Sad day for swedes

[the_shadow 0]

today is the day when politicians will decide wich of the swedish military units will be cancelled..

right now they proclaim 50%

yesterday the high Commander said 5-7 army, 2 airforce and 1 navy/marine regiment can be cancelled

today we have 14 army units, 4 AF and 3 navy/marine regiments...

and according the latest news it will be what he said..

2500 officers and another 2500 civilian employees will be fired.. and the 2004-2006 cadet classes will be cancelld aswell.

more will follow during this afternoon/evening

[Longinius 1]

Just close it all down and move some of the resource over to the rescue services, police and hospitals. Keep enough to maintain a small military unit for international duty.

Our defense right now is a joke, and its becoming sader.

[the_shadow 0]

Just close it all down and move some of the resource over to the rescue services, police and hospitals. Keep enough to maintain a small military unit for international duty.

Our defense right now is a joke, and its becoming sader.

yeah, that´s what Svenska freds (Swedish peace organisation) said.. "cancell all and maintain a small force for international duty". THEN WHERE THE HECK SHOULD WE TRAIN THEM???

[aj_addons 0]

i know what you mean guys in britain it looks like there is going to be big cutbacks sometime soon aswell

[iNeo 0]

Stop the refugee immigration, kick out all criminal immigrants, and give the money saved there to the defence forces and the police. Many problems solved.

[GoOB 0]

Stop the refugee immigration, kick out all criminal immigrants, and give the money saved there to the defence forces and the police. Many problems solved.

Oh sure, the immigrants hold the solution to all our problems... Yes kick them out and stop helping people that need help, we might aswell kick all the criminal Swedes out. It's the same thing, they live here as much as "we" do.

As I see it there is no real soloution to this problem. I don't want the defence forces to dissolve and wither away into nothing, but at the moment that seems to be the way it has to go. Keep supporting airforce and instate volountary military service, and reservist duty. Hemvärnet vill prevail

[Longinius 1]

Quote[/b] ]yeah, that´s what Svenska freds (Swedish peace organisation) said.. "cancell all and maintain a small force for international duty". THEN WHERE THE HECK SHOULD WE TRAIN THEM???

And they are right. While I dont agree with their reasons for such a statement, I think its the only right way to go. Either we go all the way and establish a strong defense suitable for its task, or we dismantle it all together. A half arsed version does no good.

Either we decide that we want to be prepared for a future invasion of our land, and take the cost of that. Or we say "Screw the defense, lets use the resources elsewhere so its more efficient".

I am sure we could train and maintain an international force on its own basis. Its simply a matter of reorganising the current military design and tailor make it to fit a new mission, which would be focused on international missions.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

what does this mean for the compulsory military service?

[Longinius 1]

Quote[/b] ]Stop the refugee immigration, kick out all criminal immigrants, and give the money saved there to the defence forces and the police. Many problems solved.

The way immigration is handled is just one thing that needs changing. Changing it alone, and not doing anything else, wont help much at all. It is part of the problem, but not the only part of it. Not even the main part.

The problem is that we are losing many companies to foreign nations because of our own high taxes and high salaries. Then we are bleeding money from open wounds, and these wounds include immigration, foreign aid, the military and several half-arsed projects all over Sweden.

The best example I can give is deciding to place JAS planes at F 10, starting construction to house and support the new planes, closing F 10 but still finishing the construction for the new planes. Thats insane, and stupid.

Another fine example of excellent planning that cost us loads of cash is the tunnel through the Halland ridge. A fine debacle that surely could have been avoided.

[ran 0]

we went through all that during the professionalisation of our army (a lot of regular professionnal units have been disbanded in the lot) but it's the only way to go I think

[the_shadow 0]

well, noone knows... the desitions will be made att 3PM CET (in about 28 minutes)

well, i understand how you mean Longinius, either we scrap it all and come crying on our bare knees if it get´s hot

or we rebuild (reorganice?).

i think it will be neither, altleast not atm

but concider this, the international forces we send are voulonteers with background in many of the different units, this make it an allround capable force.. IF we scrap all and just keep a smoll international force we will loose most of that allround capability wich sweden is known for abroad...

it will eventually mean that sweden might be unliked in UN and abroad in our mission areas.. now THAT mean sweden wont have anywhere to send the troops and therfor they will probably be lost into thin air as the rest of the military... then we have absolutely nothing....

now, the world today is more unstable then it was before WW2 they say, if this is true the last thing we should do is to remove our military capabilities, just becouse we are in no danger to be invaded dosen´t mean there is no threat, small terrorist organisations working world wide are the biggest threats right now, but what is in 10-15 years?

[the_shadow 0]

i forgot to say that this is a 10 decision... it will decide what will happen during the next 10 years...

[EiZei 0]

The dream is becoming true!

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

2500? You gotta be kiddin. Here they are erasing several times this amount. It is a necessary step to take.

[iNeo 0]

2500? You gotta be kiddin. Here they are erasing several times this amount. It is a necessary step to take.

Well your population is only 10 times larger than our..

[iNeo 0]

Either we decide that we want to be prepared for a future invasion of our land, and take the cost of that. Or we say "Screw the defense, lets use the resources elsewhere so its more efficient".

I am sure we could train and maintain an international force on its own basis. Its simply a matter of reorganising the current military design and tailor make it to fit a new mission, which would be focused on international missions.

The armed forces should be used for more than it is today, then dismantling wouldn't be necessary and we'd get a lot more for the money. They should be put in against riots, bank robbers etc, and used in more rescue operations.

[iNeo 0]

Oh sure, the immigrants hold the solution to all our problems... Yes kick them out and stop helping people that need help, we might aswell kick all the criminal Swedes out. It's the same thing, they live here as much as "we" do.

Open your eyes, they ARE over-represented (maybe incorrect word) in crime stats, immigrant-dense Botkyrka (outside Stockholm) tops the list of number of rapes, in immigrant-dense Rosengĺrd (outside Malmö) police, fire fighters and ambulance personel is constantly assaulted, in immigrant-dense Rinkeby (outside Stockholm) the entrance to the police office was blown up by a bomb and when they leave their car for a task they need to have another patrol guard their car so that it isn't wrecked. The government denies all problems of their sweet heavenly dream of multi-culture. It's perfect, isn't it.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

http://www.co.jyu.fi/~mmrasane/image/karu_pohjola.gif

The dream is becoming true!

You mean

[red oct 2]

wonder if this means we will get the Visby on discount

[denoir 0]

Oh sure, the immigrants hold the solution to all our problems... Yes kick them out and stop helping people that need help, we might aswell kick all the criminal Swedes out. It's the same thing, they live here as much as "we" do.

Open your eyes, they ARE over-represented (maybe incorrect word) in crime stats, immigrant-dense Botkyrka (outside Stockholm) tops the list of number of rapes, in immigrant-dense Rosengĺrd (outside Malmö) police, fire fighters and ambulance personel is constantly assaulted, in immigrant-dense Rinkeby (outside Stockholm) the entrance to the police office was blown up by a bomb and when they leave their car for a task they need to have another patrol guard their car so that it isn't wrecked. The government denies all problems of their sweet heavenly dream of multi-culture. It's perfect, isn't it.

Is this thread about the Swedish military or about venting your xenophobic/racist thoughs  

For the non-Swedes reading his posts, I can assure you that Swedish people are in general not as narrow-minded and bigoted. If anything we should kick people like iNeo out that embarrass the country.

iNeo: Hĺll dina invandrarfientliga ĺsikter för dig själv. Folk som du ger Sverige ett dĺligt namn och gör att man fĺr skämmas för att man är svensk.  

[iNeo 0]

Sorry for OT,

let's get back on topic by posting some more funny pictures.

[miles teg 1]

That's good to hear that all Swedes aren't like that.  You guys are just going through what America went through I think (and is still going through).  Immigration is difficult and full of problems, but immigration and migration is nothing new and is simply part of human existence... the only difference is that today generally the migrants aren't armed invaders usually like the Mongols or the Turks in the past.

People against migration are generally afraid of losing their culture.  But in reality cultures are usually not wiped out during periods of migrations but rather evolve and merge with other cultures taking the best of each.  

If people are afraid of racial mixing, then there is a solution to that... HAVE MORE BABIES.  I tell that to white supremists here in America that if they are SOOoo afraid of Mexicans taking over America by outbreeding white folks, then they should simply start having more sex and making more babies.

That's a hell of a lot better then killing people.  

Where I live (Texas) is actually a good example of cultural melange.  

The heavily Mexican-American areas of South Texas have a VERY different culture then Mexico.   It's called "Tejano" culture and it blends in quite a bit of mainstream American culture.  But really racial tensions are fairly low where I live overall and aside from a few ignorant people here and there (that like to scapegoat other races to blame them for their own shortcomings) people generally judge each other on their abilities.  Really black people here in Texas probably have more problems with racism, but that has more to do with how black men are portrayed on TV as all being criminals.  

Even in Central and South American "telenovelas", the black person is generally portrayed as a crimanal, a poor person, or a "bad guy."

At any rate, immigration is simply people going to where the jobs are.  If the EU dream works, then the EU will do more to help out those countries from which all these immigrants come from so that they won't feel a need to immigrate to places like Sweden unless they simply just LIKE Swedish culture and Swedish people.  

A good example is how many American men dream of going to Sweden to meet all those tall gorgeous blonde Swedish women.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[GoOB 0]

Oh sure, the immigrants hold the solution to all our problems... Yes kick them out and stop helping people that need help, we might aswell kick all the criminal Swedes out. It's the same thing, they live here as much as "we" do.

Open your eyes, they ARE over-represented (maybe incorrect word) in crime stats, immigrant-dense Botkyrka (outside Stockholm) tops the list of number of rapes, in immigrant-dense Rosengĺrd (outside Malmö) police, fire fighters and ambulance personel is constantly assaulted, in immigrant-dense Rinkeby (outside Stockholm) the entrance to the police office was blown up by a bomb and when they leave their car for a task they need to have another patrol guard their car so that it isn't wrecked. The government denies all problems of their sweet heavenly dream of multi-culture. It's perfect, isn't it.

There might be problems, yes. But throwing out criminal immigrants and people with Swedish citizenship won't boost our budget. I would think rather the opposite, not to mention how terribly idiotic it is to throw people out of a country (noone can do that by the way, this isn't the middle-ages) based on their criminal record and where they come from.

I don't see immigrants causing trouble at all, teens will be teens and misguided adults will be misguided adults regardless of ethnical backround. I live in a suburb to Stockholm and I can tell you that most crimes here aren't related to immigrants at all. In the cases were there is a connection usually wannabe neo-nazis and racists have provoked the violence and criminal behaviour.

That said, I agree with "Svenska freds" it's time to look over the defence forces seriously and give the spending some thought.

@SpeedyDonkey. Really cumpolsory military service doesn't exist, today you can get out of it very easily. And you generally don't have to if you don't want to, some exceptions granted.

[denoir 0]

2500? You gotta be kiddin. Here they are erasing several times this amount. It is a necessary step to take.

These are not conscripts we're talking about, but officers. They're going to fire another 2,500 civilian employees as well.

This is bad, I never expected such a proposition to come from Syrén (our most recent supreme commander). While there is no threats against Sweden right now, I think this is very short-sighted. We did the same mistake before WW2 so when the Germans started running around in Europe we had a very small military with obsolete weapons. And this was because after WW1 they said that there would be no more threats...

As for switching to a professional military as oposed to the current conscription based system - it's not practical for Sweden. We're too small to have a purely professional military. We need conscriptiom in one form or another.

Of course, if in the future there will be a common EU defence organization, then perhaps it can be scrapped. But as far as we are on our own, we need at least a basic defence of our territorial integrity. With conscription, we have something like 60,000 conscripts active at all times and can mobilize up to 300,000 should things go bad. And we need that.

[the_shadow 0]

and now we will just train 8700 conscripts a year and scrap the local defence (Hemvärnet) if they decide to save 6 billion crowns (100 crowns = ~11 euros)

they actually got 4 sugestions, 1: is +3 billion (not likely)

2: is 0 (no change at all(note likly))

3: is -3 billion (small possibilty)

and 4: is -6 billion (likely)

the -6 billion means that 3700 (new number) officers will get fired along with 3600 civilian employees

and that we will loose just abaou ALL possibility to defend ourselfs. (swedes can read about it here

-6 billion suggestion

-3 billion

+3 billion

no change

more documents (in swedish)