Haiti president have left the building/haiti

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Jean-Bertrand Aristide isn't really popular w/ nobody at the moment.

So maybe we should send some UN troops to Washington to "escort" G.W to the airport ?  

Sorry couldn´t hold it.  

Edit: I´d volunteer for that any moment.

[llauma 0]

Quote[/b] ]Jean-Bertrand Aristide isn't really popular w/ nobody at the moment.

So maybe we should send some UN troops to Washington to "escort" G.W to the airport ?  

Sorry couldn´t hold it.  

Edit: I´d volunteer for that any moment.

I'll be an observer as long as I get a few cold beers

[red oct 2]

that depends on whether we have trouble w/ elections again.

if that were the case we could banish georgie to Saudi Arabia, he'd fit right in

plenty of oil

plenty of conservitives

plenty of executions

a place his daughters could learn how to behave for once

warm weather like Texas

no worries of corporate corruption (already plenty of that there)

he could even become their new royal leader

Saudi Arabia to Bush Arabia

House of Saud to House of George

[Balschoiw 0]

You forgot one thing. The telephone bill wouldn´t be that high as it is right now when his family makes deals with the Bin Laden group as they are used to.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

There is no nice way to say this, but the problem with Haiti is that it's a banana republic that lacks any democratic culture. Until the people get their shit together and realize that you change a leader by electing somebody else, and not by throwing a revolution, there won't be stability. The only leaders that will emerge will be those that are proficient in the art of by force removing their predecessors. And you don't build a democracy on such foundation.

As for the US (and in this case EU as well plus the other western countries) the main problem all over again is the opinion that democracy is "the right of the people to elect somebody we like". If they were going to send in troops anyway, they should have protected Aristide and his democratically elected government, even if they did not agree with his politics. Instead, not only did they not help him but they asked him to step down. And by that they actively contributed to the sabotage of Haiti's democratic evolution.

I cannot however stress enough that the blame mainly lies with the people in Haiti who decided to destroy the democratic process by throwing a revolution.

So its Haiti's fault for the US meddling with their business?

[denoir 0]

It's Haiti's fault that they started a friggin revolution. It was not US troops that started shooting around. It was not the US that overthrew Aristide, it was the people of Haiti. So it's a no-brainer that it was fully their fault.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

It's Haiti's fault that they started a friggin revolution. It was not US troops that started shooting around. It was not the US that overthrew Aristide, it was the people of Haiti. So it's a no-brainer that it was fully their fault.

Are you being funny or are you really that naive

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

bmgarcangel- on the contrary if you look at the immediate context of the debate preceding my post you will see that i was simply illustrating the 'damned if we do, damned if we dont' position that the US is in at the moment in regards to deploying troops abroad -specifically in response to the previous post..

Quote[/b] ]And I thought these times were finally over...  

I mean, Haiti can not become another Soviet outpost and a threat to the USA anymore. It has no significant resources or a major market for US products. I'd rather send more troops to Iraq instead of getting involved into another mess like Haiti.

Damn imperialists! The USA behave like in 1880...

Denoir-

Quote[/b] ]There is no nice way to say this, but...

 I agree and thats why i dont particularly suspect the US of orchestrating the rebel uprising itself. In the wake of 'Iraq' (and all the underhandedness thats been implied or revealed in relation) people are keen to tie in Haiti to any seeming US imperialism or manipulation. But in a place like Haiti for now ill take the simpler explanation until i see some positive proof of US intelligence involvement (though clearly the US could have done a lot more to keep Aristide in power, im not convinced they engineered the coup).

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

bmgarcangel- on the contrary if you look at the immediate context of the debate preceding my post you will see that i was simply illustrating the 'damned if we do, damned if we dont' position that the US is in at the moment in regards to deploying troops abroad -specifically in responce to the previous post..

Quote[/b] ]And I thought these times were finally over...  

I mean, Haiti can not become another Soviet outpost and a threat to the USA anymore. It has no significant resources or a major market for US products. I'd rather send more troops to Iraq instead of getting involved into another mess like Haiti.

Damn imperialists! The USA behave like in 1880...

Denoir-

Quote[/b] ]There is no nice way to say this, but...

 I agree and thats why i dont particularly suspect the US of orchestrating the rebel uprising itself. In the wake of 'Iraq' (and all the underhandedness thats been implied or revealed in relation) people are keen to tie in Haiti to any seeming US imperialism or manipulation. But in a place like Haiti for now ill take the simpler explanation until i see some positive proof of US intelligence involvement (though clearly the US could have done a lot more to keep Aristide in power, im not convinced they engineered the coup).

Read this:

http://members.aol.com/bblum6/haiti2.htm

I dont see why or how it could be any different this time round.

Anytime something goes wrong with a Latin American government, you can almost bet money on the US being involved somehow.

[miles teg 1]

Well of coarse. Us Americans have to take care of little brown brothers who are too primitive to take care of themselves. It's our duty as a Christian nation.

I'm being sarcastic but that's been our attitude towards Latin America for the entire history of the United States.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[denoir 0]

It's Haiti's fault that they started a friggin revolution. It was not US troops that started shooting around. It was not the US that overthrew Aristide, it was the people of Haiti. So it's a no-brainer that it was fully their fault.

Are you being funny or are you really that naive

Neither, but I'm not being a conspiracy theorist that sees Uncle Sam [ ] hiding in the bushes everywhere.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Ex-RoNiN- Yeah, I agree to the extent that if i was a US citizen i would be demanding an investigation into what happened, Aristides 'kidnap' allegations, why the US purports to be a supporter of democracy but then when a local democracy is going under, helps it on its way at best and at worst whether the CIA was still in contact with its former murderous contacts and contributed concretely to Aristides downfall.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Witnesses: "Aristide Under Lock & Key"

Sunday a.m. in the Central African Republic: Haiti President Is Cut Off from Attorney, Delegation

For Immediate Release

March 7, 2004

Contact:

Sarah Sloan or Brian Becker

202-904-7949, 202-544-3389

A delegation from the United States has arrived in the Central African Republic to meet with overthrown Haitian President Jean Bertrand-Aristide. President Aristide was taken involuntarily to the Central African Republic following a U.S. coup d’etat on February 28. The group was granted visas on Thursday and Friday and departed the United States on Friday evening.

The delegation includes Kim Ives from the Haiti Support Network, and Johnnie Stevens and Sara Flounders from the International Action Center. Ives, Flounders and Stevens are representing former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark. Also on the delegation are Brian Concannon, acting in the capacity of President Aristide’s lawyer; and Katherine Kean, a friend of President Aristide.

Kim Ives, a personal friend of Jean-Bertrand and Mildred Aristide, said “This morning, the delegation went to the Palace of the Renaissance, the presidential compound where President Aristide is being held.†Mr. Ives had spoken to the Foreign Minister on Thursday to inform him that the delegation was coming to the Central African Republic to meet with President Aristide.

“We were stopped at the gates by a guard who contacted a Central African Republic official inside the building. A representative of the Central African Republic came out to speak with us,†Ives reported. “We asked to go in to visit President Aristide and were told we could not. We asked if he could come out to see us, and we were told no. We asked if we could send in a note or our phone number, and we were told no. The official then told us that he had spoken with the Minister of Defense and that Aristide was not allowed to receive visitors.â€

Mr. Ives also reported that he placed a call to the cell phone that the Aristides have been using to place calls to their friends, attorneys and the media. “Mildred Aristide answered the phone. I said, ‘Hello Mildred, this is Kim Ives, we are here.’ At that point, the phone line went dead. We have tried to call many times since then but there has been no answer.â€

Brian Concannon is also a member of the delegation, acting in the capacity of President Aristide’s attorney. Standing outside the gates of the compound where President Aristide is being held, Mr. Concannon requested to meet with President Aristide alone for a consultation. This was also denied.

“The world has been told that President Aristide is free to come and go, and that he has simply chosen not to leave,†said Sara Flounders of the International Action Center. “The fact that our delegation has been denied all forms of contact with President Aristide confirms, in fact, that he is being kept under lock and key, at this point not even able to communicate by phone.â€

“The U.S. and French governments chose to take Aristide to the Central African Republic, a formerly colonized and impoverished country,†said Johnnie Stevens of the International Action Center. “The Central African Republic, similar to many formerly colonized countries in Africa and around the world, has been isolated and underdeveloped because of the past policies of France, the U.S. and other colonial and neo-colonial powers. The U.S. and France should be paying reparations to the Central African Republic.â€

To schedule an interview with a member of the delegation or to get more information, contact Sarah Sloan or Brian Becker at 202-904-7949 or 202-544-3389.

After Haiti, Venezuela is wary of US interference

Quote[/b] ]Haitians watched last week as US agents whisked leftist President Jean-Bertrand Aristide off to the heart of Africa in what Mr. Aristide describes as a kidnapping. In Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez, another leftist who has antagonized Washington, has harshly accused the White House of backing coup-plotters against him. Critical of US action in Haiti, he warned the US on Friday to "get its hands off Venezuela."

Quote[/b] ]"[Washington] wants a government which will kneel down before them, in order to take Venezuela's natural resources," he says.

Quote[/b] ]The US has earned Chávez's ire by sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to anti-Chávez organizations here and by issuing a steady stream of criticisms of Chávez policies. On Saturday, President Bush expressed support for the referendum process.

Quote[/b] ]Michael Shifter, an analyst with the Inter-American Dialogue in Washington, says the White House has repeatedly fumbled - and damaged its image - in Latin America because the terror war has distracted its attention. "[A problem] reaches a crisis point and then it's too late, and Washington reacts badly," he says.

[-33ker 0]

How is the american continent ever supposed to become peacefull if the US are always manipulating all the other countries.

[Jus_ 0]

They only tell you what they want you to see, and no more. Sometimes they even lie just to get support, we've seen that in Iraq...

There's just so much going on behind the scenes with the intelligence agencies that we don't know of.

[EiZei 0]

Then again, Aristide could be just exploiting USes long history of coups and supporting brutal autocrats in the latin america in order to shift the blame..

[bn880 5]

Achieving what exactly?

[SpongeBob 0]

Aristide Declares He Still Rules Haiti

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - Jean-Bertrand Aristide declared from African exile Monday that he was still president of Haiti, while U.S. Marines investigated a shooting that left five people dead during a march celebrating the former leader's ouster.

"I am the democratically elected president and I remain so. I plead for the restoration of democracy" in Haiti, Aristide told reporters in Bangui, the capital of the Central African Republic. "We appeal for a peaceful resistance."

[Balschoiw 0]

complete coverage of the interview :

Quote[/b] ]AMY GOODMAN: I am Amy Goodman from the radio/TV program Democracy Now! around the United States. We would like to know why you left Haiti.

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: Thank you. First of all, I didn't leave Haiti because I wanted to leave Haiti. They forced me to leave Haiti. It was a kidnapping, which they call coup d'etat or [inaudible] ...forced resignation for me. It wasn't a resignation. It was a kidnapping and under the cover of coup d'etat.

AMY GOODMAN: It was a kidnapping under the cover of coup d'etat?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Who forced you out of the country?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE:I saw U.S. officials with Ambassador Foley.

Mr. Moreno, [inaudible...] at the U.S. Embassy in Haiti I saw American soldiers. I saw former soldiers who are linked to drug dealers like Guy Philippe and to killers already convicted, Chamblain. They all did the kidnapping using Haitian puppets like Guy Philippe, [inaudible], and Chamblain, already convicted, and basically, this night, I didn't see Haitians, I saw Americans.

AMY GOODMAN: So, you say that they kidnapped you from the country. Secretary of State Powell said that that is ridiculous. Donald Rumsfeld said that is nonsense. Your response?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: Well, I understand they try to justify what they cannot justify. Their own ambassador, ambassador Foley said we were going to talk to the media, to the press, and I can talk to the Haitian people calling for peace like I did one night before. And unfortunately, once they put me in their car, from my residence, a couple of days later, they put me in their planes full with military, because they already had all of the control of the Haitian airport in Port-au-Prince. And during the night, they surrounded my house, and the National Palace, and we had some of them in the streets. I don't know how many are -- were there. So it's clearly something they planned and they did. Now, if someone wants to justify what I think they cannot justify and that's -- my goal is to tell the truth. This is what now I'm telling you -- the truth.

AMY GOODMAN: President Aristide, did you resign the Presidency?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: No, I did not resign. I exchanged words through conversations, we exchanged notes. I gave a written note before I went to the press at the time. And instead of taking me where they said they were taking me in front of the Haitian press, the foreign press, to talk to the people, to explain what is going on, to call for peace. They used that note as a letter of resignation, and I say, they are lying.

AMY GOODMAN: When you went into the car from your house, did you understand you were going to the airport and being flown out?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: Not at all. Because this is not what they told me. This was our best way to avoid bloodshed. We talked with them somehow in a nice, diplomatic way to avoid bloodshed, we played the best we could in a respectful way, in a legal and diplomatic way. Because they that told me that they were going to have bloodshed. Thousands of people were going to be killed, including myself. As I said, it was not for me, because I never cared about me, my life, my security. First of all, I care about the security and lives of other people. I was elected to protect the life of every single citizen. So, that night I did my best to avoid bloodshed and when they took me, putting me in their plane, that was their plan. My strategy was then all I could [do] to avoid bloodshed.

AMY GOODMAN: Are you being held in the Central African Republic against your will?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: Actually, against my will, exactly. Let me tell you, this past twenty hours on the American plane with American soldiers, including nineteen American agents who had an agreement with the Haitian government to provide security to us. They were also in that plane, maybe, to keep the truth in the plane, instead of having one of them telling the truth out of the plane. Because one of them had a baby, one year and-a-half in the plane - he was an American guy - and they wouldn't give him a chance to get out of the plane with the baby. My wife, the first lady, who was born in the United States, her father and mother were Haitians, with me. She didn't have the right to even move the shade and look out through the windows. Which means, they violated their own law. Until twenty minutes before I arrived here, I knew where they request going to land, which means clearly, clear violation of international law. Unfortunately, they did that, but fortunately, I pay tribute to the government of Central Africa for the way they welcomed us. It was gracious, human, good, and until now, this is the time kind of relationship which we are developing together. I thank them for that once again.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you want to happen now?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: I always call for peace. Those who realize their kidnapping cannot bring peace to the violence in my country. CARICOM, which means all of the heads of the Caribbean countries, call for peace and restoration of Constitutional order. In some way we heard the voice of Americans - American Senators, American members, U.S. members, members of the U.S. parliament. They're all -- they're all U.S. citizens and the Haitians are actually calling for peace for the restoration of Constitutional order. This is what I also call for. Allow me to give you a very simple example. Peace means for us, in this time, education and investment in health care. In my country, after 200 years of independence -- we are the first black independent country in the world - but we still have only one-point-five Haitian doctors for its 11,000 Haitians. We created a university, we founded a university with the faculty of medicine that has 247 students. Once U.S. soldiers arrived in Haiti after the kidnapping, what did they do? They closed the faculty of medicine and they are now in the classrooms. This is what they call peace. This is the opposite of peace. Peace means investing in human beings, investing in health care, respect for human rights, not violations for human rights, no violations for the rights of those who voted for an elected President, and this is what it means. It means that, for humans in the world, today this is their day, [inaudible] men in the world, all together, we can all work hard to restore peace and constitutional order to Haiti.

AMY GOODMAN: This is president Jean-Bertrand Aristide speaking from the Central African Republic. Did you want to return as President to Haiti now?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: If it's possible now, yes, now. Whenever it's possible, I am ready because this is what my people voted for.

AMY GOODMAN: Are you being held -- do you see yourself as being held as a prisoner in the Central African Republic?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: Here I say it again, the people and government and the President, President Bozize, they are gracious, the way they treat us. I just paid public tribute to them, and if you have citizens of Central Africa listening to me, allow me to tell them [inaudible], which means thank you very much, because their country is a country called zo-quo-zu, in the language which means every human being is a human being. All that is to say, we I am grateful to them. But when you living in a house or in a palace that is their palace, which is a good sign of respect for us, and we are living in their conditions, although it's still good because of the way they welcome us, we also feel that we should be in Haiti with the Haitian people doing our best to keep investing in education, health care, building a state of law. Slowly, but surely, building up that state of law.

AMY GOODMAN: President Aristide, at least five people were killed in Haiti on Sunday. Opposition leaders say it was pro-Aristide forces that opened fire. Also including journalists - a Spanish journalist based in New York was shot dead. Another was also shot. Your response?

PRESIDENT ARISTIDE: First of all, I wasn't there, and I don't have many pieces of this information to comment, but the respect that I have for the truth, I will make some comments but I say it again, I wasn't there. I don't have yet any information so, I cannot go too far in my way to analyze the situation. I do believe because for the past years, each time drug dealers like Guy Philippe, people already convicted like Chamblain kill people, we heard exactly what I just heard. They blame the non-violent people and they blame the poor. When are poor, they are violated in their eyes, like the way they did. When you are already convicted, you are not violating human rights. So, I think or I suspect they are lying when they talk like that, accusing my followers.

Audio stream of the interview

[Winters 1]

My U.S. History teacher said to us that only Cubans are allowed to stay if they make it to the shore.  Everyone else gets sent home.

Not sure if that is accurate, but he is a smart guy.

He is right, if any refugees make it to shore they are allowed to stay, otherwise they are sent back.

[bn880 5]

Boy o boy, check this one out

Zimbabwe halts US aircraft with 64 Mercenaries on board with military equipment. The plane was siezed due to a false claim on cargo contents.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....4522062

Zimbabwe officials accuse US of trying to overthrow it's govt.

Remind you of anyhthing now?

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Boy o boy, check this one out

Zimbabwe halts US aircraft with 64 Mercenaries on board with military equipment.  The plane was siezed due to a false claim on cargo contents.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....4522062

Zimbabwe officials accuse US of trying to overthrow it's govt.  

Remind you of anyhthing now?  

How many times has this been used before?

Lost count...

Pathetic, 15 yrs after the end of the cold war and Washington and Langley are still involved in their pathetic little nation-building games

THEN they wonder why Al-Quaida and other people want to blow them up

Some of the so-called wanna-be patriots in the US need to pull their heads out of their arses and smash up the establishment and establish a new establishment, the new one with hopefully half a braincell between them

[/rant]

[bn880 5]

Heh

Well, what can I say, there is only a very slight chance they had nothing to do with the US. But I mean come on, they can tell the type of gizmos they have or the currency they carry, either can be traced to the US or not. Easy investigation. Will yield virtually 100% accuracy.

[Koolkid101 0]

If the U.S didn't go into Hati there would be people saying you heartless american bastards, then if we do go in we get called something else. So what are we supposed to do?

[bn880 5]

No no, there is a suspicion that the CIA (or whoever does their work lol) basically arranged for a nice revolt in Haiti, then they ripped Aristide out of there even when he was not yet in danger and would not logically have escaped yet. He would have waited until things got much more heated just like anyone else.