The "community"

[dm 9]

The ramblings of a “seasoned†addon maker:

Over the last, well I suppose nearly 3 years now, we [bAS] have experienced this (read on to understand) on many an occasion (practically every addon release), its not that we want replies that are all goodness and light and ass kissing, but there is a distinct lack of something, respect or just understanding whatever you decide it is, in this community. And it runs true for all addon makers, whether it’s a large team like FDF or BAS or RHS, or an individual like Kegetys or Marfy.

From my experiences it seems this community is lacking these basic things:

1) Basic respect for the skill and talent of the addon makers. Anyone who's even managed to get a model ingame, let alone one of the quality of say the CSLA Tatra or our MH-60, or any of the new FDF models will appreciate just how hard it is to do. I think that not enough of the community has tried this, and therefore do not appreciate the lengths we [the addon makers] go to, to produce the addons.

2) Basic respect for the research that has gone into the addons. I don't know about anyone else, but I should imagine most addon makers put the same amount of research into your addons as we [bAS] do. However, we all know what happens when you release an addon, the armchair specialists come out in force, and all you hear (see) is: "this isn’t right", "that’s not like that in real life", "they should have this weapon", "that patch is the wrong shade of black" etc. Understandable with issues such as sounds as it is incredibly hard to make them sound perfect, but as for the look and feel of the addons, a lot of work goes into making them as "perfect" as they can be.

3) Understanding of the game engine. Not knowing what the limits are, and where to draw the line with suggesting xxx feature and yyy function. Things like multi-gunners on vehicles… c’mon guys… If it was possible, we’d have done it already! Use some common sense on these things.

4) Respect for the feelings, real world commitments and time constraints on the addon makers. We’re all human too! A lot of us have wives, girlfriends, jobs, school/college/uni to go to, as well as other things that we want to work on. Let’s face it, we could spend forever working on one addon to make it ultra perfect, with all the real world capabilities and functions. But then you’d only ever get 1 addon… Or, we could carry on doing as we do now, draw the line on an addon where we deem it to be “complete†and move on to the next one. That way you not only get more addons, but much much more variation too.

As many other addon makers, myself included, who have experience with other modding communities have gone to realise that the OFP “communityâ€, as a whole, is one of the most spoilt communities. And it saddens me to realise that people have left the community because of other peoples petty and selfish behaviour (Martin for instance) or because some people have some inbuilt inability to give credit/ask permission where it’s needed (like Marfy’s Hummers)

At this “late†stage in the games “life†we need to weed out all the hate, all the anger and envy, and build the game and its community into something new, something fresh and friendly. Why not make this the first truly FRIENDLY internet community, where all the posts are structured and thought about, and people can get along with one another. Surely having a reputation as “the game with the friendliest community in town†will boost this “old†games life, and inject some new life into the servers. There sure as hell is enough content to keep people playing for years to come.

What does it take to put a little thought into what you post? You wouldn’t treat your friends or your parents like that, so why treat others like it?

As always, live by the ideal: Treat others how you would like to be treated yourself.

Rant over, feel free to post your thoughts on this, PLEASE keep it civil I want a good discussion, not a flame war

[Postduifje 0]

Couldn't agree with you more, except I don't think it's the entire community that's spoiled. There are just always a few people who constantly complain about everything that's been released. Even though I have non experience whatsoever in making addons, I can imagine the time and effort it consumes and that's always something to bear in mind. For what it's worth, the work of addonmakers has been appreciated, enjoyed and loved a lot from my side, as goes for many others who've shown nothing but the uttmost respect

[tankieboy 0]

I say firstly get some sleep before you post, grow up, be the bigger man and rise above it.

Oh and if you walk around in a huff all day because some 12 year old slagged off your addon for a computer game that you live within then I also say turn off the computer go to the pub talk to females and get a life.

Its a game. Get over it.

[GoOB 0]

Many points here are very valid indeed, and a very needed post as you see alot of whining directed towards addonmakers. I might not be the perfect person to talk about these things since I have seen myself acting like a slight arse towards some addonmakers in terms of asking for another thing when one thing has just been released. But I want to make it clear that I do that out of interest for the addonmakers work, I adore most of the addonmakers for their persistance and excellent, excellent work. But defending many of the people "wanting more" I have to say that addons spark a will to do things, it might not be a mission it might just be a few hours of mindless fun playing around in the editor. And whilst playing with the units you get ideas.

Like when the Kiowa warriors were released, how much didn't everyone want the 60 series of BAS birds to be out right away? So that you could scout ahead for the oncoming assault force wich are holding off just around the corner waiting for notice on wheter the LZ is hot or clear. Personally I get stuff like this all the time:

"Man it would be awesome if I could have <insert vehicle name here> to go with the <insert chopper name here> I can't wait for <insert mod name here> vehicle!"

But I also see a few points that I don't quite understand...

Like this

Quote[/b] ]3) Understanding of the game engine. Not knowing what the limits are, and where to draw the line with suggesting xxx feature and yyy function. Things like multi-gunners on vehicles… c’mon guys… If it was possible, we’d have done it already! Use some common sense on these things.

Heh, yes even I as a simple player got tired of people coming into the BAS IRC channel (back in the day when I used to visit there) requesting certain things that cannot be done over, and over. Some even saying "I can do that, I have the opened game engine here" But you can't expect everyone to know the game limitations, many people I know have been drawn to the game fairly recently by seeing the work of BAS, S&E, FDMOD, CSLA mod and all the other excellent mod teams/addon teams and makers. But still a very valid point, if it was possible it would have been done. Some new to the game, or veterans ignorant to the game engine limitations might overlook this however.

But, I have to commend you for a very good post Deadmeat. It has been needed for quite some time. And I want all addonmakers, missionmakers and islandmakers to know that I respect your work and I wish you nothing but a long and prosperous life. Thank you all oh so very much!

EDIT: @Tankieboy, didn't he just mention addonmakers having a life too? That being the reason he is frustrated that such little respect is given? As they give up those things to actually produce the addons for the addon hungry masses.

[OutbreakeR 0]

woot

[Guest jacobaby]

I say firstly get some sleep before you post, grow up, be the bigger man and rise above it.

Oh and if you walk around in a huff all day because some 12 year old slagged off your addon for a computer game that you live within then I also say turn off the computer go to the pub talk to females and get a life.

Its a game. Get over it.

Gonna remind you about this post when all the shit comes YOUR way when you finally release some stuff.

TJ

[Supah 0]

I say firstly get some sleep before you post, grow up, be the bigger man and rise above it.

Oh and if you walk around in a huff all day because some 12 year old slagged off your addon for a computer game that you live within then I also say turn off the computer go to the pub talk to females and get a life.

Its a game. Get over it.

Nicely illustrating the point DM was making Tell me, what was it you do in UKforces tankieboy?

[cassandra 0]

I think tankie boy was too excited about being the 2nd to reply post to take notice

by the way, what would going to a pub and talking to females do? is that where you get the latest vd? you're so mean!

[theavonlady 2]

All your points are right and I know the feeling but I think it's irrelevant. The best way to handle whiners and grouches is by simply ignoring them.

You take up more space on a good addons thread by replying to them and famming the flames than would be taken up by letting them spew their trivialities and then moving on. They want our attention and you'll wind up giving it to them.

That's always been my suggestion. Lord knows how many times I've told that to Tigershark.

So, DM, you didn't start this thread for nothing. What's BAS releasing any moment now?

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]3) Understanding of the game engine. Not knowing what the limits are, and where to draw the line with suggesting xxx feature and yyy function. Things like multi-gunners on vehicles… c’mon guys… If it was possible, we’d have done it already! Use some common sense on these things.

I see this way too often. Let's say it one more time: <span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>YOU CANNOT PUT MULTIPLE GUNPOINTS ON A LAND VEHICLE!</span> Thank you .

Quote[/b] ]Tell me, what was it you do in UKforces tankieboy?

   

[GoOB 0]

Oh, what was that about "Rant over, feel free to post your thoughts on this, PLEASE keep it civil I want a good discussion, not a flame war"? Please, share your views! I want to know how all the addonmakers and all the addon-consumers feel too!

EDIT: Edited for silly comments and a few less silly ones.

[MEDICUS 0]

I say firstly get some sleep before you post, grow up, be the bigger man and rise above it.

Hmmm, i cannot consent to this!

This guys, like DMX, the FDF-Team and so on, spent so incredible much time in creating such excellent and amazing addons and mods. And they do this for FREE! They just sacrifice their free time for us, the community.

So i think at least we (the community) couldn't be grateful enough for that.

The point is, that this new addons and mods keep OFP alive. Without them, OFP would have been died "a long" time ago".

It will no one hurt to honor their work. That's my opinion!

Mfg MEDICUS

[dm 9]

Thanks for the support Goob and Post.

@Tankie - thats my point exactly.

Its a GAME, so why should we put up with what we get from some members of the community? Why SHOULD we be slated by some ignorant 12 year old who couldn't care less? Why SHOULD we have to answer countless posts, from people who have probably never even seen some of the equipment in real life, let alone used it, about how x part is wrong, and y part needs fixing?

Because its a GAME, we do it for fun. But there are certain elements of the comunity which tend to spoil this fun for the addon makers. Much like the cheaters do when they ruin a game on an MP server. You ban the cheaters, but what about the whingers?

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]So, DM, you didn't start this thread for nothing. What's BAS releasing any moment now?

The Whiner-Whacker 5000 .

[theavonlady 2]

I say firstly get some sleep before you post, grow up, be the bigger man and rise above it.

Oh and if you walk around in a huff all day because some 12 year old slagged off your addon for a computer game that you live within then I also say turn off the computer go to the pub talk to females and get a life.

Its a game. Get over it.

Gonna remind you about this post when all the **** comes YOUR way when you finally release some stuff.

I generally agree with Tankieboy on this, though I rephrased it.

Indeed I expect him to follow his own philosophy when the times comes.

Nice bull session we're having here today.

[Poet 0]

IBTL.

Bit of a sweeping statement?

I think this is a great community compared with some others ( BF42? ugh! C.S? OMFG! ), not fair to say the whole community sux.

Yeah we have some spoilt kids and whiners, but this is planet earth after all ... and no, I dont like it either sometimes.

But deep in your heartYou Know, that for the most part, the OFP community ROCKS! otherwise you wouldn't be here, right?

[CanadianTerror 0]

I certainly dont disagree with respect being shown to addon makers at all...as well as praise/critisism where it's deserved.

But, a good hunk of the crap in the community comes from kids. Common, be honest.

I always seem to look at it from the user end though. A lot of people DO NOT know how to make addons and what you see is that frustration come out in their posts(some a little more childish than others) I also see a lot of ego come from people who can make addons and that appears in threads as well.

Find me a community that doesnt have any of this to some degree and I'd be shocked.

[tankieboy 0]

Ok my post was in haste.

I am 30 and an ex British soldier. I advise PUKF on addons. I dont make addons myself as I dont have the time and probably the skill. Though I admit I have not tryed.

Yes if it wasnt for you chaps making addons then no doubt Flashpoint wold have been of my system ages ago. I thank you all for that.

Just rise above the stupid comments. However you should expect it as a community no matter where have all walks of life in many ages and experiances and points to get accross.

Keep doing what you are doing and ignore the kids.

[GoOB 0]

Nice bull session we're having here today.

Group therapy, the key to happiness I tell you. Dr Phil and Oprah would have been so proud. And it is really good thoughts can surface so that people can understand what the person on the other line is feeling. Sometimes it is not all too apparent that there is someone behind all the text when communicating via the internet.

[edc 0]

I would kinda agree w/ Avon, and somewhat with tankieboy, just ignore it. There's no point whining about people who whine about your addons, if anything your posts complaining about there's whining, will just make them happy that they've succeeded in angering you.

[theavonlady 2]

Its a GAME, so why should we put up with what we get from some members of the community?

Because it's just a game.

Quote[/b] ]Why SHOULD we be slated by some ignorant 12 year old who couldn't care less?

Because he's 12 years old.

Quote[/b] ]Why SHOULD we have to answer countless posts, from people who have probably never even seen some of the equipment in real life, let alone used it, about how x part is wrong, and y part needs fixing?

Sometimes, such posts are legit, when looked at from a historical perspective or simply out of the ignorance of the poster. When it's gone on long enough, just state "that's our final say in this point" and move on.

Quote[/b] ]Because its a GAME, we do it for fun. But there are certain elements of the comunity which tend to spoil this fun for the addon makers.

Do you really think there is a single BAS addon that's not appreciated by the vast majority of the community? If you know that they are, then you should know that all the 12 year olds who cluttered up BAS threads in the past didn't put a dent in your reputation. And that's the bottom line that counts!

Quote[/b] ]Much like the cheaters do when they ruin a game on an MP server. You ban the cheaters, but what about the whingers?

No comparison. A cheater filled game is lost forever. A BAS addon is a permanent fixture of everyone's hard drive.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Keep doing what you are doing and ignore the kids.

But that's not fun! It's so much more entertaining to tie them up and drop them off at the Neverland Ranch .

[Ironsight 1]

I say firstly get some sleep before you post, grow up, be the bigger man and rise above it.

Oh and if you walk around in a huff all day because some 12 year old slagged off your addon for a computer game that you live within then I also say turn off the computer go to the pub talk to females and get a life.

Its a game. Get over it.

I couldn't agree more it's a game not a religion!

And there should be less slagging off Most addon-makers put a lot off time in addons and are willing to share it with the community.

SO RESPECT THE ADDON-MAKERS

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Keep doing what you are doing and ignore the kids.

But that's not fun! It's so much more entertaining to tie them up and drop them off at the Neverland Ranch     .

Closed until further notice.

[GoOB 0]

I would kinda agree w/ Avon, and somewhat with tankieboy, just ignore it.  There's no point whining about people who whine about your addons, if anything your posts complaining about there's whining, will just make them happy that they've succeeded in angering you.

Letting your feelings out is good, wich it is in this case. Whining and telling people about what they do to frustrate you there is a difference. Personally I see DM's post as a very valid one. And sometimes it is a right old ***** to ignore the same comments coming again and again in your direction. Not that these comments are hurtful per sé it is just that you might get a feeling that your work is wasted on bastards that can't see what you are giving up to give them what they want. I agree, try to ignore them but also let your feelings out and tell them what they are doing wrong. That's the only way for people to improve.