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ralphwiggum

Us presidential election 2004

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Quote[/b] ]It simply means that they couldn't focus their attention on the purpose of the meeting.
Quote[/b] ]we just realized nobody could think

He did not stay he could not think about about the meeting but he could not think....

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Aside from the fact that I think he meant no one at the table could discuss whatever had been on their agenda given what was happening ,what should Kerry have done differently? Jumped in his car and headed for NORAD? ran round the building in a panic telling people there all gonna die? what, what should or could he have done that would have had any effect on anything.

Bush .Snr wouldnt have staring into space, when that aid told him "americas under attack", he sat there and didnt even bother to find out what that meant.

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Quote[/b] ]Perhaps English is not your first language, Billybob2002, but saying that a group of people sitting down for a meeting could not think is not the same as freezing up in terror.

CNN:

Quote[/b] ] we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon.

Alot of time has past....

Only an Idiot would make a detailed account of what transpired during 40 minutes out of a 1-sentence description.

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Quote[/b] ]what should Kerry have done differently?  Jumped in his car and headed for NORAD? ran round the building in a panic telling people there all gonna die? what, what should or could he have done that would have had any effect on anything.  

Bush .Snr wouldnt have staring into space, when that aid told him "americas under attack", he sat there and didnt even bother to find out what that meant.

I just trying to prove a point that it is easy for people to bash Bush because he froze, and to call him a dumbass and should not be command in chief because of this. However, the guy who is running against the president admitted that he "could not think" gets a free pass but, if he was president on 9/11, he would of acted differently.

Edit: About the 9/11 commission: they found out that when the jets were scrambled, the jets did not know were to go or what targets to intercept. Everybody was confused that day....

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Aside from the fact that I think he meant no one at the table could discuss whatever had been on their agenda given what was happening ,what should Kerry have done differently?  Jumped in his car and headed for NORAD? ran round the building in a panic telling people there all gonna die? what, what should or could he have done that would have had any effect on anything.  

Bush .Snr wouldnt have staring into space, when that aid told him "americas under attack", he sat there and didnt even bother to find out what that meant.

Exactly. That's the point. He didn't even bother to find a TV set to see what it was all about. I don't know if he was scared or not, but he certainly did not do what was expected of him. He didn't do anything. And this is a guy who with pride says "I'm a war-time president".

And about 50% of the American population think indeed that he is a great war-time leader.

But what has he done? Has he actually accomplished anything? Waving flags and speaking of patriotism is easy. What successful actions has he taken?

Well, on 11/9 we could see that he was more or less paralyzed and basically no action was taken to prevent an ongoing attack. It may have not been all Bush's fault - but he certainly did not take any constructive initiatives.

Mission: Failed

Then we have Afghanistan. Primary target Osama bin Laden and the Al Qaeda organization. Result: Osama still alive and kicking. AQ has grown from a minor resourceful terrorist organization to a huge international movement. Today you have AQ cells everywhere in the world, comitting terrorist attacks on a weekly basis. Afghanistan itself was left in a complete mess, with local war lords running the country. While it may have been difficult to imagine, the Afghans are worse of than under the Taliban.

Mission: Failed

And we can't forget Iraq either. No WMD. No terrorist center (until after the invasion). Worsened the US-Arab relationships. The country is in complete chaos etc etc

Mission: Failed

So I'm really wondering from what planet the people, that say that Bush is good for national security, are.

In other news:

Poor US jobs figures hit markets [bBC]

Quote[/b] ]

Poor US jobs figures hit markets

The US jobs market appears weaker than originally thought

US employers added just 32,000 workers to their staff numbers last month, as far weaker employment figures than expected were revealed on Friday.

The addition to the "non-farms payroll" was the lowest this year, and smaller than the most gloomy estimate.

Markets around the world dropped on the news, while the dollar lost ground against the euro and the pound

...

eurusd2.jpg

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There is one big difference between Kerry and Bush that day.

Bush was the president, he had a duty to act and respond, to get the ball rolling. His nation was on the line.

Kerry wasnt president, and most likely DIDNT have a duty to react until he got word from his boss, his president, to do so.

Bush should have known what to do, and acted. Kerry not knowing what to do is not a big deal, I dont think many in his position would know.

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Quote[/b] ]what should Kerry have done differently? Jumped in his car and headed for NORAD? ran round the building in a panic telling people there all gonna die? what, what should or could he have done that would have had any effect on anything.

Bush .Snr wouldnt have staring into space, when that aid told him "americas under attack", he sat there and didnt even bother to find out what that meant.

I just trying to prove a point that it is easy for people to bash Bush because he froze, and to call him a dumbass and should not be command in chief because of this. However, the guy who is running against the president admitted that he "could not think" gets a free pass but, if he was president on 9/11, he would of acted differently.

Edit: About the 9/11 commission: they found out that when the jets were scrambled, the jets did not know were to go or what targets to intercept. Everybody was confused that day....

And we are trying to get through to you, that Kerry had nothing he had to do nor was he required to have done anything. Yes. He couldnt' focus on the meeting. Big freaking deal.

Bush couldn't focus on HIS DUTIES AS COMMANDER IN CHIEF. How is that so hard to comprehend? It is Bush's job and duty to react and start taking action. That is what he wasn't elected for!

Kerry=Senator, No Authority

Bush=President, Responsible for Fast Reaction and Safety of Country

Understand NOW???

Your attempt to say Kerry "froze" is ridiculous. This country did not depend nor expect action from Kerry on that day. One would expect the PRESIDENT to start reacting when he is told that the country is under attack, and NOT stare at some kids book for 15 minutes.

So get off this Kerry forze crap. It holds no water and is beneath you.

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Quote[/b] ]Your attempt to say Kerry "froze" is ridiculous. This country did not depend nor expect action from Kerry on that day. One would expect the PRESIDENT to start reacting when he is told that the country is under attack, and NOT stare at some kids book for 15 minutes.

So get off this Kerry forze crap. It holds no water and is beneath you.

Somebody is mad.... He admitted that he could not "think" until after the Pentagon attack and he expects you to believe that will not do again if he becomes president.

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Hi all

The key Points

On 9/11 George Bush Jnr. was the man on watch.

No if buts or maybes he was the Commander in Chief on September 11th nobody else.

It was his duty to order the aircraft into the air to the nations defense.

He was trained and expected to get Nuclear Football to a new and safe location away from his known itinerary and make the decision for America's defense in 10 minutes. No Matter what form the attack took; the minute Andrew Card walks up to Bush while he is listening to a Goat Story with 16 second graders in Sandra Kay Daniels’s class at Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. Card whispers in his ear "A second plane has hit the World Trade Center. America is under attack." the starting pistol has been shot it is a time for executive decisions.

He must assess if the attack is a prelude to a nuclear strike he must be getting up to the second intel on which to make command decisions.

When it came to the crunch he failed he 'combat froze' it is there on record and on Film he froze in abject terror when America needed a strong leader and Commander in Chief he was not there. He fell into the classic rabbit in the snakes glare freeze his only activities are displacement activities. No Action, no command decision no gathering of intel. Nothing. Naught. Nada.

George Bush Jnr. can not say oh well Clinton should of done this and Clinton should have done that Clinton was not the Commander in Chief on 9/11 George Bush Jnr. was. George Bush Jnr. can not say oh well John F. Kerry should have should of done this and John F. Kerry should have done that John F. Kerry was not the Commander in Chief on 9/11 George Bush Jnr. was. George Bush Jnr can not say oh well the Michael Moore should of done this and Michael Moore should have done that Michael Moore was not Commander in Chief on 9/11 George Bush Jnr. was.

George Bush Jnr. is no good in an emergency he is not a leader he has to be told what to do. He sits there reading a book about goats as America is under attack.

He is so frozen with terror an aid has to come and tell him to get off his butt, while the time limit he is trained expected to to act under has been quietly slipping away.

It is his job to react to an attack on US soil but he does not do it.

Quote[/b] ]9:01 a.m.: Bush later makes the following statement. "And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I used to fly myself, and I said, 'There's one terrible pilot.' And I said, 'It must have been a horrible accident.' But I was whisked off from there -- I didn't have much time to think about it." Bush could not have possibly seen the first plane (American Airlines Flight 11) hit the WTC, because the only video showing this was not shown on television till later in the day. So how could he have possibly seen and said this?

9:05 a.m.: Andrew Card walks up to Bush while he is listening to a Goat Story with 16 second graders in Sandra Kay Daniels’s class at Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. Card whispers in his ear "A second plane has hit the World Trade Center. America is under attack." Bush (commander-and-chief?) keeps listening to this Goat Story

9:23 a.m.: Bush talks privately with Cheney, his National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller and Governor George Pataki of New York. Why does Bush wait from 9:05 (when Andrew Card tells him of United Airlines Flight 175 hitting the WTC) till 9:23 to finally call? He still does not give the authority to the fighters to shoot down any hostile airliners. What is he waiting for?

83) 9:30 a m.: Bush, speaking to the nation from Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida, says the country has suffered an "apparent terrorist attack" and "a national tragedy." He would chase down, "those folks who committed this act." Bush also said, "Terrorism against our nation will not stand." It was an echo of "This will not stand," the words his father, George H. W. Bush, had used a few days after Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990-in Bush's opinion, one of his father's finest moments.

http://www.911timeline.net/

Quote[/b] ]

Now the only airliner left in the sky with its IFF transponder signal off which has just made a 180 degree turn over southern Ohio / northeastern Kentucky and has been heading directly back to Washington D.C. and The Pentagon since 8:59 a.m. -- is American Airlines Flight 77. Why didn’t these two F-15’s that were 71 miles from NYC and the WTC, immediately redirect to intercept the only dangerous airliner in the sky, American Airlines Flight 77?

These two F-15’s had 34 minutes to reach Washington D.C. before American Airlines Flight 77 hits the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. The mission of these two F-15’s from the 102nd Fighter Wing of the Otis Air National Guard Base is to protect the skies from Washington D.C. to the north. The F-15 has a top speed of 1875+ MPH, so they could have closed the 300 or so miles from their current position to Washington D.C. in just about 10 minutes. At top speed they could have been at the Pentagon 24 minutes before American Airlines Flight 77 hits it.

9:37 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 77 is lost from radar screens and impacts the western side of the Pentagon.

In all those 34 minutes not once did the commander in chief issue an order for aircraft to defend the nations capitol and the central command of the nations defense.

A Commander in Chief must be able to act. One who freezes and cannot think for himself or issue any orders in the nations defense is not a Commander and is danger to the nation.

It is the president who authorizes the nations defense no one else is legally entitled too.

On 9/11 as the aircraft flew steadily on to the Pentagon no orders came this left a visible dangerous power vacuum.

Afterwards indications are that people lower down the chain of command started making unauthorized and uncoordinated orders in defense of the nation out of shear frustration that there were no orders coming from the top.

What we are talking about is at least as dangerous as no orders coming from the commander in chief and in any case is a result of the power vacuum from the George Bush Jnr. suffering 'combat freeze'.

Suppose the person who usurped the chain of command had interpreted 9/11 as a hostile act by say Russia and attacked a Russian nuclear sub.

George Bush Jnr. is just not up to the job of Commander in Chief. And in this time danger for every family in the USA the nation needs a resolute leader proven under fire to be able to act in an emergency

This is the issue.

The issue is having a Commander in Chief who is proven to be able act in the Nations Defense in an emergency.

At a time of chrisis there is no second place.

When the test Came George Bush Jnr. failed; he could not act.

When the test Came John F. Kerry's military record has proven he will act.

American families need a Leader who will act in the Nation's Defense America will elect John F. Kerry in November.

Kind Regards Walker

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Quote[/b] ]Your attempt to say Kerry "froze" is ridiculous. This country did not depend nor expect action from Kerry on that day. One would expect the PRESIDENT to start reacting when he is told that the country is under attack, and NOT stare at some kids book for 15 minutes.

So get off this Kerry forze crap. It holds no water and is beneath you.

Somebody is mad.... He admitted that he could not "think" until after the Pentagon attack and he expects you to believe that will not do again if he becomes president.

Did he "freeze" in Vietnam? Did Bush freeze in Vietnam?

'nuff said.

Kerry has a history of dealing with crisis and action. Bush has no record at all.

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Quote[/b] ]Did he "freeze" in Vietnam? Did Bush freeze in Vietnam?

'nuff said.

Kerry has a history of dealing with crisis and action. Bush has no record at all.

Had too much time calling himself a war criminal....

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did he ever say he committed one?

guess that proves a point. kerry went to war, Bush didn't. wink_o.gif

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Bush is an idiot surrounded by yes-men, I used to think Colin Powell was a great man with fortitude till I relized when it mattered he won't stand up for what is right either mad_o.gif I don't see how in the world Bush's cabinet hasn't spoken out at all about so many lies and short comings..I guess to some its more important to stay loyal to your political party than the AMERICAN PEOPLE. Anyone who watches that vid and who doesn't get mad should have their citizen stripped and deported to fallujah with a bullseye strapped to their ass. Republican don't relize when this idiot was reading(and even doing a bad job at that) a childrens book to kids thousands of innocent people(republicans, democrats, independants..ALL AMERICANS) were being slain. HE JUST SAT THERE mad_o.gif people on this board try to explain that away by saying oh Kerry froze..so the fuck what...Kerry wasn't president on that day alot of us froze but we look to our president to show leadership and push forward not read a book to kids just because your afraid you might scare some kids. I wish people would use their COMMON SENSE and not their political party BS to see what happened..he just sat there sad_o.gif

on a side note...Alan "uncle thomas" Keyes has chosen to run against Barak Obama for the senate seat of Illinois. Keyes has lost TWICE to win the republican parties nomination for president I guess he wants to open up his losing score in the senate..he hasn't relized his own party doesn't even want him...he's such an embarrasment...

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Quote[/b] ]on a side note...Alan "uncle thomas" Keyes has chosen to run against Barak Obama for the senate seat of Illinois.  Keyes has lost TWICE to win the republican parties nomination for president I guess he wants to open up his losing score in the senate..he hasn't relized his own party doesn't even want him...he's such an embarrasment...

He's such an embarrasment then why did the GOP select him. It is "uncle tom" you foul mouth person...

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He's such an embarrasment then why did the GOP select him.

Your kidding right... crazy_o.gif you do realize he ran TWICE for your parties nomination for president and barely even got out of single digits...and I know its uncle tom..thomas just sounds more "sellout-ish"

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Quote[/b] ]Your kidding right... crazy_o.gif

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoda....ination

Quote[/b] ]

Report: Keyes will accept GOP nomination

Associated Press

08/05/2004

CHICAGO (AP) -- Former presidential hopeful and talk-show host Alan Keyes has agreed to become Illinois Republicans' U.S. Senate candidate, according to published reports.

Keyes planned to announce his decision to accept the GOP nomination at a public launch on Sunday, the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago Sun-Times reported in Friday's editions, citing unnamed Republican sources.

"He (Keyes) indicated he wanted to come back on his own terms, bring some of his supporters with him and didn't want to have to walk out the door (Wednesday night) bombarded with questions about everything," a member of the Illinois Republican State Central Committee said, according to the Tribune. "He just wanted a few days to organize things."

Bill Pascoe, a political adviser and Keyes friend, said Thursday he could not confirm that Keyes had accepted the nomination.

"He thinks he owes it to them to take the time to deliberate," Pascoe said.

The committee asked Keyes to make the run late Wednesday after spending weeks searching for a replacement for primary winner Jack Ryan. If he accepts, Keyes will face Democratic powerhouse Barack Obama in the race for the seat of retiring U.S. Sen. Peter Fitzgerald, a Republican.

Keyes asked for time to contact national party leaders and think about the themes of his campaign, said committee member Kirk Dillard of Hinsdale.

Keyes, a two-time presidential hopeful who also ran two failed U.S. Senate campaigns from his home state of Maryland, is solidly on the right in his views. He opposes abortion and gay rights, wants to replace the income tax with a national sales tax and calls affirmative action a "government patronage program."

With two black candidates, both Harvard-educated polished debaters, the race would also draw national attention. It would be the first U.S. Senate election with two black candidates representing the major parties and almost assure Illinois would produce only the fifth black U.S. senator in history.

Keyes will have to establish residency in Illinois by Election Day, according to federal law.

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Dude you post too many articles...what is your point...ohhhh he's lost FOUR times...ok...and your point... crazy_o.gif

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Quote[/b] ]Dude you post too many articles...what is your point...ohhhh he's lost FOUR times...ok...and your point...

Your post:

Quote[/b] ]he hasn't relized his own party doesn't even want him...he's such an embarrasment...

I guess his party does want him...

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well, if they wanted him he would've been a presidental nominee out of the two times he's ran instead they just place him on the back burner until they need someone to lose...oh yeah and he's gonna lose even a Bush hawk like you can admit that Obama is sure to be a canidate for president one day

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Quote[/b] ]well, if they wanted him he would've been a presidental nominee out of the two times he's ran instead they just place him on the back burner until they need someone to lose...oh yeah and he's gonna lose even a Bush hawk like you can admit that Obama is sure to be a canidate for president one day

Maybe a candidate...I'm not a bush hawk...

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Quote[/b] ]well, if they wanted him he would've been a presidental nominee out of the two times he's ran instead they just place him on the back burner until they need someone to lose...oh yeah and he's gonna lose even a Bush hawk like you can admit that Obama is sure to be a canidate for president one day

Maybe a candidate...I'm not a bush hawk...

umm yeah u are...you follow his BS blindly without question..I bet if he walked outside and said the sky was purple u'd be on the boards arguing it was true...LOL its cool though vote for who you want just don't do it because he belongs to your chosen party that is MINDLESS and takes no effort especially when it's someone as unqualified as bush

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I found something almost as funny as George Bush's Hotmail account, George Bush's resume:

Quote[/b] ]RESUME: George W. Bush

The White House

Washington, D.C

USA

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE

COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a below average. I was a

cheerleader.

LAW ENFORCEMENT: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine in

1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled

guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended

for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and

is not available.

MILITARY: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went

AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any

questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air

National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in

Vietnam.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

I produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.

I ran for US Congress and lost.

I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas in

1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil

in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold

all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart

deal that took land using taxpayer money.

Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.

With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in

the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was

elected Governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR:

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil

companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the

Union.

During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most

smog-ridden city in America.

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune

of billions in borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any Governor

in American history.

With the help of my brother, the Governor of Florida, and

my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became

President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I am the first President in US history to enter office

with criminal record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost

of over one billion dollars per week.

I am the first president in US history to order an

unprovoked, preemptive attack and the military occupation

of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the

United Nations, the majority of US citizens, and the world

community.

I spent the US surplus and effectively bankrupted the US

Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in

US history.

I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget

spending increases, more than any President in US history.

I am the first President in US history to have all 50

states of the Union simultaneously go technically bankrupt.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies

filed in any 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any

one year period.

After taking-off the entire month of August, I presided

over the worst security failure in U.S.history.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker

Buster," a WMD.

In my State Of The Union Address, I lied about our reasons

for attacking Iraq, and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a

US president.

I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any

President in US history.

In my first year in office over 2-million Americans lost

their jobs and that trend continues every month. As of

February 2004 over 3-million Americans lost their jobs

and 300,000 are about to have their unemployment expire.

I cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans

than any President in US history.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a

12-month period.

I set the record for least amount of press conferences

than any president since the advent of television.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in US history

and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil

industry was revealed.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and

support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and

their families -- in war time.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide

to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million

people) shattering the record for protest against any

person in the history of mankind.

I've broken more international treaties than any president

in US history.

I signed more laws and executive orders amending the

Constitution than any President in US history.

I removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans

than any other President in US history.

In a little over two years I created the most divided

country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has

ever been since the Civil War.

I removed more checks and balances, and have the least

amount of Congressional oversight, than any Presidential

administration in US history.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest

of any administration in US history. My "poorest

millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker

named after her.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest

bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

I am the first president in US history to have the United

Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the US from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of

war ("detainees") and thereby have refused to abide by

the Geneva Convention.

I am the first president in history to refuse United

Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US election).

I am the first President in US history to have the United

Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

I am the all-time US and world record-holder for receiving

the most corporate campaign donations.

I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud

of any market in any country in the history of the world.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my

best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest

corporate bankruptcy fraud in US history. My political

party used the Enron private jets and corporate attorneys

to assure my success with the US Supreme Court during my

election decision. I have protected my friends at Enron

and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More

time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky

affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest

corporate rip-offs in history.

I garnered the most sympathy for the US after the World

Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the

US the most hated country in the world, the largest

failure of diplomacy in world history.

I am first president in history to have a majority of

Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat

to world peace and security.

I am the first US president in history to have the people of

South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate

neighbor, North Korea.

I changed the US policy to allow convicted criminals to be

awarded government contracts.

I set all-time record for number of administration

appointees who violated US law by not selling huge

investments in corporations bidding for government

contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration

positions than any President in US history.

I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama

Bin Laden and to justice.

I failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder

the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol

building. After 18 months, I have no leads and zero

suspects.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

All records of my tenure as Governor of Texas are now in

my father's library, sealed, and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading

and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and

unavailable for public view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my

Vice-president, attended regarding public energy policy

are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

For personal references, please speak to my Daddy or Uncle

James Baker. (They can be reached at their offices of the

Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)

Please consider my experience when voting in 2004

GEORGE W. BUSH

The White House

Washington, D.C

USA

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whats funny is that in spite of that "impressive" resume some people will still vote for the moron  biggrin_o.gif

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