Us presidential election 2004

[red oct 2]

....and? thats a whole part of life. you make mistakes and you learn from them. haven't you made mistakes that resulted in you doing something different? if not than shame on you. did you ever hurt yourself by putting your hand on a hot frying pan when you were little or maybe stick your finger into a electrical socket? it burns right? would you do it again? the whole part of learning is mainly through Trial and error the whole "Flip-floping" is really bull shit. it holds 0 ground. i'll agree that a good leader must make tough choices, but a good leader must also be quick to undo any wrongs he may have done in order to accomplish a goal. deciding not to do so, and you'll just be digging yourself deeper into a hole. you know, kind of like bush is doing

edit: and as for the Iraq thing, thats pretty much irrelevant. no WMD's were found, and the terror cells only starting to appear after the dictorship was overthrown, mean while Iran has be openly supporting terrorism and trying to build nuclear weapons of their own.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]....and? thats a whole part of life. you make mistakes and you learn from them. haven't you made mistakes that resulted in you doing something different? if not than shame on you. did you ever hurt yourself by putting your hand on a hot frying pan when you were little or maybe stick your finger into a electrical socket? it burns right? would you do it again? the whole part of learning is mainly through Trial and error the whole "Flip-floping" is really bull shit. it holds 0 ground. i'll agree that a good leader must make tough choices, but a good leader must also be quick to undo any wrongs he may have done in order to accomplish a goal. deciding not to do so, and you'll just be digging yourself deeper into a hole. you know, kind of like bush is doing

So, it will be like this (kerry):

1. not invade Iraq

2. invade Iraq

3. pull out of Iraq

4  invade Iraq

5. pull out of Iraq

6. repeat and rinse

[DB-ERAUPilot 0]

Quote[/b] ]who gives a damn if kerry "flip-flops" (whata stupid term btw. my advice to TBA, get hooked on phonix) i'd rather have somebody running this country who will see that something they did that may not been as good of a idea as previously seemed and makes a change rather than some retard who doesn't and keeps making the same moronic mistakes over and over because of it.

But, he keeps changing over the years.

Billybob...I respect you as a board member and as a person but that has got to be the DUMBEST thing I've ever seen posted on any board period...what person doesn't change ideas over the years...when we were kids we used to think girls had the "koodies", do you still think they do? I hope not..people change the way they think about alot of things it's called GETTING OLDER..not flip flopping..if your not a republican why the hell are you defending that "fuck-up of a president" only a true Bush hawk would defend this idiot with as much heart as you do..if your a republican then be proud to be one..even though your wrong..if your not then stop defending this prick...if you even noticed...Bush isn't too popularin American(the world for that matter) for a number of reasons(the one I hate him most for is that fact that because of him over 900 of our bravest for his own personal vendetta)...oh and yeah Bush hasn't changed his thinking one bit and look where it has gotten us...

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Billybob...I respect you as a board member and as a person but that has got to be the DUMBEST thing I've ever seen posted on any board period...what person doesn't change ideas over the years...when we were kids we used to think girls had the "koodies", do you still think they do? I hope not..people change the way they think about alot of things it's called GETTING OLDER..not flip flopping..if your not a republican why the hell are you defending that "fuck-up of a president" only a true Bush hawk would defend this idiot with as much heart as you do..if your a republican then be proud to be one..even though your wrong..if your not then stop defending this prick...if you even noticed...Bush isn't too popularin American(the world for that matter) for a number of reasons(the one I hate him most for is that fact that because of him over 900 of our bravest for his own personal vendetta)...oh and yeah Bush hasn't changed his thinking one bit and look where it has gotten us...

How old can Kerry get? I would of understand if he changed his position once but not a whole bunch of times. He is running for the president of the united states and he is going to make tough decisions and some of them can not be taken back.

[red oct 2]

Quote[/b] ]....and? thats a whole part of life. you make mistakes and you learn from them. haven't you made mistakes that resulted in you doing something different? if not than shame on you. did you ever hurt yourself by putting your hand on a hot frying pan when you were little or maybe stick your finger into a electrical socket? it burns right? would you do it again? the whole part of learning is mainly through Trial and error the whole "Flip-floping" is really bull shit. it holds 0 ground. i'll agree that a good leader must make tough choices, but a good leader must also be quick to undo any wrongs he may have done in order to accomplish a goal. deciding not to do so, and you'll just be digging yourself deeper into a hole. you know, kind of like bush is doing

So, it will be like this (kerry):

1. not invade Iraq

2. invade Iraq

3. pull out of Iraq

4 invade Iraq

5. pull out of Iraq

6. repeat and rinse

I think not.

most likely scenario:

1.Kerry would ask UN to make a arms inspection in Iraq

2.Kerry gives UN team as much time as they need to do their job

3.Kerry recieves word from UN inspectors that a few long ranged rockets were found along w/ a few small cache's of chemicle munitions which have been destroyed.

4.Kerry saves us over 900 lives of Coalition soliers as well as countless equipment, fuel, ammunition, and money that would have been waisted on removing some tired old man from power

5.Kerry focuses back to Afghanistan and contiues the war on terrorism

[red oct 2]

Quote[/b] ]Billybob...I respect you as a board member and as a person but that has got to be the DUMBEST thing I've ever seen posted on any board period...what person doesn't change ideas over the years...when we were kids we used to think girls had the "koodies", do you still think they do? I hope not..people change the way they think about alot of things it's called GETTING OLDER..not flip flopping..if your not a republican why the hell are you defending that "fuck-up of a president" only a true Bush hawk would defend this idiot with as much heart as you do..if your a republican then be proud to be one..even though your wrong..if your not then stop defending this prick...if you even noticed...Bush isn't too popularin American(the world for that matter) for a number of reasons(the one I hate him most for is that fact that because of him over 900 of our bravest for his own personal vendetta)...oh and yeah Bush hasn't changed his thinking one bit and look where it has gotten us...

How old can Kerry get? I would of understand if he changed if position once but not a whole bunch of times. He is running for the president of the united states and he is going to make tough decisions and some of them can not be taken back.

LOL! you'll just keep on looking for excuses no matter how crazy they are. to answer your question, your never to old to change your mind on issues. didn't you bother to read the posts above? we been practicly drawing you pictures and you seem to keep putting your hands over your ears not wanting to listen to us. since no matter what we say, your still going to find some ludicrous comeback or explaination. the only thing i could say is im just glad your not old enough to vote.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]LOL! you'll just keep on looking for excuses no matter how crazy they are. to answer your question, your never to old to change your mind on issues. didn't you bother to read the posts above? we been practicly drawing you pictures and you seem to keep putting your hands over your ears or simply just don't want to hear our case. since no matter what we say or if we explain it in a matter that a toddler could understand, your still going to find some ludicrous comeback or explaination. the only thing i could say is im just glad your not old enough to vote.

Who said I'm not old enough to vote...    

[red oct 2]

how old are than? are you out of high school?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]how old are than? are you out of high school?

19 and out of hs... Right now, I'm a sophomore at the university of maryland (junior in the spring).

[bn880 5]

Mock my words Billy; in 1 to 4 years (up to you) you can look back on these discussions and say "man, that was really closed minded of me, but I know better now".

See you when you get there...

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Mock my words Billy; in 1 to 4 years (up to you) you can look back on these discussions and say "man, that was really closed minded of me, but I know better now".

See you when you get there...

probably but let the good times roll...

[bn880 5]

By all means, Denoir would starve without your opposing debate. Every time you speak, you help Denoir, if you want to help Denoir, go right ahead.

[Bernadotte 0]

Every time you speak, you help Denoir, if you want to help Denoir, go right ahead.  

And don't forget that everytime Billybob2002 speaks he helps my post count.  

Hurry November 3rd!

[Akira 0]

Group To Monitor US Elections

Quote[/b] ]International team to monitor presidential election

Observers will be part of OSCE's human rights office

From David de Sola

CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A team of international observers will monitor the presidential election in November, according to the U.S. State Department.

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe was invited to monitor the election by the State Department. The observers will come from the OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.

It will be the first time such a team has been present for a U.S. presidential election.

"The U.S. is obliged to invite us, as all OSCE countries should," spokeswoman Urdur Gunnarsdottir said. "It's not legally binding, but it's a political commitment. They signed a document 10 years ago to ask OSCE to observe elections."

Thirteen Democratic members of the House of Representatives, raising the specter of possible civil rights violations that they said took place in Florida and elsewhere in the 2000 election, wrote to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in July, asking him to send observers.

After Annan rejected their request, saying the administration must make the application, the Democrats asked Secretary of State Colin Powell to do so.

The issue was hotly debated in the House, and Republicans got an amendment to a foreign aid bill that barred federal funds from being used for the United Nations to monitor U.S. elections, The Associated Press reported.

In a letter dated July 30 and released last week, Assistant Secretary of State Paul Kelly told the Democrats about the invitation to OSCE, without mentioning the U.N. issue.

"I am pleased that Secretary Powell is as committed as I am to a fair and democratic process," said Democratic Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas, who spearheaded the effort to get U.N. observers.

"The presence of monitors will assure Americans that America cares about their votes and it cares about its standing in the world," she said in a news release.

Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee of California agreed.

"This represents a step in the right direction toward ensuring that this year's elections are fair and transparent," she said.

"I am pleased that the State Department responded by acting on this need for international monitors. We sincerely hope that the presence of the monitors will make certain that every person's voice is heard, every person's vote is counted."

OSCE, the world's largest regional security organization, will send a preliminary mission to Washington in September to assess the size, scope, logistics and cost of the mission, Gunnarsdottir said.

The organization, which counts among its missions conflict prevention and postconflict rehabilitation, will then determine how many observers are required and where in the United States they will be sent.

"OSCE-participating [nations] agreed in 1990 to observe elections in one another's countries. The OSCE routinely monitors elections within its 55-state membership, including Europe, Eurasia, Canada and the United States," a State Department spokesman said.

The spokesman said the United States does not have any details on the size and composition of the observers or what countries will provide them.

OSCE, based in Vienna, Austria, has sent more than 10,000 personnel to monitor more than 150 elections and referenda in more than 30 countries during the past decade, Gunnarsdottir said.

In November 2002, OSCE sent 10 observers on a weeklong mission to monitor the U.S. midterm elections. OSCE also sent observers to monitor the California gubernatorial recall election last year.

More recently, OSCE monitored the elections in Northern Ireland in November and in Spain in March.

[billybob2002 0]

Did somebody misspeak at the DNC....

http://www.pardonmyenglish.com/media/kerry_terror_ops.mp3

He must be going crazy....

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/09/kerry.iraq/index.html

Quote[/b] ]GRAND CANYON NATIONAL PARK, Arizona (CNN) -- Democratic presidential nomiee John Kerry said Monday he would not have changed his vote to authorize the war against Iraq, but said he would have handled things "very differently" from President Bush.

Bush's campaign has challenged Kerry to give a yes-or-no answer about whether he stood by the October 2002 vote which gave Bush authority to use military force against Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

The question of going to war in Iraq has become a major issue on the campaign trail, especially in light of the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been found there.

Intelligence reports that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction was a major rationale for going to war.

The U.S. senator from Massachusetts said the congressional resolution gave Bush "the right authority for the president to have."

But he told reporters on a campaign swing through Arizona, "I would have done this very differently from the way President Bush has." He challenged Bush to answer four questions.

"My question to President Bush is why did he rush to war without a plan to win the peace?" Kerry asked. "Why did he rush to war on faulty intelligence and not do the hard work necessary to give America the truth?

"Why did he mislead America about how he would go to war? Why has he not brought other countries to the table in order to support American troops in the way that we deserve it and relieve a pressure from the American people?

"There are four, not hypothetical questions like the president's, but real questions that matter to Americans," Kerry said. "And I hope you'll get the answers to those questions because the American people deserve them."

Bush's campaign has hammered Kerry over his vote to authorize military action and his vote a year later against $87 billion in funding for the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Kerry has said he voted against that measure because it would have financed the war with borrowed money. He voted for a defeated alternative that would have rolled back some of Bush's tax cuts to pay for the conflict.

The president told supporters Monday in Virginia that he still would have gone to war based on the evidence at hand at the time, and he challenged Kerry to say whether he would have cast the same vote.

More than 900 American troops have been killed in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 that deposed Saddam. No WMD arsenal has been found, although a few aging gas shells have been located, and U.S. inspectors have said Iraq tried to conceal some weapons-related research from U.N. weapons inspectors.

Bush said Iraq had the ability to build weapons of mass destruction and had been deceiving weapons inspectors, who reported no sign of banned weapons in Iraq in the weeks before the invasion.

"Everybody thought they would be there. We haven't found them yet," Bush said. "But he did have the capability of making weapons. Knowing what I know today, I would have made the same decision."

Kerry has said that if elected, he would work to recruit more U.S. allies to assist in stabilizing Iraq, where nearly 140,000 U.S. troops are still fighting to provide security for the country's interim government.

Kerry said his goal would be to reduce the number of American troops in Iraq within six months of taking office, but he said he would put more troops into the country "if the commanders ask for it."

"Obviously, we have to see how events unfold," he said. "The measurement has to be, as I've said all along, the stability of Iraq, the ability to have the elections, and the training and transformation of the Iraqi security force itself."

But he said if he could persuade other countries to contribute troops, reducing the U.S. contingent would be an "appropriate" goal.

geeze, nice to attack on voting for war. Had Kerry not voted for war, would GOP ever not criticized Kerry?

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Did somebody misspeak at the DNC....

http://www.pardonmyenglish.com/media/kerry_terror_ops.mp3

He must be going crazy....

Besides, doubling Special Forces would require less difficult standards and more speedy training.

Still a great quote, and delivered with such a dignified tone . "We will DOUBLE Special Forces to conduct terrorist operations..."    

[bn880 5]

LMAO! Well, you have to give it to Kerry, he's sometiems as honest as Bush.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]LMAO! Well, you have to give it to Kerry, he's sometiems as honest as Bush.

And I'm sure many people will now feel that they have misunderestimated Kerry .

[desantnik 0]

Just here to say....

Kerry for President

[Schoeler 0]

Mock my words Billy; in 1 to 4 years (up to you) you can look back on these discussions and say "man, that was really closed minded of me, but I know better now".  

See you when you get there...  

I think you meant "mark my words", but Amen Brother!

Nothing a little education can't fix. I think now about my mindset four years ago compared to what it is today and I know I'm not even the same person. The critical thinking skills developed at University have been a blessing and make me support education for the masses all the more.

Maybe John Kerry will deliver this nation from ignorance.

[denoir 0]

Did somebody misspeak at the DNC....

http://www.pardonmyenglish.com/media/kerry_terror_ops.mp3

He must be going crazy....

Yeah, I noticed that in the speech. At least he corrected himself directly. Bush on the other hand promised to never stop thinking about new ways of harming America.. and continued with the speech, without noticing it.

It was a nice gaffe, most certainly in the top ten.

My top 10 list:

Quote[/b] ]

1. You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.'' —George W. Bush, Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001

2. "Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" —Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

3. "They misunderestimated me." —Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

4. "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

5. "I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe — I believe what I believe is right." —Rome, July 22, 2001

6. "...I don't need to be subliminabable.." Orlando, FL, Sept. 12

7. "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

—Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

8. "I'm the master of low expectations."—Aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003

9. "They have miscalculated me as a leader."—Ibid.

10. "Keep good relations with the Grecians."—Quoted in the Economist, June 12, 1999

Anyway, take the

The George W. Bush Loyalty Quiz

and the

The John Kerry Loyalty Quiz

I got a 0 (Bush) and a 7 (Kerry).

[Bernadotte 0]

And from Donald Rumsfeld:

Quote[/b] ]Reports that say something hasn't happened are interesting to me, because as we know, there are known unknowns; there things we know we know.  We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know.

It just won't be the same without them.  

[Akira 0]

Anyway, take the

The George W. Bush Loyalty Quiz

and the

The John Kerry Loyalty Quiz

I got a 0 (Bush) and a 7 (Kerry).

Bush:

Quote[/b] ]Your score is 0 on a scale of 1 to 10. You hate Bush with a writhing passion. You think he is an idiot, a liar, and a warmonger who has been a miserable failure as president. Nothing would give you greater pleasure than seeing him run out of the White House, except maybe seeing him dragged away in handcuffs.

Kerry:

Quote[/b] ]Your score is 8 on a scale of 1 to 10. John Kerry is your man. He may not be perfect in your eyes, but next to the smirking idiot who occupies the White House right now, he looks like Abraham Lincoln.

[billybob2002 0]

No big surprises....

Bush:

Quote[/b] ]

Your score is 9 on a scale of 1 to 10. You are a True Believer in President Bush. Your loyalty and devotion to him is matched only by your desire to see his liberal detractors locked away and declared enemy combatants. If all Americans thought as you did, and were it constitutionally viable, George W. Bush would be president for life.

For life...hell no...but for four more years

Kerry:

Quote[/b] ]Your score is 2 on a scale of 1 to 10. You believe John Kerry is unfit to be president. While your disapproval stops short of outright hatred, there is nothing he could do or say that could sway your fundamental belief that he is a dangerous, terrorist-coddling, flip-flopping menace who must be stopped.

At least he got two points....