And everytime. Julius Caesar was "proud" of having had many conquests (in bed) whatever sex, and whatever age... in these times they didn't care, it was a sign of power.

But like they say on the other side of the Atlantic "things change"... time to clean it all up.

[Frisbee 0]

Firstly,allow me to agree with Ran that our cousins in the south really are a little backwards. (the EU acknowledges that they're lagging behind,at least economically)

A lot of the negative things you hear from Belgium originate south of the language barrier.

The farce with our foreign minister bashing the US and Israel, the whole deal about the ability to sue foreign leaders in Belgian courtrooms.

Minister of foreign affairs, 'un wallon' his idea's.

Fact of the matter is, we have a very complicated political structure, because of the three languages (only two of them posing an actual problem), and four main political area's with conflicting interests.

Politically you can't get anything done here,there has to be a 2/3 majority, but conveniently that's just enough for the 'wallons' to sink every little thing that would hurt them.

Even in the judiciary system, this language barrier sometimes pops up, you'll be hard pressed to find cops south of the language barrier who speak Dutch, and it wouldn't surprise me that there's animosity between the Dutch- and French speaking departments sometimes.

Belgium, known for its fine beers, fine chocolates, and fine bureaucratical compromises which accomplish nothing.

[Apollo 0]

But the Question remains that if this network existed (wich i do not doubt) ,then do they still exist? The cold fact is that their are still young girls dissapearing in Belgium from time to time...  

Looked at a rerun of "terzake" on Canvas ,PM Verhofstadt had an interview with Phara de Agguire. (Phara is a tough one)

She kept slamming Verhofstadt with the fact that many parts of the investigation were still unresolved ,so Verhofstadt said that he hoped that the trial would clear up some unresolved matters.

I mean hellooo ,if thing's in the investigation were still unresolved ,then should'nt they have continued with it? Or shouldn't they have taken this case from the clearly incompetent Langlois who wasted 6 years doing nothing on the doessier while Connerotte had done a very good job in those 2 years albeit having found and arrested Dutroux?Even Langlous himself expressed at the start of his investigation (after that the whole doessier had first been moved to another location ,with a whole set of new "investigators" on it ) that he din't believe in Networks ,thereby shutting any investigation onto that route as thus resulting in the fact that many things are still unclear.

[Frisbee 0]

It's probably a given that sucha network existed, and if it did, it probably still does.

It's silly that it's being investigated again, now, now when all the traces are cold, when no more real trails of evidence can be investigated.

It's just the same as 'the gang from nijvel', the investigations are still open, it's a joke.

[Acecombat 0]

Real sick .... send him to Neverland Ranch ...

[Balschoiw 0]

I´ve recently read a book from Wiglaf Droste. It´s called "Bombardiert Belgien", translated "Bombard Belgium".

It´s a very cynical book about belgium.

Here´s an excerpt in german, don´t know if there is an english version available:

"Seltsam, diese Belgier. Erst die Kinder, dann die Hühner. Wer ist der nächste? Wir? Jedenfalls ist das ein komisches Volk. Man hört nichts Gutes vom Belgier. Frittenwampe bis zu den Knien, aber sich an Kindern vergehen. Aber? Wieso aber? Ist Kinderschänden ohne Wampe besser? Schwer zu sagen. Sieht aber vielleicht besser aus, auf Video. Dauernd frißt der Belgier Fritten. Die ganze Zeit. Außer, wenn er das mit den Kindern macht. Dazu muß er ja wahrscheinlich die Hände frei haben. Hinterher frißt er dann wieder Fritten. "Fritte danach", nennt der Belgier das."

No wonder that these impression arise abroad when we look at the current trial held.

All the investigations have been a mess, gently spoken.

And I wouldn´t be surprised if the case will be closed soon without any hard punishments.

[JAP 2]

And I wouldn´t be surprised if the case will be closed soon without any hard punishments.

Nope.

I dont believe that will be possible. If this trail fails without any serious punishment it ll be anarchy here ! Believe me, Belgians will rise up then.

What is possible is that the main characters behind the "alleged" phedo network will go unpunished and unknown who they are.

Then again, it s always possible the guilty ones will be found eventually with another government, look at the Augusta affair ( fraude with buying Belgians attack chopper ).

Apart from the law system and the scandals right now i still think this is a pretty nice country to live in.

It s about time the Walloon part of Belgium joins France ... That will solve alot of negative views of our country. I dont mind the Flemish side joining Holland ( there were once suggestions about that IIRC )

Cheers

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

bastard!!!

on the day of the trial on which the parents of the dead children showed up Dutroux got bored of the trial and took a nap. When the mothers saw that they nearly collapsed and the fathers were nearly exploding filled with grieve.

I still believe Belgium is a highly corrupted country. if Dutroux is pushed into a corner he will come forward with names of important people being involved in child abuse. If this happens Belgium will drop into anarchy for a few day. That I assure you, the belgium citizens are realy angry these days and expect a lot from this trial.

[ran 0]

It s about time the Walloon part of Belgium joins France ... That will solve alot of negative views of our country. I dont mind the Flemish side joining Holland ( there were once suggestions about that IIRC )

Cheers

NO WAY !!!

(well, really : no way)

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]It s about time the Walloon part of Belgium joins France ... That will solve alot of negative views of our country. I dont mind the Flemish side joining Holland ( there were once suggestions about that IIRC )

Cheers

But could you immagine the border problem's? Who the hell would get Brussels for ex?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I would say it should join germany. We could need some cheap labour working in our mines and building our tanks and new submarines.